Is Shining Armor a Marty Stu?

[Nohbdy 4,108]

Discussion moved to avoid derailing original thread. Other responses welcome.

Because Shining Armour still have yet to show any flaws. and Powerlevel flaws dont count as this is not an anime. 

If anything Blueblood should become the Slim Shady of Equestria

By definition, a Mary Sue is a self-insert designed for wish-fulfillment, a character that completely breaks the universe it is inserted into. The character becomes the focus of the story, character interactions no longer matter, and all sense of verisimilitude is obliterated. This is a character that outshines other characters in every possible way, and requires absolutely zero assistance in doing anything.

 

Shining Armor, however, hardly fits the bill. He's a nice guy, magically gifted, and a prince. That makes him pretty powerful, right? Sure, but he needed Twilight and her friends to save him on several occasions. His judgment was flawed in that he didn't trust Twilight when he should have, and even if it was because of Chrysalis' control, we see that he was still weak enough to be completely under her power. In the Season 2 finale, he's essentially the damsel in distress. In The Crystal Empire, he doesn't do jack except make a lame attempt to fight Sombra and throw Cadance at the end. I'm not sure how he's a Marty Stu at all.

 

Mary Sue accusations are thrown around so liberally that the term has pretty much lost its meaning. Stop it, guys.

[Shanks 10,816]

No I don't believe that Shining Armor is a Marty Stu or Gary Stu or I prefer to call the male equivalent of a Mary Sue. Yes he can seem a bit perfect and with a character type like him you are going to have some Mary Sue/Gary Stu aspects but having a character with some of those traits and having a character actually be one are two very different things. The reason why we don't see very many character flaws with Shining Armor is because we haven't seen much of him yet except when there is a major crisis, with characters and this even includes the mane 6 their character flaws tend to become more apparent in slice of life episodes than adventure themed episodes.

 

We got to see a bit of Shining Armor the pony in Games Ponies Play and he exhibited a few traits in that episode that I actually like about Big Macintosh who is my favorite stallion in that when you take away his position as guard captain, husband of Princess Candence and his gifts in magic he seems like an ordinary guy and a loving brother. With all that power and responsibility he could easily let it get to his head but so far hasn't forgotten where he has come from and who he is.

[Pripyat Pony 2,608]

What a lot of people seem to not understand is that it is entirely possible to have a character who's good looking, clever, gifted etc and for them not to be a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. What counts as far as a well rounded character is concerned is balance. For example, you could have a character be breathtakingly beautiful but also vain and narrowminded. Or a character as super clever but antisocial and blunt. Shining Armour has a lot of faults; as said by Twilicorn. He's not perfect, and doesn't pretend to be. And the series certainly doesn't revolve around him!

[Zygen 6,066]

Yeah I don't seem shinning armor as a marty stu really. He's actually been pretty powerless and dumb in his appearances kinda

 

The problem is his episode appearances have all been crisis or just not involved him hardly, he hasn't had much time to develop really.

[Leafeon 2,702]

Shining Armour is only ever thrown in because Cadence is, and he has to be if she is.

 

He isn't really. He was about to have a personality in Games that Ponies Play, as mentioned above. Now; if we were talking about Cadence....

Edited March 24, 2013 by Firebolt

[Fhaolan 4,483]

The term Mary Sue/Marty Stu is thrown around *way* too much, and usually incorrectly. People need to read the original Mary Sue story by Paula Smith:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20100111141712/http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dark/1000/marysue.htm

 

And in case anyone's still reading, the story was written as satire. Paula Smith was the editor of The Menagerie, a Star Trek Fanzine (pre-internet) in the 70's, and was fed up with dealing with submissions like the above. So she wrote this dreck as an example of what *not* to do, and to please stop sending her more. There was actually a lot of controversy around it, because later many female writers complained that they could not write any female characters for fear of being accused of Mary Sueing.

 

Now, neither Shining Armour, Cadence, nor Twilight are Mary Sues/Marty Stus. They are not self-inserts, they are not perfect in every way. They regularly fail, make mistakes, and are unable to cope without help.

 

Twilight is the closest of the three to being a Mary Sue, in that 'everyone loves her'. That's pretty much it. The only real Mary Sue characteristic she has.

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,091]

Fhaolan hit the nail on the head. I don't think there's a single character, let alone Shining Armor, that one could label as a Mary Sue/Gary Stu in My Little Pony, because no character fits the bill.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Rainblow Hash

[silvadel 1,393]

Shining Armor had horn cooties, is very easily cowed by his wife, can be seen in a t-shirt with a whistle training athletes for the games.  No he is nowhere near a Gary Stu.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,307]

The term Mary Sue/Marty Stu is thrown around *way* too much, and usually incorrectly. People need to read the original Mary Sue story by Paula Smith:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20100111141712/http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dark/1000/marysue.htm

 

And in case anyone's still reading, the story was written as satire. Paula Smith was the editor of The Menagerie, a Star Trek Fanzine (pre-internet) in the 70's, and was fed up with dealing with submissions like the above. So she wrote this dreck as an example of what *not* to do, and to please stop sending her more. There was actually a lot of controversy around it, because later many female writers complained that they could not write any female characters for fear of being accused of Mary Sueing.

 

Now, neither Shining Armour, Cadence, nor Twilight are Mary Sues/Marty Stus. They are not self-inserts, they are not perfect in every way. They regularly fail, make mistakes, and are unable to cope without help.

 

Twilight is the closest of the three to being a Mary Sue, in that 'everyone loves her'. That's pretty much it. The only real Mary Sue characteristic she has.

Thanks for that link. I've known what Mary Sue meant when it came to fanfics, but I never read the actual origin story. In my own non-pony non-fanfic original stories, I've several times intentionally come close to Mary Sueing (Is that a phrase?) for comic effect. If I create say a genius inventor girl, I usually flaw her. Mainly, I'll make her a nutcase flake, with a lack, or maybe even NO social skills. One of my favorite characters is an albino young woman, with the rather annoying habit of racing her bicycle up and down the halls of the research facility she worked for. (Her eyes are overly sensitive to light, and she avoids going outside for fear of sunburn.) She's a genius, but on some topics comes across as borderline stupid or insane! LOL. Oh, she's also a Brony!  I won't give any more detail than that, because the story is not all ages friendly.

(Is that ever an understatement!)

Edited March 24, 2013 by cuteycindyhoney

[Loona 287]

Pros are displayed, Cons are found.

 

I don't think he's a Gary-Stu. It seems that he can get really attached to ponies, for example when he defended Cadance in A Canterlot Wedding, he went total rage over the sister he loved. This pretty much shows he's really protective, even if it means splitting relationships.

[Magic Man 222]

No, he's not a Marty Stu. He's in no way perfect and does not pretend or made out to be by the show. 

 

But as for the thing about trusting Twilight, sigh, I suppose for the millionth time I'm gonna have to say this; Shining Armor had every right not to believe Twilight, especially when she came bursting in screaming "Evil Evil Evil" hysterically and non-stop with absolutely zero evidence against who he BELIEVED to be the mare he loved and wanted to dedicate his life to.

[Genepool 224]

I don't believe Shining Armor is a Marty Stu or Gary Stu, however you wish to call it.  My only concern would be his sister, and how her character has approached Mary Sue levels because of what transpired where she has shed traits that kept her out of that area.  Personally, I expect Twilight to shed even more of these traits in S4 so Hasbro can pawn off more of the "pretty, pretty Princess Twilight" toys.

 

Getting back to the original topic With Shining Armor, he isn't powerful on his own right.  It took him and Princess Cadence to beat Queen Chrysalis, not to mention he really couldn't do much of anything during the S3 first and second episodes because his horn was damaged/contaminated/whatever.  Also, he isn't revered by every single character in Equestria like Princess Celestia or Princess Luna.  The only reason I can see people questioning him is due to the insane power he has, but it's his special trait, at least from what I understand about ponies since he is "Shining Armor" and utilizes a special forcefield spell that he empowers.  Twilight seemed to merely copy the spell during the episode where the cutie mark crusaders were acting as journalists.  I can't comment on Twilight's abilities right now after going "alicorn" and being turned into a Princess though. 

Edited March 25, 2013 by Genepool

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

I don't think sue, he's too well written when he's around.

 

Across the media board, I've only seen one cannon character I'd call a sue in a TV show, and that's Amanda from Highlander, seriously, read her page on the wiki if you want to see cannon-sue:

 

http://highlander.wikia.com/wiki/Amanda

[Scootalove 10,689]

I wouldn't put Shining Armor in the Marty Stu category.

 

In Games Ponies Play, he acted like a coach for a Track & Field team. His personality is basically based on being a royal guard and protecting the princesses at all times. I know people say he is because, he is married to a Mary Sue known as Cadence. Since, she is an alicorn that is well all-powerful I wouldn't be surprised since people call her a Mary Sue.

Shining Armor, on the other hand is not a Marty Sue (all powerful) besides him knowing a protection barrier spell from A Canterlot Wedding.

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

I never felt as though Shining Armor behaved like a Gary Stu/Marty Stu. Akin to the other characters in the show, he is genuine yet fallible. His defining traits never overshadow the rest of the cast or render their presence meaningless. As I've said before, Shining Armor is basically the Steve Rogers of Equestria: though he may be an valiant hero and outstanding soldier, the audience can readily recognize with him on some very basic levels. There is also good reason why Shining Armor is important, i.e., he is captain of the Canterlot Royal Guard and the acting prince of the Crystal Empire. His sister also happens to be the (former) student of Princess Celestia.

 

Typically a Gary Stu/Mary Su is extremely popular and beloved for no particular reason, despised because the surrounding characters are jealous, or so powerful that he or she is invariably required to save the day---or a combination of all three. Shining Armor never fills any of the telltale criteria. He just appears to be a good guy who married a princess and has a magical prodigy for a sister.

[Tank the tortoise 262]

I personally agree with the above posters that say the term gets thrown around too much.  The defining trait of a Mary Sue is if someone else can do it, she can do it better.  Twilight would be a Mary Sue if she could do everything the others can, but by herself and better in someway.  Same for Cadance.  We have seen time and time again that these characters are flawed.  Heck Shining's INTRO episode put him as being manipulated by the villain.  That doesn't happen to a Mary Sue.  I have yet to see any character that approaches Mary Sue levels despite what some fans seem to believe.

 

Twilight is not a Mary Sue BECAUSE she has to rely on her friends.  Cadance is a princess and an alicorn, but she still has to work with Shining to defeate Chrysalis, she could not have done that on her own.  This means she is not a Mary Sue either.  As for Shining Armor?  Are there people who genuinely belive that he is a Mary Sue?  He has yet to actually do anything amazing on his own.  The only real character traits we have for him is that he loves his sister and his wife, and he is dutiful.  These are not the traits of a Mary Sue.

 

In other notes, I new that Mary Sue came from a Star Trek fan fiction but I was not aware that it was intentionally written that way as farce.  Thanks for the info!  You learn something new every day.  And knowing is half the battle....

[Modphase 1,271]

I somehow get the feeling you've been reading too much of the "Ask High School Cadance" tumblr, where he is portrayed as a Marty Stu. But in the actual show, I think not. Mostly because we don't see him too much in the show. But from his personality it does still seem like he has many positive traits.

[Lux Klonoa 18]

*sigh* Even here I see the "Mary Sue" term being incorrectly used on everypony that people incorrectly label. Ugh...

 

When will you people get it right? As far as I'm aware, no one in the show's three seasons has been shown to be absolutely perfect. Not even Twilight Sparkle.

 

Sometimes, I swear that you're confusing the term to be a synonym for "I don't like/hate this character." It's not and never was, alright? Geez.

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,695]

If you mean Shining Armor is shallow and depicted as having no faults, there may be some truth to that. But he was brought into the series overnight and hasn't appeared a whole lot since then, so we haven't had much time to see the subtleties of his character. It would make a good episode though.

[Clover Heart 978]

Personally, I don't think we've seen enough of Shining Armor to call him a Gary Stu. I mean, he is one of the more prominent secondary characters, at least recently, but we've only seen him in, what, 4 episodes? Two of which he has very minor roles in. For that matter, we've seen Celestia way more than we have Shining Armor, and we've almost never if ever seen her do anything wrong. But nobody calls Celestia a Mary Sue. Again, I think we need to see more of him before we come to that conclusion.