Does anyone hate misanthropic fan fictions?

[Metemponychosis 1,259]

@, 

Do you believe in free will?

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

Yes, I do. Destiny is a ridiculous concept, there's no predetermined plan. In destroying not just free will but their minds and bodies, Celestia commits genocide on a scale that would make Hitler blush. 7 billion+ people, gone because of the insane desires of a god

[Metemponychosis 1,259]

@,

The problem is that pony brains are different than human brains. It's not their choice: it's just that in turning humans into ponies, so they can survive, their minds are changed. In my head, this is the same as giving a antidepressant to a depressed person.

If anything, Chatoyance is guilty of saying that humans are evil zombies and ponies are happy zombies.

[Bendy 1,821]

@,

The problem is that pony brains are different than human brains. It's not their choice: it's just that in turning humans into ponies, so they can survive, their minds are changed. In my head, this is the same as giving a antidepressant to a depressed person.

If anything, Chatoyance is guilty of saying that humans are evil zombies and ponies are happy zombies.

 

The TCB Ponies are basically the Reapers from Mass Effect.

 

They would not help Humanity, they would destroy it. I do love stories where canon Ponies meet these monster version of themselves.

 

Note: Not all TCB Borg Ponies with a expanding wall of death called the barrier. But a lot do.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Rush

[Wayzer 1,418]

Yes yes yes, finally a thread for this . I hate those stories like conversion bureau where humans are all shit and ponies are perfect. So humans do something wrong, let's systematically extinguish their entire race then by assimilating them into yours. -_-

[Night Shine 767]

Pony superiority doesn't make sense to me

 

Allow me to help you understand.

 

Many, whether consciously or not, believe in the show as an Ideal. That means that we humans took all of the good parts of humanity and shoved it into this fictional universe where it can flourish freely without the truly negative parts. Equestria has all of the good parts about humanity and none of the bad parts. Thus, the universe of Equestria is superior to that of Earth.

 

I don't personally believe this anymore; actually I'm not really sure at this point but if taken into consideration, it simultaneously explains and refutes the arguments of everyone who views Equestria as superior. Of course it's superior if it's an idealized society! If we removed human flaws in order to create the Ideal of Equestria, then of course it has less flaws! Taking this mindset about Equestria does not mean that Earth is notably evil, it simply means that Earth is not perfect.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Night Shine

[Metemponychosis 1,259]

The TCB Ponies are basically the Reapers from Mass Effect.

 

They would not help Humanity, they would destroy it. I do love stories where canon Ponies meet these monster version of themselves.

 

Note: Not all TCB Borg Ponies with a expanding wall of death called the barrier. But a lot do.

I think it's unfair to say that. Different versions of TCB have different mechanics. In some Equestria is forced upon Earth because Celestia decided she wanted to conquer Earth. In others, it's a natural event and the only solution is to be ponified or to die, such as in Chatoyance's stories, like Going Pony and 27 Ounces. The question here is: Chatoyance blames society and the "unforgiving world" itself for people becoming bad people and portrays ponies as being highly empathetic, thus much less likely to intentionally harm others.

 

The reapers in Mass Effect are trying to find a solution to the problem of synthetics killing organics by preserving organics "in reaper form", completely indifferent to the suffering they are causing with the Harvest. They only care about about their mission. And in the end, it's Commander Shepard who makes a final decision. Their motivations are completely different, depending on which version of TCB you are thinking. Also, reapers are insanely more powerful than the races they are harvesting. Which I think (and could be wrong) is rare in TCB stories.

 

Damn... Now I need to find a TCB story with reapers...

[Bendy 1,821]

Allow me to help you understand.

 

Many, whether consciously or not, believe in the show as an Ideal. That means that we humans took all of the good parts of humanity and shoved it into this fictional universe where it can flourish freely without the truly negative parts. Equestria has all of the good parts about humanity and none of the bad parts. Thus, the universe of Equestria is superior to that of Earth.

 

I don't personally believe this anymore; actually I'm not really sure at this point but if taken into consideration, it simultaneously explains and refutes the arguments of everyone who views Equestria as superior. Of course it's superior if it's an idealized society! If we removed human flaws in order to create the Ideal of Equestria, then of course it has less flaws! Taking this mindset about Equestria does not mean that Earth is notably evil, it simply means that Earth is not perfect.

 

Yes, but Equestria is far from perfect.

 

We had Nightmare Moon, that almost wiped out all life on the planet. No sun, everyone freezes to death and dies of starvation. In another universe to the show Nightmare Moon had won.

 

And King Sombra, slavery and all that bad stuff.

 

And random Pony jerk.

 

 

 

 

I think it's unfair to say that. Different versions of TCB have different mechanics. In some Equestria is forced upon Earth because Celestia decided she wanted to conquer Earth. In others, it's a natural event and the only solution is to be ponified or to die, such as in Chatoyance's stories, like Going Pony and 27 Ounces. The question here is: Chatoyance blames society and the "unforgiving world" itself for people becoming bad people and portrays ponies as being highly empathetic, thus much less likely to intentionally harm others.

 

The reapers in Mass Effect are trying to find a solution to the problem of synthetics killing organics by preserving organics "in reaper form", completely indifferent to the suffering they are causing with the Harvest. They only care about about their mission. And in the end, it's Commander Shepard who makes a final decision. Their motivations are completely different, depending on which version of TCB you are thinking. Also, reapers are insanely more powerful than the races they are harvesting. Which I think (and could be wrong) is rare in TCB stories.

 

Damn... Now I need to find a TCB story with reapers...

 

Like the Reapers, many TCB Ponies think they are better than us, so they have right to "save us" by destroying us, from turning into mind controlled slaves, known as Newfoals.

 

If they wanted to help us see this thread: on the Alternative Conversion Bureau: What could the Ponies do if they really wanted to help us?

 

There's always a better alternative then becoming a Pony. Like launching all our nuclear  weapons to leave the Earth a lifelines waste land rather, still better than becoming a dumb Pony zombie. Or maybe the canon like Ponies come to help heal the Earth and help Humanity in another way instead of just turning us into Ponies.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Rush

[hawkflame 3,310]

Essentially. I think I read somewhere that the world isn't getting worse(in fact, it's the opposite in many cases), it's just that the free and unrestrained flow of information the digital age has brought makes it so our face is rubbed in every bad thing that happens.

 

So it's not that more bad things are happening, it's just that the average person knows about a great deal more of those horrible events then they would have back when communication and spreading information was harder.  

 

 

In fact, the truth is, the world is getting far *less* violent:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html

 

We only hear about how shitty the world is because that's what grabs headlines.  Short of something revolutionary like a cure for AIDS, most good dees aren't going to get much press coverage.  Someone giving money to charity or helping the homeless isn't going to grab attention like a murder case would. 

 

Personally, I tend to lean towards the idea that humanity is motivated towards good but is even more motivated towards self interest. But then being motivated by self interest isn't necessarily a bad thing- it's called ambition.   Fortunately much of the time doing good and doing what's best for yourself coincide, and that's what causes advancement. 

[Bendy 1,821]

Damn... Now I need to find a TCB story with reapers...

 

The Conversion Bureau: A Dangerous Precedent

 

The Reapers from Mass Effect meet the TCB Ponies.

 

I actually want to read a story where the Borg TCB Ponies meet The Combine from Half Life and see the irony. 

Edited February 7, 2014 by Rush

[Night Shine 767]

Yes, but Equestria is far from perfect.

 

We had Nightmare Moon, that almost wiped out all life on Earth. No sun, everyone freezes to death and dies of starvation. In another universe to the show Nightmare Moon had won.

 

And King Sombra, slavery and all that bad stuff.

 

And random Pony jerk.

 

 

Perfectly logical point. However, I'm not arguing that this viewpoint is relevant because it is logical, but I am saying that ir is relevant because it is prevalent.

 

I was going to add something about Equestrian impurities being external and human impurities being internal, but you already debunked that by mentioning Sombra. Even if it doesn't work, I'm pretty sure it's the underlying reason for an idealized Equestria.

 

[Hive King 2,001]

No, the ponies can better be compared to Anti-Spiral from Tengen Goppa Gurren Laggan. The ponies are paranoid that every human has the capability for evil, that they feel the need to attempt to exterminate every human, just to be safe

[Malinter 3,064]

I already know humanity can do bad things without having a story with ponies telling me it.

 

Still, like some others have said, I don't think humanity is as bad as the media makes it out to be. People do a lot of good for their fellow humans, but somebody being nice or kind doesn't sell newspapers. 

 

I hate news & newspapers as a result.

[Metemponychosis 1,259]

Like the Reapers, many TCB Ponies think they are better than us, so they have right to "save us" by destroying us, from turning into mind controlled slaves, known as Newfoals.

 

If they wanted to help us see this thread: on the Alternative Conversion Bureau: What could the Ponies do if they really wanted to help us?

 

There's always a better alternative then becoming a Pony. Like launching all our nuclear weapons to leave the Earth a lifelines waste land rather, still better than becoming a dumb Pony zombie. Or maybe the canon like Ponies come to help heal the Earth and help Humanity in another way instead of just turning us into Ponies.

Dude, what is the point of this discussion? It's the writer's prerogative to define the rules of his own story. Like Mass Effect. You can't beat the reapers without the Crucible. Period. If the author says that ponification is the only solution, it is. Period.

 

Granted, it's up to the writer to convince the reader that this the only solution, but it's hopeless if you disagree with this scenario off the bat. Why would you read the story to begin with? Read another story instead of comparing apples with oranges and dictating that one is objectively better.

In the end, the discussion about Earth being better than Equestria should be way off-topic here. People can argue all they want and for every example of how our planet is getting better, another can say that it's worse because of any kind of reasons.

 

It's about a story's scenario: writer says "in my story, the future sucks". The reader must either accept that it does for the development of the story or he is going to waste his time reading something that can't please him. And this is why I don't read Last Man Standing, Cupcakes and Rainbow Factory.

Edited February 7, 2014 by moonlightavenger

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

The problem lies in the fact that this is portrayed as good thing. If they did the exact same thing, but acknowledged that the ponies were insane, it would be fine. Instead, we get stuck with an author who is a bit of an ass-hole.  

[Castle Bleck 19,330]

Yeah but we don't do it in the name of species supremacy.

 

Pony superiority doesn't make sense to me; I am a human who loves the show, Bonnie Zacherle is a human who made the show happen, and mankind domesticated the equine for more than three thousand years. To admire a fictitious utopia created by man then wish death on humanity's part upon experiencing it is extremely hypocritical and silly. I actually told some bronies this on a similar topic on NationStates and they seriously told me that Equestria exists in a alternate universe, zealously sticking to that dumb idea.

 

The fact they weren't trolling is the sad part.

 

Yeah... I bucking wish.

 

In the meantime, my reaction to said bronies:

 

[Metemponychosis 1,259]

@, 

 

But who can say that it's good or bad except the people that would be converted? From the ponies point of view, humans are insane in these stories, broken. I give you all the right to say that you don't like it, but not to say that it is wrong. Even more if there is no other alternative. Even if I didn't think that I would like to live in Equestria, as a pony, I'd still get converted, in that scenario, simply because not doing that means a painful death. You are of course free do disagree with me.

 

We are not talking about the real world. We're talking about a fictional scenario where the rules are determined by the author. If the characters say that they are still themselves, just "cured of the human-ness", and that they feel good by being ponies and that ponies are more empathetic, and thus less inclined to do evil, then that is true inside that story. All that can be said is that it is very debatable wherever ponies are like that or if people would be okay with that. And from that we can debate if any particular story correctly depicts canon ponies and real humans.

 

Let's pretend we are inside one of these stories. Would pick up a weapon and prevent me from going to a conversion clinic and shoot me dead just because you don't like the idea of me becoming a pony and you think that the government gave up too early?

[Hive King 2,001]

@, 

Would I shoot you? No, I wouldn't. I'd do my best to stop you and tell you you're basically killing yourself, but in the end, I won't tie you down. 

 

I do want to mention that I am somewhat biased. Chatoyance is a real ass-hole in the comments sections and insults people constantly. Not to mention she apparently thinks her Ponies are more canon than the show and that hers is the true interpretation

[Castle Bleck 19,330]

@, 

Would I shoot you? No, I wouldn't. I'd do my best to stop you and tell you you're basically killing yourself, but in the end, I won't tie you down. 

 

I do want to mention that I am somewhat biased. Chatoyance is a real ass-hole in the comments sections and insults people constantly. Not to mention she apparently thinks her Ponies are more canon than the show and that hers is the true interpretation

 

Me: Uh... no, Yancey, the show will always be more canon. That's why it's the show, after all.

Edited June 29, 2014 by A.V.

[Metemponychosis 1,259]

@,

You think that I'd be killing myself because I'd stop being human? Or because I'd stop being myself? If the second is true, you kill yourself every time you change your opinion in any given subject, depending on where you draw the line on the subject. That is what the ponification process in her stories do: change the broken human brain, by a functional pony brain. That is why, in her stories, the potions also cure tumors, and whatever disease the person might have. It's almost an allegory for redemption, deliverance. Again: we are talking about stories that assume humans are, in fact, broken because they were forced to live in a world of turmoil that resulted from the destruction of the environment. In it's internal logic, it's the same as giving empathy to a creature that is almost incapable of it.

 

The problem with Chatoyance is that her text does have a misanthropic message and does try to make the ponies way too bi-dimensional and too "good" so the premise of her stories can work (the show itself does that sometimes!), but instead of defending that she had the right to write misanthropic stuff with ponies that get distressed if you talk too loudly to them, she tried to justify it and got angry when people called her on her bullshit.

 

I'm not saying that she is a brilliant writer. All I say is that there are elements in her stories that appeal to me enough that I can see past stuff I dislike. I don't like her overly sensitive ponies, (though it could be said that this is an effect exclusive to the newfoals because of the shock of their transformation, since there are some very assertive ponies in her stories) and the whole misanthropic tone is secondary because I can easily see a bunch of idiots that WOULD shoot me so that I can't become a pony. I also like some of the characters, like Dr. Roselyn Pastern that sometimes is a carbon copy of physicians I got to live with during college. A bunch of good people that tend to get too self-entitled and think they understand their patients while they are downright abusive to them sometimes. Dr. Pastern is as human as can be, she just got developed enough to show it, unlike the dude whose name I don't remember that was some leader in the HLF.

Edited February 7, 2014 by moonlightavenger

[Tigerpop198 696]

I find that most of the time they are extremely stupid. A human writing about how much he/she hates humans, it doesn't make sense.

[Castle Bleck 19,330]

I find that most of the time they are extremely stupid. A human writing about how much he/she hates humans, it doesn't make sense.

 

Maybe he/she feels "betrayed" somehow (And if you don't fit in with your own kind, what makes you think you'll have luck among another?).

 

But when it's just flat-out Anvilicious, then it sucks.

Edited June 29, 2014 by A.V.

[Bendy 1,821]

Dude, what is the point of this discussion? It's the writer's prerogative to define the rules of his own story. Like Mass Effect. You can't beat the reapers without the Crucible. Period. If the author says that ponification is the only solution, it is. Period.

 

But you as the reader have right to criticize the story. And point out it's flaws. Such as all Humans are evil and worship (joking about Hitler) Hitler. Same as all Ponies are good and all Humans are evil. And the genocide is OK, as long it's only done to a Human.

 

I like Pro Human TCB stories, where Humanity wins or something like canon Ponies from the show itself come help Humanity against the Borg TCB Ponies.

 

Or even stories where Humanity loses, turned all into 'perfect' (zombies) Ponies. Only for the Reapers to arrive afterwards to do the same to the Ponies, by turning them into 'perfect' Reapers.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Rush

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

The ponification serum does far more than just change opinions. It makes them lose their own name, hate humanity as a whole, and turns fanatics into sleeping kittens. It is a forcible brain washing that destroys any trace of what the person once was, replacing them with a pony who is somewhat similar, but mostly different.

[Metemponychosis 1,259]

But you as the reader have right to criticize the story. And point out it's flaws. Such as all Humans are evil and worship (joking about Hitler) Hitler. Same as all Ponies are good and all Humans are evil. And the genocide is OK, as long it's only done to a Human.

 

I like Pro Human TCB stories, where Humanity wins or something like canon Ponies from the show itself come help Humanity against the Borg TCB Ponies.

 

Or even stories where Humanity loses, turned all into 'perfect' (zombies) Ponies. Only for the Reapers to arrive afterwards to do the same to the Ponies, by turning them into 'perfect' Reapers.

Ah, there we go. You like. It's not as if these stories are inherently better or the opposite inherently bad. I'm satisfied.

Why do you like these stories rather the ones where "human=evil"? Or is it that you don't like the notion of ponies being somehow superior?