Do you think G5 has been shallow?

[phantompone1148 126]

For me, yes… Sort of.
 

G4 literally had almost anything you could ask for in a kid show. Character development, tons of world building, actually funny humor, etc. G5 on the other hand, not so much so far, there has been very little character development and barely any world building. 
 

I think the reason why G5 has been so shallow imo is because the writers, who were confirmed to be fans of G4 earlier this year, actually wanted to take risks and try new things with it but, the higher ups at Hasbro forced them to play it safe so the franchise can keep its TV-Y rating and to avoid outbursts from certain individuals (SJWs, Karens, overprotective parents). Another thing, I have heard that hasbro barely gives anybody who makes a show out of their IPs much creative control. This was confirmed to happen to the crew of friendship is magic during the last 2 seasons.

Edited December 12, 2022 by phantompone1148

[Sparklefan1234 170,716]

I like that the Yotube shorts are more relaxed while the Netflix show is where the "action" is. /

[User without a name 47]

I can't say, as I only watched the G5 movie and read the first 2 pages  issues of the comic. I think both were very good up until that point, as for Tell your Tale and Make your Mark, I've been holding off on watching them because my introduction to G5 was the movie and I'm afraid that the show will not be quite as good (and I know it won't be, writing a series is different from writing a movie)

I dunno, it could actually be better than I expect but that doesn't seem very likely

Edited December 8, 2022 by User without a name

[Misty Shadow 7,869]

We never have a shortage of G5 grievance threads, no sir. 

8 hours ago, phantompone1148 said:

Character development, tons of world building, actually funny humor, etc. G5 on the other hand, not so much so far, there has been very little character development and barely any world building.

Hmm. Maybe because it's only been out for so long. This point can never be repeated enough, no sir. As for "actually funny humor", comedy is incredibly subjective. I saw comments from fans of FiM who liked the show despite stating that it "never made them laugh once" and I've read plenty of comments from G5 fans who praise the humor of the series. To get on G5 for being "shallow" is to ignore the fact that the MLP franchise has never been renowned for subtlety. It's My Little Pony. It was never intended to be analyzed in-depth by us dorks. Yet you can very much analyze G5 in-depth the same way you can analyze G4 in-depth. Did you know that there's an in-depth analysis of the G5 theme song? 

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

It's not so much shallow as it is just different. It tackles different issues for the most part, and if it retouches ground that G4 already touched, then G5 tends to look at it from a different lens. Honestly; I can see why that would rub some G4 fans the wrong way, but I think it's a decent perspective on its own. ^^

[Megas 27,628]

My problems has nothing really to do with shallowness, with G5 it's that it for the most part has been "just okay" after a strong start with the movie. Nothing really interesting but nothing really offensive either, it's just playing it safe. Honestly if there's anything in G5 that's shallow, the world of G5 feels really small, with the the series taking place in only 3 towns(really just one with the other 2 being used very sporaticly, especially Bridlewood)

[AlbaTross 1,586]

Yes, very much so.  I think it has had some standout moments, sure, and a few jokes that have landed, but for the most part, it's just not that deep bruh.  I stick with it because I still think it has potential, but for me it definitely peaked with the pilot movie, at least as of now, and I think even that isn't as great as it's often made out to be.  G5 for me also just sucks out a lot of the imagination that FiM has, and definitely feels dumbed down in many respects.  Making a feeble attempt to try and link G5 to FiM also isn't doing it any favours IMHO.  There is a severe lack of character development too.  TBH, I think corporate decisions have prevented G5 from reaching too high, and that includes making a poor transition to the streaming era.  

I will say, I do not think G5 is completely meritless, but it rarely reaches beyond meh for me (though I do give credit where it is due on the odd occasion that it does happen).  I'll certainly keep watching in the hopes that things improve, but as of now, no one can accuse me of not giving it a fair chance, and I'd certainly recommend other shows on Netflix over this.  Wednesday is trending right now, and I'm really enjoying that so far.  Violet Evergarden is returning for an abridged series, which certainly sounds redundant but I'm most certainly going to watch the new series and will most likely enjoy that as much as I have the previous series and films.  Once upon a time MLP had the kind of imagination I like to see in a series, and I sincerely hope those days aren't long gone.  

As for the YouTube show, I suppose it's a passable way to spend five minutes a week, though it too is rarely anything special.  There is plenty of YouTube I look forward to more each week.  There was a time when I would get up early on Saturday mornings to watch livestreams of MLP episodes, and even if there was an equivalent for G5 (I guess waiting for an episode to drop on YouTube or any content to drop on Netflix?), I certainly wouldn't be doing that.  I suppose it's fine that G5 exists, and I do like that there is plenty of room in this fandom for both G4 and G5 fans, as well as fans of other gens (seriously, having disagreements of this nature has caused civil wars in other fandoms, or at least caused dissenters to be treated as though they committed the eighth deadly sin or have broken the eleventh commandment).  I can't even say I hate G5, so much as just lack much enthusiasm for it, and I do clearly still have residual enthusiasm for FiM that may be the driving force behind why I still have a lot to say regardless.  

[AlbaTross 1,586]

On 2022-12-08 at 11:58 AM, phantompone1148 said:

For me, yes… Sort of.
 

G4 literally had almost anything you could ask for in a kid show. Character development, tons of world building, actually funny humor, etc. G5 on the other hand, not so much so far, there has been very little character development and barely any world building. 
 

I think the reason why G5 has been so shallow imo is because the writers, who were confirmed to be fans of G4 earlier this year, I actually wanted to take risks and try new things with it but, the higher ups at Hasbro forced them to play it safe so the franchise can keep its TV-Y rating and to avoid outbursts from certain individuals (SJWs, Karens, overprotective parents). Another thing, I have heard that hasbro barely gives anybody who makes a show out of their IPs much creative control. This was confirmed to happen to the crew of friendship is magic during the last 2 seasons.

I definitely agree that the writers aren't necessarily to blame for why G5 feels underwhelming for the most part.  In fact, there are great writers on staff, including G.M. Berrow, whose FiM books I have mostly enjoyed, and even writers I'm less familiar with often seem to do their best with what they're given; they're just rarely given much to work with.  I'm hesitant to blame the issues on politics, but I do certainly think Hasbro is pushing an agenda, and is much more involved in the process this time around, not necessarily to the show's benefit.  I also think Hasbro wasn't certain how to make the transition from the standard TV format to the age of streaming, but felt strongly they had to do so anyways due to the shift in how people consume shows nowadays, which would explain some of the issues such as a lack of a proper pilot, and delays in the main series early on potentially having long-term ripple effects.  

[Octavian 5,421]

On 2022-12-08 at 3:58 PM, phantompone1148 said:

For me, yes… Sort of.

Me too  

Shallow sparkly pony goodness, but given the legacy it was working with... yup it's a bit shallow. There's a few reasons for this I think, but mainly it feels like there's no real problems in their world - everything is reduced to cuddliness just like G3. Even the villain is a big softy and has been allowed to do practically no really evil things. This is an issue even with the movie (which I really liked due to the high production quality and story telling) FiM started with the mentor character being captured and the world being threatened, whereas the mentor figure is conveniently passed for Sunny and the evil of the world being a tradition that has existed happily for decades. The initial villain in MyM's terrible was literally pony angst and a copy of the movie and now the revealed villain in MyM is still unclear, but I hope will at some point declare her hoof and threaten Hitch (Sunny's mane old friend and connection with her father in the show) and the new world Sunny has brought in. 

[phantompone1148 126]

On 2022-12-10 at 4:01 AM, AlbaTross said:

I'm hesitant to blame the issues on politics

I don’t get what politics have to do with cartoons

[AlbaTross 1,586]

On 2022-12-12 at 12:28 PM, phantompone1148 said:

I don’t get what politics have to do with cartoons

Hence why I chose not to entertain the political notions brought forth by the OP.  

[Steve Piranha 29,424]

Didn’t feel it shallow because I’ve never expected it to be on par, let alone better than FIM . Still, I do hope they get to expand with world building as time goes on. Equestria feels too small having only three known towns. They should consider introducing other pony species as well 

Spoiler

LIKE. MY. GODDAMN. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAATS 

 

[Winter Storm 240]

My biggest issue is that there has been no sense of adventure beyond what was in the movie. Nothing like what G4 had. So many mistakes with G5 if you ask me though some of the ponies have nice personalities.

[HereComesTom 2,267]

My experience of the youtube shorts and the MYM episodes, at least so far, is that the humor* and dialog and writing is more or less on par with that of an average G-4 season.

That being said, I do feel like G-5 is missing something that G-4 has.  Probably more than one thing, now that I think about it.  Worldbuilding has been mentioned in this thread, and I agree with that, but what came to my mind about what G-5 was missing was the kind of far-reaching, high-stakes adventures and threats that Twilight and company had to deal with:  the series premiere for G-4 showed them duking it out with a threat that could end all life on their world, for example, and there are no such high-stakes threats in G-5.

Probably the lack of worldbuilding is closely tied to that lack of high-stakes threats.

EDIT: I spelled "humor" as "human" for some weird reason :/

Edited December 25, 2022 by HereComesTom

[Steve Piranha 29,424]

10 hours ago, HereComesTom said:

My experience of the youtube shorts and the MYM episodes, at least so far, is that the human and dialog and writing is more or less on par with that of an average G-4 season.

That being said, I do feel like G-5 is missing something that G-4 has.  Probably more than one thing, now that I think about it.  Worldbuilding has been mentioned in this thread, and I agree with that, but what came to my mind about what G-5 was missing was the kind of far-reaching, high-stakes adventures and threats that Twilight and company had to deal with:  the series premiere for G-4 showed them duking it out with a threat that could end all life on their world, for example, and there are no such high-stakes threats in G-5.

Probably the lack of worldbuilding is closely tied to that lack of high-stakes threats.

 

well, Opaline”s presence may fix that some day, once she has been taken cared off 

[HereComesTom 2,267]

Opaline might, yes---if she's half as powerful as Celestia or Luna, she could be a world-ending threat, and given what we've seen her talking about in MYM, it's what she wants to become.

But she's not a threat like that yet, unfortunately.  At this point, the mane five don't even know she exists, and she's apparently not very powerful at all; she probably can't even leave her castle, since she never accompanies Misty anywhere in person.  I'm surprised they haven't explained why she can't leave the castle; that might add some worldbuilding if, for example, Twilight imprisoned her there with a magical storm that dumps fire-alicorn-extinguishing rainwater onto her if she attempts to leave.  Though why Twilight would use a means of imprisoning somepony that could be thwarted with an umbrella is beyond me...

 

Problem is, Opaline doesn't feel like a world-ending threat; she feels like a goofy, hammy kid's cartoon show villain.  Of course, so did Discord and Nightmare Moon, but you could feel their threat; you can't really feel Opaline's threat.

 

It's kind of ironic that I'm criticizing her, though:  one of the things I'd wished G-4 did was have a villain that lasted a whole season and whose plots and machinations drive either the A-plot or the B-plot of most episodes.  Preferably, this villain would have a Laughable Lackey with which they could have humorous back-and-forth.  And now in G-5, Opaline/Misty is providing exactly the kind of villain dynamic I'd wanted, and when you take both MYM and TYT episodes' runtime into account, either Opaline or Misty is probably responsible for about half the plotlines in G-5. 

And it feels like they could be better done, and that the lack of a big villain threat is what's holding G-5 back from achieving G-4's greatness...

[Rock-O-Jello 218]

On 2022-12-21 at 12:38 AM, Winter Storm said:

So many mistakes with G5 if you ask me though some of the ponies have nice personalities.

I disagree with this. Izzy is really the only character I can think of who has an actual personality (Zipp is right on the border of having one IMO). Compare that to G4: Twilight is an enthusiastic nerd with a big heart, Pinkie Pie is a hyperactive clown with emotional issues, Rainbow Dash is a tomboy who hides her softness behind a tough exterior, etc. And that's really my biggest problem with G5. It lacks the passionate, cleverly written punch that made Friendship is Magic so much fun. I get that the whole point of My Little Pony is that it's a cheesy toy franchise for little girls who like horses, but still, just because it's for kids doesn't mean it has to be low-effort.

[Guest]

Mmmm initially G5 seems shallow, but it's slowing growing on me with everything we've gotten so far at this point.

I do have a few issues:

First, I blame Hasbro for how everything got presented to us. They should've kept it as a weekly show with full episodes like they did for G4, but they got greedy. Hasbro wanted to obtain more money and spread their media all over the place. As someone who recently started taking business courses, I learned that this is an effective marketing technique as they know their hardcore audience would follow them on different platforms to watch the show. They can get more money from an audience who's willing to follow them regardless of where they go. Thank goodness that some of the fans can "sail the seas" in order to keep up on what they can't watch on Netflix.

Second, my other gripe is that there's still no long term storytelling. Well, there's some story, but with all the episodic plots from the TYT shorts and MYM specials, it's very ambiguous on where they want to go. I don't mind it as I like some of the G5 TYT shorts and MYM specials, but after a while- it does gets a bit stale. I do like how some of their recent episodes started to focus on other characters like Posey, Jazz, etc.

Third, I'm still mixed with how this series connects with G4 as they have random references and they haven't done anything big recently to connect all of this. Without spoiling anything, the first two issues of the G5 comics do go into some of the events before the 1st G5 film(they briefly mention what happened to the mane 6 and what led to the current state of Equestria), but there has only been FIVE issues so far(they started back in May 2022). So far its too early to tell where the comics will go or if they will veer back to the episodic formula.

Hasbro's implementation of the series hasn't been great, but I have some hope as I recently saw on the news that some of Hasbro's year to year financials  weren't doing so well in general. They are planning to eliminate 15% of their workforce soon and implement other changes across the board.

Idk if this is allowed here, but here is the brief summary for the 2022 Hasbro financials in case anyone is interested:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by StarlightNyars
clarity

[Lux Klonoa 18]

On 12/8/2022 at 11:58 AM, phantompone1148 said:

Another thing, I have heard that hasbro barely gives anybody who makes a show out of their IPs much creative control. This was confirmed to happen to the crew of friendship is magic during the last 2 seasons.

I've been out of the loop since 2016 and I've only just got back to the fandom. Do you have a source for this? I just want to know.

[CocoCody 513]

That is well thought out, your business savvy is interesting to read @StarlightNyars I agree and share the same sentiments about there being no long term storytelling. I take issue with the short burst episodes of Tell Your Tale. It is designed to capture the attention of a specific market that wants very quick, snappy, short bursts of entertainment, which can be fun, i do enjoy some of the TYT shorts but over time i don't see that creating a clear or meaningful direction for the series other then it being a collection of moments that give people bursts of dopamine.

 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, CocoCody said:

That is well thought out, your business savvy is interesting to read @StarlightNyars I agree and share the same sentiments about there being no long term storytelling. I take issue with the short burst episodes of Tell Your Tale. It is designed to capture the attention of a specific market that wants very quick, snappy, short bursts of entertainment, which can be fun, i do enjoy some of the TYT shorts but over time i don't see that creating a clear or meaningful direction for the series other then it being a collection of moments that give people bursts of dopamine.

 

Yeah, I think it’s just a short promotion series to sell toys/merch for kids. The first movie was the #1 movie for kids on Netflix and did over 17 million+ views on tik tok alone. They even state that their target audience is primarily girls 4-6, so the way they present across social media is already planned in a certain way to garner views and money. There should be more stats around, but they did way better than they imagined. 

 I recently found out online that initially- TYT was planned to have about 70 eps, but then Hasbro saw the boost in popularity and they ordered more episodes. 

Here’s a quick link and quote for the initial 70 eps: https://kidscreen.com/2022/02/18/hasbro-saddles-up-new-my-little-pony-content/

“Malaysian animation studio Lil Critter Workshop produced the 70 episodes, with Gretchen Mallorie working on scripts as head writer and story editor, and David Flack serving as creative producer” 

Oh and then one of the official licensing pages posted some pics/one had “social media stats”(which I mentioned earlier) which I’ll link and post here: 

https://relkon.eu/licenses/my-little-pony/

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by StarlightNyars
Clarity

[Misty Shadow 7,869]

14 minutes ago, StarlightNyars said:

Yeah, I think it’s just a short promotion series to sell toys/merch for kids. The first movie was the #1 movie for kids on Netflix and did over 17 million+ views on tik tok alone. They even state that their target audience is primarily girls 4-6, so the way they present across social media is already planned in a certain way to garner views and money. There should be more stats around, but they did way better than they imagined. 

 I recently found out online that initially- TYT was planned to have about 70 eps, but then Hasbro saw the boost in popularity and they ordered more episodes. 

Here’s a quick link and for the initial 70 eps: https://kidscreen.com/2022/02/18/hasbro-saddles-up-new-my-little-pony-content/

“Malaysian animation studio Lil Critter Workshop produced the 70 episodes, with Gretchen Mallorie working on scripts as head writer and story editor, and David Flack serving as creative producer” 

Oh and then one of the official licensing pages posted some pics and social media stats(which I mentioned earlier) which I’ll link and post here: 

https://relkon.eu/licenses/my-little-pony/

 

Well, you learn something new every day. The series having a large following on TikTok doesn't surprise me, considering that one of the early episodes of Tell Your Tale was essentially a love letter to TikToker MLP fans. The big surprise to me is seeing the possibility that TYT was actually more popular than Hasbro expected and got more episodes ordered because of an unexpectedly high demand for it. If you see its stats on Youtube, you can see the way its viewership fluctuates is erratic. Some new episodes can get as low as well below 100K views, but others can get as high as millions of views. The way they shoot to get a return on investment on TYT is a mystery, but I have a good feeling now it has less to do with Youtube viewership than I initially thought. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

Well, you learn something new every day. The series having a large following on TikTok doesn't surprise me, considering that one of the early episodes of Tell Your Tale was essentially a love letter to TikToker MLP fans. The big surprise to me is seeing the possibility that TYT was actually more popular than Hasbro expected and got more episodes ordered because of an unexpectedly high demand for it. If you see its stats on Youtube, you can see the way its viewership fluctuates is erratic. Some new episodes can get as low as well below 100K views, but others can get as high as millions of views. The way they shoot to get a return on investment on TYT is a mystery, but I have a good feeling now it has less to do with Youtube viewership than I initially thought. 

I think it’s probably a disconnect with Hasbro and the fans. They underestimated how the fans were looking forward to a new generation. At that point, G4 was done and there really wasn’t much for MLP fans to watch other than MLP: Pony Life which was..alright at best. It was pretty much TYT but with G4’s cast zaniness cranked up a bit.  Imho they should’ve finished the EG series before anything, but that’s a personal rant for another day lol

Anyway, the first G5 movie had a lot of hype behind it and high quality production(art, animation, and famous actors to voice the main characters- a lot went into this movie). The movie broke a lot of records and brought Hasbro record profits that they haven’t seen in a while for their toy lines when they needed it. Sure they got WOTC, but that’s a different target audience with MTG. 
 

However, their release schedule for 2022 wasn’t really great so they lost some money and I believe in one of the early links I posted from their website, they even noted that they didn’t do great around mid to late 2022  because they didn’t really have a follow up to the  MLP movie from the previous year’s financial quarter other than the shorts and specials. 

***Note: many companies do quarterly business reviews to reflect on a previous years fiscal quarter to predict future volume and sales numbers. It’s an efficient way to determine where things are likely headed financially for a company. 
 

It was also cheaper to order the production of more TYT episodes as they outsourced the animation production to Malaysia like some other studios do to spend less money. From there, they’ll post it up online and get a lot of views for the TYT eps across all their social media. They will make their money back without doing much work. I saw on the local news mention that Hasbro was planning layoffs(just like how they announced), but they were also looking to expand their toy line and they were particularly showing MLP G5 toys. Though they didn’t state anything further or new. 

[Misty Shadow 7,869]

2 hours ago, StarlightNyars said:

I think it’s probably a disconnect with Hasbro and the fans. They underestimated how the fans were looking forward to a new generation. At that point, G4 was done and there really wasn’t much for MLP fans to watch other than MLP: Pony Life which was..alright at best. It was pretty much TYT but with G4’s cast zaniness cranked up a bit.  Imho they should’ve finished the EG series before anything, but that’s a personal rant for another day lol

Anyway, the first G5 movie had a lot of hype behind it and high quality production(art, animation, and famous actors to voice the main characters- a lot went into this movie). The movie broke a lot of records and brought Hasbro record profits that they haven’t seen in a while for their toy lines when they needed it. Sure they got WOTC, but that’s a different target audience with MTG. 
 

However, their release schedule for 2022 wasn’t really great so they lost some money and I believe in one of the early links I posted from their website, they even noted that they didn’t do great around mid to late 2022  because they didn’t really have a follow up to the  MLP movie from the previous year’s financial quarter other than the shorts and specials. 

***Note: many companies do quarterly business reviews to reflect on a previous years fiscal quarter to predict future volume and sales numbers. It’s an efficient way to determine where things are likely headed financially for a company. 
 

It was also cheaper to order the production of more TYT episodes as they outsourced the animation production to Malaysia like some other studios do to spend less money. From there, they’ll post it up online and get a lot of views for the TYT eps across all their social media. They will make their money back without doing much work. I saw on the local news mention that Hasbro was planning layoffs(just like how they announced), but they were also looking to expand their toy line and they were particularly showing MLP G5 toys. Though they didn’t state anything further or new. 

I had a similar thought on why they ordered more TYT despite the bizarrely fluctuating viewership. MLP's already a commercial show, and every TYT episode is like a mini-commercial for the G5 brand. With the episodes being so cheap to produce, it doesn't really matter whether or not the views are super consistent so long as it's keeping people engaged with G5. As for Hasbro's finances not being too good, they rightly blamed inflation for that. It wasn't MLP's fault, the toy line expansion for G5 would be consistent with what I saw reported on how MLP actually did well last year. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2022/11/23/hasbro-stock-revenue-and-profit-trends-at-the-toy-making-giant/?sh=1d85dc0b3966

"It's also seeing ongoing growth in its Peppa Pig and My Little Pony properties."

[Splashee 28,564]

8 hours ago, StarlightNyars said:

They even state that their target audience is primarily girls 4-6

Slightly younger than I would have predicted. Oh well, it is as far away from me being the target audience then.