Has Diamond Tiara been vindicated for you?

[Azureth 687]

After her "conversion" would you say despite all she did in the past she has now been vindicated?

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,907]

Not for me. While I love that DT will be reformed now and actually nice, I don't just want to see this be a magical conversion that just 'happens' and its done. I want to see some repercussions for what she did in the past. I want to see her have to confront other ponies that she was so harsh to in the past, and see her trying to make new friends, but struggling. See that kind of growth in her character would be very nice to see. If they can fit that into season 6 that is.

[Roughshod 719]

Not quite. There is still some work to be done. If not, we'll I guess that will be okay albeit not very convincing.

[That Guy with the CMB 5,876]

I guess. I kinda didn't want her to be, because she was a brat and brats get stitches, clown.

[cybershocker455 324]

Considering she had no reason to insult Scootaloo's inability to fly, I say not quite. However, if we have a focus episode trying to make up for all the bad she's caused, maybe even have a pet the dog moment towards Scootaloo, my opinion will change.

[KatonRyu 1,033]

That will depend on her future appearances. If she remains nice and tries to make up for the things she used to do, then yes. Even if she struggles a bit with I'll consider it genuine. I guess time will tell.

[Chuckles4lyfe 441]

I feel that her vindication in Crusaders of the Lost Mark was cut short as the focus shifted from her having an epiphany to the CMC getting their marks and ending a chapter in their lives that was 5 years in the making  .

 

I would really like to see an episode in S6 that focuses on DT. She certainly does have an interesting family dynamic now  :diamondtiara:. 

[Rainbow Diamonds 282]

Not at all. Sunset Shimmer wasn't forgiven, and her past was frequently brought up. Same with Discord. Diamond Tiara insulted Scootaloo's disability, and that's just awful. I think She should have to earn everyone's forgiveness. I would imagine that she would be blamed for things that she didn't do because of her past, or the foals distrust her. If the foals trust her completely, it wouldn't make any sense. To most of the foals, Diamond Tiara suddenly became nice. That would raise a red flag for anyone. The CMC know what's up, but the other foals don't. Maybe she can do something to earn everyone's forgiveness, like Sunset Shimmer did, but as of now, she is not vindicated. 

[Concerned Bystander 2,904]

Vindicated is perhaps not the right choice of word.  Vindicated would suggest that her actions were, in retrospect, justified.

 

People, regardless of upbringing, history, mental capacity or any number of other factors, are ultimately responsible for their own actions, those factors may explain their behaviour, but doesn't excuse it.  Diamond Tiara was essentially subjected to a (fairly minor) form of parental abuse, due to her mother's extremely high expectations, coupled with her own confusion and lack of understanding of her role in the world.

 

The CMC, having found out about her home life chose to forgive her, but that forgiveness does not mean that her bullying behaviour was acceptable, it was however, understandable.

[crispy fries 432]

Not in my eyes. It was way too quick. If you always establish a character as bad for that long, then you can't just have a snap redemption. At least there's some time to have her make amends and develop more, unlike Starlight Glimmer, whose redemption was very poorly done.

Edited March 17, 2016 by crispy fries

[cmarston1 5,960]

I wouldn't really say so.

I never really cared much for her character before hand so there wasn't a lot she had to prove to me as a character.

I did like her reformation even if it was a bit fast and it even reminded me of Pacifica from Gravity Falls.

But I would still like to see her actually struggle a bit with her new being nice and all and gain acceptance and all that kind of jazz, because there is still more to do with her redemption arch rather than just that one episode.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

Definitely not as one episode was much too quickly for a full buildup and payoff. In addition, her mother came in out of left field as a last-minute justification for DT's bullying behavior; a character that was never mentioned or implicated in previous events, 100% stereotypical in characterization, and a get-out-of-conflict-free card that enables blame for DT's attitude to be shifted rather than to spend the time identifying the flaws in DT's character.

 

Seeing as how an inordinate ego is still a part of DT's character after her reformation (considering how her special talent is getting others to do what she wants), there's plenty of room still there for a comprehensive reformation arc that would see her join forces more with the Crusaders. I cannot see how that alone can be a positive "special talent" until she demonstrates some serious leadership skills and uses her self-confidence and social connections for good more often.

[AtomicStone 724]

Perhaps we will see an episode where Diamond tiara learns a lesson of her past mistakes and the steps that she takes to make it all right.

[Luminance 2,186]

Diamond Tiara's reformation was a rather quick one for me. I'm still convinced that she'll still have her snark, because that's part of her character. Imagine if Diamond Tiara were to be a sweet little angel from now on, and that will indefinitely kill off her characterization. I want to see her fight for what's right, and not lose herself in the process.

[bluseymoe 258]

Not until she shows some true remorse for the way she hurt Scootaloo in Flight to the Finish. That was pure evil. A heartfelt, genuine apology scene would win her my respect.

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

NO! 

 

Okay not really is what I mean.  I buy her turn to good far more than Starlight's Hail Mary conversion since she's been living with her mother and the pressure she was put under for years, and I do feel sorry for her in that regard, but she still should face the consequences of her previous bitch behavior.  That's a big problem I have with the redemption in Season 5, everyone is insta forgiven. All previous actions are rendered moot by some unseen background that undoes all their back deeds.  Sunset Shimmer and Discord, heck even Luna, had some from of negative repercussions to their dark deeds, weather they be inflicted upon them by other, by a lack of connecting with other or them being self inflicted, they still had to deal with them. With Gilda, Diamond and Starlight, it's just comes across as "Oh you had a shit background, you being a dick is not your fault and you're really good. Let's be friends!"  So anyways back to the topic at hand, Diamond Tiara is not vindicated in my eyes but she has the chance to be if the writing staff can follow up with her dealing with the past in a unique way and I look forward to seeing what they may do with the character. 

[SolyWack 482]

Not at all. Sunset Shimmer wasn't forgiven, and her past was frequently brought up. Same with Discord. Diamond Tiara insulted Scootaloo's disability, and that's just awful. I think She should have to earn everyone's forgiveness. I would imagine that she would be blamed for things that she didn't do because of her past, or the foals distrust her. If the foals trust her completely, it wouldn't make any sense. To most of the foals, Diamond Tiara suddenly became nice. That would raise a red flag for anyone. The CMC know what's up, but the other foals don't. Maybe she can do something to earn everyone's forgiveness, like Sunset Shimmer did, but as of now, she is not vindicated.

I don't think it's fair to not forgive DT just because Sunset wasn't forgiven. We want a world were everyone is treated equally, but equally *bad* is not the way to go either. We should judge DT as an isolated case.

 

In which case, I would say I forgive her. She used to be a piece, but she is trying to make up for it. I don't think we should stop someone from pursuing a new life by punishing them for the old one.

[geartree 33]

She's a kid guys. Kids will do dumb things to imprrss their friends (silver spoon) and her mother also influenced her. So if you say not, then I don't know what else to say.

NO! 

 

Okay not really is what I mean.  I buy her turn to good far more than Starlight's Hail Mary conversion since she's been living with her mother and the pressure she was put under for years, and I do feel sorry for her in that regard, but she still should face the consequences of her previous bitch behavior.  That's a big problem I have with the redemption in Season 5, everyone is insta forgiven. All previous actions are rendered moot by some unseen background that undoes all their back deeds.  Sunset Shimmer and Discord, heck even Luna, had some from of negative repercussions to their dark deeds, weather they be inflicted upon them by other, by a lack of connecting with other or them being self inflicted, they still had to deal with them. With Gilda, Diamond and Starlight, it's just comes across as "Oh you had a shit background, you being a dick is not your fault and you're really good. Let's be friends!"  So anyways back to the topic at hand, Diamond Tiara is not vindicated in my eyes but she has the chance to be if the writing staff can follow up with her dealing with the past in a unique way and I look forward to seeing what they may do with the character.

 

Consequences? Her mother made her mean, and the parents should be the ones who discipline a small child like DT, yet she realized she was being taught wrong.

[mars 4,863]

I always liked Diamond Tiara, so her getting a redemption hasn't changed my opinion in the slightest.

[Rainbow Diamonds 282]

I don't think it's fair to not forgive DT just because Sunset wasn't forgiven. We want a world were everyone is treated equally, but equally *bad* is not the way to go either. We should judge DT as an isolated case.

 

In which case, I would say I forgive her. She used to be a piece, but she is trying to make up for it. I don't think we should stop someone from pursuing a new life by punishing them for the old one.

If she proves that she truly is reformed, then I will forgive her. 

[Castle Bleck 19,387]

People, regardless of {...} mental capacity {...}, are ultimately responsible for their own actions,

 

About ^that: http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=8185025

 

Responsibility pretty much goes hand-in-hand with mental capacity.

[cider float 2,539]

Her reformation was just another reason why this show is degenerating into nothing but a show for little girls.

[cybershocker455 324]

Her reformation was just another reason why this show is degenerating into nothing but a show for little girls.

Positive as always, chap.

[Concerned Bystander 2,904]

 

 

Responsibility pretty much goes hand-in-hand with mental capacity.

 

I don't want to derail this topic or get mired in a pointless discussion of legal terminology, so I'm going to explain what I mean in as simplistic a way as I can.

 

By responsibility, I mean whether or not the person in question did the thing in question.

By accountability, I mean whether or not the person in question is held to blame for the doing the thing in question

 

Schizophrenia (for example) is an illness, not a free thinking entity.  Schizophrenia cannot lift a knife and stab someone.  If Fred suffers from Schizophrenia, then the condition may have led him to the point where he stabbed someone, but it was still Fred that picked up, and wielded, the knife.  Fred committed the act, the act could not have happened without Fred, Fred is responsible for the act.  A court of law may find him not accountable for the act due to his illness, but that is a whole other matter, and as I previously stated I'm not interested in stooping to a debate on semantics or the legalistic nuances of the words I used, not least because it will inevitably result in the thread being drawn way off topic.

 

 

To put that into the context of the actual topic, regardless of how badly Diamond Tiara has been raised, she still behaved like a bully, she freely chose to act in a malicious manner.  Even though her behaviour was motivated by the poor example set by her parents, we can see from her song that she is well aware that she is in the wrong, and wants to change her ways.  The CMC, by virtue of their rather more benevolent upbringing, chose to not hold her to account for her previous behaviour, and instead forgave her, and as the maligned party they were certainly within their rights to do so.

 

People have been saying a lot that her reformation (along with that of almost every other character) was too quick.  I would agree in part, but also disagree, we never actually saw her reform, we only saw her reach the decision that she needs to .  Reformation is a process after all, and what we have seen is DT take the first step of that process, she has acknowledged that she has a problem.  In doing so, it is easy for her to change her behaviour in the very short term, but what I would hope to see now is her follow through from the realisation  and continue on the new path that she has chosen for herself, a few bumps and setbacks along the way would be expected, but I very much doubt there will be enough focus on her for us to see the trials that she goes through, instead I'm sure we'll only see her in her best moments.

[Aurora Storm 83]

She's just a filly and is still developing  her personality. She learned and lesson and maybe need some more reminders and help along the way, but I think as long as she continues to try and break old habits there's no reason not to forgive her. In school I knew people like her who were mean and then something happened to them and they changed their ways. It can happen, and the best way to encourage it is to continue is to give them a chance, cautiously at first, but still let them try.