movies/tv Why does nobody complain about RWBY yet everyone complains about Dubbed Anime?

[Sazama Ichida 2,367]

I've made it up to episode 20 of RWBY and I like the show ok so far but I really have to ask, Why is it that everyone complains about the voice acting of Dubbed Anime yet nobody complains about the voice acting of RWBY? Especially since it sounds exactly the same if not just a little worse...And not only that but the show in general is pretty much just a halfassed attempt at anime. That's not to say that it sucks. It doesn't. But it still doesn't hold a candle to real anime. America tried but at the end of the day they just couldn't replicate Japan's greatness.

[Shift 4,272]

RWBY's not an anime, it's a webshow that took some cues from anime (namely the character models), but is in the end a western webshow. It's not really comparable to anime. It's like asking why people don't complain about MLP's voice acting but they complain about dubs (Fun fact; both RWBY and MLP have japanese dubs!).

[Melon Blitz 423]

RWBY is made by a small team of people as a web series, they don't really have tons of resources like a powerhouse anime studio.

 

A lot of episodes were animated and written by one or two people, mostly by just Monty Oum alone, and he died early last year. So, it's pretty amazing what they've done with just a small amount of people vs a giant anime studio with tons of production artists, voiceactors, resources, industry experience ect.

[DJW 142]

Anime dubs have baggage.

 

Dirty, awkward, poorly delivered, badly directed baggage made on a budget.

 

As such there is a vocal snobbery associated with them that regardless of quality, garners derision.

Let's remember that many of those who decry dubs are frequently unable to tell if the Japanese voice acting is up to scratch. Even with a reasonable knowledge of Japanese vocabulary, without growing up as a native speaker or spending a significant time in the country, the differences in the rhythms, inflections, timings and tonal elements compared with conversational Japanese will be lost.

As they are easily able to detect such deviations in their native language, it is immediately considered innately inferior.

 

If the original is in English, then that assumed inferiority cannot exist (or at least becomes tenuous).

 

Incidentally, I have never seen the Japanese version of Haruhi, only the dub. I found that I had no need to go back and watch the 'original'.

It varies from studio to studio, but dubs have come a long way since the nineties.

Edited January 26, 2016 by DJW

[Malinter 3,064]

I watch almost all my anime in dub because most japanese men sound like freaking girls and it just sounds wrong seeing some character who is supposed to be this intimidating badguy squeak at me...

[PE Brony 1,712]

Sure the voice acting isn't 5 Star quality, but it was Monty Oum's first major production. Monty happened to be of part-Japanese descent, despite being American born and raised. Oum was also primarily an animator, not a storyteller. So RWBY was more of a sandbox for Oum to test his styles and all that jazz. Also, it's a 3-D animated show, so it is vastly different from anime on those grounds alone, and honestly, its story is more believable than most of the anime I've watched so far.

 

Maybe it's just the style, but shows like Tengen Toppa: Gurren Lagann is full of ultra-convenient plot twists that make it so the heroes always seemed to get the upper hand just by sheer force of will.

 

American voice dubbing is often bad because they have to re-write the script and then the actors have to try to fit it into the same screen time and mouth movements. Not really all that easy of a task.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

America tried but at the end of the day they just couldn't replicate Japan's greatness.

 

On top of what everyone's already said, "Japan's greatness?" Look I appreciate Japanese culture too, but I'm not going to call Haruhi Suzumiya Japan's Colossus of Rhodes or even it's Citizen Kane. 

 

Second of all, EVERY Japanese originated "anime" if one is even calling RWBY that are better than RWBY? How?! What, Boku No Pico and Princess Mononoke are categorically the same thing just because they are both anime? RWBY is worse than, Bakugan Battle Brawlers or Hamtoro?

 

As for the United States being a factor for some reason, why can't art influence art across national borders? Anime was started as an art form because of the popularity of Disney cartoons in Japan! Sergio Leone, an Italian director made some of the best Westerns in film history. Supernatural, Batman, and the Powerpuff Girls had anime made of them. Akira Kurosowa made adaptation's of Shakespeare's Macbeth (Throne of Blood) and King Lear (Ran), in addition to being influenced by American Westerns in his movies (The Seven Samurai, Yojimbo) which were then adapted back into westerns (The Magnificent Seven, A Fistful of Dollars).

 

East to West and back again, art belongs to everyone, and no nation can do an entire category of any art "better" than another simply because that art form did or did not originate in that country.

 

Again, the Western was invented in the States but the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly directed by Sergio Leone is sure as Hell a lot better than Jonah Hex.

 

RWBY is obviously influenced by anime, but Monty Oum wasn't trying to make "an American anime" he was just making a web show. And he made a DAMN good show with limited resources, a dizzyingly deep knowledge of mythology and folklore, and a completely self-taught gift for animation. God bless him and may he rest in peace.

I watch almost all my anime in dub because most japanese men sound like freaking girls and it just sounds wrong seeing some character who is supposed to be this intimidating badguy squeak at me...

 

Ehhh for me that depends on the show, as one might expect given each show is different. For instance in Ruroni Kenshin, Kenshin actually is voiced by a woman so I prefer his english voice actor, but in turn a lot of the villains that should sound really scary and menacing just feel hammy and miscast.

 

Oum was also primarily an animator, not a storyteller. So RWBY was more of a sandbox for Oum to test his styles and all that jazz

 

Which makes me green with envy as someone who IS a storyteller and seeing RWBY's characters, world, and narrative make me want to throw my hands up in surrender at the knowledge that I will NEVER write something as good as RWBY. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Steel Accord

[cuteycindyhoney 13,316]

Not all dubs are bad. "You're Under Arrest" is one of my all time favorite anime, and I much prefer the English dub. The English VA for Strikeman NAILED it! The dub for "Hyper Police" (I'm rewatching some of my old favorites) is very good, but I prefer the Japanese language track because I LOVE how Sakura talks. When she gets all excited her voice gets kinda scratchy and rough. She's so cool!

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Monty happened to be of part-Japanese descent, despite being American born and raised.

 

Are you sure he was Japanese? Oum sounds more Chinese to me, or maybe Korean.

 

Also what do you mean by "despite being American born and raised?" I'm not angry or anything I'm just not quite sure what you meant.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Steel Accord

[Koukatsu 5,899]

I often hear a dubbed voice, and my immediate reaction is that it just sounds wrong.
Translating is poorly done, because of stupid reasons, and the casting is often lacking.
If it sounds wrong, it is wrong.

That said, there are a few dubs that are not bad, but I can count them on one hand.

[Megas 27,819]

It's a western webseries made by a very small team on a very limited budged. Considering what they have done with the series is nothing short of fantastic given the limitations.

 

Also just because people give dubs a hard time doesn't mean they're right. 90% of the time the snobs that piss and moan about dubs usually only do it because they're allergic to anything that isn't Japanese, and I can guarantee that the majority of people complaining don't even know Japanese aside from "kawaii", "senpai" or "kunichiwa"

 

I've seen genuinely bad dubs and more often then not they are rife with bad lip syncing, and often change the source material to the point where it's not the same anymore, and bad voice casting(and I'm not talking about "voices I don't like so it sucks" bad, I'm taking about "why the fuck does Megaman X sound like a 5-year-old girl?!" bad). Most dub criticisms never go beyond "ewww English"

 

 

 

That's not to say that it sucks. It doesn't. But it still doesn't hold a candle to real anime. America tried but at the end of the day they just couldn't replicate Japan's greatness.

 

 

Also I'd prefer you not down play western animation while chalking up anime like it's the greatest thing ever. It you look like a really biased fanboy

[cider float 2,538]

The same reason nobody complains about Avatar the Last Airbender. I recognized a lot of it is very much like an anime but there is some personality quirks and story telling elements that still felt somewhat U.S. animationish. 

 

I mean what would Avatar sound like if subbed when there aren't japanese voice actors for it? 

It makes sense why people like to watch subbed anime over dubbed because subbed anime is in it's genuine format, sometimes the English voice actors don't portray the characters correctly and sometimes translation is altered. You're not getting the raw experience, just a rehashed version that's why people feel the value has been cheapened.

 

Why do subbers spaz out so much about it? Because if they didn't the distributers will feel it's okay to dub everything and then you got a market on dubs and the subbers will be miserable.

Edited January 27, 2016 by cider float

[PE Brony 1,712]

Are you sure he was Japanese? Oum sounds more Chinese to me, or maybe Korean.

 

Also what do you mean by "despite being American born and raised?" I'm not angry or anything I'm just not quite sure what you meant.

Well, I probably should have just said he was Asian-American if we need to be PC about it. I have nothing against Americans in general (bein American myself and happy about it).

 

According to a tweet from Monty before his passing (obviously):

 

"@ShawnaKhut: @montyoum Quick question. What's your nationality?" I am Cambodian, Vietnamese, Chinese, and Japanese!

15 Jun 2013"

 

I must say I enjoyed your other rebuttal up there!

Edited January 27, 2016 by PE Brony

[Steel Accord 6,660]

 

 

Also just because people give dubs a hard time doesn't mean they're right. 90% of the time the snobs that piss and moan about dubs usually only do it because they're allergic to anything that isn't Japanese, and I can guarantee that the majority of people complaining don't even know Japanese aside from "kawaii", "senpai" or "kunichiwa"   I've seen genuinely bad dubs and more often then not they are rife with bad lip syncing, and often change the source material to the point where it's not the same anymore, and bad voice casting(and I'm not talking about "voices I don't like so it sucks" bad, I'm taking about "why the fuck does Megaman X sound like a 5-year-old girl?!" bad). Most dub criticisms never go beyond "ewww English"

 

You know this is a phenomenon that I truly don't understand. I hope because of my previous post I've shown that I have a good understanding of Japanese culture and significant people at least as far as film and art is concerned but what I don't have is a sense of cultural self-loathing that seems so common with many Japanophiles. (But not enough self-loathing to actually, you know, learn the language and move there.)

 

So just as a sort of open question somewhat related to the topic, why is this for so many people?

Well, I probably should have just said he was Asian-American if we need to be PC about it. I have nothing against Americans in general (bein American myself and happy about it).

According to a tweet from Monty before his passing (obviously):

"@ShawnaKhut: @montyoum Quick question. What's your nationality?" I am Cambodian, Vietnamese, Chinese, and Japanese!
15 Jun 2013"

I must I I enjoyed your other rebuttal up there!

 

Oh wow, Monty would have had one wild family tree if you drew it out on a map.

 

Thank you, glad you enjoyed reading it.

[cider float 2,538]

It's about authenticity. I wouldn't want to watch the Force Awakens for the first time where a bunch of people dubbed their voices over it, that's like something you find from youpoop no thank you.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

It's about authenticity. I wouldn't want to watch the Force Awakens for the first time where a bunch of people dubbed their voices over it, that's like something you find from youpoop no thank you.

 

Well not everyone speaks Japanese or likes watching the bottom of the screen to read what the characters are saying when the actions playing. Me, I watch a lot of Kung Fu films, so I'm used to it and I know what you are getting at. Even if the English dub is there, I'll eschew it. 

 

The thing is though, not everyone is you or me, and animation is different than live action in many ways. Dubbing included.

[Sazama Ichida 2,367]

I don't hate dubbed anime. Quite the opposite. It's my preference. What I'm saying is that it pisses me off how people complain about it all the time and yet they don't complain about RWBY when it's not even as good as dubbed anime. Both the voice-acting and the animation are inferior to actual anime.

[cider float 2,538]

I don't hate dubbed anime. Quite the opposite. It's my preference. What I'm saying is that it pisses me off how people complain about it all the time and yet they don't complain about RWBY when it's not even as good as dubbed anime. Both the voice-acting and the animation are inferior to actual anime.

I don't complain about it because I don't go out of my way to watch it.

[Sazama Ichida 2,367]

Avatar The Last Airbender and Korra I can understand why no one complains about. Because they're actually a decent attempt at anime. But Avatar and Korra RWBY has both cheesy voice-acting and inferior art style to real anime.

[cider float 2,538]

It's part of foreign mysticism. It's interesting that there are British women that find American southern accent more sexy than the British accent of British men.

 

 

As for how I feel about the authenticity of things, I listened to the Japanese version of This Day Aria and it just wasn't as good as the original.

Edited January 27, 2016 by cider float

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Avatar The Last Airbender and Korra I can understand why no one complains about. Because they're actually a decent attempt at anime. But Avatar and Korra RWBY has both cheesy voice-acting and inferior art style to real anime.

 

I don't think Bryan Konietzko and Michael Dante DiMartino were trying to make "an anime" I think they were trying to make a good show and by God did they succeed.

 

RWBY, likewise, is also a good show and much better than many others I can name, western or anime. To address your specific complaints, Ozpin, Professor Port, Glynda, Roman Torchwick, Blake, Yang, Weiss, they all acquit themselves admirably. Qrow is even voiced by legendary voice talent Vic Mignona. The only one I will grant you could be improved is Ruby herself, but that's nothing to do with her voice actress, the character is just a natural optimist so when she's sad it comes more from her just talking quieter but still with a smile. Meanwhile the animation, while a bit choppy at first from a FIRST TIME DIRECTOR AND IN COMPUTER ANIMATION NOT HAND DRAWN it was understandable and you know what, as the seasons have gone on, it's improved greatly.

 

Again, are you positing that ALL ANIME have superior animation to RWBY because I have demonstrative examples of that being not true.

 

(I direct you back to my first post for more of my actual point.)

 

 

It's part of foreign mysticism. It's interesting that there are British women that find American southern accent more sexy than the British accent of British men.

 

I find that notion to be silly. (Not that you are.) I mean the phrase "the grass is always greener on the other side" refers to the false perception that different from what you are used to is categorically "better in every way" rather than simply being different. I can appreciate Chinese culture but there are aspects about modern China that I can still criticize. I mean if anything, being acquainted with another culture but not viewing it as being arbitrarily superior to another allows me to more accurately critique problems when I see them.

 

The best critics of something are always that thing's fans, and a patriot's first duty should be to question when their leadership is straying from the ideals that they found their authority under.

 

I like anime and Japan, but just thinking that ALL ANIME as in every single animated show and movie that's ever been made in Japan is superior to western animation is unfeasible. I would say Inuyasha is better than Ren and Stimpy but I would also say The Iron Giant is better than My Neighbor Totoro. (Although Totoro is still a great movie so maybe bad example on my part.)

[cider float 2,538]

I don't think Bryan Konietzko and Michael Dante DiMartino were trying to make "an anime" I think they were trying to make a good show and by God did they succeed.

 

RWBY, likewise, is also a good show and much better than many others I can name, western or anime. To address your specific complaints, Ozpin, Professor Port, Glynda, Roman Torchwick, Blake, Yang, Weiss, they all acquit themselves admirably. Qrow is even voiced by legendary voice talent Vic Mignona. The only one I will grant you could be improved is Ruby herself, but that's nothing to do with her voice actress, the character is just a natural optimist so when she's sad it comes more from her just talking quieter but still with a smile. Meanwhile the animation, while a bit choppy at first from a FIRST TIME DIRECTOR AND IN COMPUTER ANIMATION NOT HAND DRAWN it was understandable and you know what, as the seasons have gone on, it's improved greatly.

 

Again, are you positing that ALL ANIME have superior animation to RWBY because I have demonstrative examples of that being not true.

 

(I direct you back to my first post for more of my actual point.)

 

 

 

I find that notion to be silly. (Not that you are.) I mean the phrase "the grass is always greener on the other side" refers to the false perception that different from what you are used to is categorically "better in every way" rather than simply being different. I can appreciate Chinese culture but there are aspects about modern China that I can still criticize. I mean if anything, being acquainted with another culture but not viewing it as being arbitrarily superior to another allows me to more accurately critique problems when I see them.

 

The best critics of something are always that thing's fans, and a patriot's first duty should be to question when their leadership is straying from the ideals that they found their authority under.

 

I like anime and Japan, but just thinking that ALL ANIME as in every single animated show and movie that's ever been made in Japan is superior to western animation is unfeasible. I would say Inuyasha is better than Ren and Stimpy but I would also say The Iron Giant is better than My Neighbor Totoro. (Although Totoro is still a great movie so maybe bad example on my part.)

Foreign mysticism is not necessarily a meaning that foreigners are better than you. It's finding foreigners or foreign material appealing.

 

I feel you have some kind of this is better than that thing going on. I've said it before I watched MLP because of the comedy I would not sit here and say MLP is better than certain anime I watch. I watch MLP for a reason but it's not because it's better than anime nor do I watch anime because it is better than MLP. Get what I'm going for?

 

One thing is not better than another, they are just different.

Edited January 27, 2016 by cider float

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Foreign mysticism is not necessarily a meaning that foreigners are better than you. It's finding foreigners or foreign material appealing.

 

Ah, I see, I misunderstood. Magas said something to that effect that there are some who do think in such a way and I was passing comment on such thinking.

 

Certainly I understand the concept but I prefer not to think of it as "foreign mysticism" for a number of reasons. To say "foreign," at least when I hear it so maybe it's just me, speaks to a kind of distance that isn't just physical but categorical.

 

"He's foreign, he's something else. He's not like me." Whether that's meant positively or negatively, I don't like that train of thought.

 

I do Kung Fu and I study Buddhism and Taoism but I don't call these things "foreign" I call them Chinese as they are of China. (Well technically Buddhism is native to India but you get my point I hope.) But the people of China are not a separate species or higher beings who deign to gift the West with their wisdom, they're people just like me.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,303]

Sometimes an anime dub almost completely changes the meaning of the original dialogue.  When there's apparently greater emphasis on matching the dialogue to lip movements than there is to staying at least remotely near to the source material, that bugs me.

 

When a Japanese character in a dub is inexplicably given a European-sounding accent, that bugs me.  Ami Mizuno from Sailor Moon is a classic example.

 

When a dub repeatedly butchers the name of a character, that bugs me.

 

When a dub changes a character name from something that wasn't that difficult to pronounce in the first place, that bugs me.

 

Also, I wasn't sure what the hell RWBY was before I entered this topic.  So I never really had occasion to complain.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Ziggy and Angelbaby

[Megas 27,819]

Well not everyone speaks Japanese or likes watching the bottom of the screen to read what the characters are saying when the actions playing. Me, I watch a lot of Kung Fu films, so I'm used to it and I know what you are getting at. Even if the English dub is there, I'll eschew it. 

 

The thing is though, not everyone is you or me, and animation is different than live action in many ways. Dubbing included.

I think that's a different beast all together. The best thing about animation is that it's not real, so animated shows/movies can be adapted into any language without much problem, at least as long as skilled people handle it. When it's live action on the other hand it just feels very jarring to hear it in any language other than the original, and a lot of it is because they're dubbing it over real people instead of animated characters, and, at least for me, it feels really uncanny