"It's Just A Kids Show"

[Sir Wulfington 276]

I've heard this line more than enough times. Often when someone tries to justify a case of poor writing in the FIM, they'll defend it by saying it doesn't matter because it's entertainment for kids, so it doesn't need to be intelligently written. First, this isn't just a show for kids, Lauren Faust (as seen in the quote I'm about to link) herself said that the show was meant to appeal not just to kids, but to their parents as well, to people of all ages.

 

 

Even if it was meant for children, it does not justify OOC moments, plot holes, contrivances, inconsistencies, etc. Was not a part of the reason this show was made was to provide a good tv show for little girls, because for the most part, or entirely, shows for their demographic were terrible? By saying "it's just a kids show" in defense of bad writing, you make the assumption that all kids are either too dense to notice even the most obvious of logical errors in a story, or that none of them care. Surely, there are kids who do pick up on problems in writing, and are bothered by these things, maybe not to the extent as older viewers, but I'm certain they exist. Tho as I said above, this show isn't just for kids, it's for everyone. Parent's who watch these shows with their kids would surely rather quality entertainment and not brain-dead bile.

 

Just because your main demographic is children, that does not give you the excuse, as a writer, to not try. You should always make sure your work is devoid of plot holes, characters acting OOC without good reason, retcons, inconsistencies, and of course, ultimately make your story entertaining. Saying "it's a kids show, so it doesn't need to be good" is effectively saying that kids tv shows should just remain terrible, and that's a belief that I'll never agree with nor support.

 

[Tholos 145]

I think the solution to this problem is making a device for children that delivers an electric shock every time they show poor taste.

[Truffles 2,033]

Most of the attitudes from people like Junkie121 come out of ignorance of the show and what's it's really about in tone and story. It's illogical to think if girls can get into shows with mostly all-male casts that boys can't get into a show with a mostly all-female cast.

 

I think Lauren's head exploded when she read that comment. But if I was her, I wouldn't have even limited myself by saying I wrote it for the parents; I would have said I wrote it for everyone, because really that's what it boils down to.

[IlikeBoris 13]

I've heard this line more than enough times. Often when someone tries to justify a case of poor writing in the FIM, they'll defend it by saying it doesn't matter because it's entertainment for kids, so it doesn't need to be intelligently written. First, this isn't just a show for kids, Lauren Faust (as seen in the quote I'm about to link) herself said that the show was meant to appeal not just to kids, but to their parents as well, to people of all ages.

 

 

I think that they are disrespecting themselves and their talent.  They are saying that what they write doesn't matter, that what they write isn't intelligent.  They are wasting the time it took to write it down because they think their readers aren't intelligent, and I don't see why they can't assume that they're also writing for illiterates.

 

Many of my stories have the stupidest concepts possible, but I still take my time to hone the way I write.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

Tell that to Nickelodeon please maybe they'd actually care about the quality of what they put out.

[ShadOBabe 18,997]

LOL!! I'm sorry, I don't have anything to add to the discussion here, but I've never seen that post from Lauren.

I already knew that that was how she felt, but that post is all sorts of win. XDDD

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

It's just pure ignorance. They look at the shallow area and don't seek to find the deep stuff. They're just missing out. 

[Pastel 7,630]

It's not even true now, they know many teenagers/adults watch the show.

[NomDeSpite 452]

The fact that Friendship Is Magic is technically a children's show makes the writing quality more important, not less important! Children need the best influences they possibly can have, and if you raise them improperly, it makes the mistakes that much more difficult to correct once they have grown up, assuming they even can be corrected at all. The "it's just for kids" attitude that Sir Wulfington describes is...deeply insensitive, at best.

[Zekromic 1,054]

Well, writing quality is important in all shows, but I believe we are over demanding sometimes. I mean, is not a freaking anime for God's sake

[Jeric 46,851]

Can I start telling people IRL that they can't do things because it would be OOC for them?

 

[Sir Wulfington 276]

Can I start telling people IRL that they can't do things because it would be OOC for them?

 

 

 

OOC can work, but there needs to be an understandable reason for their change in behavior. If a character does something abnormal for their established personality, it needs to be due to either some in-universe cause that's causing them to act bizarre. For example, you've made a character who literally fears nothing, but knows when to back down from a conflict because he's not foolish. He won't let someone push him around, or walk all over him. Than, in one episode, somebody cuts them in line at a restaurant and they're response is "oh, that's okay, you go ahead" clearly out of fear of this individual. No explanation is given, nobody in the story acts like this is unusual. That is an out of character moment.

 

A way of fixing that would be to have other characters (his close friends for example) make a point that he's not acting like himself, and they try to figure out why. They find out that he's been afflicted with a magical curse that makes him the exact opposite of his true self: a cowardly doormat. Then they try to find a way to cure him blah blah blah. That's how you make a character act OOC without it being bad writing.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[Shanks 10,816]

Tell that to Nickelodeon please maybe they'd actually care about the quality of what they put out.

Yes and Cartoon Network and Disney Channel while we are at it, especially Disney Channel although in their case their "teen" stuff is even worse. I too am tired of this excuse, I grew up in the 90's where this attitude was not accepted as a legitimate excuse. Some of the cartoons I grew up with like Batman the Animated Series for example even explored many serious issues that pushed the limits of what was considered acceptable childrens programming, they were great because even though they were made to be appropriate for children they were written in ways that everyone even adults can appreciate. Yes there were some things that flew over my head and I didn't notice when I was a kid but I still loved those shows and still got what they were about and it gives me a few more things I can appreciate about them as I rewatch them as an adult. And these cartoons didn't mess me up in the slightest if anything they may have even helped, I remember the Hey Arnold episode where it talked about what happened to Arnolds parents and while it didn't say whether they were alive or dead I can't see why we shouldn't have something similar with Applejacks parents, even Rugrats talked about the death of Chuck's mother.

Edited May 2, 2014 by EarthbendingProdigy

[Thrashy 2,800]

Well, writing quality is important in all shows, but I believe we are over demanding sometimes.

 

Goddamn right about that. It would seem some folks are demanding MLP's writing to be downright Shakespearean, which...well, I'm not gonna lie, it's freakin' hilarious, but also kind of sad.

[Shanks 10,816]

Goddamn right about that. It would seem some folks are demanding MLP's writing to be downright Shakespearean, which...well, I'm not gonna lie, it's freakin' hilarious, but also kind of sad.

A fanfic using Shakespearing language would be hilarious but well I just want the show to maintain the same level of quality it had when it started if not get even better and I see some trends that are making it go in a negative direction such as out of character moments, overuse of deus ex machina and various inconsistencies and seriously rushed episodes. I think they should have taken a bit more time with season 4 because the whole twilicorn thing kind of made them have to rush through it a bit more which is really not a good thing. Season 5 may very well be better though so I am going to see what season 4 has left and see what season 5 has to offer once it starts airing.

[ScarfaceOne 263]

Do you think we should redirect this to the more mature MLP thread? I Mean. I Don't think this show would be bad to have more mature content. Digimon had a lot of death in it. And Ace Combat. Made me understand war.

[Thrashy 2,800]

A fanfic using Shakespearing language would be hilarious but well I just want the show to maintain the same level of quality it had when it started if not get even better and I see some trends that are making it go in a negative direction such as out of character moments, overuse of deus ex machina and various inconsistencies and seriously rushed episodes. I think they should have taken a bit more time with season 4 because the whole twilicorn thing kind of made them have to rush through it a bit more which is really not a good thing. Season 5 may very well be better though so I am going to see what season 4 has left and see what season 5 has to offer once it starts airing.

 

Everything you're bringing up that's supposedly unique to season 4 has been consistently plaguing the series since its inception.

 

There've always been inconsistencies.

 

There've always been rushed episodes (was not Canterlot Wedding the most rushed finale to any season ever?).

 

There've always been "OOC" moments here and there...although if you know me at all, I believe the OOC argument is a total cop-out that actually flattens the third dimension that we give these characters so much praise for.

 

As for deus ex machina...what about the EoH? Magical rainbow gems that combine to form Captain Planet? From the very first episode, I called D.E.M. on those.

 

Whether or not people want to admit it, the writing strength of this show has always undulated - yes, even during the much revered "Faustian Era". The show never, at any point, had what most people would consider a "highly cerebral plot", and to expect such convoluted storytelling out of something that's just kind of meant to be a more intelligent throwback to the original show - mixing slice-of-life stories with fantasy-adventure stories without it seeming like a 20 minute long toy commercial - well, is just silly. Really, this show's biggest crime is remaining consistent with the inconsistencies it had from the start. I think this chart explains it best:

 

 

 

Tangent: As one of the biggest Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fanboys you'll ever meet, let me just say that the original '80s show was chock full of flaws, animation errors, and a crap-ton of other oversights. Yet it still contained enough for kids and adults alike to enjoy that it is held as a classic by no minority of people. The same type of people who nitpick MLP would, I'm sure, find plenty to hate about TMNT. And that would only stand as further proof that a show's strength of writing means jack shit as long as the aspects about the show people enjoy outweigh the aspects that irritate them. As I've said before, "objectivity" is for shit in a world where most people lack the ability to dissociate their subjective opinions of something from the objective facts about that thing.

 

So at the end of the day, the title of this thread is only half relevant. It SHOULD read:

 

"It's just a TV show."

 

If you honestly dedicate good chunks of your life to stressing over what happens in that show, then you're far beyond my help.

Edited May 2, 2014 by The Thrashy One

[Red Cedar 1,408]

The truth is, a good show for kids will also be a good show for adults. There is a horribly outdated notion that kids (and worse, girls specifically) should be talked down to. Not so, and this show doesn't do that. A very positive message about friendship and working together in an age littered with stories of the effects of bullyinh doesn't hurt, either. That's why it has a large adult following.

[Shanks 10,816]

Everything you're bringing up that's supposedly unique to season 4 has been consistently plaguing the series since its inception.

I never said they were unique to season 4, I just said that they are getting worse. My expectations were low when I first started watching I will admit that but then they spiked after I found out it was a good show and then leveled off and haven't changed much since. 

 

 

Tangent: As one of the biggest Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fanboys you'll ever meet, let me just say that the original '80s show was chock full of flaws, animation errors, and a crap-ton of other oversights. Yet it still contained enough for kids and adults alike to enjoy that it is held as a classic by no minority of people.

Yes, and I am one of them I loved that show when I was a kid and still love it now and also love the 2003 reboot and like the 2012 reboot although not as much. There are some things about the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that I frankly find to be completely stupid but I still love the show, but the difference with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is that it took a bit longer for it to start to take a nose dive than with MLP but it did pick back up again after a few seasons.With MLP due to the nature of the show it has a much higher risk of no longer being a show that everyone can enjoy if it has a dip in quality so I don't think MLP and classic Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is the best comparison. I am not saying the show is doomed, far from it but I seriously think they rushed season 4 which really sets a bad precedent. I would rather wait longer and get episodes that are ironed out a bit better than to have more episodes that are rushed come out sooner. I hope the writers are taking notes for season 5 because I would rather not see these kinds of problems as pronounced in season 5.

[Forlong 1,726]

My brother tried this one on me.  I pointed out that's no reason to assume it's a poorly written show, not that he bothered to understand.  I have more ammunition, in case he decides to try again.

[Adorkable 2,737]

Lauren Faust just called that hater an ass hole, highlight of my day! xD

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

When people use the "it's just for kids" line to justify any really bad writing I like to point towards Don Bluth(the creator of movies such as All Dogs Go To Heaven) because he hated that attitude and believed kids could understand a lot more than we give them credit for as long everything wrapped up in a happy ending.  

Everything you're bringing up that's supposedly unique to season 4 has been consistently plaguing the series since its inception.

 

There've always been inconsistencies.

 

There've always been rushed episodes (was not Canterlot Wedding the most rushed finale to any season ever?).

 

There've always been "OOC" moments here and there...although if you know me at all, I believe the OOC argument is a total cop-out that actually flattens the third dimension that we give these characters so much praise for.

 

As for deus ex machina...what about the EoH? Magical rainbow gems that combine to form Captain Planet? From the very first episode, I called D.E.M. on those.

 

Whether or not people want to admit it, the writing strength of this show has always undulated - yes, even during the much revered "Faustian Era". The show never, at any point, had what most people would consider a "highly cerebral plot", and to expect such convoluted storytelling out of something that's just kind of meant to be a more intelligent throwback to the original show - mixing slice-of-life stories with fantasy-adventure stories without it seeming like a 20 minute long toy commercial - well, is just silly. Really, this show's biggest crime is remaining consistent with the inconsistencies it had from the start. I think this chart explains it best:

 

 

 

Tangent: As one of the biggest Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fanboys you'll ever meet, let me just say that the original '80s show was chock full of flaws, animation errors, and a crap-ton of other oversights. Yet it still contained enough for kids and adults alike to enjoy that it is held as a classic by no minority of people. The same type of people who nitpick MLP would, I'm sure, find plenty to hate about TMNT. And that would only stand as further proof that a show's strength of writing means jack shit as long as the aspects about the show people enjoy outweigh the aspects that irritate them. As I've said before, "objectivity" is for shit in a world where most people lack the ability to dissociate their subjective opinions of something from the objective facts about that thing.

 

So at the end of the day, the title of this thread is only half relevant. It SHOULD read:

 

"It's just a TV show."

 

If you honestly dedicate good chunks of your life to stressing over what happens in that show, then you're far beyond my help.

 

I'm honestly in the same place as you. I honesty think the show has been getting BETTER over time and people are just having picky standards.  

[Jeric 46,851]

@@Sir Wulfington,

 

I know, I was just being odd. I have a tendency to be self indulgent with my amusements.

 

In general I do defend OOC moments since characters should be portrayed with subtle complexity. BUT ...  In MLP each character is defined by specific characteristics and personalities. I've mentioned this in another topic, but I compare this to what A.A. Milne did in his stories. Owl, Pooh, Tigger, etc act within a specific defined personality and traits. MLP, like Pooh, bases most of it's character/plot development around the characters' values and flaws. OOC moments stand out more on a show like this. I completely get it.

 

The story issues you point out are likely due to the method that the team uses (common on most shows). Group writing when situation as a goal leads to inconsistency. It's one thing if you are a sole author and connect two unrelated situations together, but add multiple people ... and you can get a mess. I prefer when a writer starts with theme and character. When they do that on FIM ... they usually produce a solid episode. When they don't, you get Spike At Your Service.

[Krosp I 114]

My post was going to be much longer but kind of pried open my jaw and pulled all of the words out. 

 

I think most of the knee-jerk reactions Bronies have for the claim "it's just a kid's show" comes from the same sort of place that has them feeling the need to justify that they like Friendship is Magic. The same thing as when being asked:

 

"Why do you like a kid's show?"

 

You're put in the spotlight, having to produce an answer that satisfies someone else. You have to make it seem cool; why not go through all of the highlights of the series? You're already creating a higher standard for the show than actually exists on top of your high expectations as both a fan of the series and being a member in a fandom that has serious issues with an unwarranted sense of entitlement. 

 

So yeah. I'm going to go with Thrashy and say that the series hasn't changed from the status quo to match the fandom's ever-growing expectations of it. Which is actually kind of a bad thing for a television series.Except unfortunately...

 

It's just a kids' show.

[Megas 27,592]

Thrashy I freaking love you

 

 

"It's Just a kid's show" isn't an excuse to justify poor writing......

 

 

Buuuuuuuut when you think about it, what kind of standards does this show have?

Yes this show does have standards, but there comes a point where some people's said standards just get ridiculously stupid. Yes we all have that "thing" that bug us to no end, that we need to endlessly bitch about it(even I'm guilty of this, if it weren't evident by my constant ranting over the RD micro), but a lot of the time the fandom really likes to go overboard. Have a character act even slightly less different that normal and some fans explode, crying out "Out of Character" over every fucking minute, insignificant detail and such, and I feel the fandom has been getting worse and worse about it, especially in regards to a few characters in particular. Character does something the viewer doesn't like? "OUT OF CHARACTER!!!!!!!!!!!" "LYNCH THE FUCKER!!!!!" "EEEEVVVVVVIIIIILLLLLLL!!!!!!!!". It's almost like people are actively trying to make it harder for people to enjoy the show. The over reliance the fandom has for Brony analysts(anal) doesn't make it better either. 

 

Yes, S4 is probably my least favorite season, but that's due to personal tastes and interests rather than the show itself

 

My overall take?

It's fine to give the show standards, but goddammit, at least try to be reasonable with them. 

Edited May 3, 2014 by Megas75