general Why Does Autism Get So Much Flak?

[JonasDarkmane 19,777]

2 minutes ago, ShadOBabe said:

If you want ACTUAL conversation, you need to work coming off as more sincere and less smarmy. Because you don't look like you're interested in an actual conversation, you look like you're deliberately attempting to be needling towards someone who is obviously emotionally invested in a topic.

Ooooor, I might be trying to invest myself into this conversation a bit as well by voicing my honest opinions and also interjecting at what I don't think will actually help the situation, but only exasperate it. I mean, what are we doing now? Having a conversation, right? And I have to say, I am very interested in an actual conversation, especially since I have been responding to every point you have made. Whether someone is more emotionally invested in something or not does not really change a thing though. I don't have any less right to talk, do I? 

I am not taking any mental jabs at you Shado, I tell you that to try and diffuse whatever you may think I am trying to do. I am here for an honest conversation and it is that I think it is rather ridiculous to use "autism" as a word of insult, but I just simply disagree with putting those who use it into some kind of a box. 

 

6 minutes ago, ShadOBabe said:

I will agree with you on the elitism towards "uneducated" though. You are correct. One can indeed be the most educated person in the world, but it still wouldn't buy them sense or kindness.

So how about this... I will no longer say that people that use autism as an insult are uneducated. They MIGHT be, but it doesn't matter either way. What matters is that they're still insensitve and still a dolt for doing it and should really just not do it anymore.

I agree with you 100% 

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

1 minute ago, JonasDarkmane said:

Whether someone is more emotionally invested in something or not does not really change a thing though. I don't have any less right to talk, do I?

Oh you totally have a right to talk, but HOW you talk is going to net you different results. If you had just started off the conversation with "I dont think we should used the term 'uneducated' to describe people that do this. I dislike the modern bias against those with less formal education, because even the most educated of people could still be a jerkwad who uses "autism" as an insult. Because academic education does not bestow a person with common sense OR common courtesy."

If you had said something like that, then I would have IMMEDIATELY agreed with you, and none of the previous argument would have ever happened.

But instead you started off with "maybe YOU'RE uneducated" and then pulled out the Star Wars memes. Perhaps it's the aforementioned autism, but I much perfer the direct and sincere approach. Just get your point in an efficient manner instead of dancing around in circles.

You have the right to speak however you want, but you don't get to act surprised when people don't respond well to your teasing.

[JonasDarkmane 19,777]

2 minutes ago, ShadOBabe said:

Oh you totally have a right to talk, but HOW you talk is going to net you different results. If you had just started off the conversation with "I dont think we should used the term 'uneducated' to describe people that do this. I dislike the modern bias against those with less formal education, because even the most educated of people could still be a jerkwad who uses "autism" as an insult. Because academic education does not bestow a person with common sense OR common courtesy."

If you had said something like that, then I would have IMMEDIATELY agreed with you, and none of the previous argument would have ever happened.

Oh definitely. In hindsight, that would definitely have been a better way to go about it. 

 

3 minutes ago, ShadOBabe said:

But instead you started off with "maybe YOU'RE uneducated" and then pulled out the Star Wars memes. Perhaps it's the aforementioned autism, but I much perfer the direct and sincere approach. Just get your point in an efficient manner instead of dancing around in circles.

My line started with shock and then came the explanation. 

It was followed by something like this, was it not? 

You just fell into the same trap as those who use the word "autistic" as an insult. Your own academic prowess doesn't necessarily mean anything to another person, especially not if you use it as a way to denigrate another person. 

 

As for the Star Wars meme, you presented too much of an absolutist approach that knocking some common sense with a commonly known and relatable movie quote did seem like a rather viable way of approaching things. 
If there is a philosophy I hold, it is that conversations lead to understanding. Misunderstandings will happen in the beginning, but understanding will be reached in the end. Sometimes "getting your point in an efficient manner" is exactly what you think you are doing. 

7 minutes ago, ShadOBabe said:

You have the right to speak however you want, but you don't get to act surprised when people don't respond well to your teasing.

Well, people can act surprised if they want. But it is up to you what you term as "teasing" and whatnot. I would suggest being more prepared to have your views/arguments challenged than try and look for any preconceived slights against your character. 

I'm not telling you that my own words did not come out as you yourself experienced them, but I don't think you have accurately portrayed my intentions or what I was truly saying with my posts. But this is getting off-topic. 

[Silenz Veritas 171]

I think it's because people tend to fear and mock things they don't understand. And people who are 'different' in any way.

People use 'retard' as an insult and they use it to refer to a pretty vast selection of folks.  People use 'gay' as an insult.

It's easier to marginalize those that are different than make an effort to understand and have compassion (it's not RIGHT, but it is easier).

I also think that it's because autism has become more visible in the last decade or so. There have probably been autistic people throughout history but I know even when I was growing up, I didn't hear the word autism until I was older.  So, people get fixated on one extreme example of something, label everything related as being the same and smugly insult an entire group because they fancy themselves superior and insulting other people somehow make them feel better about themselves.

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Silenz Veritas

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

22 minutes ago, JonasDarkmane said:

I'm not telling you that my own words did not come out as you yourself experienced them, but I don't think you have accurately portrayed my intentions or what I was truly saying with my posts. But this is getting off-topic. 

No, I obviously completely misread your intentions. Because as it turned out we both completely agreed with each other, we just didn't know it because you came off as belittling. Don't do the shock thing. It's not necessary, only gets others riled up, and you only get one shot at a first impression. And you need to be really careful with that first impression when it looks like you're about to take the side of someone who uses ableist comments.

Build bridges first. When you want to convince people, you need to look like you're on their side. Once you have their trust, then you can start attempting to change their thought processes. Don't just Leroy Jenkins your way into a conversation, or you will look like a new antagonist to the already affronted audience.

22 minutes ago, JonasDarkmane said:

But this is getting off-topic. 

This has been psychology with ShadOBabe. For our next lesson, we will learn that subtly mimicking the body language of a person you're interacting with makes them more receptive towards you.

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by ShadOBabe

[honk friend 1,972]

because people are ableist assholes, that's really all there is to it

it's pretty much the same reason cringe culture is so shit, people are so insecure that they'll gawk at anything different to feel "normal"

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

Guys; just a friendly reminder to stay on topic. I recognize the fact that discussions and debates will often times evolve into something else, even though still related, but let's focus on the starting point of the discussion before going too far off.

Thank you, and cheers!

[Olly 1,008]

Loudness, brashness, missing social cues, not understanding sarcasm, unconventional humor, misguided anger. These are the negative aspects that make life difficult for autistic people, and sometimes those around them. Autism has positives too- but some aspects of it stand out in unpleasant ways.

[AlbaTross 1,581]

I don't know, but it needs to stop, and definitely shouldn't be tolerated in forum discussion.  I've even heard the term "autistic" used in a self-deprecating way such as when one of my favourite Brony youtubers, DWK, uses it.  I can put up with it in the context he uses it in, but part of me still wishes he could find alternatives.  

It certainly sounds like most people who use autism as a derogatory term are uninformed and generally don't mean for it to be taken beyond a slight insult, but thus is the case of a lot of slang put-downs.  It's also likely that the majority who use the term in that sense aren't on the autism spectrum and don't personally know anyone who is.  

Perhaps autism is merely the latest victim of the worst side of contemporary jargon.  Terms like "that's so gay" or "that's retarded" don't seem to be the flavour of the day anymore, and although autism does seem to be used in a slightly different context it's not only possible but highly likely that its use as an insult will eventually pass.  In fact, it's a near-certainty.  Still, it is possible to accelerate its steady decline in colloquial usage by making it clear that such usage of the term has no place in common discussion.  Such disdain can be enforced through rules or norms.  Either could help achieve the desired end.

[Earl Grey Ghost 444]

I can honestly say I don't like it used as an insulting term. I have a friend who as Asphergers and when I heard someone use it in a negative manner, I got on their case quickly. Unfortunately they just rolled their eyes and said that they didn't understand why I was upset. I gave up with that. Sure, I'll admit, I've used the term "that's so gay." and still do from time to time, but I'M GAY, and I know when someone is using it as an insult AT me, or when it's just used as a funny term. I can't tell you how many gay people I know that say "that's so gay." It comes down to very muddy context that people will misuse then go to great lengths to defend. 

I do not agree with using "autistic" as an insult, and I will never use it as such. But as for the "gay" thing, honey, I earned  the right to say that, and if I wanna say it, I'm going to. However, if I run across someone that *does not* find that comfortable with them, I will not use it around them.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Memento Mori

[Here No Longer 5,270]

It's an easy thing to use as an insult, simply enough. Most (not all) autistic people are mentally challenged, and most people can't relate to people with autism.

 

I think it is sickening personally, considering how I'm tired of ridiculous, immature insults like these. It really doesn't help my strong belief that I am autistic, and how I've already had to deal with this because of my sexual orientation. I've also had overweight and mentally challenged friends who have gotten insulted in similar fashion.