I know many consider King Sombra the worst villian ever but . . .

[A Talking Dragon 257]

. . . I think that the Plunder Seeds/black thorn vines of season 4 deserves that title more:

 

 

- appears from no where. Where did Discord even get those seeds from?

 

- somehow grew all the way into Canterlot--a crowd, major, capital city-- without anyone noticing.

 

- somehow had the intelligence to track down the princesses and use stealth inside a several story tall castle that at the edge of a cliff. How did it even grow up floors without anyone noticing?

 

- somehow overpowered two alicorn princesses--one of which is strongest at night--with minimal effort, yet struggled with five non-alicorn ponies who fought it in the thick of its own jungle, using non-magical means.

 

- somehow affects the sky, even though it appears land base.

 

- messed with all magic, yet Twilight was completely fine, and Rarity seemed to have use of her horn again in the jungle.

 

- can affect the moon and sun? Note: the princesses were captured, but if Celestia was ponynap at night, then the sun shouldn't have been up in the sky when Twilight woke up. It would still be night afterward. I doubt Luna would try to raise the sun on her own, first thing, if she felt something was wrong with her sister.

 

 

 

. . . that's quite a lot of holes to this major villain.

 

While I still enjoyed Princess Twilight Sparkle, I was surprised there wasn't any type of criticism on the Plunder seeds. 

 

Say what you will about King Sombra, but at least I can explain away some of his feats:

 

- Twilight leveled unicorn that dove into dark arts

- took over an earth-pony-based kingdom with magic and mind control

- used clever traps to guard against enemies

- defeated easily by the princesses

 

 

So, what do you think? Do I have a point about the Plunder Seeds?

 

-

Edited February 6, 2014 by A Talking Dragon

[Grumpy Enchantress 586]

It's not even a real villain, though.

[Jammo 986]

Plunder seeds aren't even a villain. They were problem that grew from neglect and inconsiderate behaviour on Discords part.

I actually like Sombra and feel they should explore him more. I'm not arguing that. But those vines were more an unchecked threat than any creature that was supposed to have any big story behind them. Sombra gets flak because he clearly was a pony who had a real history, origin and motives and should be held at a higher standard than some plants. Discord called them "MY plunder seeds" so I assumed he just created them to be a problem. Didn't need any real story besides that.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Jammo

[Verily British 145]

Personally, I rather like Sombra. He's about the only villain who was truly evil, like enslave-a-kingdom-with-black-magic-and-become-a-cruel-tyrant evil, not the petty jealousy or half-baked plans that the other villains had.

 

Additionally, I also thought that Sombra, in comparison to an alicorn, queen of the Changelings and the God of Chaos, has more power than any of them. Allow me to elaborate. Sombra, a unicorn presumably just as mortal as Twilight before her ascension, through his own power gained immortality (having survived 1,000 years imprisonment), a mist-like form similar to Nightmare Moon, single-handedly enslaved an entire kingdom, became so powerful that he warranted both the royal sisters AND the Elements of Harmony to defeat him and even whilst being defeated he managed to cause an entire city to disappear for 1,000 years.

 

I don't quite know why people think that he's such a bad villain, let's compare him to the other villains;

 

Nightmare Moon: She missed multiple opportunities to incapacitate or even kill the Mane Six. She charged at Twilight instead of holding her ground, firing bolts of magic at her or simply conjuring a barrier. Even though Twilight's horn was charged and glowing she still did nothing to stop Twilight from doing whatever it was Nightmare thought she was doing, choosing instead to run at her. Even when Twilight had teleported from her, she still had enough time to shoot Twilight whilst she was trying to generate the 'spark'.

 

Discord: Despite his apparent ability to warp reality he still didn't simply teleport the elements to the centre of the planet and remove the royal sister's and Mane Six's wings and horns. He left them with a way to defeat him and underestimated his opponents. Even though he wasn't expecting it he still could have teleported out of the way before the elements even hit him.

 

Chrysalis: Do I really need to explain this one? Her incredibly flawed and half-baked plan. Her inability to act as Cadance. The fact that she let the actual Cadance live instead of killing her. The fact that she imprisoned Twilight and Cadance in the same place, increasing the chance of escape. And the only reason that she could beat Celestia was because she had stolen power from Shining and Cadance's love for another.

 

Oh dear, I seem to have ever so slightly gone off on a small rant. But my points are still valid nonetheless. I agree with what Jammo said. The plants are not villains themselves and were just created by Discord to cause chaos and problems.

[A Talking Dragon 257]

^ I disagree, Jammo. The Plunder Seeds had a will and life force to react to new threats, a goal it wanted to achieve, an intellect to carry out orders--as well as find and capture the royal sisters--, and body structure apparently advance enough to take in meat.

 

It is for all proposes the antagonist of that main arc.

 

-

Edited February 6, 2014 by A Talking Dragon

[Silanda 24]

I don't quite know why people think that he's such a bad villain, let's compare him to the other villains;

 

I can only speak for myself but the simple problem I have with Sombra is that, unlike the other villains, he's utterly boring: he's a simple "boo, hiss, evil" villain with absolutely no signs of depth or character whatsoever. Discord, Nightmare Moon/Luna, and Chrysalis each have character. Sombra by comparison is a mere plot device.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Silanda

[Koelath 445]

This entire thread is invalid based on the simple fact that seeds are not a villain.

[Koelath 445]

enslave-a-kingdom-and-become-a-cruel-tyrant evil.

Chrysalis. Nightmare Moon (assuming ponies don't starve to death). Discord, who had in fact done it once before already. Oh, and Trixie, sorta.

 

Way to describe every single major villain.

[packmule1123 55]

Sombra wasn't really a bad villain. He was a powerful villain, yes, but he was...almost...poorly developed. He wasn't the worst villain, but he was more of a Sauron than anything.

[Jangocoolguy 433]

I like Sombra. He did good with the time he got. Actions speak louder than words (and if he ever returns, they should get a professional VA to voice him, which would be a big help)

 

And the plunder seeds weren't villains by any means. They were just an obstacle/disaster to be dealt with. If anything Discord was the villain there for planting them in the first place.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Jangobadass

[Castle Bleck 19,356]

Sombra (...) was more of a Sauron than anything.

 

That was Meghan's intent.

[CHAOS_FANTAZY 42]

Is that so?  I would think that, all things considered, people find Sunset Shimmer the worst villain in FiM.  All things considered, Sombra's status in the public has improved since his unveiling; I used to think he was the worst, but light has been shed.  I respect him for what he was a thousand years ago—then, he had the strength and cunning to subdue a large population, maintain an iron-fisted rule over them, and inflict so much soul-shattering suffering upon them that the very mention of his name brought them physical pain.
Then he was locked away for a thousand years and lost all that cunning, neutralizing any chance he had at being a threat, but still.

 

I don't really even consider the Plunder Seeds to be sentient, so I throw them in along with the rest of the FiM monster bestiary.  Calling them a major villain is too much of a stretch, even if they got a Season Opening all to themselves.

[Castle Bleck 19,356]

I like Sombra. He did good with the time he got. Actions speak louder than words (...)

 

Enough to where he got his own entries in the Crazy-Prepared and Dangerously Genre Savvy tropes.

 

P.S.: That episode needed F-Zero music:

Edited September 21, 2014 by A.V.

[Talisman 31]

I liked Sombra a lot more once I wrapped my head around his role. See, he was never intended to be a character in the same way Nightmare Moon or Chrysalis were. Sombra was a threat. He was an all-powerful menace that forced the Mane Six to work fast. He was, as packmule noted, very Sauron-like. Viewed in that light, he did his job very well, and was perhaps the darkest and most overtly evil of the major villains.

 

And the black vines, yeah, were not villains (or a villain). They were an obstacle, a threat, a challenge, but they did not appear to be sapient and showed no signs of some directed intent. They existed simply to sap the Tree of Harmony and spread chaos and woe.

[Geek0zoid 1,468]

I'm only speaking for myself when I say this.

I don't consider those seeds to be villains, but more like tools for Discord. Yes, they came out of nowhere, but I wouldn't consider them to be actual villains.

More like tools.

[Mywas 687]

I can only speak for myself but the simple problem I have with Sombra is that, unlike the other villains, he's utterly boring: he's a simple "boo, hiss, evil" villain with absolutely no signs of depth or character whatsoever. Discord, Nightmare Moon/Luna, and Chrysalis each have character. Sombra by comparison is a mere plot device.

NMM was going to be redeemed so they had to give her depth.

Discord was the main focus of RoH so giving him depth made sense

Chrysalis its more of a "heat of the moment" th8ng were giving her depth helped the plot .

Sombra on the other hand was going to die and wasn't the main focus of the episode.

[A Talking Dragon 257]

^ Again everyone, something doesn't have to be in pony form or human like to serve as an antagonist. Example: zombies are the antagonist in The Walking Dead. Mankind, in general, can be an antagonist.

[Castle Bleck 19,356]

Isn't that Fall Of The Empire video supposed to come out sometime this year? Not to mention the upcoming Sombra arc in the comics.

 

Cue overused musical gag:

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by Anti-Villain

[True Rarity 1,240]

It is true that the seeds appear to hold some hidden power, but King Sombra is actually... pure darkness.

[Mywas 687]

Horror fans: "How dare Rob Zombie try and give Michael Myers depth. Pure evil is cool."

 

MLP fans : " How darw they not try to give Sombra depth. Pure evil is not cool"

 

wat

[Forlong 1,726]

Enough to where he got his own entries in the Crazy-Prepared and Dangerously Genre Savvy tropes.

 

P.S.,

 

That episode needed F-Zero music:

 

Why does that go so well with that scene?

 

Actually, Sombra is one of my favorite villains.  I'm going to release a fanfic with him as the main villain during the gap between seasons 4 and 5.  But, it's a secret, so don't tell anyone...

 

...oh...

[Castle Bleck 19,356]

Horror fans: "How dare Rob Zombie try and give Michael Myers depth. Pure evil is cool."

 

MLP fans : " How darw they not try to give Sombra depth. Pure evil is not cool"

 

wat

 

I wonder how Chris Jericho would react:

 

[Koelath 445]

I like Sombra. He did good with the time he got. Actions speak louder than words (and if he ever returns, they should get a professional VA to voice him, which would be a big help)

 

And the plunder seeds weren't villains by any means. They were just an obstacle/disaster to be dealt with. If anything Discord was the villain there for planting them in the first place.

His actions being...Growl menacingly from behind a forcefield? Yeah, great.

[Talisman 31]

Horror fans: "How dare Rob Zombie try and give Michael Myers depth. Pure evil is cool."

 

MLP fans : " How darw they not try to give Sombra depth. Pure evil is not cool"

 

wat

I like well-rounded characters. Michael Myers was intended to be scary because he had no motivation: he was just pure, conscienceless evil - yet he was human. He was very alien, but in a human form. That - the idea that a nomal human could just be evil, just because, with no real reason - is pretty disturbing.

 

FiM has some remarkably nuanced characters, even especially the villains. Nightmare Moon is tragic and sympathetic; Discord is effectively an all-powerful child trying to stave off boredom; Queen Chrysalis is an alien lifeform seeking food for her swarm. All villainous, but all comprehensible.

 

Then we have Sombra, who has no canon reason for his behavior. He just . . . is. He's evil because the plot demands a villain, and he's not even a personable villain like Discord: he barely even speaks, and spends most of the episodes as a vast, shadowy cloud.

 

Like I said, I've come to like Sombra as a threat, but there's no denying he falls flat as a character.

[hawkflame 3,310]

Horror fans: "How dare Rob Zombie try and give Michael Myers depth. Pure evil is cool."

 

MLP fans : " How darw they not try to give Sombra depth. Pure evil is not cool"

 

wat

 

 

The issue isn't depth, the issue is whether or not it was handled well.  It's not that he was pure evil.  It's that he was boring.  Pure evil can make for great villains if they're presented in the right way.  The shark in Jaws, for instance is a great villain because of the way it was shot.  Jaws and Michael Myers were great villains because of the subtlety of the directors, creating a lot of suspense, and great atmosphere.  Michael Myers is simply *scarier* as an unrepentant killing machine. 

 

Yes, Sombra may have been great *if* DHX were allowed to create something as terrifyingly suspenseful as Carpenter's Halloween or the first Jaws.  But seeing as how this is a child friendly TV show, that's not in the cards.  So you're left with a "Pure evil" force that's not that scary and doesn't have the charisma to make up for it like Discord or Chrysalis.