Is it weird that Twilight hasn't shown interest in the ToH?

[ManaMinori 4,144]

Oddly enough, this eager to learn egghead has shown far more interest in Griffon culture and potential for their getting cutie marks than she has for the Tree, why it had her (and Sunbutt/Luna's) cutie marks on it, it's possible sentience in issuing the Rainbow Powers, and cutie map, and it's directing her and her friends. There's zero interest seen from Twilight on the how and why's of all of this, and as seen in "the lost treasure of Griffinstone", she just accepts this defeatest attitude of "the map (tree, by extension) wants what the map/tree wants, and far be it for me to argue or even research as to how and why"

 

Anyone else irked by this lack of opportunity for DHX to delve into the origins and workings of the Tree of Harmony, especially when it's clearly something higher and of more importance than Twilight, Subutt, and Luna combined?

[Thrond 3,257]

As irritated as I am about the lack of explanation for the map, I would rather they don't delve further into the Tree of Harmony, for the simple reason that I never want to see that thing again. I think I was too busy being irked by the blatant suggestion that Twilight's own choices didn't matter (as - given the presence of Twilight's cutie mark on the tree in the flashback - it was clearly predestined) to be concerned about how Twilight never expressed any curiosity about it, but it probably helps that the damn thing has barely any appearances. But while it's clearly powerful and ancient and thus "important," I'm relatively satisfied with its apperances, as it's only really shown up for the purposes of the mane six's character arcs - as it should be. I basically just consider it a development for the recurring themes of season 4 above all else, and honestly, that the mane six even cared about the keys in the first place strikes me as them at least expressing curiosity about the box. 

 

The map, meanwhile, has been a running staple of two seasons now, and the mane six just obey its summons based seemingly on curiosity and confirmation bias above all else, never once questioning anything about it. It really makes the map seem like a plot convenience more than anything - an excuse for two ponies to be in one place. Now THAT is something which I'd like to see questioned, especially if the writers are intent on making it a regular fixture of the show. 

[HereComesTom 2,234]

There's room for expanding the worldbuilding with the Tree of Harmony to be sure, and it'd totally be in Twilight's character to examine it.

 

That being said, maybe Twilight's a little too entangled in princessy things to have time to investigate it fully?  I dunno...or maybe she's already investigated it offscreen, and there just isn't anything plot-related to explain about it in front of the camera (so to speak)?  I'm pulling these explanations out of the air; while I think they're half-plausible, I also think a good episode or two exploring this would be a good idea.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I think the reason there's been no touching on the tree of harmony is that the writers either DON'T KNOW what to do with it, or are saving it for the movie.

 

I get the feeling it might be like starswirl's spell that made twilight an alicorn: No point to it except as a plot device to get rid of the EOH; and lets not kid ourselves, the S4 premier seemed pretty well designed to remove the EOH as a specific plot device to "nerf" the mane six so to speak. The EOH were an instant win condition, and ran into plot problems (like why they didn't use them in crystal empire), so they had to get rid of them, and the tree of harmony was the plot device to do that. Now they rely on far more esoteric and temporary power ups like rainbow power to save the day (or not having one in the first place like the last 3 two parters), or concrete "finite" power ups like

Giving them defined super powers in LOE

 

 

So there's no overarching plan, there's no set lore, there's nothing they have charted out for the tree: it served its purpose, and now its just there to occasionally be referenced for the table.

 

 

 

On that note, the removal of the EOH is one of the reason I feel the other 5 have been relegated to cameo positions, more or less, for the last 2 two two parters (and the upcoming one); they've powered up other characters (like twilight and starlight) so much that the only thing keeping the other 5 relevent at all in adventure scenarios was a connection to the EOH--its like having super saiyans on the team and the only time you have the non-super saiyans contribute is when they're tied to a non-combat win condition (the EOH). Without that macguffin guarantee, the others fade into the background.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Unlikeable Pony

[LyricaDreamy 42]

There is no such thing as TOH in book history the only thing it mention is EOH in some ponytail book.

[Justin_Case001 4,858]

its like having super saiyans on the team and the only time you have the non-super saiyans contribute is when they're tied to a non-combat win condition (the EOH). Without that macguffin guarantee, the others fade into the background.

Lol.  Twilight = Goku.  Other mane 5 = Krillin.  Just stand there and watch, what else are they gonna do?

 

In many ways, in a LOT of ways, I wish that they had had a very strict, continuous lore written out before the get-go of the entire show.  I wish the universe and everything it was clearly defined.  It's such a great show, but I've always wanted more continuous lore, complete with backstory, specifically because the show and universe are easily capable of supporting it.

 

I do wish that the tree and the map would be explained more, but on the other hoof, I think I side even more with @AlexanderThrond; I've always been annoyed at the predetermined fate idea surrounding the tree, as well as the role of the tree, the elements, and the map, all as plot devices.  One could argue that much of the show is a contrivance of plot devices on top of plot devices, with new plot devices being contrived to eliminate obsolete plot devices that can't be destroyed any other way.  It's like a mess of software code with new code being dumped in to try to fix the old code.  Or it's like that new Windows Update that removes the Get Windows 10 App.  Geeziz Krighst, that thing shouldn't have existed in the first place! 

 

I guess at some point, almost everything becomes a plot device until the phrase loses all meaning.

 

I might as well take this opportunity to once again state my hatred of the cutie map.  It's always bothered me that they obey its summons without question.  It appears as if they are enslaved to it, in a manner of speaking.  Can Twilight turn it off?  What happens if they don't answer its summons?  None of them asked for this burden.  They had it thrust upon them.  What if they simply couldn't answer its summons, or didn't want to, due to other obligations.  Lest we forget they all have careers and LIVES.  It's unethical to force them to be superheroes just because they happened to be kind, funny, honest, loyal, and generous.

 

I've joked multiple times about my far-out headcanon that the elements and the map are part of a DAEMON created by Starswirl that has been running since his death.  It's pretty crazy, but it's actually the best explanation I've heard for the castle and the map.  The popular theory seems to be that the tree, the elements, and the map are all sentient and intelligent, which I don't care for.  That just makes them even more far fetched in my opinion, as well as making them even more important than they should be.  I subscribe to me DAEMON theory.  Every unexplained event on the show that was connected to the elements in any way was a DAEMON event programmed by Starswirl.

[cmarston1 5,952]

I would like to get some clarification on the history of the Tree of Harmony and possibly the map, preferably in the movie. But I don't think we are going to see that happen sadly.

[ManaMinori 4,144]

There's room for expanding the worldbuilding with the Tree of Harmony to be sure, and it'd totally be in Twilight's character to examine it.

 

That being said, maybe Twilight's a little too entangled in princessy things to have time to investigate it fully?  I dunno...or maybe she's already investigated it offscreen, and there just isn't anything plot-related to explain about it in front of the camera (so to speak)?  I'm pulling these explanations out of the air; while I think they're half-plausible, I also think a good episode or two exploring this would be a good idea.

like heck she's entangled in princess things to be too busy to investigate!

Who was it, again, who was whining of being bored, not too long ago?

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

 

I might as well take this opportunity to once again state my hatred of the cutie map.  It's always bothered me that they obey its summons without question.  It appears as if they are enslaved to it, in a manner of speaking.  Can Twilight turn it off?  What happens if they don't answer its summons?  None of them asked for this burden.  They had it thrust upon them.  What if they simply couldn't answer its summons, or didn't want to, due to other obligations.  Lest we forget they all have careers and LIVES.  It's unethical to force them to be superheroes just because they happened to be kind, funny, honest, loyal, and generous.

 

 

To be fair here, they "chose" to be bound to the map when they kept choosing to be bound to the EOH-- the Map is just another version of the EOH (An inferior version I might at), and since they've been choosing to keep being element bearers up to this point, its not really THAT out of nowhere for them.

They could have walked away from the EOH anytime beforehand when it was just jewelry after all and they didn't

 

 

I dislike the map, but for entirely different reasons.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Unlikeable Pony

[snowflame 189]

As irritated as I am about the lack of explanation for the map, I would rather they don't delve further into the Tree of Harmony, for the simple reason that I never want to see that thing again. I think I was too busy being irked by the blatant suggestion that Twilight's own choices didn't matter (as - given the presence of Twilight's cutie mark on the tree in the flashback - it was clearly predestined) to be concerned about how Twilight never expressed any curiosity about it, but it probably helps that the damn thing has barely any appearances. But while it's clearly powerful and ancient and thus "important," I'm relatively satisfied with its apperances, as it's only really shown up for the purposes of the mane six's character arcs - as it should be. I basically just consider it a development for the recurring themes of season 4 above all else, and honestly, that the mane six even cared about the keys in the first place strikes me as them at least expressing curiosity about the box.

 

The map, meanwhile, has been a running staple of two seasons now, and the mane six just obey its summons based seemingly on curiosity and confirmation bias above all else, never once questioning anything about it. It really makes the map seem like a plot convenience more than anything - an excuse for two ponies to be in one place. Now THAT is something which I'd like to see questioned, especially if the writers are intent on making it a regular fixture of the show.

Just because Twilight has potential to be the element of magic shown as her cutie mark it does not mean she will reach it or be predestined to nothing else like shown in Cutie Ramark. Besides the Cutie Mark and the Three of Harmony could show the universal symbol of Magic anyway and not something spesific. Edited September 22, 2016 by snowflame

[Thrond 3,257]

In many ways, in a LOT of ways, I wish that they had had a very strict, continuous lore written out before the get-go of the entire show.  I wish the universe and everything it was clearly defined.  It's such a great show, but I've always wanted more continuous lore, complete with backstory, specifically because the show and universe are easily capable of supporting it.

In a show like this, which is heavily character-focused with a significant slice-of-life component, I'm not entirely sure if the lore is quite necessary enough to most of the show's storylines to be so continuous and fleshed-out. I can't deny that it'd be fun if there were such a lore, but I can't think of any reason why that would be high priority for the writing team, due to the combination of the show's structure and the show's audience. 

 

 

I might as well take this opportunity to once again state my hatred of the cutie map.  It's always bothered me that they obey its summons without question.  It appears as if they are enslaved to it, in a manner of speaking.  Can Twilight turn it off?  What happens if they don't answer its summons?  None of them asked for this burden.  They had it thrust upon them.  What if they simply couldn't answer its summons, or didn't want to, due to other obligations.  Lest we forget they all have careers and LIVES.  It's unethical to force them to be superheroes just because they happened to be kind, funny, honest, loyal, and generous.

I've always sort of assumed that they follow the map's instructions because they want to, and to an extent I understand that - they like helping people, and the map has consistently led them to communities with serious problems. But what is the map? Why is it sending them? How does it work? Where does it come from? The six questioned it in "Viva Las Pegasus," but why are they seemingly taking it entirely on faith? I need some reason for this thing to exist, something which doesn't make it seem like a convenient excuse for things to happen. The Elements of Harmony are given something of a lore explanation, and even the Tree of Harmony is intentionally enigmatic, but the map just sort of sits there and expects us never to ask questions. 

 

 

Just because Twilight has potential to be the element of magic shown as her cutie mark it does not mean she will reach it or be predestined to nothing else like shown in Cutie Ramark. Besides the Cutie Mark and the Three of Harmony could show the universal symbol of Magic anyway and not something spesific.

This would be easier to swallow if:

1. "Magical Mystery Cure" had not already had strong predestination overtones. 
2. The tree had not only appeared in episodes about her role as a princess. 
3. We had seen that specific symbol anywhere other than Twilight's cutie mark and the tree. 
4. The show hadn't specifically identified the tree with Twilight's cutie mark.
5. We'd seen an alternate Twilight at any point in "The Cutie Re-Mark."

"The Cutie Re-Mark" does dispel the show's predestination undertones a little, but it can't mask just how intensely certain episodes lean on that idea of predetermined destiny. 

[Goat-kun 2,500]

She doesn’t have enough Insight. Get her to 40 and she’ll see some crazy shit.

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

The "destiny" ship sailed WAAAAAY before the map ever came into play. Cutie Mark Chronicles, Magical Mystery Cure for a start...

[Thrond 3,257]

The "destiny" ship sailed WAAAAAY before the map ever came into play. Cutie Mark Chronicles, Magical Mystery Cure for a start...

I remember "Cutie Mark Chronicles" being more about finding your passion, but "Magical Mystery Cure" is even worse in that regard.

[KatonRyu 1,026]

I've always had the feeling that plot-relevant items only really show up in the opening and ending episodes of any given Season. Honestly, Season 4's handling of the keys was probably the best way I've seen them handle overarching plot stuff in regular episodes. I've also wondered why Twilight didn't bother to research the Elements of Harmony more before the Tree made its appearance. In-universe, I really don't see a reason for it. Out-of-universe, the writers have openly stated continuity was never their main focus, so I guess it can't be helped that elements will be introduced that get no explanation other than 'this is another form of weaponized friendship, zap zap boom'.

 

My headcanon on the matter is that Celestia flat-out told Twilight not to look into it at the time, and Twilight obeyed. I truthfully haven't come up with a reason for Celestia to do that yet, but it's something I could see her doing in her 'enigmatic mentor' role.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

It'd be nice if they did more lore intensive stuff, but that generally only shows up in adventure themed episodes, and the season has strayed away a bit from that this season. Given the GOH toyline, it'd be nice if they bumped up the number of adventure themed episodes to more like 33% with more ongoing lore exploration.

[ManaMinori 4,144]

I remember "Cutie Mark Chronicles" being more about finding your passion, but "Magical Mystery Cure" is even worse in that regard.

magical mystery cure was nothing but a hot mess, and didn't give answer to much of anything

Don't even get me started

[cider float 2,536]

I think there's just things Twilight wouldn't touch without a reason like understanding dragons or the Tree of Harmony.

[heavens-champion 1,893]

magical mystery cure was nothing but a hot mess, and didn't give answer to much of anything

Don't even get me started

I think the reason was because there were too many songs.

[Midnight Oil 5]

I have a theory that the Tree is sentient. So it could be suppressing Twilight's curiosity about it. Like the SEP Field from HGTTG.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Midnight Oil