S05:E13 - Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?

[ccb20yes 81]

I really enjoy episodes of any cartoon that goes into the dreams of a character 

[Pixel Stick 927]

I was thinking a bit more about this over the weekend and just wanted to mention that, in general, I still find myself going back to the first two seasons for examples of how the writing was usually much more on-point.  At that time, the series seemed a lot more innocent and slice-of-life, and most of the episodes (with a few notable exceptions) seemed to be focused more on the day-to-day issues with smaller life lessons.  Granted, they still beat us over the head with the morals, but in most cases the stories weren't rushed, they made sense, they were relatable, and they didn't require "prior knowledge" or depend on continuity.  There also wasn't a focus on fan service at the time either.

I kinda miss those days.  As the show has aged, it seems we have more of an emphasis on the larger story arcs, and the lessons and plots are more complex, and as a result we see more of these cases where there's just too much to cover in a single episode.  I think Magical Sheep is a great poster-child of that problem - the plot calls for high drama, but the drama seems ham-fisted.  It requires that we either already know about Luna's past issues or be able to fill in the details because there's not enough time to detail them in a meaningful way.  It wraps up too quickly because, again, there's not enough time.  And the presentation gets mired down by too many conflicting priorities, one of which is the obvious fan service (Flutterbat, the conjoined ponies, etc.).

I feel like this kind of episode should require the producers, writers and Hasbro execs to sit down together and figure out if they're still really meeting their goals.  Remember that at its core, MLP:FIM is (and always has been) an advertising vehicle for Hasbro's toy line, and we've seen some rather obvious places where Hasbro has stepped in and said "You need to create THIS thing so we can sell a new line" - e.g. the Rainbow Power series and the Crystal Castle play set.  While we always have and will always have to contend with that, I wonder how far out of touch with their target audience they're getting.

Don't get me wrong, I love the fan service and I think it's great that they're sending shout-outs to the Brony community periodically.  But as I said, episodes like Magical Sheep feel (to me, anyway) like symptoms of them trying too hard and losing focus.  I can't help but think that kids would be entertained by the flashy animation but confused by the overall plot, and obviously us older fans have had mixed reactions, particularly around how much projection and "filling in the gaps" each of us is willing to do.

Kinda rambly, but hopefully I've articulated my point well enough.  Thanks.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Pixel Stick
Fix a dangling quote

[The Blueberry Writer 278]

I wish Hasbro would have all the fandoms best writers, the mlp fans, and the show writers work together to make MLP 4000% cooler!!!  Theres nothing we can't do working together XD

[Number62 1,258]

On 7/27/2018 at 6:54 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

I guess it's mostly the contrast for me; without any suggestion of ongoing recovery, there's the sense that now she will sleep easily forevermore. And of course, your suggestions would help with that. What I don't know is if something like this would really lead to such peace. 

As for anything more specific, I don't want to talk out of line, as I've never had any inclination towards self-harm.  

Apparently, a follow-up wasn't an option for the writers, not that it would help this episode.

[qwerE 96]

On 7/31/2018 at 3:29 AM, Pixel Stick said:

I was thinking a bit more about this over the weekend and just wanted to mention that, in general, I still find myself going back to the first two seasons for examples of how the writing was usually much more on-point.  At that time, the series seemed a lot more innocent and slice-of-life, and most of the episodes (with a few notable exceptions) seemed to be focused more on the day-to-day issues with smaller life lessons.  Granted, they still beat us over the head with the morals, but in most cases the stories weren't rushed, they made sense, they were relatable, and they didn't require "prior knowledge" or depend on continuity.  There also wasn't a focus on fan service at the time either.

I cannot agree more. The episode itself wasn't bad, but as much as I liked this episode, I could feel that MLP:FiM is slowly deviating from what it was - an innocent show for everyone, including kids. For some reason, this episode did not feel like the MLP:FiM I knew all along. It didn't have enough jokes, and felt really serious compared to other ordinary episodes. Except for 2-parters, I belive there aren't that many episodes that try to save the whole world. These kind of complex and serious stories should be saved for 2-parters, not for the regular season.

Although this is more about the show in general than this episode, I'll write this down since the topic came out: I prefer episodes that are more relatable, but since Twilight became a princess and got her own castle, the stories have been becoming more and more serious- related to royal diplomacy or other grand things. There are less episodes about everyday life the mane 6 go through, and I wish I could get more of those.

Also, I think fan-services should be more subtle. When they are too obvious to spot, and appear too regularly, it feels as if these jokes are actually a main part of the show. If a huge part of the show is only for some people who can understand them, this indicates that the show is for some manias, rather than everyone. They can be funny, but I think the way they are presented might need a bit of a change.

[Meushell 52]

I enjoyed the episode, the insight we get about the characters from this.

Rainbow Dash’s dream was most similar to my own. It’s fun to be a hero in your dreams.

Derpy being huge was rather sad. Since this is sort of their fantasy, does that mean she often views herself as smaller and less important than everyone else. Scootaloo’s dream wings indicate that “bigger” is compensating for something. Spike basically does the same thing as Derpy.

The problem is with Luna. It’s supposed to be her episode, and it really wasn’t. I liked what we got, but I would have preferred if the episode about Luna was actually about Luna.

[bigbertha 414]

Season 5 strikes again. This episode takes the Lucy Van Pelt approach to Depression of telling them to snap out of it. Except instead of satirizing bad advice, this episode is taking that message seriously and teaching it to little kids. Garbage.

Everything else is dull. None of the mane six's dreams are particularly interesting and all of the sequences of Luna chasing the Tantabus in their dreams play out nearly identically. I used to like the final fight, but now it comes off as desperate. As if the writers knew about the issues in the episode and just shoved in as much fan service as possible. There's nothing redeemable here aside from a few jokes scattered around, though even those aren't that good.

Score: 0/10

 

[Rikifive 24,196]

I feel bad for Luna. It's pretty sad, that for few years she was punishing herself with nightmares like this

The episode was kinda boring to be honest, but in the end it wasn't that bad; I liked it.

4/5; At least Luna can finally rest in peace.  

 

[Rushing cash 836]

I loved luna here, its clear she cares about the citizens and she struggles to forgive herself, I do wish this episode came earlier like season 2 or 3 it came kinda out of nowhere. Its exactly as I originally envisioned her character so I was really happy to see it.   The dream sequences were amazing and really creative, its the only way to see princes big mac and fluterbat again, not to speak of scootaloo flying.

However the dialog felt repetitive and a bit over the top at times, but the biggest issue for me is the ending, the mane 6 said to stop feeling this way and luna just does... it doesn't work like this, its more complicated then that, the ending just felt rushed. 

Overall it was enjoyable but could have been better. 8\10    

[Truffles 2,033]

On 7/12/2015 at 7:00 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

I'll admit I'm not sure what Luna might have done pre-transformation that would have caused Equestria in general to suffer, considering that it seems to me like even Luna as Nightmare Moon did very little to interrupt the day-to-day lives of the average citizens of Equestria. But, of course, since Luna seems to be inflating her relatively minor misdeeds in her mind and feeling overly guilty about them, any pre-transformation misdeeds would be included in that.

Yeah... I'm still calling shenanigans on the part of the writers. If Luna had been causing great harm pre-transformation, she would have stated that in this episode. Instead, she only feels guilty for what she did to Equestria and the Mane 6 post-transformation. Which - amounted to nothing, really. Lol.

[Astralshy 26,953]

I love this one too.

Giving Luna more complexity by letting her deal with her past. The resolution of this episode at the end is very important and emphasis her character

Besides this mane main o.o plot there some details I like to mention

• RD's having a nightmare by singing flowers (I feel you so much RD)
• dream images of the other ponies like
• Spike riding on a noble steed
• having BigMac going Sailor Moon
• Lyra and BonBon going CatDog (this is too silly even for me .. almost)
• Luna's slippers

 

 

 

 

 

[JMTV99 1,354]

This episode is a lot of fun! The dream sequences were awesome, I really love how creative it was, and it is a really great character growth for Luna.

[Rosy Moonlight 369]

               I love you, Luna.

[phantompone1148 126]

On 2019-02-08 at 6:16 PM, bigbertha said:

Season 5 strikes again. This episode takes the Lucy Van Pelt approach to Depression of telling them to snap out of it. Except instead of satirizing bad advice, this episode is taking that message seriously and teaching it to little kids. Garbage.

think you missed the whole point of this episode, it's about self-forgiveness, not self-harm.

[Reality Check 632]

I wanna vent out my thoughts about the episode, so... here we are

I'll start off by saying this episode definitely has the best use for the concept of a dream. If you're a Luna fan, then you're obviously gonna love this episode as she's the center of the whole plot. The writers even expanded on the very idea of a dream, where you can basically become whatever you want and that what you dream can represent your personality. In fact, a lot of ponies - notably Big Mac and Fluttershy - show a new side of them through their representation of what they dream of.

Unfortunately, there's also that this episode was controversial, and for good reason. Simply put, if you're not a Luna fan, then you're less than likely to like the episode. The main lesson of this episode was self-forgiveness, but there were a lot of things about in that went against its favor. Though if there's one that stick out in my mind, it's the Tantabus itself. The reasons as to why it exist is highly questionable and Luna's explanation did not make sense in the slightest. Self-tormenting can be something that a victim of guilt could do, but this feels like they took it way too far.

This episode is highly controversial, there's no doubt about it. Aside from the animation and music, the story made no sense whatsoever and hindered from showing the message. It's unfortunate that it garnered a lot of debate from fans of the show, but there's definitely reasons from both sides they think so

[Gale Wind 82]

I did think the dream sequence part was a lot of fun. Might be able to see why it’s controversial though.

I wonder if the Brotherhooves ep makes Big Mac becoming an alicorn in the dream have a little more depth.

[Astralshy 26,953]

Well .. I watched this episode again yesterday with some good friend together. I love this episode and oh my god this Meme potential here. Im already looking for the next watch of this episode

[Iforgotmybrain 5,730]

Rewatched this tonight. I love this episode, like with any episode that has Luna playing a major part. But man I can't help but feel like there was some missed potential here because of the limited runtime. Just would've liked to see more exploration of Luna's feelings about herself, maybe make the beginning dream scene a bit longer and more in depth. And make the whole "learn to forgive yourself" theme more prominent through the whole episode instead of kinda just popping up at the end.

[TransitPony 238]

Just watched this episode on YouTube yesterday. It is the first time I've watched MLP content in a while and I love it. Luna's struggle with the Tantabus is one I can relate to alot. The episode reminded me of my struggle with OCD. I relaxed and I had a good time. I need to see the other episodes from the series. 

[Antiyonder 1,159]

YouTube upload of the episode:

[Dawnshine Wonder 153]

What sold the My Little Pony Friendship is Magic series for me is it didn't shy away from serious topics, like self harm. I can relate to that episode Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep and so can some others in the MLP community because we understand why Princess Luna would put herself through that, and as unfortunate as it was, her creation of the Tantabus to torment herself came from feeling of self blame that had built up. This doesn't make her "emo" or "edgy", she wasn't trying to put her problems on anyone else at this point, she was truly deeply hurt and needed help to overcome her mental health crisis. And for some people who criticized this episode to dismiss this issue as her attention seeking or being whiny, comes off as insensitive and abrupt. I know I'm late for this one, and I am sure many other people have brought this point up before I did.

But it needs to be said that in this show Princess Luna never was truly cured of her mental health problems either, we saw that in season 7 episode Royal Problem, she showed signs of holding onto negative energy she was never treated for, which led to a spat with her sister, which in my opinion, is one of the reasons why I think episodes in the later seasons were not very well thought out, for Princess Celestia to not address Princess Luna's mental health crisis was careless of her.

There had been examples in the later seasons where Luna's depression was still evident but she didn't like talking about them, but people who complained about Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep? episode from season 5 seem to think the opposite was the case just because of that one scene at the end where she slept peacefully, as if to say she got over her depression, ridiculous. MLP community can make comments that come out of left field sometimes.