spoiler Is Twilight Sparkle a Defenseless Fool?

[Sunny Fox 5,953]

I have no real issues with Twilight be outperformed, but there needs to be proper reasoning to it and all I have seen as a result is mostly fan speculation because of how vague it all was. We get a few tiny snippets of info in the finale and basically no info in the premiere, so that leaves us with little to go with. So far, every other villain has at least had some kind of proper reason to their own abilities. Discord is the embodiment of chaos itself, Chrysalis is the Queen and mother of an entire species, Nightmare Moon had corruption combined with Luna's Celestial powers, Sombra had dark magic, even Sombra had more proper justification and he never said anything. Starlight can remove Cutie Marks outright, but we never got any real reason for that, other than 'she studied magic a bunch'. 

 

I don't know, maybe I am overreacting to it all, I just can't seem to bring myself to accept any of that as 'good' with her. This is why I am hoping season 6 makes me like Starlight more, because the ending in the finale was the best possible outcome. Everything up to that though, did not make her character grow on me at all.

You make good points. I personally didn't feel that it was too jarring, giving what happened in the premiere. As opposed to Trixie, who was shown in her debut to be inferior to Twilight in magic, hence the introduction of the Alicorn Amulet to make her a legit threat, Starlight was shown to be close to Twilight's level of ability from the get go. There is no power discrepancy to explain, she was introduced as powerful. You don't need a explanation of exactly how and why the Alicorn Amulet makes unicorns powerful or why it corrupts them in the process, to be able to accept that it makes Trixie more than a match for Twi. Why require a full explanation of why Starlight was so strong?

[Flying_Endeavor 73]

And besides, wouldn't a powerful unicorn like Starlight be you know, discovered... early on.. O-o Even before she got to that age....  O-o 

 

And where was she during Tirek... I heard he managed to take the magical capabilities of everypony within Equestria, for sure Starlight would have heard about Twilight and her friends beating him, if not, she would have had her magic taken away by Tirek, and she would better understand the importance of Twilight and her friends as the elements of harmony when they freed everypony's magic. O-o

[Sunny Fox 5,953]

And besides, wouldn't a powerful unicorn like Starlight be you know, discovered... early on.. O-o Even before she got to that age....  O-o 

 

And where was she during Tirek... I heard he managed to take the magical capabilities of everypony within Equestria, for sure Starlight would have heard about Twilight and her friends beating him, if not, she would have had her magic taken away by Tirek, and she would better understand the importance of Twilight and her friends as the elements of harmony when they freed everypony's magic. O-o

Well, the episode itself (along with the S1 episode "Cutie Mark Chronicles") show that if not for RD's sonic rainboom, Celestia would never have found out about Twilight even, so I'm not sure why one would think there is some kind of standard operating procedure for finding talented unicorns.

 

It's not like Tirek consulted the Equestrian census data to make sure he found absolutely everypony in Equestria. Whether that was stated outright or not, I don't know, but there's nothing to say it's impossible for Starlight not to have heard about what happened. 

[Flying_Endeavor 73]

Well, the episode itself (along with the S1 episode "Cutie Mark Chronicles") show that if not for RD's sonic rainboom, Celestia would never have found out about Twilight even, so I'm not sure why one would think there is some kind of standard operating procedure for finding talented unicorns.

 

It's not like Tirek consulted the Equestrian census data to make sure he found absolutely everypony in Equestria. Whether that was stated outright or not, I don't know, but there's nothing to say it's impossible for Starlight not to have heard about what happened. 

 

Surely, news regarding a pony who could take cutie marks would not go unnoticed. 

 

Well, considering the powers of the princesses themselves got taken, the weird weather patterns, and the celestial disturbances, I think a lot of ponies would have noticed that. Not to mention the possible earthquakes and the lights from the beams would have been seen and felt all throughout Equestria. 

[Sunny Fox 5,953]

Surely, news regarding a pony who could take cutie marks would not go unnoticed. 

 

Well, considering the powers of the princesses themselves got taken, the weird weather patterns, and the celestial disturbances, I think a lot of ponies would have noticed that. Not to mention the possible earthquakes and the lights from the beams would have been seen and felt all throughout Equestria. 

Not really, for two reasons. First, Starlight pretty much brainwashed her ponies into never leaving "Our Town", limiting the spread of news; second, none of them knew she was the one casting the "remove cutie mark" spell: she claimed that it was an ability of the staff. Only Twilight was well-read enough to doubt the idea of a seventh magical artifact, and even she didn't piece it together in time. The ponies already living there had literally no reason to suspect that she was able to take cutie marks. Even the Mane Six would never have known anything about Starlight if the Map hadn't specifically sent them there.

 

For your second point, Starlight was fully absorbed in ruling her own little slice of heaven, so I doubt she would care enough to specifically seek out the cause of vague flashes of light and rumblings of thunder from somewhere else in Equestria. Her ignorance of Tirek and the role of Twilight and co. in defeating him (and their other exploits) are justified.

[Flying_Endeavor 73]

Not really, for two reasons. First, Starlight pretty much brainwashed her ponies into never leaving "Our Town", limiting the spread of news; second, none of them knew she was the one casting the "remove cutie mark" spell: she claimed that it was an ability of the staff. Only Twilight was well-read enough to doubt the idea of a seventh magical artifact, and even she didn't piece it together in time. The ponies already living there had literally no reason to suspect that she was able to take cutie marks. Even the Mane Six would never have known anything about Starlight if the Map hadn't specifically sent them there.

 

For your second point, Starlight was fully absorbed in ruling her own little slice of heaven, so I doubt she would care enough to specifically seek out the cause of vague flashes of light and rumblings of thunder from somewhere else in Equestria. Her ignorance of Tirek and the role of Twilight and co. in defeating him (and their other exploits) are justified.

 

Not really. Starlight has been interested in expanding her own little world from the start, so, like what she did with her revenge plot, she of course would research on the causes and events, as well as what kind of powers she must be dealing with. She knows about the time travel scrolls, etc. She knows that Twilight is a princess because she is an alicorn, so she is not clueless to what lies beyond her little world. Of course, those flashes would surely have caught the attention of other ponies in her little village, since nothing much goes on in there anyways. And given the underground resistance, I am pretty sure not all ponies would have agreed with her belief, and some probably left before their cutie marks were removed. 

 

I simply do not know how she got that powerful, in what seems like a snap, and have in depth knowledge of what she needs to make her revenge. She also managed to obtain the Time travel spell, for who knows how. She must know how to secretly get into the Royal Archives, to be able to find the book and take the spell from it. Or, the Royal Guards there are that incompetent to not notice a unicorn just simply tearing a page off a book containing among the most powerful spells in all of Equestria. 

 

And that brings us to the main point of this thread, why was nothing done about this. Why did Twilight allow herself to become so vulnerable and yet she worries a lot about a possible plot against her... She could have at least placed one guard in her castle, or have posters set up to be on the look-out for Starlight Glimmer, considering we did see her every now and then on certain episodes, seemingly stalking Twilight. 

 

Mreh, it's possibly for the sake of the show. Either way, it makes Twilight look terrible or incompetent at her own self defense. Perhaps this would finally be a good reason for her to have Royal Escorts. 

[cider float 2,539]

Remember in Equestria the only pony that keeps a state of security is Celestia who seems to suspect a possible attack from changelings, the Crystal Empire and Tirek.

[Soobel 489]

I thought too, like Twily was helpless fool... But
Nopony are never meet dictators like Lenin, Stalin and others and their mass crimes, and nopony know nothing about Orwell's 1984. They just not know that Starlight will be dangerious criminal. They just meet weird town with weird issue, resolved that issue nad kick Starlight off there. Done! They just not seen here big problem and ugly criminal and reasons to notify Celestia.

Starlights revenge was very unexpected for Twilight. And i feel that Starlight are elder and more experienced than Twilight, that may be reason, why her magic are same powerful.

[Flying_Endeavor 73]

Well, that could be a nice explanation. O-o However, with the recent occurrences, a little security for not only the royalty, but also the ordinary ponies should be in order. 

[Sunny Fox 5,953]

Not really. Starlight has been interested in expanding her own little world from the start, so, like what she did with her revenge plot, she of course would research on the causes and events, as well as what kind of powers she must be dealing with. She knows about the time travel scrolls, etc. She knows that Twilight is a princess because she is an alicorn, so she is not clueless to what lies beyond her little world. Of course, those flashes would surely have caught the attention of other ponies in her little village, since nothing much goes on in there anyways. And given the underground resistance, I am pretty sure not all ponies would have agreed with her belief, and some probably left before their cutie marks were removed. 

 

I simply do not know how she got that powerful, in what seems like a snap, and have in depth knowledge of what she needs to make her revenge. She also managed to obtain the Time travel spell, for who knows how. She must know how to secretly get into the Royal Archives, to be able to find the book and take the spell from it. Or, the Royal Guards there are that incompetent to not notice a unicorn just simply tearing a page off a book containing among the most powerful spells in all of Equestria. 

 

And that brings us to the main point of this thread, why was nothing done about this. Why did Twilight allow herself to become so vulnerable and yet she worries a lot about a possible plot against her... She could have at least placed one guard in her castle, or have posters set up to be on the look-out for Starlight Glimmer, considering we did see her every now and then on certain episodes, seemingly stalking Twilight. 

 

Mreh, it's possibly for the sake of the show. Either way, it makes Twilight look terrible or incompetent at her own self defense. Perhaps this would finally be a good reason for her to have Royal Escorts. 

Starlight wasn't making any moves to expand her influence beyond her own town at the time Twilight and co arrived on her doorstep. She was happy that Twilight had arrived because she could now conscript a Princess to spread her little equality cult. There's no indication that she was putting any plans to spread out into action until then. Plus, news of a new Princess was a season 3 event finale/season 4 premiere, Tirek was a season 4 finale event, with the season 5 premiere taking place shortly after. There was far more time for news of a new princess to spread than for news of Tirek's rampage. Most of the rest of what you mention happened after the season premiere, when they'd already ruined her little utopia, and given her a reason to seek revenge. That's why there were cameos of her spying on Twilight a couple of times in the season. Even if some potential cultponies did leave before she cast the spell on them, that doesn't mean they ran straight to Twilight or Celestia with the news.

 

Starlight probably was already that powerful, she just needed to spy on Twilight to get more info... as she did. I pointed out previously, she got the drop on Twilight quite handily in the premiere, so it wasn't as if she was originally shown weak, as was Trixie. And yeah, how exactly Starlight found out about and got the time travel spell is never explained, but so what? That's what imagination is for. She's apparently been stalking Twilight all season without being discovered. Not too far a stretch to imagine she managed to learn what she needed and then sneak around a few Royal Guards... who aren't all that competent anyway.

 

For the main point of the thread, Twilight didn't know Starlight was spying on her. She wasn't worried about her until she saw her sitting in her audience, and Starlight put her plan into action almost immediately after. When did Twilight have time to arrange an escort of Royal Guards? I don't know why people expect Twilight to be psychic about future threats. 

[Flying_Endeavor 73]

Starlight wasn't making any moves to expand her influence beyond her own town at the time Twilight and co arrived on her doorstep. She was happy that Twilight had arrived because she could now conscript a Princess to spread her little equality cult. There's no indication that she was putting any plans to spread out into action until then. Plus, news of a new Princess was a season 3 event finale/season 4 premiere, Tirek was a season 4 finale event, with the season 5 premiere taking place shortly after. There was far more time for news of a new princess to spread than for news of Tirek's rampage. Most of the rest of what you mention happened after the season premiere, when they'd already ruined her little utopia, and given her a reason to seek revenge. That's why there were cameos of her spying on Twilight a couple of times in the season. Even if some potential cultponies did leave before she cast the spell on them, that doesn't mean they ran straight to Twilight or Celestia with the news.

 

Starlight probably was already that powerful, she just needed to spy on Twilight to get more info... as she did. I pointed out previously, she got the drop on Twilight quite handily in the premiere, so it wasn't as if she was originally shown weak, as was Trixie. And yeah, how exactly Starlight found out about and got the time travel spell is never explained, but so what? That's what imagination is for. She's apparently been stalking Twilight all season without being discovered. Not too far a stretch to imagine she managed to learn what she needed and then sneak around a few Royal Guards... who aren't all that competent anyway.

 

For the main point of the thread, Twilight didn't know Starlight was spying on her. She wasn't worried about her until she saw her sitting in her audience, and Starlight put her plan into action almost immediately after. When did Twilight have time to arrange an escort of Royal Guards? I don't know why people expect Twilight to be psychic about future threats. 

 

 

Well, points taken. However, the ponies from her utopia did not exactly appeared out of nowhere neither. Some came from different places, looking for a place to be. Surely, they must have heard about Starlight or this location in Equestria from someplace, and decided to gather there. So, her cause or intentions should be a bit known, especially to those seeking a newer life outside the regular Equestrian one. And if one of those who decided not to join her cult, left, wouldn't or shouldn't they talk about it someplace. Something such as removing a cutie mark, is not exactly a common occurrence. 

 

Yes, the Tirek event was recent. I think the ponies would question something as recent and big as his destruction of Equestria. Considering the memories of what they saw would still be etched in their minds. 

And not exactly, it was obvious from the start that she wanted to expand her influence even further, and she saw Twilight as an opportunity to achieve just that, considering she's an alicorn princess. And that would be a huge propaganda boost if ever Twilight joined her cause. 

 

And given how many attempts there have been on her life, IE: Tirek, Chrysallis, even Sombra, I think the message would have been clear to her that she has made a lot of enemies throughout her adventures with her friends. That is pretty much my stance on it. It was obvious she has a lot of enemies, and in the end, she feels so insecure cause she did not secure herself in the first place. She was basically a bit too overconfident in the safety of her own town, when that town gets attacked by pretty much anything. 

[Fawkes The Phoenix 737]

Twilight might be smart and talented, but she has almost no experience in combat. She only had to use combat magic to defeat Tirek, Starlight probably trained a lot before the finale. Besides, she couldn't just go crazy like she did with Tirek. She's close to innocent children who might get hurt or killed, and she didn't even intend to kill Starlight in the first place.

 

About her not getting protection. It was pretty obvious that Starlight was really talented since The Cutie Map, royal guards would be useless for protection. Besides, Twilight couldn't just become paranoid with the threat of Starlight coming back for revenge, in the end she would have gotten away with it anyway, unless of course Twilight asked for an entire army to take care of her, which didn't happen for obvious reasons.

 

Twilight is the princess of friendship, she's not supposed to be good at combat or strategy. She's more of a diplomat, and she's also supposed to be close to the average ponies. She can't just lock herself in a castle being completely unreachable to anyone, that wouldn't be good for her image.

 

Starlight isn't powerful because "reasons". Only a powerful unicorn could have done what she did, and it also serves as a lesson as to why her philosophy was never right to being with. She had to be different and special in order to achieve her goal, which was a society where no one was better than anyone.

[ShadowPhoenix 153]

Well I don't really buy the whole Starlight is near to Twilight in magic business. Their drawn-out conflict in The Cutie Re-mark does feature some impressive magical showing from Starlight as seen in i) self-levitation and ii) crystal escapology. Her defensive spell was already demonstrated in The Cutie Map and she is not the only unicorn who is able to fire laser beams. She was able to throw Twilight through time and space at sheer whim through portal manipulation with the aid of Starswirl's spell and her naturally deftness allowing her to repeatedly catch her off-guard.

 

Their duel proves nothing. Twilight appeared tired because she kept being thrown into and survive different timelines and had to hold back to avoid hurting innocent filly bystanders and cause collateral damage and keep up with that pesky time-spell and get her point across.

 

I still think in terms of sheer villain power from least to most it goes:

1) Starlight Glimmer

2) King Sombra

3) Queen Chrysalis

4) Tirek/Nightmare Moon (circumstantial but usually Nightmare Moon is stronger)

5) Discord

[Shimmer Sparkle 4,106]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHE IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Although. she might not have combat experience. I completely understand that as much as Twilight loves to read, she's never picked up a book having to do with combat training, otherwise it might have been implied in the show. But she will never be a "defenseless fool". She could work on learning more about combat training. She has really shown a lot of potential throughout the series. THAT IS THE ONLY POINT I AGREE ON! OTHER THAN THAT, SHE IS BEST OF THE MANE 6 AND SHE IS BEST PRINCESS!!! YOU HEAR ME?

 

 

 

                                                          "storms out"

Edited December 15, 2015 by Shimmer Sparkle

[ASGARDIANBRONY 128]

I have tp disagree. I believe Twilight is potentially the most powerful Alicorn but she's yet to tap into her "raw power'. Celestial chose her because she could sense...and she took a sneak peak... at Twilight's potential power. I will think it's just locked away.. where she must depend on friendship magic and the "alicorn magic booster" whenever she is against danger.

 

*shrugs* just my theory

 

Also....I would not call her useless compared to the other alicorns. She solved and did just as much as they have if not more regardless if she had help or not.

this is exactly what I think and if I am correct the show specifically says this. also I think starlight augmented herself with some of starswirls other magic spells to become powerful enough to fight twilight. I don't know why there couldn't have been other spells lying around with that time spell.

[Sunny Fox 5,953]

Well, points taken. However, the ponies from her utopia did not exactly appeared out of nowhere neither. Some came from different places, looking for a place to be. Surely, they must have heard about Starlight or this location in Equestria from someplace, and decided to gather there. So, her cause or intentions should be a bit known, especially to those seeking a newer life outside the regular Equestrian one. And if one of those who decided not to join her cult, left, wouldn't or shouldn't they talk about it someplace. Something such as removing a cutie mark, is not exactly a common occurrence. 

 

Yes, the Tirek event was recent. I think the ponies would question something as recent and big as his destruction of Equestria. Considering the memories of what they saw would still be etched in their minds. 

And not exactly, it was obvious from the start that she wanted to expand her influence even further, and she saw Twilight as an opportunity to achieve just that, considering she's an alicorn princess. And that would be a huge propaganda boost if ever Twilight joined her cause. 

 

And given how many attempts there have been on her life, IE: Tirek, Chrysallis, even Sombra, I think the message would have been clear to her that she has made a lot of enemies throughout her adventures with her friends. That is pretty much my stance on it. It was obvious she has a lot of enemies, and in the end, she feels so insecure cause she did not secure herself in the first place. She was basically a bit too overconfident in the safety of her own town, when that town gets attacked by pretty much anything. 

I like the cut of your gib, sir. True, they might well talk about it. But remember that Starlight was deliberately flying under the radar - she claimed the Staff was the reason she could remove cutie marks, and also pretended she had used the staff to remove her own cutie mark. Whatever rumours resulted, wouldn't have immediately outed Starlight as being the one with the magic to remove cutie marks, so I still don't see why you should expect her level of strength to be common knowledge.

 

Rumours about Tirek and how he was defeated, were they to reach the village, doesn't mean Starlight would either know or accept that it was one group of friends who were the ones to beat him. Besides, most of the destruction was limited to Ponyville and / or Canterlot - quite far away from the village, I would suspect. Rumours are just that: rumours, and not to be taken as gospel truth without verification, which Starlight might or might not have been bothered to do.

 

As for attempts on her life, before Starlight, the only enemy who really made it personal to Twilight was Trixie. (Yes, I'm aware that technically, you could use the example of Chrysalis from the comic as another example of the villain making it personal, but I personally avoid using the comics to argue the show's plot points and I'll thank others to do the same) Finally, I'd point out that she is in the end a Princess of Friendship... having a constant group of body guards to keep away anyone who might be a threat would conflict with that a touch methinks.

[Flying_Endeavor 73]

I like the cut of your gib, sir. True, they might well talk about it. But remember that Starlight was deliberately flying under the radar - she claimed the Staff was the reason she could remove cutie marks, and also pretended she had used the staff to remove her own cutie mark. Whatever rumours resulted, wouldn't have immediately outed Starlight as being the one with the magic to remove cutie marks, so I still don't see why you should expect her level of strength to be common knowledge.

 

Rumours about Tirek and how he was defeated, were they to reach the village, doesn't mean Starlight would either know or accept that it was one group of friends who were the ones to beat him. Besides, most of the destruction was limited to Ponyville and / or Canterlot - quite far away from the village, I would suspect. Rumours are just that: rumours, and not to be taken as gospel truth without verification, which Starlight might or might not have been bothered to do.

 

As for attempts on her life, before Starlight, the only enemy who really made it personal to Twilight was Trixie. (Yes, I'm aware that technically, you could use the example of Chrysalis from the comic as another example of the villain making it personal, but I personally avoid using the comics to argue the show's plot points and I'll thank others to do the same) Finally, I'd point out that she is in the end a Princess of Friendship... having a constant group of body guards to keep away anyone who might be a threat would conflict with that a touch methinks.

 

I kinda did not understand the cut of my gib part.. ^^" 

 

That is true, she tried to pass off a standard staff as a mythical object, like the elements of harmony. Either her strength, or the mythical powers of the staff should have been known. Either ways, I still do not understand how she managed to build up a town of ponies coming from different corners of Equestria without much about her being known by everypony else outside her little town. 

 

Well, that is probably a good explanation. 

 

And regarding the attempts, she made countless enemies, ever since. All could have ended with her not having a good ending, so a couple of guards at least for her own castle should have been taken into consideration. It's a castle, and her brother is the captain of the guard. I think they should have thought about the security of her own home, considering there might be important stuff in there to protect, like the Cutie Map, or Twilight's personal and private belongings. 

Edited December 11, 2015 by Flying_Endeavor