Why are jerks and bullies more hated than the actual villains?

[eddeams 66]

One thing I noticed among the brony community is that the villains are largely beloved while the more petty jerk characters are widely hated. Despite the former committing more real crimes than the latter. Prince Blueblood and Diamond Tiara (before her redemption) are the biggest examples by far.

Why is this even the case? What is it about jerks and bullies that rile up people that even villains don't?

[Megas 27,625]

They hit too close to home. We all know a Blueblood or DT in real life. we'll never meet someone like NMM, Queen Chrysalis or Tirek, they're too fantastical

Edited December 5, 2022 by Megas

[J.J 923]

30 minutes ago, eddeams said:

One thing I noticed among the brony community is that the villains are largely beloved while the more petty jerk characters are widely hated. Despite the former committing more real crimes than the latter. Prince Blueblood and Diamond Tiara (before her redemption) are the biggest examples by far.

Why is this even the case? What is it about jerks and bullies that rile up people that even villains don't?

Charicature, a lot of people in "real life"(lol) are portrayed as villains for the convenience of others, it's always easier for people to portray themselves as some kind of rising hero coming out of the adversity of prejudice when in reality the person they are coming against has faced it 1000 times worse than they have usually and they don't want to make concessions, everyone irl thinks like Starswirl when it comes to "pride and prejudice" "come against me, you're immediately evil, make me slightly uncomfortable you're a bully." People just have sissy feather paper skin largely... And people ROMANTICIZE PSYCHOPATHY, largely bc these people are something I call "harmless psychopaths" they have violent or painful fantasies about other people, especially about these "bullies" that are way better humans than them in reality, but they repress their psychotic urges and convey them in a manipulative light then makes them look morally righteous so they can socially alienate the already alienated individual as a form of revenge bc they don't want to right the misunderstanding and they don't want to genuinely help this person progress, they want an imaginary villain they can gang up on together and "bully" to create this hypocritical never ending cycle of contradiction that they help serve by isolating the "bully", defaming him, slandering him, etc...

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

We all have had real encounters with these types of characters. That's why it hits so hard. Imagine if a bully picks on your most sensitive friend, like Gilda did to Fluttershy. A lot of bronies raged because they can relate to that. Empathy and compassion play a role in these situations. 

[They call me Loyalty 1,948]

It is something that can be uncomfortably familiar for some people. But it is a troubling reminder as well. Since abusive behaviours are often carried from home. So, there is no clear answer. Other than to fight violence with more violence. Which is how the problem started to begin with.

It is a sensitive subject in this family. Especially because some genetic defects that inceased the likelihood of becoming the target of bullying. So, welcome to the jungle.

[RDDash 19,173]

Because good is dumb. 

I mean like, you can say that we like villains because they are relatable to humans unlike heroes who are portrayed as near perfect beings. Jerks are flawed characters that means people can relate to them. (Prince Blueblood only exists because of Rarity and does not serve any other purpose)

And to be perfectly fair nobody really likes bullies 

Edited December 5, 2022 by RDDash

[Sparklefan1234 170,623]

 

I think it's because jerks and bullies are real while villains are usually exaggerated. I hope I answered this correctly. 

 

23 minutes ago, RDDash said:

Because good is dumb. 

 *Bleh* 

[Pentium100 2,122]

I think this has multiple reasons, at least in my opinion. What are the differences between a major villain (Nightmare Moon) and a bully (Diamond Tiara)?

Goals:
1. Nightmare Moon wants to take over the world. While most people do not want that, I think that "wanting to be rich and powerful" is something a lot of people can identify with, even if they would not do it the way she is doing. Basically they can at least respect her. It does not look like the goal of Nightmare Moon is to just make ponies suffer.
2. Diamond Tiara just gets enjoyment out of tormenting other children (it's not like she is going to gain anything tangible from it). Fewer people can identify with this. 

What people are affected:
1. With Nightmare Moon in power, everyone would be affected (by the change in government etc) and at the same time most ponies probably would not be affected (individually). Probably lots of ponies would continue to live their lives very similarly to before, go to work, etc. For this, I assume that eternal night would not result in no food - NM would not want to rule over empty space, so she would figure out how to grow food etc at night (ponies have magic).
2. Diamond Tiara is singling a few ponies out. Also, she is tormenting other children - people usually dislike it when bad things are done to children.

Revenge/consequences:
1. Nightmare Moon got reformed (if she was taken over by some evil spirit, that spirit got killed or banished). Other villains get reformed, killed or imprisoned. It's OK if someone dreams of killing Nightmare Moon for all she tried to do.
2. Diamond Tiara just changes her mind and is instantly forgiven for everything she did. More so, if someone wished for her to be beaten up (for example), he would look like a bad person for wanting to beat up a little girl. I think this is a big part of the hatred - she does what she does, but you cannot really do anything to her in response - not because it is not physically possible, but because then you would be the villain for beating up a little girl.

[J.J 923]

19 minutes ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

 

I think it's because jerks and bullies are real while villains are usually exaggerated. I hope I answered this correctly. 

 

 *Bleh* 

Nah this world has no shortage of "villains" it's just nobody knows who they are bc they wear smarmy, exaggerated friendly disguises to hide from the general public as most psychopaths do, they completely project as someone they are not and nobody knows what's really going on behind closed doors...

I'm not going to advocate for bullying, but the dense majority of people that do it were usually indeed bullied themselves or are reinstating this recurring theme due to their own post trauma or insecurity from said accident... 

But no a lot of people want to exaggerate how bad a "bully" is sometimes to make themselves feel empowered morally and socially, when often times these "bullies" are just kind of self interested realists that others don't take time to understand... 

Everyone's helpless and powerless when it comes to dealing with real psychopaths that portray themselves as great people to manipulate and abuse others and use them for their own agendas, these people some times snake their way into people's homes to get to their children, hell in less severe cases even some "nice guys" are hypothetical psychopaths that use emotional manipulation to create social obligations from other people... to keep themselves relevant and to manipulate the social environment they corrupt...

Nah villains are really you just don't see them bc everyone is busy trying to gang up on people that usually can be easily humanized and dealt with correctly... People want to have people to hate, and some people that like being hated thrive off the attention the "harmless psychopaths" give them.

[EpicEnergy 23,218]

That is a good perception, but I do not think that it is true in many situations, because it really depends on the characters you are comparing with each other. Some villains are hated more than some jerks/bullies, and vice versa.

49 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

I think this has multiple reasons, at least in my opinion.

I do as well, but there is one specific reason that I think is the most important determining factor for whether someone hates a villain more than a jerk/bully - has the individual making the assessment of the characters had any previous experiences with those who behave like the characters? This is one of the most important questions to ask because it determines if the individual can relate to the character. For example, say the individual was bullied and the character was a bully - there would be a higher chance for the individual to develop hate towards that character. Or in another scenario, say that individual had an abusive childhood and the character also experienced that - there would be a higher probability for the individual to like that character.

Also, I think that the reasons you listed are also good explanations as to why Diamond Tiara is hated while Nightmare Moon is loved.

[J.J 923]

1 hour ago, Pentium100 said:

I think this has multiple reasons, at least in my opinion. What are the differences between a major villain (Nightmare Moon) and a bully (Diamond Tiara)?

Goals:
1. Nightmare Moon wants to take over the world. While most people do not want that, I think that "wanting to be rich and powerful" is something a lot of people can identify with, even if they would not do it the way she is doing. Basically they can at least respect her. It does not look like the goal of Nightmare Moon is to just make ponies suffer.
2. Diamond Tiara just gets enjoyment out of tormenting other children (it's not like she is going to gain anything tangible from it). Fewer people can identify with this. 

What people are affected:
1. With Nightmare Moon in power, everyone would be affected (by the change in government etc) and at the same time most ponies probably would not be affected (individually). Probably lots of ponies would continue to live their lives very similarly to before, go to work, etc. For this, I assume that eternal night would not result in no food - NM would not want to rule over empty space, so she would figure out how to grow food etc at night (ponies have magic).
2. Diamond Tiara is singling a few ponies out. Also, she is tormenting other children - people usually dislike it when bad things are done to children.

Revenge/consequences:
1. Nightmare Moon got reformed (if she was taken over by some evil spirit, that spirit got killed or banished). Other villains get reformed, killed or imprisoned. It's OK if someone dreams of killing Nightmare Moon for all she tried to do.
2. Diamond Tiara just changes her mind and is instantly forgiven for everything she did. More so, if someone wished for her to be beaten up (for example), he would look like a bad person for wanting to beat up a little girl. I think this is a big part of the hatred - she does what she does, but you cannot really do anything to her in response - not because it is not physically possible, but because then you would be the villain for beating up a little girl.

Uhhh duh yeah anyone that wants anyone to get beaten up that isn't criminal is a bad person? You do look like a bad person for wanting other people to be harmed?? And Diamond Tiara is a child herself? Are you that clueless to the way children interact in social environments?? Of course they vent those insecurities they have out on other children these are their peers, individuals that she can actually gain power or control over, unlike her literal parents? If you are a grown man that wants a little girl to get beat up in any way shape or form, you have twisted sadistic psychopath priorities and should be ashamed of yourself.

But how I was raised, if both these little girls want to get down, you know you make it happen, if they both agree, and you can make this a real confrontation at equal wits, have at it...

Side note NMM is my least favorite villain in the entire show for a multitude of reasons, and they give little background as to why she wanted to do what she did, uhh idk eternal night might ummm disrupt the entire balance of the known world, cause famine, lack of sunlight needed to even keep trees alive, let alone crop... But that's a side note... NMM was a horrendous failure of a villain, she came back trying to rule the world uses some little illusions after running off into the woods, gets destroyed by 6 ponies that literally just met, then she cries about it and gets forgiven... She's way more hateable to me than DT, she was literally PROVEN helpless, and continues to be useless as Luna...

But yeah not liking a character or a person I guess since everyone wants to vent out their blatant subliminal frustrations, doesnt take them down a peg inherently, there is nothing to say Scootaloo, Applebloom or Sweetie Belle could beat Diamond Tiara in a fight, that wasn't explored, but we know for a fact NMM/Luna is incapable... And if Big Mac wanted to fight Diamond Tiara, he's got serious effin issues....

Thinking someone's something doesn't make them that thing, even if you get all your friends involved into willing that perception of reality into reality... No reality is reality... 

Edit: Luna was instantly forgiven for trying to take over Equestria literally a second time and given the second highest position of power in Equestria?, her original punishment was obviously warranted? Her ambition would disrupt the entire balance if Equestria? 

[Pentium100 2,122]

8 hours ago, EpicEnergy said:

I do as well, but there is one specific reason that I think is the most important determining factor for whether someone hates a villain more than a jerk/bully - has the individual making the assessment of the characters had any previous experiences with those who behave like the characters?

Oh, this too, sure. Most people would not have interactions with the "big bad" - even if someone lives in a country ruled by a tyrant, he most likely will never meet that tyrant, only people who enforce his will (who most likely will act like jerks or bullies).

[Fluttershutter 2,456]

I notice this in all media. Darth Vader has plenty of fans. Bullies are just more personal.

[Ice Princess Silky <3 13,893]

Maybe because they're closer to redemption than the others? They're expressing their insecurities in destructive ways that could even MAKE future villains? Maybe a bully is more disappointing because you expect bad things from a villain but a bully... you see potential and hope... so it's like a betrayal when they choose to go against their true potentials?

[Sir Hugsalot 9,348]

Villains tend to target their enemies in non discriminatory manner. They don't look specifically for weaker individuals most of the time. They just have a goal that requires causing much harm to be completed. 

Bullies on the other hand are more cowardly, going after those who are weaker, sometimes even in group. They won't pick a fight they cannot win and they only win fights with sheer brute force, where villains often have competent, impressive plans (for example Emperor Palpatine). Also it's not a rare case that a bully is for example some 17 years old boy, while his victim is way younger, inflicting trauma for years to come. 

 

Also another thing is that villains in general, while being forces of malice feel more... distant in a way. A viewer despises the villain's actions most of the time, but they feel less personal as only few of us got to taste these actions personally. 

Bullies? Well, I had to deal with bullies and that makes me despise them by default. More people had at least one unfortunate interaction with one of those so of course we get far more aggrevated, because we experienced the specific thing that's happening in the story. It's easier to show a heavy dislike towards someone that resembles Your bully than towards someone, who tries to conquer the world to be a tyrant. 

[J.J 923]

9 minutes ago, Loves Mudalot said:

Villains tend to target their enemies in non discriminatory manner. They don't look specifically for weaker individuals most of the time. They just have a goal that requires causing much harm to be completed. 

Bullies on the other hand are more cowardly, going after those who are weaker, sometimes even in group. They won't pick a fight they cannot win and they only win fights with sheer brute force, where villains often have competent, impressive plans (for example Emperor Palpatine). Also it's not a rare case that a bully is for example some 17 years old boy, while his victim is way younger, inflicting trauma for years to come. 

 

Also another thing is that villains in general, while being forces of malice feel more... distant in a way. A viewer despises the villain's actions most of the time, but they feel less personal as only few of us got to taste these actions personally. 

Bullies? Well, I had to deal with bullies and that makes me despise them by default. More people had at least one unfortunate interaction with one of those so of course we get far more aggrevated, because we experienced the specific thing that's happening in the story. It's easier to show a heavy dislike towards someone that resembles Your bully than towards someone, who tries to conquer the world to be a tyrant. 

Relative to the true answer, villains have depth, philosophy, political or social purposes for their causes, they want to often influence an infrastructure, they have some kind of motive above soulless malice... It's just not all villains, some individuals are inherently evil... And the point is that most bullies aren't past redemption, they are just alienated victims themselves doing whatever they can to create relevancy among their peers bc they have been brought up in a less than appropriate social manner and they are lashing out bc of their own insecurity and using the pain of others to reassure their own relevance, it's like part of this "human" or ape like philosophy, everyone thinks the lion is apex for killing a baby gazelle, but scoffs at a cute badger that will stand its own up to a lion... Often times idolizing bullies as heros without even recognizing it.. and in children these kids see the popular, strong kid, as the authority or the "hero" all to often, lol James Potter xD 

People mis portray, all the time, they admire the big dumb monkey that everyone likes bc  "he's the strongest", in children bullying helps them establish themselves, but nah most bullies are actually admired not hated, ppl are just blind.

[Splashee 28,564]

15 hours ago, eddeams said:

One thing I noticed among the brony community is that the villains are largely beloved while the more petty jerk characters are widely hated. Despite the former committing more real crimes than the latter. Prince Blueblood and Diamond Tiara (before her redemption) are the biggest examples by far.

Why is this even the case? What is it about jerks and bullies that rile up people that even villains don't?

Because the bullies get away with it. It is kinda like IRL, sadly

 

Example: Principle Princess Twilight Sparkle doesn't see bullies at her school. She's blind. But she sees villains after they attack the school. She's still kinda blind but written that way (else the villains wouldn't have a chance to attack).

[Ice Princess Silky <3 13,893]

8 minutes ago, Splashee said:

Because the bullies get away with it. It is kinda like IRL, sadly

 

Example: Principle Princess Twilight Sparkle doesn't see bullies at her school. She's blind. But she sees villains after they attack the school. She's still kinda blind but written that way (else the villains wouldn't have a chance to attack).

*huggies the Splashee pony*

I agree with this, too....

[Splashee 28,564]

@Princess Silky Why can't I react to your posts?

 

[Ice Princess Silky <3 13,893]

4 hours ago, Splashee said:

@Princess Silky Why can't I react to your posts

Yes my friends have been telling me about this. And they're big sad 

or. should I say BUG sad? *gigglefits* 

I'll see my way out now... I feel the tomatoes flying in x3

[MichaelWFX 35]

22 hours ago, eddeams said:

One thing I noticed among the brony community is that the villains are largely beloved while the more petty jerk characters are widely hated. Despite the former committing more real crimes than the latter. Prince Blueblood and Diamond Tiara (before her redemption) are the biggest examples by far.

Why is this even the case? What is it about jerks and bullies that rile up people that even villains don't?

Because they act so annoying, it cringes me up so hard, at least the villains are entertaining 

[Sir Hugsalot 9,348]

16 hours ago, J.J said:

Relative to the true answer, villains have depth, philosophy, political or social purposes for their causes, they want to often influence an infrastructure, they have some kind of motive above soulless malice... It's just not all villains, some individuals are inherently evil... And the point is that most bullies aren't past redemption, they are just alienated victims themselves doing whatever they can to create relevancy among their peers bc they have been brought up in a less than appropriate social manner and they are lashing out bc of their own insecurity and using the pain of others to reassure their own relevance, it's like part of this "human" or ape like philosophy, everyone thinks the lion is apex for killing a baby gazelle, but scoffs at a cute badger that will stand its own up to a lion... Often times idolizing bullies as heros without even recognizing it.. and in children these kids see the popular, strong kid, as the authority or the "hero" all to often, lol James Potter xD 

People mis portray, all the time, they admire the big dumb monkey that everyone likes bc  "he's the strongest", in children bullying helps them establish themselves, but nah most bullies are actually admired not hated, ppl are just blind.

The alienated victims is not always the case, but it's true that some bullies themselves deal with abuse for example at home. The problem is - bully's own personal struggles don't wash away trauma their victims experience. It's one thing, when bullying is limited to verbal violence, but when it reaches physical then, I am really sorry, there's just no excuse for what they do. I needed years to overcome my own traumas raised by them and these were years I could've spent better if I wasn't treated the way I was just, because I seemed weaker. I won't get those years back. 

It's important to note that this is purely emotional and applying logic is often useless in such cases. I know my stance on the matter is harsh, but sadly that's what was forced on me. One always sees their own struggles before witnessing what others went through. 

 

And like You said - villains, unlike bullies have actual goals. Sometimes even the goal is good and it's means to achieve it that are wrong (Thanos for example had valid concerns, only his solution was extremist to say the least). I can dislike villain, but respect him. Some villains show integrity in how they act, Darth Malgus from Star Wars refused to kill defenseless, disarmed jedi, only continuing the duel later on when said jedi was ready for combat. Some have charisma that You'll admire despite their otherwise evil deeds. Bullies? Well... bullies don't have any goals or integrity. They're cruel, at best venting their pains on others, effectively continuing on a circle of violence. 

As for James Potter, that's an interesting one to bring up. He was a bully towards Snape. Yet generally was portrayed as a good character despite that. Sort of a "typical teen that grew to be a hero". I have to admit that this one is worthy of separate debate, but one in PMs. 

[J.J 923]

45 minutes ago, Loves Mudalot said:

The alienated victims is not always the case, but it's true that some bullies themselves deal with abuse for example at home. The problem is - bully's own personal struggles don't wash away trauma their victims experience. It's one thing, when bullying is limited to verbal violence, but when it reaches physical then, I am really sorry, there's just no excuse for what they do. I needed years to overcome my own traumas raised by them and these were years I could've spent better if I wasn't treated the way I was just, because I seemed weaker. I won't get those years back. 

It's important to note that this is purely emotional and applying logic is often useless in such cases. I know my stance on the matter is harsh, but sadly that's what was forced on me. One always sees their own struggles before witnessing what others went through. 

 

And like You said - villains, unlike bullies have actual goals. Sometimes even the goal is good and it's means to achieve it that are wrong (Thanos for example had valid concerns, only his solution was extremist to say the least). I can dislike villain, but respect him. Some villains show integrity in how they act, Darth Malgus from Star Wars refused to kill defenseless, disarmed jedi, only continuing the duel later on when said jedi was ready for combat. Some have charisma that You'll admire despite their otherwise evil deeds. Bullies? Well... bullies don't have any goals or integrity. They're cruel, at best venting their pains on others, effectively continuing on a circle of violence. 

As for James Potter, that's an interesting one to bring up. He was a bully towards Snape. Yet generally was portrayed as a good character despite that. Sort of a "typical teen that grew to be a hero". I have to admit that this one is worthy of separate debate, but one in PMs. 

I would never look to justify bullying in any of way shape or form, there is just this psychological mind game that some bullies play and it's the most frustrating thing on the entire Earth, it may start as a few jokes, and a little bit of cruel humor but some times it reaches a point where you yourself "have to become the bully." You can say this is technically "never truthfully" the case, but if you don't step and take a stand "somewhere we foster this mentality that you can just forgive malicious, inhuman, cruel and offensive bullying that was entirely unwarranted and unprovoked. I know in it's own nature shows like "South Park" are often seem as "crossing verbal boundaries and being inherently offensive,. But my absolute favorite episode maybe of a show in general is probably "The Breast Cancer Show Ever". I could entirely spoil the plot, but it's been out for a decade or so o believe, but essentially, Cartman won't stop running his mouth about Breast Cancer victims, and it's entirely obnoxious and downright disgusting, but he's doing this specifically to get under Wendy's skin, who is genuinely a good reserved girl with neutral politics, a sense of self respect and a good heart... Well he gets so obsessed with attacking her and her resolve to spread awareness for Breast Cancer, that she is forced to say basically, "you know dude, I'll fight you." Well it turns into him trying to snake his way out of fighting Wendy the ENTIRE episode up until the very end when he is forced into doing it, bc essentially even the principal encourages Wendy to beat him up... She was ironically a cancer survivor herself, well up to the point before Wendy rocks Cartman and leaves the rest of the kids on the playground awestruck, Cartman words are, "fine Wendy, I'll fight you ya big bully." As now he has shifted himself into the victims position when the reality of consequence came knocking for him. Sometimes even though it seems like physical violence is much worse than words alone, it's justified, she gave him the duration of this entire episode essentially a chance to back out of a fight and apologize, but he wanted to manipulate his way into looking like an alpha male or looking like he was somehow above the consequences of the incredibly hurtful things he had said... She just has to educate him, which is a Segway into my next point/insight.... 

Yeah "not all" people are fighters, but sometimes when you grow up in a certain area, or if you are forced to regularly deal with physical confrontation, there are many forms of martial arts intended for the "victim" to learn that inherently help them gain the upper hand defensively against individuals that believe themselves just to be above you bc if inherent physical stature alone, sometimes it takes some meticulous training and time to really reach a point where you can be comfortable in these hostile environments, because you have developed a sense of confidence and discipline through training, and you can never let it be said that you were the one that looked to inherently push those abilities upon the unsuspecting, when in their nature they are almost purely defensive alone. I grew up with violence moderately, sometimes playful, sometimes unnecessary and hurtful... Words have always dug deeper to me than pain... Bc that is very personal and these sometimes pertain to insecurities that can't be "learned past" or inherently forgotten... 

Having thick skin unfortunately is just something I had to grow up learning how to do, it doesn't mean I shouldn't watch what I say and censor myself when necessary, but there are MANY well intentioned heros with a very bad mouth but a very great heart... This goes with paying attention to the consistency of someone's actions and what they stand for... Some individuals are playfully provocative, but they are good beings, Cartman was obsessively cruel, not just "provocative".... 

But yeah growing up "bully beat down" was one if my absolute favorites, just from what I've seen the admiration of bullies was always prevalent until their "dethroning", people always portray bullies as some weird big ugly goth kid, when they are usually a big athletic handsome jock.. or someone with notable popularity bc this popularity ensures their safety from consequences, but sometimes it's like the principal said to Wendy in that episode, eventually "enough is enough" and you have to be the one to introduce these consequences to those that believe they are above them...

[SharpWit 2,647]

Villains are designed to be entertaining and these days have relatable motivations. Suffering at their hand, hoof, or other appendage is more often a side effect of their actions or the result of attempting to thwart them. It's not personal like the targeting of a bully.