Should Hasbro shy away from good characters becoming queen?

[ManaMinori 4,149]

The title and status of 'Queen' seems to get a lot of hate in all kinds of media, and evil female villains- thanks to Disney- are usually depicted as being Queen, while drilling into the minds that all little girls should strive to be princesses. This has bled into other companies and media outside of movies and tv. However, one thing that many people in this fandom (at least those who are familiar with past generations of MLP) seem to forget is that there was a point in time where Hasbro didn't tread the path of Disney, and has some of its good characters wanting to become Queen

 

The G1 princess Ponies. (Quest of the Princess Ponies parts 1-4). Not to mention, Queen Rosedust, of the Flutter ponies, also in G1. There's also mention in G4's “The crystal Empire part1”, in the detailing the history of the Crystal Empire, of there being a good Queen (the empire's very first) who established the Crystal Faire, which became the empire's most important tradition.

 

With part of the MLP's unexpected older and male fanbase shaking up stereotypes, should Hasbro do the same, and put queens in a good light, as they used to in the past? What character in MLP should ascend to Queen? (Or should a new character be introduced, as a good queen, who meets the ponies)?

Edited November 7, 2014 by Nightmare Muffin

[Visual Spectrum 1,932]

Actually, Princess Celestia and Princess Luna were originally going to be considered queens, but it was changed due to Queen sounding evil.

 

I think maybe there should be a queen of another kingdom that the Mane Six are sent to who is good. I definitely do not want any character to become queen, especially not Twilight Sparkle. 

[Jeric 46,880]

Well there is Queen Chrysalis.  

 

Seriously though, I don't see an issue with them introducing a positive role model in a queen, or even somehow elevating Celestia to that status somehow. We also don't know the time of the Saddle Arabia characters. Perhaps Amira is Queen. 

 

This Princess vs Queen argument in marketing is covered pretty well in the book "The Princess Problem" 

[Megas 28,117]

Well with Elsa being a Queen in Frozen, Disney's probably even trying to distance themselves from that mindset. I don't see why Hasbro shouldn't

[ManaMinori 4,149]

Actually, Princess Celestia and Princess Luna were originally going to be considered queens, but it was changed due to Queen sounding evil.

 

I think maybe there should be a queen of another kingdom that the Mane Six are sent to who is good. I definitely do not want any character to become queen, especially not Twilight Sparkle. 

I'm aware of that, actually.

But my points still stands that Hasbro has made good queens before, in mlp. Or at leas mentioned good ones, and even had princesses inspiring to become one

I dunno. I just think it's a good lesson to implement that not all queens are evil, and that it's not the title that makes one evil, but their actions.

that could be a start

[Silver Letter 1,832]

It's too late to change Celestia to queen but introducing a queen into the show might be a positive thing. They could do something a with queen in a new or interesting way.

[Visual Spectrum 1,932]

I'm aware of that, actually.

But my points still stands that Hasbro has made good queens before, in mlp. Or at leas mentioned good ones, and even had princesses inspiring to become one

I dunno. I just think it's a good lesson to implement that not all queens are evil, and that it's not the title that makes one evil, but their actions.

that could be a start

 

I don't think it should be that a title makes you evil. I think it should teach people that power itself is not evil. It is how it is used that can make one evil. 

 

 

Rarity and Rainbow Dash are ambitious, and that is a trait that has been considered evil for a very long time. They are still good characters. 

 

Why can't it show that power is not a bad thing when used correctly? 

[ManaMinori 4,149]

I don't think it should be that a title makes you evil. I think it should teach people that power itself is not evil. It is how it is used that can make one evil. 

 

 

Rarity and Rainbow Dash are ambitious, and that is a trait that has been considered evil for a very long time. They are still good characters. 

 

Why can't it show that power is not a bad thing when used correctly? 

absolutely

 

however, I think that you're wrong in saying that ambition is a trait considered to be evil, and this isn't true in all characters who show ambition. Like you aid, its what they do with that ambition through their actions that determines where they end up in life, and what important roles they make (or claim) for themselves.

[Visual Spectrum 1,932]

absolutely

 

however, I think that you're wrong in saying that ambition is a trait considered to be evil, and this isn't true in all characters who show ambition. Like you aid, its what they do with that ambition through their actions that determines where they end up in life, and what important roles they make (or claim) for themselves.

 

It is not evil, but it is considered by many to be evil. That is what I mean. 

[VenomTrixie 57]

I never got the whole queen translates to evil personality idea. I guess it is from the classic evil step mom queen enslaves the city/village and the brave princess must overthrow her stories. But once the princess wins she would than become queen herself lol.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Well in Disney's defense, they adapt older works from which the queen was already evil and it's not unique to them. Jadis the White Witch, The Queen of Hearts, Cersei Lannister, Hera even if you view her vengeance as unjustified.

 

Queen's being evil is, while not the oldest trope in the book, is not a new phenomenon.

 

And in Lauren's defense, she actually wanted Celestia to be queen originally but Hasbro overruled her.

[Red Cedar 1,408]

Yeah, Hasbro already shot down the idea of it being Queen Celestia, citing Disney as the reason the title of Queen is synonymous with evil, and then perpetuated it with Queen Chrysalis while Disney finally went the other way and made Elsa the Snow Queen both Queen and good in Frozen. Now, sure, to a little girl, the title of Princess sounds prettier and invokes a sense of youth compared to the title of Queen, but really, it's not all that bad to be Queen, is it?

[ManaMinori 4,149]

Yeah, Hasbro already shot down the idea of it being Queen Celestia, citing Disney as the reason the title of Queen is synonymous with evil, and then perpetuated it with Queen Chrysalis while Disney finally went the other way and made Elsa the Snow Queen both Queen and good in Frozen. Now, sure, to a little girl, the title of Princess sounds prettier and invokes a sense of youth compared to the title of Queen, but really, it's not all that bad to be Queen, is it?

well imo, it's stupid to try and copy what Disney's doing, giving a bad rep to the title of queen and all, anyway. Hasbro isn't Disney and they shouldn't be doing what Disney's doing. Especially when they're pretty much going against what they've done in the past gens (and even an episode in this gen's) MLP series, giving some good rep with the title (princess ponies wanting to be queen, Queen Rosedust of the Flutter ponies, and the first pony queen founder of the Crystal Faire), but also having some bad people being queens as well (Chrysalis and Porcina)

[Zekromic 1,054]

Yeah, it bugged me the queen=evil in this series at first, but now, I don't see the point in changing after four years of FiM

[Jeric 46,880]

Here is my $64,000 question. Why is this an important lesson? What significance could showing a positive Queen have? Surely it can be about showing kind and fair rulers as we have three (maybe four) of those right now. How would the Queen vs Princess issue fit within FiM's  framework of lessons and morality and be communicated to both the target audience? 

 

A good concept without proper execution is basically worthless in the end. 

[Phoenix Flair 332]

They should totally make Celestia a freaking Queen.  Or rather, they should have.  But they won't/can't now because it would be kinda awkward to change it and the explanation they'd have to cook up for that would probably be pretty lame.  But it's so stupid that they had to change Celestia's originally intended title of Queen just because Princess sounds prettier and more traditionally feminine and girls have been conditioned to want that title and the less powerful position that comes with it more.  I sound like a freaking SJW right now, but this seriously does piss me off a bit.  Whatev's, though.  Even if they won't say Celestia's the queen we already know who calls the shots in Equestria.

[Princess Lona 382]

I actually think that calling Celestia Princess instead of Queen was a great move even if it wasn't the original intent of the writers.

 

The Evil Queen stereotype goes back much farther than Disney (although Disney did play a big role in keeping the stereotype alive through the last century). Ruling queens (that is to say, the widows of dead kings with no male offspring) in folk tales have traditionally been shown as evil because the old cultures those tales came from were pretty sexist, so the idea of a woman with power was scary (women are irrational and have no honour, therefore a ruling woman will be evil).

 

The Princess stereotype rose up out of these same ancient sexist cultures as a way to show "good" women behaving the way good women should. As unmarried female royalty, princesses could be shown as well-intentioned heroines without having any real power because at the end of the story they end up marrying a prince. The prince becomes a ruling king and takes on all the important responsibility, leaving the citizens of the kingdom feeling confident in their noble, male ruler.

 

In more recent times princesses have taken on a more heroic and powerful role in a lot of media, but that old stereotype of the princess who has all of the "weaker" positive character traits like gentleness and patience, but none of the "stronger" positive character traits like authority and decisiveness is still quite prevalent. So prevalent in fact, that the term "princess" has come to be synonymous in everyday language with "nice but essentially useless".

 

Princess Celestia on the other hand, horse-kicks the old notion of the princess right out the palace window and into the moat. She is everything a good queen should be. She is wise, kind, a confident ruler, brave, honourable, and willing to fight first hand for her subjects. If we are talking in terms of old stereotypes, Celestia is essentially a king from the old folk tales. Of course it would make more sense for her to be called Queen rather than Princess, but I think the fact that all the characters in the show regard the word "princess" with such seriousness and authority does a lot to stamp out those old sexist cultural norms outlined above. In fact, in the MLP universe the word "princess" describes more than just the highest royalty. Since all the princesses are alicorns, "princess" describes someone who has ascended to godhood.

 

That being said, it would be cool to see a good queen in the show, now that the princess point has been made.

[BlinkZ 1,151]

It's just a title of goverment, it be like saying Prime minster is evil.   Prime minster Celestia, or Premere celestia

[Zoraxe 546]

The Nostalgia Critic made a video about this very topic a little while back.

 

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/38723-nostalgia-critic-whats-with-the-princess-hate

 

He makes good points and it really bugs me that Celestia isn't a Queen. But then again if equestria is a principality than Princess means the same thing of Queen because of different terminology. Different countries have used different titles to give their Monarchs, If Equestria was a Duchy than Celestia would be High Duchess.

 

But then again, the show makes no indication that they are using royal terminology other than the English one. I wish they would explain things oneday.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

To some, the title of "Queen" comes off as indicative of domineering and absolute power. The title "Princess" has a certain demureness and youthfulness to it that makes it much more marketable. It really boils down to how we accept the words over time.

 

MLP, however, showed a more flexible application of the word "Princess". They pretty much redefined it from a description of the youthful lady-in-waiting to an actual position of power and authority, and sharing it between four characters gives the princess in Equestria even more of a different flair than its contemporary counterparts.

[Adorkable 2,737]

I would be perfectly fine with Hasbro making Celestia and Luna queens instead of "head princesses", it would be much more fitting, don't you agree? ^^

[Zoraxe 546]

To some, the title of "Queen" comes off as indicative of domineering and absolute power. The title "Princess" has a certain demureness and youthfulness to it that makes it much more marketable. It really boils down to how we accept the words over time.

 

Yeah, the difference unfortunately stems from the perception that...

 

Princess = youthful, unmarried, no authority, desirable.

 

Queen = married and likely older, has authority, undesirable.

 

Its good that these attitudes are changing though, I am so happy Disney made a good Queen character who isn't ancient as hell.

 

MLP, however, showed a more flexible application of the word "Princess". They pretty much redefined it from a description of the youthful lady-in-waiting to an actual position of power and authority, and sharing it between four characters gives the princess in Equestria even more of a different flair than its contemporary counterparts.

 

Except they never really defined what a princess is though.

 

Actually, Princess Celestia and Princess Luna were originally going to be considered queens, but it was changed due to Queen sounding evil.

 

Actually, I think it was just Celestia who was going to be Queen, Luna would still be a princess.

 

I think t was likely the toy stores that wanted Celestia to be a Princess, and Hasbro has to listen to the toy stores. Its the same reason why Celestia toys were pink before Cadance came about to be a Pink alicorn princess. Also likely the same reason why Cadance was an Alicorn Princess in the first place.

[Celli 4,349]

I think at this point, it would be trivial and kind of pointless to add a queen into the show. Also, you should have worded that differently, maybe "Should Hasbro shy away from bad characters being queen"