How are Dash and Twilight well developed?

[Whatevs 377]

This is being done extemporaneously. I ask because the only development the two of them have gotten is fairly lackluster in my opinion.

 

Dash is the more developed of the two but aside from: becoming less arrogant (after almost every episode revolved around that flaw), improving relationships with other characters (important but other characters have done it more) and learning to enjoy reading/accept lame pets (which was just a step onto the abolition of arrogance) she's fairly one note and not particularly deep emotionally. Yes she has a lot of very visible development, but it was all just a plodding effort to undo one aspect of her character. It would be almost like saying Fluttershy is well developed after she stops being Shy.

 

Twilight is even worse though. With every episode and conflict from LZ to Princess Twilight being about how afraid she is of failure and not being in control. LZ was about this, It's about Time was about this, Crystal Empire was about this and even Princess Twilight touched on it.

She has not grown at all. Despite her apotheosis.

 

I have more but as I said, this was done extemporaneously and I need some time to prepare the rest of my thoughts.

[Scootalove 10,692]

They are well developed because, even with their flaws they can look past those flaws and they find a way to rise to the occasion. You say that they have not grown at all but, over time a character can develop with the right characterization and not changing who the character is aspired to be.

[Whatevs 377]

They are well developed because, even with their flaws they can look past those flaws and they find a way to rise to the occasion. You say that they have not grown at all but, over time a character can develop with the right characterization and not changing who the character is aspired to be.

I could say that about any character, and yet is the contention here that these are the two most developed.

More importantly, what you're talking about is not development.

[Scootalove 10,692]

I could say that about any character, and yet is the contention here that these are the two most developed.

More importantly, what you're talking about is not development.

It must be the episodes that you've watched. They can't be the only ones developed, if you compare them to the other four. Each of the Mane 6's development is usually split up or divided, to give enough time for them to be developed.

[Whatevs 377]

It must be the episodes that you've watched. They can't be the only ones developed, if you compare them to the other four. Each of the Mane 6's development is usually split up or divided, to give enough time for them to be developed.

yea, you're not listening to me. I'm challenging the assertion that they are more developed than the other four. One of the other four in particular but my ideas on that are not well realized yet. As I said.

[Scootalove 10,692]

yea, you're not listening to me. I'm challenging the assertion that they are more developed than the other four. One of the other four in particular but my ideas on that are not well realized yet. As I said.

Sorry to disappoint you but, sometimes your ideas won't come to light in the show unless it actually happens. If you think they are more developed than the other four, that's your opinion.

[skylights 127]

I'd argue that Twilight and Rainbow Dash are the most developed of the mane 6. Pinkie Pie and Applejack are the same as they've been since the pilot, and Rarity still barely puts her friends ahead of her fashion. Fluttershy has developed a bit more than the rest of the bunch in becoming much more outgoing (compare her today with how she was when Twilight first met her), but even with a bit more maturation they're still all largely the same ponies they've always been.

[Whatevs 377]

Sorry to disappoint you but, sometimes your ideas won't come to light in the show unless it actually happens. If you think they are more developed than the other four, that's your opinion.

As I said, you are not listening.

We're done here.

[Shanks 10,817]

Twilight and Rainbow Dash are well developed because while because they began the series with significant and obvious flaws yet through character development while they still have some flaws have learned from some of their mistakes and matured as characters. Twilight has done this by realizing that while studying and hitting the books are both good things that balance is important in life and "all work and no play makes Twilight a dully filly." Twilight has also improved greatly in her anxiety issues and fears and insecurities about disappointing others. She also clearly has OCD but has gone quite a while from having a significant OCD freak out like she did in Lesson Zero and It's About Time. Twilight has also learned to become more open minded and realizing that just because something dosen't have an explanation dosen't mean it isn't true as she learned in Feeling Pinkie Keene and to not judge a book by its cover which she did quite literally in Bridle Gossip.

 

Rainbow has done this by becoming less reckless and arrogant and more responsible as we clearly saw in Wonderbolt Academy when she called out Lightning Dust for her dangerous and reckless behavior even if it meant giving up her dream of being a Wonderbolt. She still has an ego and some of it came out in the most recent episode but it is clearly getting better. Rainbow Dash has from the beginning had some glaring insecurities expressing emotions or showing affection. While these insecurities have only just begun to be addressed in Sleepless In Ponyville her new sister like relationship with Scootaloo presents great opportunities for character development for both of them.  

[Whatevs 377]

I'd argue that Twilight and Rainbow Dash are the most developed of the mane 6. Pinkie Pie and Applejack are the same as they've been since the pilot, and Rarity still barely puts her friends ahead of her fashion. Fluttershy has developed a bit more than the rest of the bunch in becoming much more outgoing (compare her today with how she was when Twilight first met her), but even with a bit more maturation they're still all largely the same ponies they've always been.

Oh good, a dash fanboy who mischaracterizes Rarity. What a shock.

I guess you missed Suited For Success where she did put her friends above her fashion (whatever that means), Green Isn't Your Colored where she supported her friends despite her jealousy, or Sweet & Elite where she gave up on her dream for her friends. Or SoME and DQ where she grew her relationship with Spike? Sisterhooves Social where she grew her relationship with Sweetie Belle by dealing with her phobia?

 

Or has she still not proven herself to your standards?

[Jammo 986]

Rainbow is far less insensitive and conceited Season 3 onward.  Starting with 3 I felt Rainbow was really improving as a character.  Sleepless in Ponyville showed how caring she can be and Wonderbolt Academy she showed her integrity and willing to put everything she wanted on the line to do the right thing.  She's grown a lot.

 

Twilight is getting better with her OCD.  She has bouts of it but it's not getting way out of hand.  Considering the fact that she has such close bonds with her friends when she wanted nothing to do with friends in the pilot shows she's changed.

[Whatevs 377]

Twilight and Rainbow Dash are well developed because while because they began the series with significant and obvious flaws yet through character development while they still have some flaws have learned from some of their mistakes and matured as characters. Twilight has done this by realizing that while studying and hitting the books are both good things that balance is important in life and "all work and no play makes Twilight a dully filly." Twilight has also improved greatly in her anxiety issues and fears and insecurities about disappointing others. She also clearly has OCD but has gone quite a while from having a significant OCD freak out like she did in Lesson Zero and It's About Time. Twilight has also learned to become more open minded and realizing that just because something dosen't have an explanation dosen't mean it isn't true as she learned in Feeling Pinkie Keene and to not judge a book by its cover which she did quite literally in Bridle Gossip.

 

Rainbow has done this by becoming less reckless and arrogant and more responsible as we clearly saw in Wonderbolt Academy when she called out Lightning Dust for her dangerous and reckless behavior even if it meant giving up her dream of being a Wonderbolt. She still has an ego and some of it came out in the most recent episode but it is clearly getting better. Rainbow Dash has from the beginning had some glaring insecurities expressing emotions or showing affection. While these insecurities have only just begun to be addressed in Sleepless In Ponyville her new sister like relationship with Scootaloo presents great opportunities for character development for both of them.  

Okay so Twilight has grown in precisely one way, learning to accept other ideas (only once I might add since she was never wary of Zecora so she could not have grown). And in both CE and Princess Twilight she freaked out over failure so she has not really grown there.

 

>Rainbow has done this by becoming less reckless and arrogant and more responsible as we clearly saw in Wonderbolt Academy when she called out Lightning Dust for her dangerous and reckless behavior even if it meant giving up her dream of being a Wonderbolt.

Again that misses the point, after three seasons of being reckless and arrogant not being so anymore is not great development. Go back to my Fluttershy point.

 

And the Scootaloo argument is lame since other characters have also developed their relationships. 

[Scootalove 10,692]

As I said, you are not listening.

We're done here.

Okay, I get it. I know you think their development is lackluster, and why you question that they are more developed than the other four. Both of them have their flaws from the mistakes that they have made in the past, not saying your wrong just hear me out.

 

They start to learn from their mistakes, to not make the same mistakes. Twilight and Rainbow Dash have matured from learning from their flaws.

[Whatevs 377]

Okay, I think I have my thoughts realized enough to throw down the rest of my position.

 

I would argue that Rarity is more developed than either of them. So I present a hastily typed account of her development.

 

Well her relationship with AJ improved ala episodes like Crystal Empire and It's About Time.

She's much closer with Sweetie Belle as evidence by the ending of Sleepless, willingness to be playful which was the conflict of Sisterhooves. Yes there was the humorous dysfunctional stuff that was lame in that ep, but it was clearly done in jest.

Her relationship with Spike has also improved, taking on a doting Aunt/Big Sister sort of thing starting with Secret of My Excess and culminating in Dragon Quest where she was the most vociferous in defending him.

That's three characters to Dash's two (Fluttershy and Scoots)

 

Then we have the episode conflicts that Rarity got past. Hers are far more varied so she has shown off much more development than different shades of the same conflict (for the most part, there is some repetition).

She learned not to compromise her work and the perils of trying pleasing everyone in Suited.

She learned the errors of bragging in Sonic Rainboom.

The latter paid off in Sweet & Elite wherein she sings a song that touches on showing off, but never actually does resort to showing off during the song's montage. She's learned to keep in internal. Even further, if you watch her during the beginning of the song she graciously lends her support to the Art in the Gallery and the Charity Auction which in turn causes the Elites to lend their support (despite their previous ambivalence).

The former was also touched on in Sweet & Elite where the conflict is both caused and resolved by the realization that she could not have both. Afterall, she initially chose the Garden Party because she realized she had to choose between friends and her future. And she chose her friends at the end after realizing the error of compromising them. Whereas in Suited she tried to do both. She also tried to do both in S&E but it was not her preferred option.

Sweet & Elite is noteworthy character development since it brings up her fears of failure and disappointing others and then uses this to create a conflict wherein she has to choose between her friends and her dreams. She chose friends.

This is important because it also conveys the lesson to be proud of who you are and where you are from. Which is something Rarity needed.

.

Then there is Green, where she starts off jealous but learns to overcome it for her friend.

Even a Dog and Pony Show developed her somewhat by showing her gem magic (being a material girl who can get her own gems, albeit with some assistance, is an important part of the character's appeal) and also showed a level of self awareness (as she knew what effect her whining would have on the dogs) that is exploited later on in her character in her drama queen antics.

Then there is Secret of My Excess where her relationship with Spike grows. And is then touched upon in Dragon Quest where she is the most protective of him.

This is pretty much the last we see of her but I would still argue she’s ahead of Dash.

 

And as I said, I'm open to the idea of Dash being more developed than her but it would have to the result of there not being a Rarity episode for two years and the writers making a concerted effort to apologize for MMDW. 

Edited December 15, 2013 by Whatevs

[Shanks 10,817]

Okay so Twilight has grown in precisely one way, learning to accept other ideas (only once I might add since she was never wary of Zecora so she could not have grown). And in both CE and Princess Twilight she freaked out over failure so she has not really grown there.

Yes Twilight was a voice of reason at first, but then jumped to conclusions like everypony else after the mane 6 were infected with the "curse" which turned out to be a poison joke infection which Zecora warned them against. And Twilight did literally judge a book by its cover by admitting to Zecora that she had the same book that Zecora reccomended but didn't bother to even look at it because "the title was just too weird". Twilight actually handled herself quite well in "Princess Twilight" she was understandable a bit stressed out but was able to remain calm and collected enough to keep in control where previously she would have completely fallen apart. Remember that in Lesson Zero she freaked over being "tardy" and in It's About Time she freaked out about a hypothetical event that only happened because she freaked out in the first place. The Twilight has come a long way from the anti social, awkward recluse that had a pathological fear of anything even the slightest bit out of the ordinary or out of place happening. Twilight has still shown some subtle signs of OCD and anxiety issues but to say she has not improved at all is simply not the case.

[Scootalove 10,692]

Okay, I think I have my thoughts realized enough to throw down the rest of my position.

 

I would argue that Rarity is more developed than either of them. So I present a hastily typed account of her development.

 

Well her relationship with AJ improved ala episodes like Crystal Empire and It's About Time.

She's much closer with Sweetie Belle as evidence by the ending of Sleepless, willingness to be playful which was the conflict of Sisterhooves. Yes there was the humorous dysfunctional stuff that was lame in that ep, but it was clearly done in jest.

Her relationship with Spike has also improved, taking on a doting Aunt/Big Sister sort of thing starting with Secret of My Excess and culminating in Dragon Quest where she was the most vociferous in defending him.

That's three characters to Dash's two (Fluttershy and Scoots)

 

Then we have the episode conflicts that Rarity got past. Hers are far more varied so she has shown off much more development than different shades of the same conflict (for the most part, there is some repetition).

She learned not to compromise her work and the perils of trying pleasing everyone in Suited.

She learned the errors of bragging in Sonic Rainboom.

The latter paid off in Sweet & Elite wherein she sings a song that touches on showing off, but never actually does resort to showing off during the song's montage. She's learned to keep in internal. Even further, if you watch her during the beginning of the song she graciously lends her support to the Art in the Gallery and the Charity Auction which in turn causes the Elites to lend their support (despite their previous ambivalence).

The former was also touched on in Sweet & Elite where the conflict is both caused and resolved by the realization that she could not have both. Afterall, she initially chose the Garden Party because she realized she had to choose between friends and her future. And she chose her friends at the end after realizing the error of compromising them. Whereas in Suited she tried to do both. She also tried to do both in S&E but it was not her preferred option.

Sweet & Elite is noteworthy character development since it brings up her fears of failure and disappointing others and then uses this to create a conflict wherein she has to choose between her friends and her dreams. She chose friends.

This is important because it also conveys the lesson to be proud of who you are and where you are from. Which is something Rarity needed.

.

Then there is Green, where she starts off jealous but learns to overcome it for her friend.

Even a Dog and Pony Show developed her somewhat by showing her gem magic (being a material girl who can get her own gems, albeit with some assistance, is an important part of the character's appeal) and also showed a level of self awareness (as she knew what effect her whining would have on the dogs) that is exploited later on in her character in her drama queen antics.

Then there is Secret of My Excess where her relationship with Spike grows. And is then touched upon in Dragon Quest where she is the most protective of him.

This is pretty much the last we see of her but I would still argue she’s ahead of Dash.

 

And as I said, I'm open to the idea of Dash being more developed than her but it would have to the result of there not being a Rarity episode for two years and the writers making a concerted effort to apologize for MMDW. 

Mysterious Mare Do Well was a bad episode, the writers won't apologize for it. I want more Rarity character development too, since we're getting a Rarity episode this season. Not that I have a problem with Dash being more developed and Twilight being more developed. That's about it.

[Whatevs 377]

Yes Twilight was a voice of reason at first, but then jumped to conclusions like everypony else after the mane 6 were infected with the "curse" which turned out to be a poison joke infection which Zecora warned them against. And Twilight did literally judge a book by its cover by admitting to Zecora that she had the same book that Zecora reccomended but didn't bother to even look at it because "the title was just too weird". Twilight actually handled herself quite well in "Princess Twilight" she was understandable a bit stressed out but was able to remain calm and collected enough to keep in control where previously she would have completely fallen apart. Remember that in Lesson Zero she freaked over being "tardy" and in It's About Time she freaked out about a hypothetical event that only happened because she freaked out in the first place. The Twilight has come a long way from the anti social, awkward recluse that had a pathological fear of anything even the slightest bit out of the ordinary or out of place happening. Twilight has still shown some subtle signs of OCD and anxiety issues but to say she has not improved at all is simply not the case.

Except I don't think that's true. She was never that socially awkward or antisocial. I know the Pilot said she was but as soon as episode 3 rolled around she was bossing people around.

 

And the signs aren't subtle. They may be less pronounced and I will concede that, but I don't see how that compares to either Dash or Rarity's dev.

[hawkflame 3,315]

I think you have a good point about Twilight, less so about Rainbow Dash (And I totally agree with your assessment of Rarity, which is why she's my favorite character).  With Dash you do get the sense that sh is much more mature now than she was at first- first season Dash would never have been so sisterly to Scootaloo, wouldn't have been the "responsible" one in Wonderbolts Academy, and I think she would have been much less supportive of Fluttershy in Hurricane Fluttershy- or at least she wouldn't have backed off her hard and in your face approach. 

 

While Twilight isn't afraid to be confident in her magical abilities now (unlike in Boast Busters), she had to more or less re-learn the same or similar lesson with Lesson Zero and It's About Time.  And while she has learned to not freak out (Games Ponies Play), I don't see that much *huge* development for her, and now with her Alicorn Princess status, I fear that the characters won't allow her to grow further because they don't want to make her "too perfect". 

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

Contrary to popular belief, Rainbow Dash's lessons do not all have to do with one aspect of her character. The one people focus on, her arrogance and pride, is certainly a massive part of her development but it'd be far from true to say that's the end of the story. Sonic Rainboom dealt with her fear of failure and showed that she's not nearly as self confident as she appears. Best Pet taught her the lesson she shouldn't have needed to learn in the first place, about valuing dedication and loyalty over superficial qualities. Mare Do Well went on to tackle her ego and returned to her issues with needing to be seen as the best, and while it only seemed to aggravate them, it was good to have them addressed again. Read it and Weep also dealt with this on some level, with her fear of people thinking less of her if they found out that she could enjoy a quieter and nerdier hobby. She was capable of enjoying reading, but that didn't jive with the Rainbow Dash she was determined to project to others or the image she had of herself. Contrast this with Daring Don't, where she's ready and eager to dork out in front of everyone without thinking twice about it. That's an incredible change.

 

Going forward, in Hurricane Fluttershy she demonstrated a greater degree of sympathy and sensitivity than most were used to seeing from her. If we're talking about characters whose relationships she's improved with over time, you have to mention Pinkie Pie as well, who is quite close to Dash after Griffon the Brush Off and was touched on again in Too Many Pinkie Pies. You'd also have to mention Fluttershy, obviously, and Scootaloo as well after Sleepless in Ponyville. Between S1 and today's episode, she's become enormously closer to Scoots, a better role model, and even capable of affirming her self worth whether she's capable of flying like Dash or not.

 

Wonderbolt Academy is a great example as well, showing much greater care for teamwork and putting others before herself than previous episodes. She was willing to turn her back on her lifelong dream forever if it meant having to tolerate reckless, selfish and showboating behavior. That's a huge change from the Dash of before, who acted more like Lightning Dust at times than she'd like to admit. I don't view Dash as necessarily having the strength of character to do what she does in the picture below, at the beginning of the series.

 

(I don't overuse this picture at all by the way )

 

If you're going to try and sum up her character development, a lot of it has to do with heroes and projecting a self image. She's learning over time that she doesn't need to be the best, be seen as the best, or be somebody she isn't for the sake of accomplishing things. She's also learning, like in Wonderbolt Academy and Daring Don't, that heroes are people too. They can make mistakes, goof things up, but the real mark of a hero is how they respond to failure. I think she's coming along nicely, and being a much better and more worthy hero to Scootaloo than she was before.

 

Overall, I consider her the best developed character in the show in my extremely biased opinion. This isn't a slight on any other character. Contrarily, Whatevs makes a very good case for Rarity above and helped me appreciate her more as well. There are people who could do the same for other main ponies. I still wouldn't call Dash's development lackluster or anything like like that, even if you can certainly convincingly argue that there are better developed ponies in the show

Edited December 15, 2013 by DashForever

[Whatevs 377]

Contrary to popular belief, Rainbow Dash's lessons do not all have to do with one aspect of her character. The one people focus on, her arrogance and pride, is certainly a massive part of her development but it'd be far from true to say that's the end of the story. Sonic Rainboom dealt with her fear of failure and showed that she's not nearly as self confident as she appears. Best Pet taught her the lesson she shouldn't have needed to learn in the first place, about valuing dedication and loyalty over superficial qualities. Mare Do Well went on to tackle her ego and returned to her issues with needing to be seen as the best, and while it only seemed to aggravate them, it was good to have them addressed again. Read it and Weep also dealt with this on some level, with her fear of people thinking less of her if they found out that she could enjoy a quieter and nerdier hobby. She was capable of enjoying reading, but that didn't jive with the Rainbow Dash she was determined to project to others or the image she had of herself. Contrast this with Daring Don't, where she's ready and eager to dork out in front of everyone without thinking twice about it. That's an incredible change.

 

Going forward, in Hurricane Fluttershy she demonstrated a greater degree of sympathy and sensitivity than most were used to seeing from her. If we're talking about characters whose relationships she's improved with over time, you have to mention Pinkie Pie as well, who is quite close to Dash after Griffon the Brush Off and was touched on again in Too Many Pinkie Pies. You'd also have to mention Fluttershy, obviously, and Scootaloo as well after Sleepless in Ponyville. Between S1 and today's episode, she's become enormously closer to Scoots, a better role model, and even capable of affirming her self worth whether she's capable of flying like Dash or not.

 

Wonderbolt Academy is a great example as well, showing much greater care for teamwork and putting others before herself than previous episodes. She was willing to turn her back on her lifelong dream forever if it meant having to tolerate reckless, selfish and showboating behavior. That's a huge change from the Dash of before, who acted more like Lightning Dust at times than she'd like to admit. I don't view Dash as necessarily having the strength of character to do what she does in the picture below, at the beginning of the series.

 

 

If you're going to try and sum up her character development, a lot of it has to do with heroes and projecting a self image. She's learning over time that she doesn't need to be the best, be seen as the best, or be somebody she isn't for the sake of accomplishing things. She's also learning, like in Wonderbolt Academy and Daring Don't, that heroes are people too. They can make mistakes, goof things up, but the real mark of a hero is how they respond to failure. I think she's coming along nicely, and being  much better and more worthy hero to Scootaloo than she was before.

 

Overall, I consider her the best developed character in the show in my extremely biased opinion. This isn't a slight on any other character. Contrarily, Whatevs makes a very good case for Rarity above and helped me appreciate her more as well. There are people who could do the same for other main ponies. I still wouldn't call Dash's development lackluster or anything like like that, even if you can certainly convincingly argue that there are better developed ponies in the show

Nope. Aside from SR where her insecurities are given light.... Read it And Weep, May the Best Pet Win are both about her ego. She's too egotistical too admit she likes reading because of her image, and too egotistical too have a pet that doesn't go with her image.

I had neglected Pinkie Pie because I didn't think there was much there, but there is about as much there as there is with Rarity anf Fluttershy so the advantage is still mine (Green and PYHD)

 

And to avoid confusion. I'm not saying Dash is not well developed, just that she is not more developed than Rarity.

The only reason people think Dash is more developed is that the development is worn on her sleeve but she's still held back by the fact that her development was simply letting go of her ego. 

And aside from SR, the argument doesn't change anything.

 

Wonderbolts Academy and Hurricane Fluttershy are just when the development is cashed in and as a result are important but supporting Fluttershy and sacrifice for the sake of one's friends (she was mad at the Wonderbolts and Lightning Dust because of what almost happened to her friends) are things that Rarity did far before her. In Green with Fluttershy (overcoming jealousy to support a friend) and S&E (slightly different from WA because in S&E Rarity caused the conflict herself whereas WA Dash was able to blame someone else)

 

Come on Dashfans, I rushed out this issue and you have the advantage in screen time. 

Don't brohoof platitudes.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Whatevs

[Stellafera 3,836]

(There is an interesting personality typing system known as Enneagram which puts a particular emphasis on flaws and motivations. I bring this up because Type 3 very much describes Rainbow Dash.)

 

Nope. Aside from SR where her insecurities are given light.... Read it And Weep, May the Best Pet Win are both about her ego. She's too egotistical too admit she likes reading because of her image, and too egotistical too have a pet that doesn't go with her image.

 

Can't they be about both, especially with Read It And Weep? Rainbow Dash is egotistical because she is obsessed with her own image. And why is she obsessed with her image? Because she relies on it to feel a sense of self worth. Why does she rely on it? Because she's insecure.

 

I would argue that The Mysterious Mare Do Well also strongly features her insecurities; she wasn't a jerk the entire episode. She got more and more addicted to the positive feedback of the crowd and started becoming unhinged and afraid without it, which really suggests a pony with weak self-confidence. As the series goes on, it develops the fact that her "arrogance" is not all that it seems.

 

Rainbow Dash had painful lessons in her Season 2 episodes, and how long it took for her to stand up to Lightning Dust is a sign that her development is not simple. 

 

Wonderbolts Academy is a great example of the character development between Season 2 and Season 3 Rainbow Dash. The Mysterious Mare Do Well had Rainbow Dash getting crazy jealous over somepony being better than her. Here, she swallows her pride and acknowledges that Lightning Dust is more deserving.

 

Except she isn't. This gets right at Rainbow Dash's insecurity. RD is very aware in Season 3 of her issues with jealousy and arrogance. So when she thinks that maybe Lightning Dust shouldn't be lead pony, she isn't sure whether she's right or that her flaws are getting the best of her once again. It's not just peer pressure from Lightning Dust that prevents Rainbow from telling Spitfire. It's that having so many reality checks and slaps in the face in Season 2 makes it hard for her to trust herself to be in the right anymore. 

 

Rainbow Dash tried really hard to convince herself that it's just me being jealous, it's just me being less worthy of being a Wonderbolt, it's just me. But she eventually decided that she WAS going to stand up for what she believed in even if it bit her in the flank so many times before. It's sort of a Fluttershy plot, actually, but with Rainbow Dash. Goes to show just how much character development RD has had.

 

If you want to boil her down too, Rarity is basically focused on ambition; either for herself or for her friends. She does have a variety of ways that they've explored her and explored that, but the title of the thread isn't about pitting her off against Rainbow Dash. And on her own merits, Rainbow Dash is developed just fine.

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

 

 

And to avoid confusion. I'm not saying Dash is not well developed, just that she is not more developed than Rarity.

 

 

 

I ask because the only development the two of them have gotten is fairly lackluster in my opinion.

 

Alright then, sorry, this line and your overall tone in the thread and in the title lead me to make that assumption.

 

I don't view what I said about Best Pet as being incorrect though. You can certainly tie that into her ego and she was certainly being very arrogant throughout the episode, but phrasing the lesson she learned as learning to admire more intangible qualities rather than the most obviously cool ones seems fine. It's more or less how the friendship letter was worded too. And we both seem to agree that her concern was her self image in Read it and Weep too.

 

Also true about Hurricane Fluttershy. It was more showcasing her development than actually teaching her anything, which was a big part of why it was so satisfying to see. Her development impressed me. I'm not saying that Rarity wasn't also extremely impressive in Green Isn't Your Color as well. I'll admit to being much more impressed with Wonderbolt Academy than I was with Sweet and Elite because Dash presumably believed that she was turning her back on a dream that she'd had presumably since her youth and to ponies that she'd admired for years. Compared to Rarity's publicly admitting who her friends were (while they were acting completely socially inept), and presumably losing social status with people who hadn't treated her particularly well in the first place, I'm not sure if I can put them in the same category. Rarity was still free to pursue a career in fashion afterwards, and while her social status was certainly important to her, I view it as being secondary to her goals of fame as a designer. Though they're clearly connected. Shrug. Just my opinion.

 

Guess I was just confused about the OP and the turn the thread seemed to take. In the OP, you seem to be saying that you're not particularly satisfied with Dash and Twilight's development. Later on it seems to shift to your arguing that Rarity is more developed than either, and becomes more focused on your persuading others about the quality of her development. You already did the latter quite well, and I'm not really interested in debating over who is more developed than who. That's not what I came into the thread to do. If you don't deny that Dash is well developed, and I don't deny that Rarity is well developed (which I don't), then I think I'm done here.

[Whatevs 377]

for Stellafera

 

>Can't they be about both, especially with Read It And Weep? Rainbow Dash is egotistical because she is obsessed with her own image. And why is she obsessed with her image? Because she relies on it to feel a sense of self worth. Why does she rely on it? Because she's insecure.

I would argue that The Mysterious Mare Do Well also strongly features her insecurities; she wasn't a jerk the entire episode. She got more and more addicted to the positive feedback of the crowd and started becoming unhinged and afraid without it, which really suggests a pony with weak self-confidence. As the series goes on, it develops the fact that her "arrogance" is not all that it seems.

Rainbow Dash had painful lessons in her Season 2 episodes, and how long it took for her to stand up to Lightning Dust is a sign that her development is not simple.

 

It can be. But that cuts both ways. Rarity's insecurities also contribute to her character. But the way she displays it is far more complex.

In referring mostly S&E where it is pretty heavily implied that she fears not just failure but disappointing others (which was also used in the Nightmare Rarity comic arc, which I'm counting because it uses a canon character despite not being canon itself). She's afraid of disappointing people so she proceeds to make bad decisions in that episode. Her impetus for doing so is to both try and impress the Elites but also to avoid hurting her friends. 

So her fear has a much more interesting impact on her character than a superiority complex like Dash.

 

And DashForever

>because Dash presumably believed that she was turning her back on a dream that she'd had presumably since her youth and to ponies that she'd admired for years

Simply pointing out that Dash's dream stuck with you more proves my point: Dash is not more developed, she's simply more obvious.

Rarity also had a dream which she turned her back on for her friends. She always wanted to be a part of Canterlot society. Yes the circumstances were different but it still happened.

 

And I confess the thread's initial purpose was not well realized. But I did say I was speaking somewhat extemporaneously.

[Static Electricity 729]

They aren't.

 

None of the mane 6 are properly developed. Sure, they lear a "lesson" at the end of most episodes, but they're always the exact same person by the next episode. Well, almost the same, the writers slowly evolve their techniques for writing the characters. That or different writers make things feel different.

[FNGRpony 658]

As I said, you are not listening.

We're done here.

So if i disagreed with you would I too not be listening?

Explain to me how pinkie pie has developed.

 

Here i'm gonna cheat.  Season 4 pinkie pie.  explain to me how she's equal to her 5 friends.  ^^'

Dev-elopement wise.

Edited December 15, 2013 by FNGRpony