Nightmare Moon and Season 4 [Spoilers]

[Wardaddy 470]

Guys, I've been watching the Comic-Con Season 4 sneak peek over and over, not to mention the countless other threads I've read on here that discuss Nightmare Moon in Season 4, and yet there's no new ideas that come to mind. I'm not prepared to accept the idea that Twilight has travelled back in time just yet, and therefore I've decided to turn to you guys, in hopes you might be able to come up with some solid theories which would explain NMM's return in Season 4. Please guys, I'm plumb out of ideas, and I need something to dwell on.

[Sylvester 350]

Well, I thought (as you might have) When twilight's element of harmony travelled through the mirror the connection between the elements were severed and her reformation was slowly undone.

At first she didn't notice but the same feelings were starting to arise in her head and she slowly grew more, well, evil.

Maybe they need to find a way to reconnect the elements...

I dunno, good luck!!

More pondering...

Edited September 11, 2013 by Silverstar

[Wardaddy 470]

Well, I thought (as you might have) When twilight's element of harmony travelled through the mirror the connection between the elements were severed and her reformation was slowly undone.

At first she didn't notice but the same feelings were starting to arise in her head and she slowly grew more, well, evil.

Maybe they need to find a way to reconnect the elements...

I dunno, good luck!!

More pondering...

If you mean the mirror portal in EG, remember that the events of EG were considered non-canon, so effectively your theory is (No offence) null and void. *tears up paper sheet*

[Nature's Spell 526]

Just based upon Luna's words the strong implication is that Twilight "Quantum Leaped" into Celestia's body. Luna was acting like she was talking to Celestia and Twilight didn't seem to know where she was at first. We need to wait because we have too little to go on and will likely be wrong.

[Obsolete 681]

I'm also rather bothered by the time travel idea, or the suggestion that Celestia is giving Twilight a peek into her memories as part of a test. I'm sure that will end up being the case, but wouldn't it make more sense to administer such a test before giving Twilight princess status? 

 

There's another theory going around that Nightmare Moon was never really gone. She's just been biding her time, waiting for the opportune moment to make her comeback. I think this is more a case of fandom overanalysis, however.

[Nature's Spell 526]

I'm also rather bothered by the time travel idea, or the suggestion that Celestia is giving Twilight a peek into her memories as part of a test. I'm sure that will end up being the case, but wouldn't it make more sense to administer such a test before giving Twilight princess status?

 

There's another theory going around that Nightmare Moon was never really gone. She's just been biding her time, waiting for the opportune moment to make her comeback. I think this is more a case of fandom overanalysis, however.

We assume that Celestia was involved with what happened to Twilight, but it is possible some outside event sent Twilight into the past or even her own actions. I'd rather it be a flashback because I like Luna as Luna. Forced conflict is bad conflict.

[Obsolete 681]

 

 

I'd rather it be a flashback because I like Luna as Luna. Forced conflict is bad conflict.

 

There is a lengthy youtube review by Antony C (I believe it's titled Reviewing Is Magic - A Canterlot Wedding) that explains the theory. Not only does it sound plausible, it's actually pretty compelling. Give it a look if you haven't seen it.  

[Scootalove 10,684]

As long as we don't get forced combat then, I think Nightmare Moon comes in the form of a flashback. So, I think her return relates to a flashback in the past.

[Wardaddy 470]

As long as we don't get forced combat then, I think Nightmare Moon comes in the form of a flashback. So, I think her return relates to a flashback in the past.

See now, this is exactly the sort of thing I don't want to hear. Surely there must be some way for NMM to return. Mayhaps somepony else convinced/tricked Luna to do it?! Perhaps Luna got jealous?! I'll take anything! Just give me a bone to chew on, for Celestia's sake!

[Scootalove 10,684]

See now, this is exactly the sort of thing I don't want to hear. Surely there must be some way for NMM to return. Mayhaps somepony else convinced/tricked Luna to do it?! Perhaps Luna got jealous?! I'll take anything! Just give me a bone to chew on, for Celestia's sake!

Well that's the reason why Luna transformed into Nightmare Moon in the first place, jealousy and hatred. I do see someone tricking Luna into doing it though.

[Kulstor 254]

From what I recall it sounded like Luna was speaking to Celestia so it sounds like maybe Twilight got sent into a flashback where she is living things instead of Celestia, or some sort of switching times.  Twilight seems bewildered, not knowing where she was.  Had to go to look up the clip.  It's hard for me to understand some of what Luna is saying since the music is a bit to loud in spots. 

 

I think she says something about "did you really expect me to sit idly by while they basked in your precious light"  sounds like she thinks she is talking to Princess Celestia, and the damage that seems to happen to a bit of the building they are in could be the castle we saw in the pilot episodes of season 1, but Twilight appeared before the damage happened.  Maybe Twilight does a spell or something and she is either unknowingly experiencing things that Celestia did, or switches places with her time wise.  Besides I don't think she'd refer to Twilight's precious light, that wouldn't make sense, and her commenting there can be only 1 princess in Equistria and that princess will be me.  Doesn't take into account there are more then 2 princesses in the modern day show era Equistria. 

[Wardaddy 470]

Well that's the reason why Luna transformed into Nightmare Moon in the first place, jealousy and hatred. I do see someone tricking Luna into doing it though.

As a matter of fact, I thought of a theory concerning King Sombra and Nightmare Moon in another thread on here. Apparently, Sombra was supposedly based off Sauron from Lord of the Rings, and where there is Sauron, there should also be a Saruman, which IMO is where Nightmare Moon comes into play, and it is as follows: 

 

What if Sombra somehow convinced Luna to return to being Nightmare Moon? I'm personally sure NMM wouldn't return without good reason, and while Twilight wasn't wholly responsible for bringing down Sombra the first time, perhaps her ascension meant bad news for Sombra, as it meant with four princesses and the Elements of Harmony taking up the defense of Equestria, he'd have no chance if he attempted to strike back. So he devised a plan to eliminate the kingdom from the inside out, starting with the re-awakening of Nightmare Moon to firstly take out Twilight, before taking out Celestia and Cadance as well, in exchange for Luna ruling Equestria alongside Sombra.

 

Or.....perhaps he was aiming directly for Twilight. Somehow he must've gotten wind of the fact that Twilight was becoming what Starswirl failed; the most powerful alicorn in existence, maybe even more so than Celestia. So to eliminate her, he convinced Luna that Twilight would ascend to the throne before she would, and would even do a better job than she ever could. Luna obviously got jealous, confronted Twilight and became NMM. Again though, the signs outweigh the speculation.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Firebolt Blitz

[Scootalove 10,684]

As a matter of fact, I thought of a theory concerning King Sombra and Nightmare Moon in another thread on here. Apparently, Sombra was supposedly based off Sauron from Lord of the Rings, and where there is Sauron, there should also be a Saruman, which IMO is where Nightmare Moon comes into play, and it is as follows: 

 

What if Sombra somehow convinced Luna to return to being Nightmare Moon? I'm personally sure NMM wouldn't return without good reason, and while Twilight wasn't wholly responsible for bringing down Sombra the first time, perhaps her ascension meant bad news for Sombra, as it meant with four princesses and the Elements of Harmony taking up the defense of Equestria, he'd have no chance if he attempted to strike back. So he devised a plan to eliminate the kingdom from the inside out, starting with the re-awakening of Nightmare Moon to firstly take out Twilight, before taking out Celestia and Cadance as well, in exchange for Luna ruling Equestria alongside Sombra.

 

Or.....perhaps he was aiming directly for Twilight. Somehow he must've gotten wind of the fact that Twilight was becoming what Starswirl failed; the most powerful alicorn in existence, maybe even more so than Celestia. So to eliminate her, he convinced Luna that Twilight would ascend to the throne before she would, and would even do a better job than she ever could. Luna obviously got jealous, confronted Twilight and became NMM. Again though, the signs outweigh the speculation.

I actually do see Starswirl convincing Luna that Twilight would be able to surpass her, and get to the throne before she did. So, your theory is definitely correct.

[Wardaddy 470]

I actually do see Starswirl convincing Luna that Twilight would be able to surpass her, and get to the throne before she did. So, your theory is definitely correct.

Starswirl? I said Sombra. But hey, it would be interesting if Starswirl, the unicorn whom everypony assumed the worst of, started building up to his return by corrupting Luna, because lets all think about it here. Twilight is basically succeeding where he failed, and I don't think he'd be too pleased to have been bested by somepony as amateurish as Twilight, from his opinion anyway. And furthermore, I've gained another idea. If anypony on here has played Bioshock Infinite, then they'll know what I'm going to talk about next. For those who did not, allow me to explain. Maybe either Starswirl or Luna teleported Twilight to the castle moments after she got back home from the coronation ceremony. (the NMM sketch was coded as S4E1, and remember that Meghan McCarthy considered the S3 finale a two-parter, so perhaps this could work out) She was quite confused and bewildered when the scene started, perhaps denoting that her teleportation happened out of the blue, and furthermore it was not her doing. That much does appear to be, but what's clear here is that for this theory to work out, then why did Luna talk to Twilight like she was Celestia? Needs some clearing up there writers!

Edited September 11, 2013 by Firebolt Blitz

[Nature's Spell 526]

The problem with all these theories about Luna: NMM coming back, her being Chrysalis, or having some connection with Sombra or Discord (take your pick) beyond fighting them is that Luna is forced to be the source of all evil simply because she's the Princess of Darkness. Being evil denies all the good she does do and makes her very one dimensional. Celestia is not the source of all goodness, Cadence love or Twilight friendship. The princesses are flawed and yet important and revered. I guess the other implication is that while Luna was in exile no evil i.e. bad guys existed and only upon Luna's return did they come. Maybe it's true. But the show shows time and time again that friendship will always beat evil and how many times must Luna be beat before it becomes silly?

[Scootalove 10,684]

Starswirl? I said Sombra. But hey, it would be interesting if Starswirl, the unicorn whom everypony assumed the worst of, started building up to his return by corrupting Luna, because lets all think about it here. Twilight is basically succeeding where he failed, and I don't think he'd be too pleased to have been bested by somepony as amateurish as Twilight, from his opinion anyway.

My bad, Sombra. For all we know is, that corrupting Luna is the only way to keep Twilight away from the throne. So, again your right.

[Wardaddy 470]

My bad, Sombra. For all we know is, that corrupting Luna is the only way to keep Twilight away from the throne. So, again your right.

Eeyup. Again though, I may as well face it. The signs outweigh the speculation, and that is something that will forever haunt me until November, when Season 4 debuts.

[NavelColt 22,877]

Guys, I've been watching the Comic-Con Season 4 sneak peek over and over, not to mention the countless other threads I've read on here that discuss Nightmare Moon in Season 4, and yet there's no new ideas that come to mind.

 

We don't really need such multiple topics on the same general thing, speaking of which :3 I've merged this topic of yours with your old one, 'Nightmare Moon and Season 4 (spoilers)'. Theories can be included in the discussion of this, as, that's honestly most of what people can do at this point, simply speculate.

[Castle Bleck 19,193]

 

Nightmare Rarity (the comics) reveals herself as the same NMM from the show's pilot, meaning NMM's her own being, not just an extension of negative feelings (she just amplifies and ultimately exploits them in ideal hosts); thus, I'd like to think Luna would be wary of relapsing back into jealousy. That, and she seems content since "Luna Eclipsed" anyway.

 

P.S.- I just imagined NMM exploiting MY insecurities next...with the "Unsolved Mysteries" theme playing in the background. *shudder*

 

[Wardaddy 470]

We don't really need such multiple topics on the same general thing, speaking of which :3 I've merged this topic of yours with your old one, 'Nightmare Moon and Season 4 (spoilers)'. Theories can be included in the discussion of this, as, that's honestly most of what people can do at this point, simply speculate.

Understood, as always. I thought I'd make a thread completely separate from the discussion thread to attract theories on here, but then again, why bother when you're faced with facts that outweigh fiction, or in this case, signs that outweigh speculation? I fear I may even be growing desperate, frantically trying to kid myself that Twi isn't experiencing a flashback. Celestia help me, Im just trying to find meat to put on the table.

[Nature's Spell 526]

One common theme of the show is showing personal growth and overcoming our flaws. If Luna's flaw is jealousy than having it come back again wouldn't make much sense in the context of the show thus far. Even Twilight has been shown to now control her OCD by being aware of it. My other problem is that all the princesses play their own important role and even though Celestia is first among equals (stating it lightly) I think Luna has come to accept her role. But who knows? Oh right the writers do-hopefully!

Edited September 12, 2013 by Nature Spell

[Wardaddy 470]

One common theme of the show is showing personal growth and overcoming our flaws. If Luna's flaw is jealousy than having it come back again wouldn't make much sense in the context of the show thus far. Even Twilight has been shown to now control her OCD by being aware of it. My other problem is that all the princesses play their own important role and even though Celestia is first among equals (stating it lightly) I think Luna as come to accept her role. But who knows? Oh right the writers do-hopefully!

Despite the fact my brain is constantly working to come up with new theories, I have decided to face the facts, rather than trying to kid myself to the very end. In the sneak peek's NMM scene, the setting was obviously the Castle of the Royal Sisters, before its destruction. Twilight was clearly confused: she appeared to have been teleported there, without her coronation ceremony dress, but strangely with her crown. Luna then addresses her as if she were talking to Celestia (The meaning in Luna's words is quite obvious when put to thought; she has had quite enough of sitting by, unnoticed and isolated while Celestia took in all of the love and adoration of her subjects), and when she said "There can be only one princess in Equestria....." in modern day Equestria, there are four princesses, so clearly, as much as I hate to admit it, Twilight is reliving a memory of Celestia's, but what is still not explained is why Celestia, or somepony else would do this, and at such a time as well. The scene was, as aforementioned, coded S4E1, and Meghan McCarthy did say that the finale was a two-parter, so somehow this must be linked to Twilight's ascension. 

 

(Yes everypony, I've chosen to give up any hope of NMM returning. Like y'all said, for NMM to return would totally be going against Luna's character development. At this point, all I've got to hope for is that somepony convinced Luna to turn again, or that Nightmare Moon is becoming a malevolent spirit with the capability to possess anypony with even the smallest hint of negative emotion in their hearts, exploiting it and cultivating it before finally using it to take control of the host. For now though, I reluctantly accept that NMM returning is a forsaken conclusion)

Edited September 12, 2013 by Firebolt Blitz

[Castle Bleck 19,193]

@ Firebolt Blitz -

 

 

According to the comics, NMM's indeed "a malevolent spirit with the capability to possess anypony with even the smallest hint of negative emotion in their hearts"; she's essentially the "Master Xehanort" of FIM (I guess that means Luna = Terra and Rarity = Riku, huh?).

 

 

Come on, I just explained this last night!

[Wardaddy 470]

@ Firebolt Blitz -

 

 

According to the comics, NMM's indeed "a malevolent spirit with the capability to possess anypony with even the smallest hint of negative emotion in their hearts"; she's essentially the "Master Xehanort" of FIM (I guess that means Luna = Terra and Rarity = Riku, huh?).

 

 

Come on, I just explained this last night!

Alright, alright! Don't blow a gasket, it seems I missed that. It's still a frank case though. Everything points to Twilight experiencing a memory of Celestia's, and unfortunately I've got little choice other than to deal with it.

[Castle Bleck 19,193]

@ Firebolt Blitz - Hey, don't take it so seriously; I wasn't "blowing a gasket" or anything like that, just messing with you, that's all.