How did Diamond Tiara get her cutie mark if she did not understand it?

[FrozenSpark 47]

I thought ponies get their cutie mark when they know who they are and understand their special talent.

Edited October 16, 2015 by FrozenSpark

[PROJECT: Simon 3,955]

She understood, it's just they're making fun of.. CMC when they didn't get their cutie mark <3 

[Mentis Soliloquy 3,027]

maybe she thought that she did, enough so that she got hers and the CMC helped here understand her marks true meaning? 

 

food for thought.

[cider float 2,539]

It's called bad writing. What she really learned was that she learned how to make her life easier using her talent.

[Lexamena 391]

I think it's one of those things we are not supposed to think about. She was just drawn that way and perhaps the writers never originally intended to bring her out of obscurity.

[Snake 516]

Think back to Troubleshoes Clyde. He didn't understand his either. It's not unheard of!

[Marimo 555]

She did understand what her cutie mark meant.

 

Obviously I've known since I got my cutie mark that my talent is getting other ponies to do what I want.

 

The problem was she didn't know how to use it in a way that's helpful to others.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Marimo

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,894]

I think she understood what her Cutie Mark meant, she said that she always knew her special talent was getting others to do what she wanted, BUT, she did not see any positive of that before, she was always too afraid to use it for a very positive effect so that probably is what brought her down, when she thought that there was no positive gain from it, only bad manipulation. 

[Partialgeek514 5,011]

I think her cutie mark means that she's good at persuasion or leadership. She could have discovered this even if she didn't know how to use that talent in a good way. Her reformation seems to almost be a renewal of her cutie mark since she learns how to use her talent to make her and others happy.

[Fhaolan 4,484]

There's also the idea that you can have all the facts, and still come to the wrong conclusion because of additional assumptions you have.

 

Using Diamond Tiara as an example, she states her cutie mark was to 'get ponies to do what she wants'. She interpreted that to mean her destiny was to be a manipulator, a bully, and so on, because with the role model of her mother that's what she assumed was correct. And that was causing her distress and frustration as it *seemed* like a correct interpretation, but something about it was wrong. She just didn't know how, and reached the same conclusion as Troubleshoes did; that the cutie mark was the thing that was bad. The idea that she could misinterpret a cutie mark just doesn't seem to occur in this society.

 

It's only when she realized that it also meant being a Leader, and didn't require the bullying at all, that she felt she really understood what her cutie mark meant. She found the assumption she had made, and dropped it.

[Simon 4,557]

 

 

I think she understood what her Cutie Mark meant, she said that she always knew her special talent was getting others to do what she wanted, BUT, she did not see any positive of that before, she was always too afraid to use it for a very positive effect so that probably is what brought her down, when she thought that there was no positive gain from it, only bad manipulation. 

 

^That.

 

Best way to explain Diamond Tiara is with a real world example... Frank Abagnale Jr.  Frank Abagnale was a criminal who was extraordinarily talented at fraud, impersonation, and counterfeiting checks.  One of his most well known cons was the creation of a fake identity as a pilot for Pan Am.  He not only used that identity to counterfeit paychecks from the airline, but since pilots were allowed to fly and stay at hotels for free, he also conned the airline out of hundreds of free vacations.

 

The reason I tell you about this person is because of what he's doing now... he became one of the world's leading security consultants, running his own security consultant firm and serving as a consultant and lecturer for the FBI academy.  He understood his talents at these sorts of crimes, but it wasn't until later when he realized the implications his actions had that he used those talents for a positive purpose instead of negative.

 

Diamond Tiara  was in a similar situation.  She knew her talent was getting others to do what she wanted, but took that as a license to manipulate others for self-gain.  She wasn't happy with who she was but didn't understand how she could be a better pony with that cutie mark.  Combined with her mother's manipulations and negativity, she took her cutie mark as a license to hurt and manipulate others for her own interests, despite wishing that she could find a way to be better than that.  She understood the cutie mark, just not what she could do with it to help others instead of hurt them.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,894]

^That.

 

Best way to explain Diamond Tiara is with a real world example... Frank Abagnale Jr.  Frank Abagnale was a criminal who was extraordinarily talented at fraud, impersonation, and counterfeiting checks.  One of his most well known cons was the creation of a fake identity as a pilot for Pan Am.  He not only used that identity to counterfeit paychecks from the airline, but since pilots were allowed to fly and stay at hotels for free, he also conned the airline out of hundreds of free vacations.

 

The reason I tell you about this person is because of what he's doing now... he became one of the world's leading security consultants, running his own security consultant firm and serving as a consultant and lecturer for the FBI academy.  He understood his talents at these sorts of crimes, but it wasn't until later when he realized the implications his actions had that he used those talents for a positive purpose instead of negative.

 

Diamond Tiara  was in a similar situation.  She knew her talent was getting others to do what she wanted, but took that as a license to manipulate others for self-gain.  She wasn't happy with who she was but didn't understand how she could be a better pony with that cutie mark.  Combined with her mother's manipulations and negativity, she took her cutie mark as a license to hurt and manipulate others for her own interests, despite wishing that she could find a way to be better than that.  She understood the cutie mark, just not what she could do with it to help others instead of hurt them.

And here comes Simon, taking my explanation and making it a million times better. XD Kudos though, you summed it up better than me I think. It is weird how that one episode can make me go from 'meh' about Diamond to absolutely loving her. :3 Seeing her find herself more and accept herself, that made me incredibly happy. 

[Silver Stream. 708]

While the episode entirely wasn't very good in my opinion. I have to agree with most of everything that was expressed throughout the discussion with DT simply misinterpreting how to use her talents despite knowing what her talent was. Actually, I wouldn't really call it a talent....maybe a given purpose in her life that could leave an impact on those around her. After all, talent seems to be only a small factor when it comes to getting your cutiemark anyways which we can confirm from the CMC since they've displayed many talents throughout the series but only received their cutiemark when they discovered what good they could do for others and how to do it together. 

[ManaMinori 4,146]

It's called bad writing. What she really learned was that she learned how to make her life easier using her talent.

not in this case it's not

 

She understood that her skills best lie in getting what she wanted all the time, but at the time she got it, was very likely after being a spoiled brat or through manipulation. CMC showed her that there are other ways to getting others to do what you want, and thaf was by befriending and being nice to them, and then ponies would want to help an do as she asked. DT was only seeing one side of her mark.

[Malinter 3,064]

Its actually been brought up a few times in the show of ponies getting marks they wouldn't like or ones they couldn't understand. The CMC were even giving themselves nightmares from worrying about it so much.

 

Also given how fate woven cutie marks and the magic that governs them seems to be, one could say she got her cutie mark earlier than she should have knowning that she would one day be guilded by it to find ponies that would make her understand it. Which kind of makes sense as Troubleshoes was also going against what his cutie mark meant until by chance he met the CMC. I'm getting some weird Cutie Mark telepathy vibe here. Especially given the CMC's new status and their near identical cutie marks XD 

Edited October 16, 2015 by Malinter

[cider float 2,539]

not in this case it's not

 

She understood that her skills best lie in getting what she wanted all the time, but at the time she got it, was very likely after being a spoiled brat or through manipulation. CMC showed her that there are other ways to getting others to do what you want, and thaf was by befriending and being nice to them, and then ponies would want to help an do as she asked. DT was only seeing one side of her mark.

Was she befriending her mother by telling her go and use your money to fund my schoolyard? Sounds pretty damn spoiled and manipulative to me. 

[Yufery 205]

As everyone else said, she understood what it was, but didn't know how to use it properly.

 

Same could go back to 'Appleloosa's Most Wanted'. Trouble Shoes thought his cutie mark meant bad luck, but in reality it meant that he was just a clumsy guy who could make people laugh with it. He still understood what it meant in a nutshell though, that he inevitably would just mess up a bunch, but he pinned it on his cutie mark meaning bad luck, and didn't understand he could use it for good.

 

Same case here, DT thought it meant she should manipulate, but instead she realized she could use it for good rather than bad.

[TubeSock2018 325]

I personally like how season 5 has tweaked the CM rules.

Makes things more interesting and realistic.

 

Getting a CM and having your whole life purpose figured out is way too froo foo fruity cakes happy land for my liking. I like to see characters like Diamond Tiara struggle with misinterpretation of their destinies.

 

Kind of like this one movie I saw where an old man comes out as gay a couple years before he dies despite having had been married and has kids. I believe even till our last years, we can discover something new about ourselves and who we really are. In the film, he claims he had known he was gay all along, but he was living a lie. It wasn't until near his death that he understood who he should really be.

 

Same goes for Trouble Shoes. He may have gotten his CM, but misinterpreted what it meant even though in hindsight, it was as clear as rain.

 

That, to me, is what living is all about.

 

So I consider season 5's treatment of cutie marks as being a retcon of the original concept.

Where you can get a cutie mark and misinterpret it in an understandable way whereas before it was suggested that getting a cutie mar meant you finally understood what your special talent is.

That was a nice concept, but I find the concept of misinterpreted CMs more interesting and providing more depth for discussion. It gives it a better balance of destiny and free will to shape that destiny vs before you knew no matter what you did, as long as you followed your CM, you'd be fine because at the very least, you knew you were doing what you were meant to do.

Edited October 17, 2015 by pollo20x6

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@@FrozenSpark,

 

Well according to her she "always knew" her special talent was "getting ponies to do what I wanted them to do." The song though heavily hints that her mother made her life Hell if she ever showed an ounce of respect to anyone not herself. So it was less that she didn't know what her cutie mark meant as much as it was her being made into a negative version of it, lacking control in her life, the fact that she knew who and what she wanted to be but was never told how to do that or that such was wrong.

 

Listen carefully to these three songs and they contain the answer.

 

 

[MLPFanatic34 3,235]

She understood what her talent was she just didn't realize there was a better way to use her talent compared to being a bossy you know what.

[ShadOBabe 19,013]

Was she befriending her mother by telling her go and use your money to fund my schoolyard? Sounds pretty damn spoiled and manipulative to me. 

 

Her mother is emotionally abusive and a horrid mare, and her father has got PLENTY of funds.

So yeah, her mom deserved it and her dad will be fine. He's probably spent more than that playground equipment cost on large parties. Just have one less party a year, and bam, he's got his cash back.

Edited October 17, 2015 by ShadOBabe

[cider float 2,539]

Her mother is emotionally abusive and a horrid mare, and her father has got PLENTY of funds.

So yeah, her mom deserved it and her dad will be fine. He's probably spent more than that playground equipment cost on large parties. Just have one less party a year, and bam, he's got his cash back.

She wasn't really abusive Diamond Tiara just couldn't speak up her mind. Parents should be strict and expect the best out of their children

[ShadOBabe 19,013]

She wasn't really abusive Diamond Tiara just couldn't speak up her mind. Parents should be strict and expect the best out of their children

 

It's hard to speak your mind when you've been emotionally manipulated your whole life.

No, there's a difference here. Her mom didn't want what was best for Diamond. She wanted what was best for herself.

[cider float 2,539]

It's hard to speak your mind when you've been emotionally manipulated your whole life.

No, there's a difference here. Her mom didn't want what was best for Diamond. She wanted what was best for herself.

She's not being manipulated she's being parented. Big difference. 

 

And that selfishness of her mother of wanting the best for herself is what leads her to rear her young. Would it just been better if Diamond Tiara's mother toss her out for being a spoiled useless brat?

[ShadOBabe 19,013]

She's not being manipulated she's being parented. Big difference. 

 

And that selfishness of her mother of wanting the best for herself is what leads her to rear her young. Would it just been better if Diamond Tiara's mother toss her out for being a spoiled useless brat?

 

So you're saying that imprinting on your child that she is superior to other ponies because she has more money is a good thing? That she can't speak to other children because they are "beneath her"? That putting down of other children for being "blank flanks" is appropriate behavior? She's a friggin' adult and she's calling these little girls that? That's like a 30 something year old lady from our world making fun of a preteen for not hitting puberty quickly.

 

But I'm not going to argue with you Cider.

You never consider alternate ways of thinking in the exchange of ideas and I think you like being a contrarian for the luls.

Edited October 17, 2015 by ShadOBabe