That argument: It's a show for children stop being so serious

[cider float 2,538]

So today I want to talk about this kind of conversation that is used quite often. Someone always uses this as a defense "It's a children's show stop being so serious, get over it."

 

Well... what is one of the prevalent reasons adult men started liking My Little Pony? It's not for the simple plot and children entertainment... it's for a vivid and good story with writing that is watchable for adults. Not written for preschoolers but for something even adults. And bronies are adults that appreciate it for going even beyond the normalcy of children's cartoon. 

 

Yet this argument is attempted to reconciliate a complaint on the writing? Why?

[Silver Stream. 708]

So today I want to talk about this kind of conversation that is used quite often. Someone always uses this as a defense "It's a children's show stop being so serious, get over it."

 

Well... what is one of the prevalent reasons adult men started liking My Little Pony? It's not for the simple plot and children entertainment... it's for a vivid and good story with writing that is watchable for adults. Not written for preschoolers but for something even adults. And bronies are adults that appreciate it for going even beyond the normalcy of children's cartoon.

 

Yet this argument is attempted to reconciliate a complaint on the writing? Why?

I too believe the show wasn't written for preschoolers....but it is still deemed a kid's show for preteens. That was the intended target after all....the target wasn't adults to begin with. That's why the world was shocked at how many viewers were adult males. Because the show surpassed just a "kids quality" show. But that doesn't mean the show is made exclusively for adults....because it's not.

 

I don't always play that "it's a kids show" card,.but I wouldn't blame anyone who did.

 

If a person is harshly criticising a show to the extremes, I believe they need to be reminded that it IS a kids show. It's okay to point out plot holes...it's okay to be annoyed and say something could have been written better...but whenever someone set super high expectations on a show, that's when I personally think reminders are needed.exclusively

 

At times, there are adult references sprinkled here and there....but that's as close to an official "adult cartoon" we will get out of MLP.

 

Besides, didn't you say not too long ago that Season 5 was "for kids"? Or something along those lines?

Edited October 26, 2015 by Princess Sunset

[cider float 2,538]

I too believe the show wasn't written for preschoolers....but it is still deemed a kid's show for preteens. That was the intended target after all....the target wasn't adults to begin with. That's why the world was shocked at how many viewers were adult males. Because the show surpassed just a "kids quality" show. But that doesn't mean the show is intetuinally for adults....because it's not.

 

I don't always play that "it's a kids show" card,.but I wouldn't blame anyone who did.

 

If a person is harshly criticising a show to the extremes, I believe they need to be reminded that it IS a kids show. It's okay to point out plot holes...it's okay to be annoyed and say something could have been written better...but whenever someone set super high expectations on a show, that's when I personally think reminders are needed.

People that use that argument are usually talking about how they have a problem with others looking too much into the details and that their case is understandable because they do have high hopes for the show that has sparked an interest upon their adult minds.

[PROJECT: Simon 3,955]

We love it because we love it C:

[1111 1,284]

The reason I liked the show is it wasn't written for preschoolers but it was only for preteens at most, but that isn't much things are going to be over looked because its good enough for them. Its just a kids show because its not for adults who care, just adults do.

[Goat-kun 2,530]

In games, there is the usual response that is meant to shut down all negative debates: Game is fine, L2P noob. It is mostly used by trolls and idiots who’ve invested too much time into the game.

 

In here, L2P is substituted by the “4kids” argument. It’s easy, it’s free, and you don’t have to use your brains to debunk your fellow poster.

[1111 1,284]

We should really make a census asking what age you are, and how much you liked a  episode, and how well made it was.

[Megas 27,786]

Well, when you're overreacting over every minor, insignificant detail or every little gag.....

Edited October 26, 2015 by ChicksDigGiantRobots

[PROJECT: Simon 3,955]

Well, when you're overreacting over every minor, insignificant detail or every little gag.....

You, you have my respect..

[Catpone Cerberus 23,670]

''You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway.''

-Walt Disney

Edited October 26, 2015 by The Cerberus

[[NULL] 906]

Well, when you're overreacting over every minor, insignificant detail or every little gag.....

You know something's wrong when Gravity Falls isn't this heavily analyzed.

Edited October 26, 2015 by SpaceOnion

[chirox the pony 1,336]

It's not the fact that people take it seriously that's the problem. Yes the characters are 3-dimensional. But when people come up with these big complicated theories that they genuinely expect to be used within the show then you're clearly not taking into account the fact that they still have young children who watch this show who may not be able to follow all of it. And some of the concepts people come up with would just never get past TV censors. 

[Guest]

Sometimes that argument is perfectly valid because some bronies take their analysis of the show waaaaaaaaaaay too far. They read into shit that is clearly not there and complain about shit that would not even be put in the show in the first place. I have seen people argue the dumbest things and bitch about the most petty crap. Sometimes literally the only thing that CAN be said is in fact: "It's a children's cartoon".

[J. Brony 313]

Sometimes that argument is perfectly valid because some bronies take their analysis of the show waaaaaaaaaaay too far. They read into shit that is clearly not there and complain about shit that would not even be put in the show in the first place. I have seen people argue the dumbest things and bitch about the most petty crap. Sometimes literally the only thing that CAN be said is in fact: "It's a children's cartoon".

 

Exactly.

 

Coming up with theories and comparing headcanon is healthy activity for a fandom.  But some people get way too defensive about their material and, next thing you know, you're embroiled in a bitter flamewar over some ridiculous notion or another.  I mean, if your headcanon really means that much to you, go write a fanfic or something. 

[Will Guide 21,362]

 

''You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway.''

-Walt Disney

 

 

You beat me to the post, but I totally agree with you!

 

There's a reason Walt Disney's quote is the page quote for "Periphery Demographic" on TV Tropes!

 

Heck, to quote the Western Animation Page for "Periphery Demographic": "My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic is THE biggest example of this phenomenon today. A show about magical cartoon ponies that go on adventures and learn about friendship has more teenaged and adult fans than child fans."

[Trixie Heartstrings 434]

That's an argument I've felt was ridiculous. "It's for kids" is an argument that doesn't really hold ground. Basically, it's saying that just because it's aimed at kids, you shouldn't expect any quality from it. Next time you have a conversation, try saying, "I don't care about the quality as long as it's targeted towards children," and tell me where that gets you. If anything, you come off as condescending by saying that kids can't handle anything with quality. Even though a child's brain isn't fully developed, never underestimate a kid's thinking ability.

[TubeSock2018 325]

There's a balance, though. 

 

On the one hand, yes, respect the intelligence of kids. Airing the show Caillou and defending it on the grounds of "it's just a kid's show" is a terrible defense considering that the show often presents Caillou acting like a brat and getting away with it (Caillou joins the Circus).

 

A show like MLP G3, which presents a world where everything is perfect and only trivial problems happen is also damaging to little girls because it presents a limited window of what it is to be a girl.

 

Compare that to G4, which has a diverse cast of stereotype characters that allow girls to see that "hey, you can be into fashion and you can be into sports. You can be into hard labor or you can be a bookworm nerd".

The cast of G4 breaks the cliches that were so prevalent in previous little girl animations.

 

To defend G3 with "it's just a little kids show" does not cut it because G4 is also "just a show for little kids" and it does it in a much more healthy and constructive manner.

 

So that's what it comes down to. What we're showing kids, is it bad for them? Good for them? Can they take something meaningful out of it and what more can be done? Lauren Faust answered the latter question by expanding the role of female characters in g4 and not relegating them to the stereotypical, tea-party giggle flowery braindead mess. 

 

Now, this applies to story as well. Presenting kids with a story where everything ends happily ever after and everything can be solved by crying together and yelling out "we care" is not a realistic portrayal of the world and begs the question "what more can be done?"

 

G4's stories have appealed to adults because they were cleverly thought out. It takes Discord a whole season to reform and even then he's still got a lot of problems. Continuity is important and for kids, when a show is complex and intricate, they gotta map it all out in their brains. They gotta remember plot details, characters, locations, etc.

It makes them smarter by challenging them to think.

It also improves the state of children's animations. Kids love a good story. G4 raised the bar. Good luck airing anything like G3 again. Kids will just change the channel. 

 

So we know that a good story is vital and a bad story should not be defended with "it's just a little kids cartoon" because a bad story is a bad story.

 

Now, to use an example that could be easy to criticize: The Equestria Girls series.

It's got plot holes. But are they deal breakers? In the end, that falls within personal preference.

 

But let's look at it and see where balance lies.

 

In Friendship Games, why does no student seem to care that there are monsters on the track during the motorcross race? This is a pretty big plot hole and could be passed off as lazy, terrible writing. 

I personally think this is a case where "It's just a kid's cartoon" is a fine defense. This isn't real life.

One of the best cartoons ever made: Earthworm Jim. You could ask "why does no one seem to care that there's a giant Earthworm in a supersuit running around?"

Because it's not important and it'd be nitpicking to seriously hold it against the show.  

 

 

Well, when you're overreacting over every minor, insignificant detail or every little gag.....

 

This sums it all up.  What may be an insignificant detail to one person may be a deal breaker to another.

But in the end, it being a kids cartoon DOES need to be taken into consideration. This isn't Breaking Bad or The Sopranos, shows taking place in the real world.

It's a show about multicolored ponies that look more like alien worm monsters (it's a long story).

 

Is the Equestria Series good? I personally think it's mediocre, but I like the three movies because they have what I enjoyed from FiM (if you ask me, I never found the stories of FiM to be as grand as people make them out to be. They're predictable and safe, but understandably so because this is, well, you know, a kid's show).

 

If I wanted to, I could criticize season 1 and 2 to death if I really wanted to, but I don't because the arguments I make look pretty silly when you take into consideration that it's just a kid's show. The episodes are constructed in a manner that kid's will be able to understand, relate to, and follow with ease.

Are the Equestria Girls movies as good as FiM? No. Does that make them bad? No. Can we defend the plot holes by saying "it's just a kid's movie?" In my personal opinion, yes, and seeing people get so bent out of shape over the littlest details, plot holes, and gag, well, I find that kinda cringy because, well, it's just a kid's show. Watch something else if little unimportant inconsistencies prove to be too distracting.   

Edited October 26, 2015 by pollo20x6

[Silver Stream. 708]

That's an argument I've felt was ridiculous. "It's for kids" is an argument that doesn't really hold ground. Basically, it's saying that just because it's aimed at kids, you shouldn't expect any quality from it. Next time you have a conversation, try saying, "I don't care about the quality as long as it's targeted towards children," and tell me where that gets you. If anything, you come off as condescending by saying that kids can't handle anything with quality. Even though a child's brain isn't fully developed, never underestimate a kid's thinking ability.

 

 

I've yet to encounter a person who thinks Mlp FiM lacks high quality. I believe that everyone within the MLP fandom are on the same page when it comes to recognizing that the show definitely exceeds a standard kid's show which is why the fandom is huge in the first place. If you notice, most of all that was said so far in this thread focuses on the main issue: wanting good quality from a kid's show isn't wrong nor is it unfair. Even I have high expectations on this pony show. We all agree that sometimes the writing could be better, or there was a bad episode. or even horrible development among the series that's too obvious to ignore. But when someone goes overboard in expecting perfection...that's when they have to be reminded. Perfection isn't even in ADULT shows these days so it's amazing how much harsh criticism MLP gets when it's intended for the preteen audience. My only issue is when people fail to contain themselves when it comes to expectations and details on the show. I'm not implying we shouldn't be expecting great things from the show, because I do that all the time. But if there is a mistake, or there are a few plot holes that might seem too ridiculous for me to accept, I try to remind myself that MLP is about magical ponies dealing with friendship......and that sometimes these things happen. 

 

Should people accept certain mistakes and ignore detail? Of course not....people are free to do whatever they want. But some people need to be aware that "it's a show for kids, calm down" is more grounded than you think. If people are free to argue in how MLP could have been better written or how stupid some things are about it....then other people should be free to counter it by reminding them it's a kid's show and these things are bound to pop up. Perfection exists no where, my friends. Not even in MLP

Edited October 26, 2015 by Princess Sunset

[green 331]

Spending too much time analysing a show about colored equines probably just means we need some hobbies.

 

 

 

Im up for coin collecting.

[TubeSock2018 325]

Should people accept certain mistakes and ignore detail? Of course not....people are free to do whatever they want. But some people need to be aware that "it's a show for kids, calm down" is more grounded than you think. 

I think this is good advice because while some people may take issue with some narrative choices and others may not, in the end, a children's cartoon isn't worth getting so worked up over and some people really do need

 

 

Spending too much time analysing a show about colored equines probably just means we need some hobbies.

 

 

 

Im up for coin collecting.

I disagree. Spending too much time complaining about said show about colored equines is where we need to start looking into getting some new hobbies.

What counts as complaining, well...I'll leave that up to personal decision.  

 

But deep and thorough analysis doesn't seem like that bad a waste of time. If you find negative stuff, it's worth sharing because the rest of us might learn something new.

 

It's just a matter of how you present your analysis. 

For example, I disagreed pretty much on all of Tommy Oliver's MLP analysis videos and everything he would like, I tended to dislike as well. 

But I always watched his videos because he made good points. He would make good arguments, but they wouldn't detract from my enjoyment of whatever episode he was talking about. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by pollo20x6

[Gearbox10mm 794]

Calling MLP FIM a show for little girls is like saying Watership Down is just a cartoon about rabbits.

 

While technically true, there's a lot more to it than that.

 

That said, anything can be taken too seriously.  

[cider float 2,538]

In cartoons for children background characters are in no need of development yet bronies think they do somewhat. So are you saying they don't need development? The thing is children don't really care if a character needs more development or not. Adults tend to be more attached to a character needing more development not children. I mean do we care if Boots or that fox character gets any development in Dora the Explorer? There we can understand yeah it was never intended for both children and adults just children so nobody goes about analyzing Dora the Explorer.

Edited October 26, 2015 by cider float

[Rawzy 1,302]

To me it's just one of those shows where it's like.....for everyone, everyone finds something different in the show to stay attached to it. For instance, little girls would rather watch the show because of the bright coloured ponies while teenagers would rather watch the show because the show is relatable, it's morals, plots and storyline. Then you could say that adults would rather watch the show because of the old references that are sometimes seen throughout the show and also the epic battle scenes.

 

As it has been said many times....you just have to watch the show to understand it, there are many things that this show holds that may grab you're attention.

[Silver Stream. 708]

 

In cartoons for children background characters are in no need of development yet bronies think they do somewhat. So are you saying they don't need development? The thing is children don't really care if a character needs more development or not. Adults tend to be more attached to a character needing more development not children. I mean do we care if Boots or that fox character gets any development in Dora the Explorer? There we can understand yeah it was never intended for both children and adults just children so nobody goes about analyzing Dora the Explorer.

 

Now you're just comparing My Little Pony to shows that are targeting toddlers and tiaras and babies. If the term "kids" seems to be the issue, then let's switch it up a bit: The show was made for the younger audience (preteens, teens). Regardless in how we may say it, it all leads to this fact. But the quality behind this show has been proven to satisfy the older audience as well to the point where 75% of the fandom is made out of Bronies. just because people pull the "chill out, it's a kids show card" doesn't mean they are implying characters should not get any development. Over half the people who pull that card are also the ones making minor demands or expressing harmless desires....me being one of them. 

 

But when someone jumps in and gets worked up because a pony isn't physically strong enough to knock apples from a tall thick tree with just one kick, that's when reminders are thrown. 

 

Steven Universe is a kid's show but we can all agree it exceeds a standard one with all of it's development and plots. You can say the same for many others. 

 

 

Just because people say this, doesn't mean they are saying adults shouldn't watch it or expect something great. @Rawzy pretty much has is summed up perfectly. I won't deny MLP can be for anyone who can understand it. She said it perfectly. And you know what? Even if the target audience are kids, we can all agree that the show attracts anyone who understands and enjoys it. 

[cider float 2,538]

 

 

 

Now you're just comparing My Little Pony to shows that are targeting toddlers and tiaras and babies. If the term "kids" seems to be the issue, then let's switch it up a bit: The show was made for the younger audience (preteens, teens). Regardless in how we may say it, it all leads to this fact. But the quality behind this show has been proven to satisfy the older audience as well to the point where 75% of the fandom is made out of Bronies. just because people pull the "chill out, it's a kids show card" doesn't mean they are implying characters should not get any development. Over half the people who pull that card are also the ones making minor demands or expressing harmless desires....me being one of them. 

 

But when someone jumps in and gets worked up because a pony isn't physically strong enough to knock apples from a tall thick tree with just one kick, that's when reminders are thrown. 

 

Steven Universe is a kid's show but we can all agree it exceeds a standard one with all of it's development and plots. You can say the same for many others. 

 

 

Just because people say this, doesn't mean they are saying adults shouldn't watch it or expect something great. @Rawzy pretty much has is summed up perfectly. I won't deny MLP can be for anyone who can understand it. She said it perfectly. And you know what? Even if the target audience are kids, we can all agree that the show attracts anyone who understands and enjoys it. 

 

Yes it does. Feeling the need for a background character to have development is in sense the need to explore all character aspects and on the minor details of another character's doings. A children's show does not put emphasis on why a villain is like this and that, what happened to the background pony's deliveries or anything. 

 

People start to really analyze Lyra's activities in the background and start theorizing about what she is like and so forth. They piece it all together that she is into humans and that she has a relationship with Bon Bon and this must be explored. This is heavily stressed among bronies not the intended audience.

Edited October 27, 2015 by cider float