What Bothers Me About Pro-Twilicorns

[I am Lunar Fire 198]

I am currently basing my opinion of Twilight on a few little things:

1. It was meant since the beginning of the show that Twilight would have wings.

2. Tara said she is doing the same old Twilight and that she is staying with her friends. The only change we have seen so far is her looks.
   2.5. Therefore, people who are leaving the fandom because of Alicorn Twilight are doing it because of how she looks.

3. I have so much awesome ideas of what can be done with Princess Twilight and I expect the writers to have similar ideas. Or even better ideas.

4. Twilight with wings look fabulous. Especially this pose she did when she appeared with her wings wide spread. I was in awe when I saw that.

[DreamingOfParadise 5]

I think Twilicorn is okay. I mean, they didn't have to change her appearance or anything. They did her really badly, with her being able to fly immediately after gaining wings. She reminds me of Twilight's Bella.

[Shanks 10,817]

I have made no secret of the fact that I do not like the alicorn Twilight idea mainly because I feel it is a bit too soon and that they really screwed up the introduction of it in the season 3 finale by making the whole episode just seem like it was filling space until the coronation. And while the opposing side does make some good points mainly that it is unlikely that Twilight will leave her friends behind, there is still plenty we don't know about the situation so it can still work and if done right can present some great storytelling and plot development opportunities I too have grown a little tired of the "stop complaining" arguments.

 

Yes some twilicorn critics have over reacted I am not going to deny that, but like it or not we do have some legitimate concerns about this and it is only by voicing those concerns that we can hopefully make it less likely that this goes badly. There are multiple hints throughout the season 3 finale the most obvious of which being Twilight saying "everything will be fine" at the end that the writers do in fact know that many fans are a bit worried. I haven't told supporters to stop gloating although I could do that it really dosen't do any good and just creates more tension and division. You don't agree with us and that is fine, but "stop complaining" is a middle finger not an intelligent coherent argument.

[Codex 34]

I'm honestly neutral on the subject. I like Twilight, no matter what, so as long as she stays Twilight, I'm happy. Alicorn or not, spike-maned, eyepatched, scarred post-apoc Twilight, heck, magic cyborg Twilight.

 

Which is a strange point of view considering I created a ten-hour-long (to write) essay to explain why exactly she became an Alicorn, but I'm weird like that.

[Ice Storm 1,020]

I do can tolerate or even accept anyone's opinion, but it has to be based upon something and backed up with some sort of insight as to why. If someone says "I think that everyone should roll around in the mud for 15 minutes a day," I would ask "why?" If they just said "because..." then I can't see their opinion as valid. If the did, however, give a reason as to why they think that way, I can tolerate their opinion and possibly even agree with it.

 

This has been my complaint about many of the non-twilicorn supporters.

 

Over the course of this entire explosion of Twilicorn hate, love, and indifference, I have posted several, multi-paragraph rants, all of which pointing out evidence from the show as to why I've never viewed Twilicorn in a negative manner. I've also expressed my opinion on the fact that a majority of the, Anti-Twilicorns, that do nothing but bash the writers. Being a writer myself, nothing is more disrespectful, or appalling than that. That, and that alone, is what has brought me out to being so vocal against Anti-Twilicorns. The fact that, a majority, are calling everything horrible, and atrocious, and that the writing for everything has been bad.

 

I'm all for people expressing opinions, and yes, I will admit, there were a couple of bad episodes in season 3, mainly the two spike episodes. However, I felt that season three brought, in my opinion, 3 of the best episodes that have been aired yet. Which were Wonderbolt Academy, Sleepless in Ponyville, and the Season Finale. Yes, the Finale has mostly songs, but that's honestly what I liked about it. The season Finale, to me, took the series back to that season one feel where there more episodes that focused on the music to tell the story than a large amount of Dialogue to go with it. Suited for Success, Winter Wrap Up, and Best Night Ever, being similar in style. I'll admit, the Season 3 Finale would have been better if it had been released as a made for tv movie, or if they had been allowed to show all three parts this season. But they didn't and they weren't

 

Like I said, it's not the opinions against Twilicorn that I hate. I can tolerate those. It's the amount of disrespect that I see the writers get that I find unacceptable. I personally don't like the Bioshock game franchise, but you're not going to see me down right disrespect the writers of the game, or say that the entire game franchise sucks just because I didn't like it. This is the same thing with Twilicorn. I don't care if people like it or not, but don't bash, or disrespect the writers in the process.

 

That being said, though, I can understand where you're coming from as well Twiliscael. I would say that the ball is in both players courts, and both sides are equally at fault, though. Both sides honestly need to take two chill-pills and take a deep breath. Cause for all of the Pro-Twilicorn users that there are, who do as you've mentioned, there are just as many Anti's that do the same, and thus the war continues.

[Twiliscael 3,962]

That being said, though, I can understand where you're coming from as well Twiliscael. I would say that the ball is in both players courts, and both sides are equally at fault, though. Both sides honestly need to take two chill-pills and take a deep breath. Cause for all of the Pro-Twilicorn users that there are, who do as you've mentioned, there are just as many Anti's that do the same, and thus the war continues.

Thank the gods, some positive response from someone who doesn't agree with me. Gracias, hombre. 

 

Personally, I don't hate the writers. I have faith that they can do a good job. For me, season 3 was really flat and uncreative, and I could go on for a while as to why but that isn't what we're discussing.

 

We're discussing the attitudes of both people for and against alicorn Twilight. For me, looking back, I generally encouraged anybody who had a distaste for the Twilicorn, even if they didn't have much sound reasoning either. It was a stupid and hypocritical thing to do, and this thread makes me seem like the victim when really, we're all victims. What has happened has happened and there is really nothing we can do about that. All we can do is wait and speculate. This fighting really gets us nowhere, when we could be and should be trying to gain a deeper understanding of everyone else's view. Instead of breaking the fandom into two parts, we should be mending it back together as one by actually listening and supporting the ideas of everyone. 

[Pixel Stick 927]

 

I do can tolerate or even accept anyone's opinion, but it has to be based upon something and backed up with some sort of insight as to why. If someone says "I think that everyone should roll around in the mud for 15 minutes a day," I would ask "why?" If they just said "because..." then I can't see their opinion as valid. If the did, however, give a reason as to why they think that way, I can tolerate their opinion and possibly even agree with it.

 

See, this is why I think you're seeing people as intolerant of you, and why people are accusing you of being intolerant of their opinions as well.  People do NOT need to justify their opinions in order for their opinions to be valid.  If someone likes rolling around in the mud, they don't have to have a reason why.  "Because" is (usually) shorthand for "Because I like it" - in your example, it could very easily be extended to "Because I think it's fun and I think everyone should try it."  No more harmful than "Come on in, the water's fine!" in my book.

 

Also, to your original question: You posted your opinion on an Internet forum.  By doing so, you automatically invite discussion, debate and ask people to express theirs, and debate is all about trying to convince others of your own opinion.  I think you're missing something pretty basic when you then turn around and ask why people are constantly trying to convince you that you shouldn't "hate" this idea.

 

See it from the pro-Twilicorn's point of view: There are those of us who really like this idea, and we just don't get why people are against it.  I don't see that as being any different or less valid than your POV.  And while I personally disagree with your opinion (that Twilicorn is a bad idea), I don't need you to justify your opinion to me - it's valid, it's tolerable, and so long as you're here talking about it, I see no harm in debating it with you.

[Wubsie 1,123]

Geez you guys are acting like this is some war or something.

Just agree to disagree and move on, it's just a show...about technicolored ponies.

[Shanks 10,817]

Like I said, it's not the opinions against Twilicorn that I hate. I can tolerate those. It's the amount of disrespect that I see the writers get that I find unacceptable.

I am against twilicorn and have said on many occasions that the season 3 finale is the worst episode of the entire series but I do agree that the writers should not be bashed for it. It was not their idea to do this it was Hasbro's idea and they made the writers throw it in at the last minute and did not give them nearly enough time to properly flesh it out making the episode extremely rushed and giving it the feeling like it is only there to fill up space for alicorn Twilight instead of building up to it.

 

That is not to say they wouldn't have done it eventually but it probably would have been a bit later in the series and would have had a lot more buildup to it. I seriously don't envy the position the writers are in on one side they have Hasbro micro managing so they can sell Alicorn Twilight toys and on the other they have a lot of bronies many of whom like Twilight as a character concerned about a change many of them feel is too soon and puts her dangerously close to Mary Sue territory. Despite my misgivings though even I admit that this could still work out and hope it does, I may not trust Hasbro but I do trust the writers and have full faith that everything will be fine so long as Hasbro lets them do their jobs.

[Codex 34]

I'm sorry, I posted my opinion, but neglected to address the original question.

 

I'm not anti-AliTwi, so I suppose that puts me in the Pro camp. For myself, I don't have any particular antipathy for Antis. You have an opinion, that's natural. Whatever your reasons, you have them, and you are more than welcome to them. However, I do have a problem with the haters. There is a difference, and it's a difference of degree. In this case, the vehemence (and repetition) of the haters gets to me. If you state that you dislike the change, that's one thing. I note it and move on. If you feel so strongly that it's "teh wurst thing EVAR!!!!" that you have to post it in 10+ threads, whether those threads are pro-, anti-, or neutral, then I'd request you just sig it and move on. Note: I am not blaming you or anyone in particular of either poor grammar or thread spamming. But I have seen it, here and elsewhere, on this topic and others.

 

Also, there's no reasoning with a blind hater. When someone states it's the "worst thing ever" with no reasoning or backing, it's a stone dropped in the conversation. What do you say? "I disagree" and then move on? What does a hater want me to say at that point? Just agree? I don't feel I have enough to go on at this point to agree or disagree if this one change has broken the show.

 

Now, if you have a basis for your beliefs, that's a beginning for a dialogue. If it's because you didn't understand what happened in the finale, I can point you at http://mlpforums.com/topic/51121-alicorn-apotheosis-an-ascension-analysis/ for my personal analysis. If it's because you fear what may come, or based on a past disappointment, all I really can say is "wait and see." For most any other reason, we can at least have a back-and-forth where we can, if not agree, at least understand the other's opinion.

 

I would be remiss if I didn't say I have a similar reaction to AliTwi fanboys. I can't really tell you anything about whether it's "teh bessst ting EVAR!!!one" without seeing what happens in Season 4. I like to believe the writers will make good things happen, possibly even better things than came before. Or maybe it'll all come apart. Nothing lasts forever; not even Law and Order. Without a basis for conversation, though, there really is nothing to say. Regardless of what you're saying.

[Yes-Man 597]

What are you talking about? It's completely the other way around, at least on this site.

 

Although I'm still rather fond of you, it seems yore trying to make yourself look like some deprived hero.

[hawkflame 3,315]

I have made no secret of the fact that I do not like the alicorn Twilight idea mainly because I feel it is a bit too soon and that they really screwed up the introduction of it in the season 3 finale by making the whole episode just seem like it was filling space until the coronation. And while the opposing side does make some good points mainly that it is unlikely that Twilight will leave her friends behind, there is still plenty we don't know about the situation so it can still work and if done right can present some great storytelling and plot development opportunities I too have grown a little tired of the "stop complaining" arguments.

 

Same here.  I see something of a dismissive attitude on the part of some in favor of Twilicorn because they feel our fears or concerns are invalid.  And I'm not talking about the whole "Twilight will leave her friends!" argument which I think is bull.  I'm talking more along the lines of the challenges faced by the writers with this development and avoiding making this a jump-the-shark moment.  I mean, how do you write past a series' intended end point (or what seems like it)? 

 

You know, what might go a long way towards sealing this rift in the community is both sides trying to see things from the other's perspective and try to understand or even acknowledge the validity of their opinion.

 

I, as someone who is against the idea of Twilicorn, don't think this is doomed to failure, myself.  I just think taht there are potential problems that I hope the writers can make their way around. 

[FruitRiver 355]

Because there's no point. None of us know what will happen in season 4. How do you know Twilight will change at all? If your going to hard twilicorn, atleast do it when we know more about her. Are you going to hate a character because she got wings?

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

What are you talking about? It's completely the other way around, at least on this site.

 

Although I'm still rather fond of you, it seems yore trying to make yourself look like some deprived hero.

Really?

 

Most anti-Twilicorn threads I see are simply "Why I dislike ______" .....now I won't lie, there's the occasional thread were someone becomes and intolerant prick, bashes out other's opinions, but same goes for the Pro-Twilicorns, in fact I see more people trying to calm others down by saying things like "Trust the Writers, it'll get better next season" and while it's not always a bad thing, it tends to be annoying. BUT NOT EVEN THAT, INSTEAD I see "IF YOU DON'T LIKE TWILICORN YOU'RE NOT EVEN A REAL BRONY" what's that? Are we some sort of High Class, Pure blooded, cult in where we all have to follow the same opinion in order to be accepted? Is that what became of this great fandom, which was raised by the word of "Love and Tolerance"? Cause, I've been here for 2 years, what I'm seeing isn't surprising me, what is surprising me is how one little episode, which I didn't even hate, is tearing the community apart  I'm sorry but we can't just "ignore" this and "move along" this is something that requires the community as a whole to fix it.

 

I prefer to hear other's opinions before completely announcing my own, I was always telling other's to trust the writers, and I still do, however, I've lost some sort of hope after the finale, I find it understandable though, it was rushed, then again, it's only the beginning of the three parter, I've spent time away from the community to think, and there are changes, between the seasons, and I can see them, others can too, and some agree with me on this. Change isn't always bad, I know, but that doesn't make it always good. I rarely see someone who thnks differently, yet is still respectful of my opinion. So all in all, what we really need to do is be accepting of other's opinions, if not praise and follow them, at least be able to tolerate them.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Francis Sparkle

[Zennistrad 33]

Most of the "pro-twilicorns" you describe here are mainly just reacting to the very loud, very, very obnoxious whining of a vocal minority of the "anti-twilicorns."

 

The same thing's been happening with the Transformers fandom for years now. Every time a change is made to the franchise, there are a few who will quickly shout "RUINED FOREVER!" simply because the status quo changes.

 

I'm not saying that everyone who opposes this change is like this, and most of them probably aren't, but to the perception of the average forum-goer, many of the complaints about twilicorn sound like this.

[Shanks 10,817]

How do you know Twilight will change at all?

Because Twilight becoming an alicorn is far more profound than simply slapping a pair of wings on her an giving her a fancy title. Even if they do this right which I really hope they do Twilight will in fact change perhaps not to where she becomes unrecognizable as a character but she will change. How she will change and how quickly is something neither side knows for sure but she will not be the first character who has changed. Rainbow Dash has in my opinion changed the most of any mane 6 character as she has matured significantly and has showed a bit more of her softer side while still maintaining many of the traits which her fans love about her. If all goes well the same could be true for Twilight.

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

I am currently basing my opinion of Twilight on a few little things:

 

1. It was meant since the beginning of the show that Twilight would have wings.

2. Tara said she is doing the same old Twilight and that she is staying with her friends. The only change we have seen so far is her looks.

   2.5. Therefore, people who are leaving the fandom because of Alicorn Twilight are doing it because of how she looks.

3. I have so much awesome ideas of what can be done with Princess Twilight and I expect the writers to have similar ideas. Or even better ideas.

4. Twilight with wings look fabulous. Especially this pose she did when she appeared with her wings wide spread. I was in awe when I saw that.

 

- Not really. Lauren Faust, the one who made all the characters, world, everything, never said she'd be an Alicorn, she said she'd be a powerful Unicorn, who'd eventually replace Celestia.

 

-Yeah, learning to not judge others by the way they look, but it'll be horrible if they simply try to ignore the elephant on the room, and pretend everything is completely normal.

-Some of my friends left because of the performance of the Season, and I'll be honest, I don't judge them. If anything I respect how they simply left, and didn't make too big of a problem with it.

 

-Yea, so far they've opened many possibilities, unleashed several ideas for bronies and the writers alike, but keep in mind this also limits potential to great episodes, just like there's many Alicorn episodes, there could of been more normal Twilight episodes.

 

-An opinion, I'll leave it at that, although the wing design looks a bit odd for me xD

[Twiliscael 3,962]

Because there's no point. None of us know what will happen in season 4. How do you know Twilight will change at all? If your going to hard twilicorn, atleast do it when we know more about her. Are you going to hate a character because she got wings?

Actually, no. Celestia said herself that Twilight won't be the same old pony she was before, when they were in the pony-matrix.

[Pixel Stick 927]

Actually, no. Celestia said herself that Twilight won't be the same old pony she was before, when they were in the pony-matrix.

 

Celestia said that she (and Luna and Cadance) would be learning from her now as well.  There are two things to point out here:

 

(1) This means that Twilight has reached a point beyond which her knowledge will exceed Celestia's.  This doesn't necessarily mean Celestia doesn't still have things to teach Twilight, but that Twilight will also be stepping outside the realm of Celestia's knowledge and experience.

 

(2) Just because someone graduates doesn't mean they stop learning, nor does it mean their personality has to fundamentally change.  Twilight's new status and position gives her a CHOICE as to whether she changes in a way that affects her friendships, but there's no reason why it needs to automatically change with her ascension.

 

How does this relate to the original topic?  The reason I keep pointing these things out is because I see the "anti-Twilicorn" folks as very often treating this as an all-or-nothing deal.  They post as though the mere fact that Twilight achieved a goal means she has absolutely no more room for growth, and I really think that's wrong... and quite revealing of the way these people think in general, to be honest.

[Veronica The Miffvixen 232]

Allow me to drop some mad mathematics on you guys.

 

You see, complaining forms a fractal due to the effect of the Lorenz model of the Butterfly Effect, where human psychology is driven to constantly address each new facet of complaint in the form of complaint. That is, people complain, people complain about the complainers, people complain about the people complaining about the complainers, et cetera. The following graph sums it up best:

 

[Pixel Stick 927]

-Yea, so far they've opened many possibilities, unleashed several ideas for bronies and the writers alike, but keep in mind this also limits potential to great episodes, just like there's many Alicorn episodes, there could of been more normal Twilight episodes.

 

So Twilight being an alicorn obviously means the great episodes will be more limited than if Twilight were NOT an alicorn?  I don't buy that at all.

Allow me to drop some mad mathematics on you guys.

 

You see, complaining forms a fractal due to the effect of the Lorenz model of the Butterfly Effect, where human psychology is driven to constantly address each new facet of complaint in the form of complaint. That is, people complain, people complain about the complainers, people complain about the people complaining about the complainers, et cetera. The following graph sums it up best:

 

Quick!  Let's start complaining about Veronica and her graph!  We'll bring about the Complaintalypse even more quickly!

 

(Seriously, though, that's a good analogy.  I've seen a number of communities almost literally go up in flames because of that.)

[Veronica The Miffvixen 232]

So Twilight being an alicorn obviously means the great episodes will be more limited than if Twilight were NOT an alicorn?  I don't buy that at all.

 

 

Quick!  Let's start complaining about Veronica and her graph!  We'll bring about the Complaintalypse even more quickly!

 

(Seriously, though, that's a good analogy.  I've seen a number of communities almost literally go up in flames because of that.)

A little known historical fact is that Cherynobl's meltdown occured due to workers complaining about their shift lengths.

[PoniesPlease 365]

As most of you are probably aware, I do not agree with the Twilicorn one bit. I've stated this several times before, and I am again now. I've tried to stop my "whining" but I've come across something that I've felt ever since it aired about those who support the idea.

 

Every time I express my distaste about the alicorn situation, I get told to calm down and to stop analyzing it so much and that I need to respect the writers' decisions and such. Why, might I ask? Why is it that I have to agree with what is going on? Because YOU are? No, I don't. If you're going to look down upon me for having an opinion differing yours, then I should look down upon you. Within a fanbase that prides itself on respect and tolerance, I expect more. If you're going to tell me that "everything's going to be okay" and that "it's no big deal" then I should be able to say that it really isn't. Why is it that pro-Twilicorns are able to express their opinions without judgement meanwhile anti-Twilicorns get ridiculed among other things? Is it because of the majority of bronies being pro-Twilicorns? I don't know. Am I just not allowed to have an opinion because it differs from the majority? That's what it feels like.

At least they're only telling you to calm down. But to me, making a thread like this is kind of asking for abuse. Twilicorn isn't for everyone, but what is? It was hinted at since the beginning, maybe just bide your time and wait to see how it all develops. 

 

After all, Twilicorn has only been on our screens for three minutes.

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

So Twilight being an alicorn obviously means the great episodes will be more limited than if Twilight were NOT an alicorn?  I don't buy that at all.

Ehh...

 

No.

 

I said "Keep in mind that it ALSO limits POTENTIAL......" .....just as it gives it takes, I'm not saying all the great episodes'll be gone, but there's a same amount of probability that it might happen.

 

Now, when I read over your post, I imagine you see me as: "NUH UH, THEY RUINED MANY GOOD IDEAS NOW, AND NOW THEY'LL NEVER HAPPEN" which I am not saying, they've limited some potential  but there's still a chance that it'll happen, it's not too complicated really. They'll give us some good episodes, some we'll never see to be discussed.

 

Remember, we got no control over the show, and anything can happen really.

 

I'm not trying to make you believe what I say, you don't have to believe me, if you may. One's perspective over what my happen may be different than another's.

[PoniesPlease 365]

You people seem to be forgetting some things too. 

 

Sisterhooves Social is one of my favourite episodes. Twilight wasn't in that episode at all. See where I'm going? Twilicorn is a change to a character, in a show where the fans idolize every character and give them their own back-story. Just because one character got wings, doesn't mean that the rest of the Mane 6 will suddenly disappear from the face of Equestria. 

 

Keep Calm and Brony On is all I can say to you all, whether you dislike Twilicorn or not.