Can Bronies write characters better than MLP staff? Spike story

[ManaMinori 4,146]

Don’t get me wrong. I’m quite pleased with what plot and worldbuilding and characterization FiM has given us, through the writers. I’m grateful that, originally under Lauren’s thoughts and ideas and direction, a professional team of writers were drawn together, to write and build this beautiful world of Gen 4 Equestria, that wouldn’t exist without concepts and characters incorporated from previous incarnations.

 

But even so, even with these professional writers fleshing out the characters and world that we’ve grown to love over the past 5 years, there still exist poor/sometime sloppy writing, sometimss rushed plot, inconsistencies, contrivances, and lack of character development/portrayal. Namely, with the star of this discussion- Spike, the dragon.

 

At times, I’m convinced that with the army of creative types in the fandom, anyone with enough adoration for the show and characters, time, knowledge of story structure, and creativity can write circles around the professionals.

 

So, if given the chance, how would YOU write future episode sypnoses for Spike? Would he get his own spinoff series, where he coulld be given center spotlight and more, likely better portrayal and development? Would he stick to the series of FiM, making tighter bonds with other ponies beyond Twilight and Rarity, and more episodes in every season? (3 or 4)

 

If he’s given a series of his own, it should focus on Spike being the knight that he dreams of being, in MLP. (A dragon knight going off on adventure and protecting a kingdom seems like an original idea, especially since dragons ae usually the bad guys) He could age a bit, no longer being around ponykind who supress his physical growth. Also, have a noble steed, as any knight should- maybe with a play on words name of one of FiM’s mane 6, even. The spinoff could be “Dragonfire Chronicles”, or “Dragon kight of Crystaia”, or something.

 

As for non spinoff episodes kept within the realm of FiM…there are just so many ideas!

 

1: As Sunbutt’s birthday approaches, the castle staff are all busy making preparations. However, when the royal baker falls ill at the last minute, Luna calls in Spike to handle making her sister’s complex cake. To his horror, the kitchen isn’t stocked with any of the jewels needed to decorate the cake. A letter is sent to Rarity, asking her to use her gem finding spell to get the jewels on the list, and get them to Canterlot in time. Can Rarity employ the help of the diamond dogs, and her spell, while Spike fights panic and pressures to complete the cake, before the party?

 

2:(Combining Zecora and Spike’s origin story.) Spike visits Zecora, wanting to know more about her, and while Zecora looks for her family photo album, a book with blank pages falls off her shelf, piquing his curiosity. Unexpectedly, when he accidentally sneezes on it with dragon fire, strange text begins to appear. (Book could detail his dragon clan)

 

3: the ponies of the Crystal Empire incorporate a national holiday celebrating Spike into their tradition. Spike is the guest of honor, but he soon discovers the ponies want him to take up permanent residence in the Empire, and he has to weigh his options and decide his future.

 

4: spike, Apple Jack, and Pinkie engage in a cook-off to settle a disagreement. As they fall prey to anger and sabotaging each other, can the magic of friendship bring things to a peaceful end?

 

5: Spike has insecurities about his purpose in relation to Twilight, now that she’s a princess and doesn’t need him as a voice of reason/ assistant as much as before. Bottling these feeling up, he walks through the castle, remminiscing on how far Twilight has come with her friends. (Maybe he’s given a song. Who is that dragon I see, staring straight back at me….) He wants to tell Twi his concerns, but she’s called away by the cutie map, at that time. After she leaves, Spike looks at the map, wondering if his destiny is mapped out, like the pony’s. Crying himself to sleep on the map, Luna arrives in his dreams, highlighting his fears and concerns as to where he really fits in with Twi and her friends anymore, what he’s needed for. Waking up, he struggles to interpret Luna’s cryptic message, and wanders into the Everfree forest, standing at the Tree of Harmony, looking at Twilight’s cutie mark on it, in envy/sadness. Poison joke imitate Dragon Sneeze plants, causing Spike to sneeze on the ToH, scorching it with his dragon fire, and discovering something odd beneath the charred bark, that gives the answer he seeks.

 

6: Spike is invited to a rare rock and gem exhibit by Pinkie aand Maude. Shortly after arrival, alarms go off. Museum management accuse Spike of stealing and eating one of the gems on display. In attempt to clear his name, he hunts down the real jewel theif, and comes face to face with a female dragon.

 

There’s just so much untapped potential for episodes with Spike! Especially with him as the main focus, where his positive qualities get go shime. But there’s also a plethora of team episodes for him: spike with Flim and Flam, Spike with CMC, Spike with Fluttershy, or Little Strongheart, or Rainbow Dash, pinke, Maude, Pound and Pumpkin cake, the CMC, Sunbutt or Luna, Shining Armor, Granny Smith, Big Mac. Doughnut Joe, The possibilities are endless.

 

Share a synopsis for a potential episode featuring Spike.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[CastletonSnob 3,079]

Who else is in need of development?

[Malinter 3,064]

i'd say not really. The only reason a brony could write a better Spike story is because unlike the writers, they don't have a large toy making corperation with its boot over their hands. XD

[Mesme Rize 15,687]

It's like in a sports forum, or in a pub meeting with sports fans. Anybody thinks, that they can coach the team better then coach himself, eventhough they didn't go to coach school for years.

 

It's okay to criticize the writers, but you should never question the integrity of them, because they actually went to film school for years.

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

hahhaha well Maybe if the Fan fiction community was interested in writing about anyone other than Twilight,and the Princesses and to a much lesser extent Rainbow Dash they could.......


Seriously going by the fan fiction that exist, if the fandom got it's hands on the show it really WOULD be the Twilight show and Fluttershy, Pinkie, Rarity and Applejack would just be borderline non-existent. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by M'gann M'orzz

[CastletonSnob 3,079]

I guess Spike won't be developed in S6.

[Swifty 249]

Who else is in need of development?

Celestia. The only princess you actually don't know anything from. Not surprising, when she has been only a quest giver and in the background saying Hello and Congratulations, unlike the others.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Swifty

[Mesme Rize 15,687]

hahhaha well Maybe if the Fan fiction community was interested in writing about anyone other than Twilight,and the Princesses and to a much lesser extent Rainbow Dash they could.......

 

 

Seriously going by the fan fiction that exist, if the fandom got it's hands on the show it really WOULD be the Twilight show and Fluttershy, Pinkie, Rarity and Applejack would just be borderline non-existent. 

 

Might be a bit off-topic, but i seriously lost my interests in fanfics over the last year, because i barely see any quality stuff anymore. When i look at the most read fics of the day on Fimfiction, it's mostly just clopfics.

 

Bronies kinda lose their writing abilities these days.

[CastletonSnob 3,079]

Could Shining get development?

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

Might be a bit off-topic, but i seriously lost my interests in fanfics over the last year, because i barely see any quality stuff anymore. When i look at the most read fics of the day on Fimfiction, it's mostly just clopfics.

 

Bronies kinda lose their writing abilities these days.

Well see, you notice a lot more clop fic now for the same reason you notice more clop art on Derpibooru: Clop actually HAS NOT gone up in number, it's that NOT CLOP went down after the peak of the fandom in 2012-2013. While Clop remained steady. I hate that fact but that's the way it is. Average Good to Shit ratio is about the same as ever, meaning a lot more shit than good, but since there's a bit less of it you see the good stuff less.

 

 

As for me, Iv lost a lot of interest because frankly outside of a few select fics, the fandom has never been that creative, it's always been the same damn characters and ignoring over half the main cast. Seriously Twilight has more fic than Pinks, Flutters, Rara and AJ combined! the Princesses are close to that level of dominance too. It all feels very lazy to me, especially when it's an adventure story. It's obviously a lot easier to write an adventure story with Twilight or Dash because they have incredible physical abilites. But that also makes it less interesting to me usually. I want to see grand stories with say Rarity or Fluttershy as the hero, someone who doesn't have these overwhelming abilities yet we know have heroic spirits all the same. Also the fic section of the fandom could use more simple and heartwarming stories, and slice of life stuff, you know things the show might actually do.

 

Freaking Sunset Shimmer, who I admit I do really like gets more fic than most of the Not-Twlight Mane 6 these days too. If you aren't OP fic writers just don't got interest in you

Edited October 14, 2015 by M'gann M'orzz

[ManaMinori 4,146]

Could Shining get development?

yes, but Spike should get more development first.

[CastletonSnob 3,079]

yes, but Spike should get more development first.

Could Shining get it in Saturday's episode? It looks like it'll mostly be about Pinkie.

[Mesme Rize 15,687]

Well see, you notice a lot more clop fic now for the same reason you notice more clop art on Derpibooru: Clop actually HAS NOT gone up in number, it's that NOT CLOP went down after the peak of the fandom in 2012-2013. While Clop remained steady. I hate that fact but that's the way it is. Average Good to Shit ratio is about the same as ever, meaning a lot more shit than good, but since there's a bit less of it you see the good stuff less.

 

 

As for me, Iv lost a lot of interest because frankly outside of a few select fics, the fandom has never been that creative, it's always been the same damn characters and ignoring over half the main cast. Seriously Twilight has more fic than Pinks, Flutters, Rara and AJ combined! the Princesses are close to that level of dominance too. It all feels very lazy to me, especially when it's an adventure story. It's obviously a lot easier to write an adventure story with Twilight or Dash because they have incredible physical abilites. But that also makes it less interesting to me usually. I want to see grand stories with say Rarity or Fluttershy as the hero, someone who doesn't have these overwhelming abilities yet we know have heroic spirits all the same. Also the fic section of the fandom could use more simple and heartwarming stories, and slice of life stuff, you know things the show might actually do.

 

Freaking Sunset Shimmer, who I admit I do really like gets more fic than most of the Not-Twlight Mane 6 these days too. If you aren't OP fic writers just don't got interest in you

 

Well, i don't really have a problem with cloppers, but that's another story.

 

I never was that interested in adventure stories, except for a very select few. But i love me some Slice of Life stories and just like you said, there is not enough of them. I see epic pony wars, or fights to the death, etc. things that don't really feel like MLP. You could make these stories with any other universe.

 

And as a Twilight fan, i have to agree with you. Twilight is everywhere on Fimfiction. Why not more AJ? I think AJ has so much potential as a fanfic character, with all of her family business and past and what not.

[ManaMinori 4,146]

Could Shining get it in Saturday's episode? It looks like it'll mostly be about Pinkie.

I don't know. We'll find out soon enough. But this topic is about Spike....

[FrozenSpark 47]

Why everyone picks on Spike ? leave the baby dragon alone !

[SFyr 1,982]

@@Nightmare Muffin, I think there's a slight issue with this comparison, being that writing good fanfiction isn't quite comparable to writing good tv show scripts.  It's apples and oranges in such a huge way. You might as well compare gamers to game devs, sculptors to plushie makers, and news anchors to historians. They have similarities, but their skill set and actual work is so incredibly different. It just doesn't translate.

 

As for the fleshing out bit... it's honestly a ton easier to add more events, character moments, and make revisions when writing a story, rather than in a tv script. One person can create a sizable new chapter over the course of a day if they're driven, yet it could take a whole group of talented people weeks to months to create a sizable episode. It's the book vs movie argument of, why did the book have so much more?

Quite simply, you have to cut things down to fit the constraints of a movie. Pacing, expression, and how scenes or emotions are portrayed is completely different. Plus, you have additional elements, such as lighting/shadow, view angles, backgrounds, and non-focus details that all are now vital to get a final product. 

 

I dunno. I think there's a lot of ideas that sound good in theory, that shines in brony author's works, but transferring it to tv would just break that apart and make for a lackluster episode.  Yes, there is a lot of untapped potential for characters like Spike, but one of the issues of writing for TV is you have to focus your efforts on what is most solid or what efficiently and effectively meets your vision. Spinoffs or tangents can be costly.

Edited October 14, 2015 by SFyr

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

I never really understood that mentality of fans doing better than show staff. It comes off as a loaded term that sounds arrogant. If someone were to say they could write better than the show writers, they would have to write their own episode keeping within the rules of the show (So there goes most of the stories on Fimfiction) while still having the charm and feel of the show. I've never really seen any instance of fanfiction where the writing was better than the show. Most of the fanfiction I read either tries too hard too be dark and edgy or is just full of forced romantic relationships with characters who have sometimes never even interacted. I kind of expect that because the writers of the show are professional writers while fanfiction is a commonly used tactic to learn the basics of writing.

 

So whenever someone says they could write better than the show staff, I'm like, "Okay, prove it."

[ManaMinori 4,146]

Why everyone picks on Spike ? leave the baby dragon alone !

where in this thread is anyone picking on him?

[[NULL] 907]

Hahaha! Bronies writing interesting characters. Good one!

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

To put "bronies" and "show staff" together is very generalizing. I'm sure there are people in this fandom who would and could write better than the staff in some cases, and then there are those that just have good ideas, some examples being how fandom theorists have come up with every possible plan to write Spike better than they're doing now, or how X episode could have been done better.

 

However, there are a number of variables at play. How many people in this fandom can fit these criteria?

 

• Write a properly-formatted script.
• Collaborate with story editors and other writers when necessary.
• Follow corporate guidelines as far as content.
• Follow established rules regarding the show as well as Lauren Faust's original pitch bible.
• Make it fit 22 minutes with a clear three-act structure.
• Properly implement a moral.
• Most importantly, finish the story on time.

In addition, although we have a general idea, no one knows exactly why some choices are made and others not. That could be subject to any number of reasons from corporate mandates to the bigger picture regarding the show's marketing and future appeal.

 

We can't automatically assume that just because one has a good idea, one could become a writer on the show, much less one on MA Larson's level.

 

In the particular case of this show and many others like it, social connections are also important. Most of the writers knew each other beforehand. The core writers particularly (Larson, AKR, Morrow, etc) all knew Lauren Faust and others when they all worked at Cartoon Network. And as much as many would like to think that then-15-year-old Teddy Antonio, co-writer of "Keep Calm and Flutter On", was a Promoted Fanboy, the fact was he was connected to Meghan McCarthy by his parents, also TV writers. Anyone else would have been passed up for that job.

 

It's like in a sports forum, or in a pub meeting with sports fans. Anybody thinks, that they can coach the team better then coach himself, eventhough they didn't go to coach school for years.

 

It's okay to criticize the writers, but you should never question the integrity of them, because they actually went to film school for years.

Just because you went to school doesn't automatically mean you know more or better than those who didn't. Just ask Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill creator Mike Judge, probably the most successful self-taught man in the industry, who has launched a heck of a career in his own right. As someone who only took a couple of formal classes in media, he's someone I definitely look up to.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Wind Chaser

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

Well, i don't really have a problem with cloppers, but that's another story.

 

I never was that interested in adventure stories, except for a very select few. But i love me some Slice of Life stories and just like you said, there is not enough of them. I see epic pony wars, or fights to the death, etc. things that don't really feel like MLP. You could make these stories with any other universe.

 

And as a Twilight fan, i have to agree with you. Twilight is everywhere on Fimfiction. Why not more AJ? I think AJ has so much potential as a fanfic character, with all of her family business and past and what not.

 

Yeah I prefer Slice of Life stuff too, I just mentioned Rarity and Fluttershy Adventure stories because being that those are the two main characters probably most seperate from the "traditional adventure protagonist" or whatever that it would force the writer to be more creative and ultimately offer a more unique adventure story. And yeah I tend to dislike grimdark stuff, every series has it's own context and when you stray too far from that it feels weird and frequently forced or tryhard.

 

There's days where Twilight is literally the entire featured box, it's really weird. I know she tends to top most popularity polls but never by such a margin that would make you think she'd be THAT dominant. Yeah Apple family past stories are surprisingly rare considering how much the fandom talks about them, as are Rarity and her parents stories, which is weird since we actually KNOW how different they are from her, from their one brief apperance which should make for plenty of ideas.

[Jeric 46,866]

While I have no doubt that there is some talent in the fandom that could write a quality FiM script (Spike centric or otherwise), that is attributed to the rule of averages and not the overall quality of the fandom's authorial prowess.

 

Seriously. A good idea does not a good script make.

[ManaMinori 4,146]

To put "bronies" and "show staff" together is very generalizing. I'm sure there are people in this fandom who would and could write better than the staff in some cases, and then there are those that just have good ideas, some examples being how fandom theorists have come up with every possible plan to write Spike better than they're doing now, or how X episode could have been done better.

 

However, there are a number of variables at play. How many people in this fandom can fit these criteria?

 

 

• Write a properly-formatted script.
• Collaborate with story editors and other writers when necessary.
• Follow corporate guidelines as far as content.
• Follow established rules regarding the show as well as Lauren Faust's original pitch bible.
• Make it fit 22 minutes with a clear three-act structure.
• Properly implement a moral.
• Most importantly, finish the story on time.

In addition, although we have a general idea, no one knows exactly why some choices are made and others not. That could be subject to any number of reasons from corporate mandates to the bigger picture regarding the show's marketing and future appeal.

 

We can't automatically assume that just because one has a good idea, one could become a writer on the show, much less one on MA Larson's level.

 

In the particular case of this show and many others like it, social connections are also important. Most of the writers knew each other beforehand. The core writers particularly (Larson, AKR, Morrow, etc) all knew Lauren Faust and others when they all worked at Cartoon Network. And as much as many would like to think that then-15-year-old Teddy Antonio, co-writer of "Keep Calm and Flutter On", was a Promoted Fanboy, the fact was he was connected to Meghan McCarthy by his parents, also TV writers. Anyone else would have been passed up for that job.

 

 

Just because you went to school doesn't automatically mean you know more or better than those who didn't. Just ask Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill creator Mike Judge, probably the most successful self-taught man in the industry, who has launched a heck of a career in his own right. As someone who only took a couple of formal classes in media, he's someone I definitely look up to.

I get that there's, naturally, criteria to meet, which a lot of the writers in the fandom- not necessarily limited to fan fiction, since there's also writers for fan made animations, too, can't meet. But what I was getting at was the fandom knowing how to use Spike better than the writers do. We WANT more development for the little guy, and when push comes to shove, any of the creatives on the fandom can write him with a greater purpose than just having him be a buttmonkey that's just there for comedic relief at the expense of characterization and growth.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,892]

Could bronies write Spike better? Maybe. Could they write him better in the exact same circumstances that the show writers have? Definitely not. 

[CastletonSnob 3,079]

But I guess he won't get any development.