The big problem with Gen 5 as a sequel to Gen 4

[MovieLord101 140]

I'm sure I'm not the first to bring this up about Gen 5, but after a season's worth of episodes, a movie, and the IDW comics, I think the big problem with this new version of MLP is two-fold.

 

First, the Make Your Mark show feels like a regression all the way back to the 80s in the worst way: a slice-of-life show (which Gen 4 handled better) with a vague, scheming villain and her bumbling henchman. This might as well be the smegging Smurfs. I get the feeling the people in charge clearly loved shows like that ilk and wanted a "back to basics", which doesn't work in this day and age without certain things like proper characters and character development and a decently-detailed plot.

 

The second is how it treats FIM's legacy. Between this, the pilot movie, and the IDW comics, they make it sound like everything Twilight and company did was all for nothing because "thinly veiled, poorly-written racism allegory". Especially the IDW comic revelations. Ripping away magic from this world by force to punish everypony feels less like an informed decision and more like Twilight having another panic attack and acting brash. We don't even have clarification yet as to if Opaline was the one who caused all that to begin with (correct me if I'm wrong please). And that still doesn't explain what became of non-pony races like the dragons, griffons, hippogriffs, and yacks; did they die out or something? I never want to hear complaints about stuff like the Star Wars sequel trilogy again after this. Either way, the clip below is a perfect retort to Twilight and company for this boneheaded, damaging decision:

 

Honestly, if this was how Gen 5 was gonna turn out, maybe they should've made it a reboot after all. It would have been far more honest and less insulting.

Edited November 27, 2023 by MovieLord101

[Props Valroa 26,048]

It would have been a lot easier and a lot better for it to be on it's own. G4 was good on it's own, there is no need to make the universe even more convoluted. When I saw Twilight Sparkle in G5, I honestly cringed. The writing in G5 has been...passable. I even like some of the characters better than their G4 counterparts but where it really falls short for me is how it is connected to G4. So they just invalidate everything G4 was, with characters we have never ever seen and heard of before, to explain some cliche racial division? That's my problem. The characters themselves are largely fine to me, it's just the writing and set up of the world that irks me. 

[MovieLord101 140]

2 minutes ago, Props Valroa said:

It would have been a lot easier and a lot better for it to be on it's own. G4 was good on it's own, there is no need to make the universe even more convoluted. When I saw Twilight Sparkle in G5, I honestly cringed. The writing in G5 has been...passable. I even like some of the characters better than their G4 counterparts but where it really falls short for me is how it is connected to G4. So they just invalidate everything G4 was, with characters we have never ever seen and heard of before, to explain some cliche racial division? That's my problem. The characters themselves are largely fine to me, it's just the writing and set up of the world that irks me. 

I agree. All but saying everything the Mane 6 did was all for nothing is BS. Did people whine about the leaked reboot designs and changes that much that they scrapped it?

[Props Valroa 26,048]

3 minutes ago, MovieLord101 said:

I agree. All but saying everything the Mane 6 did was all for nothing is BS. Did people whine about the leaked reboot designs and changes that much that they scrapped it?

G5 being a reboot of G4 would have been even worse. We had nearly a decade of the same characters. Why can't we just have something completely new, a fresh slate? That is what I thought G5 would have been, and I am disappointed. 

[MovieLord101 140]

On 2023-06-10 at 2:50 PM, Props Valroa said:

G5 being a reboot of G4 would have been even worse. We had nearly a decade of the same characters. Why can't we just have something completely new, a fresh slate? That is what I thought G5 would have been, and I am disappointed. 

It's Hasbro trying to have it's cake and eat it.

 

Also, we don't even know if Opaline was the one who caused the racism thing. The IDW comics seem to impy so, but we're not sure. Even so, she just seems generic and underexplained.

Edited November 27, 2023 by MovieLord101

[Props Valroa 26,048]

15 minutes ago, MovieLord101 said:

It's Hasbro trying to have it's cake and eat it.

 

Also, we don't even know if Opaline was the one who caused the racism thing. The IDW comics seem to impy so, but we're no sure. Even so, she just seems generic and underexplained.

The racism thing I find to be an extremely poor way to connect G5 to G4. It would be perfectly fine if it was set in it's own universe without G4.

[MovieLord101 140]

Moments ago, Props Valroa said:

The racism thing I find to be an extremely poor way to connect G5 to G4. It would be perfectly fine if it was set in it's own universe without G4.

And trying way too hard to relate to modern politics.

[Props Valroa 26,048]

5 minutes ago, MovieLord101 said:

And trying way too hard to relate to modern politics.

They did that far too much in the later seasons of G4 and it really killed the vibe for me.

[MovieLord101 140]

Moments ago, Props Valroa said:

They did that far too much in the later seasons of G4 and it really killed the vibe for me.

Not like this with the whole "racism" crap.

[Megas 27,068]

They definitely should have just let G5 be it's own thing and not tie it to G4. The way they went about it both messes with G4 by making a lot of the Mane 6's accomplishments be for nothing while also not letting G5 stand on its own and forever live in G4's shadow.

2 hours ago, Props Valroa said:

G5 being a reboot of G4 would have been even worse. We had nearly a decade of the same characters. Why can't we just have something completely new, a fresh slate? That is what I thought G5 would have been, and I am disappointed. 

They'd only be the same characters in name only and writers would have to make a conscious effort to make it so. In the leaks, G5 Twilight was an earth pony who liked making flying machines, FS and Pinkie also had race swaps and AJ would have been an entirely different character, being more urban.

Really though, the decision to change the cast completely and link the two gens wasn't some creative decision to keep things fresh and original, it was because everything got leaked and needed to immediately change course

Edited June 10, 2023 by Megas

[Misty Shadow 7,085]

13 hours ago, MovieLord101 said:

First, the Mark Your Mark show feels like a regression all the way back to the 80s in the worst way: a slice-of-life show (which Gen 4 handled better) with a vague, scheming villain and her bumbling henchman. This might as well be the smegging Smurfs. I get the feeling the people in charge clearly loved shows like that ilk and wanted a "back to basics", which doesn't work in this day and age without certain things like proper characters and character development and a decently-detailed plot.

The "bumbling henchman" has been given incredible character development, the best we've seen for a reformed villain from the franchise yet. 

13 hours ago, MovieLord101 said:

The second is how it treats FIM's legacy. Between this, the pilot movie, and the IDW comics, they make it sound like everything Twilight and company did was all for nothing because "thinly veiled, poorly-written racism allegory". Especially the IDW comic revelations. Ripping away magic from this world by force to punish everypony feels less like an informed decision and more like Twilight having another panic attack and acting brash. We don't even have clarification yet as to if Opaline was the one who caused all that to begin with (correct me if I'm wrong please).

Well, you said the "p" word, so I'll correct you. Yes, we do have clarification that Opaline is responsible and Twilight "acting brashly" has been thoroughly debunked. Long story short, Opaline really was that powerful and pushed Twilight to the point where she had absolutely no choice, doing it to save her subjects from Opaline. 

13 hours ago, MovieLord101 said:

I never want to hear complaints about stuff like the Star Wars sequel trilogy again after this.

You're kidding me. Contemplating killing your nephew in his sleep after you saved your mass-murdering father from the dark side. Compared to saving your subjects from a tyrannical alicorn in a way that still allowed them to have their magic before they chose to divide. There's no way the latter is worse. 

7 hours ago, Megas said:

Really though, the decision to change the cast completely and link the two gens wasn't some creative decision to keep things fresh and original, it was because everything got leaked and needed to immediately change course

We get MLP leaks all the time though. Is there any proof this was the only reason if it was a reason at all? Regardless, they came up with plenty of creative ideas for G5 that were scrapped. I can totally buy that the decision to change course was motivated by non-creative reasons, even if I doubt that one non-creative reason was the only reason, but another could simply be that G4 continued experiencing a greater downward trend than initially expected. 

[Steve Piranha 28,782]

8 hours ago, CloudMistDragon said:

The "bumbling henchman" has been given incredible character development, the best we've seen for a reformed villain from the franchise yet. 

Well, you said the "p" word, so I'll correct you. Yes, we do have clarification that Opaline is responsible and Twilight "acting brashly" has been thoroughly debunked. Long story short, Opaline really was that powerful and pushed Twilight to the point where she had absolutely no choice, doing it to save her subjects from Opaline. 

You're kidding me. Contemplating killing your nephew in his sleep after you saved your mass-murdering father from the dark side. Compared to saving your subjects from a tyrannical alicorn in a way that still allowed them to have their magic before they chose to divide. There's no way the latter is worse. 

 

And while there are still unknown factors regarding Opaline’s threat levels, the fact that instead of she being originally an unicorn as IDW did, but instead an alicorn ABOUT AS OLD AS CELLIE AND LUNA actually gives merit not only to her, but for Twilight as well

[Megas 27,068]

7 hours ago, CloudMistDragon said:

We get MLP leaks all the time though. Is there any proof this was the only reason if it was a reason at all? Regardless, they came up with plenty of creative ideas for G5 that were scrapped. I can totally buy that the decision to change course was motivated by non-creative reasons, even if I doubt that one non-creative reason was the only reason, but another could simply be that G4 continued experiencing a greater downward trend than initially expected. 

The magnitude of this particular leak makes it much different. We’re talking about over a decade’s worth of stolen work. Admittedly there’s no real confirmation so it’s purely speculation on my end, but Given Hasbro cut ties with DHX, with the latter rebranding into Wild Brain shortly after, along with the fact G5 was delayed and debuted later than anticipated(though how much of that was also because of the pandemic remains unclear), I don’t think it’s crazy to put two and two together. 
 

Also, that last part, if G4 was experiencing such a downward spiral, then why tie them together?

[Steve Piranha 28,782]

2 hours ago, Megas said:

 

Also, that last part, if G4 was experiencing such a downward spiral, then why tie them together?

All things considered, G4 has been, and probably will remain for a long time, the most popular and successful generation of the franchise. Hence why Hasbro will never set it aside despite of the messes and later natural loss of interest. The fact their characters are the most developed and beloved helps

[Landi 597]

I agree that this connection to G4 has been one of the core problems with G5. Recently Chapter 4 of MYM has released, and I've actually enjoyed it for the most part. However, every time it brought up that connection to G4, it frustrates me a bit. There is a plethora of inconsistencies between the worldbuilding of the generations, and the writers of G5 don't seem bothered to answer any of these questions. That's not even mentioning the near tyrannical way twilight has been portrayed, and how quickly the Mane Six's work was uprooted. If G5 was just its own separate thing from G4, we wouldn't have to worry about this. Plus, it's clear that the writers want to make their own world without having to take the previous generation's worldbuilding into account. While it wouldn't solve all of its problems, having G5 be its own thing would've solved a lot of things. 

[HedonismBot 218]

On 2023-06-10 at 10:32 AM, MovieLord101 said:

The second is how it treats FIM's legacy. Between this, the pilot movie, and the IDW comics, they make it sound like everything Twilight and company did was all for nothing because "thinly veiled, poorly-written racism allegory". Especially the IDW comic revelations. Ripping away magic from this world by force to punish everypony feels less like an informed decision and more like Twilight having another panic attack and acting brash. We don't even have clarification yet as to if Opaline was the one who caused all that to begin with (correct me if I'm wrong please).

 

What's worse, Discord's flashback never mentions Twilight or her friends doing anything to counter Opaline before things snowball into an Equestria-wide race war.

And in the show, Sunny's explanation for how the pony tribes split up implies that Opaline might not have been responsible, but it's too vague to draw any conclusions.

 

8 hours ago, Landi said:

I agree that this connection to G4 has been one of the core problems with G5. Recently Chapter 4 of MYM has released, and I've actually enjoyed it for the most part. However, every time it brought up that connection to G4, it frustrates me a bit. There is a plethora of inconsistencies between the worldbuilding of the generations, and the writers of G5 don't seem bothered to answer any of these questions.

Really, every reference to G4-era history poses more questions than it answers. Plus everything has come from an unreliable source: either blatant self-serving propaganda from Opaline or bedtime stories from Sunny.

And everything about how G4-era history has been presented gives off the strong impression that:

a. G5 was originally intended to be its own universe, and the connection to G4 was tacked on at the last minute as a marketing gimmick.

b, The writers are being deliberately vague about how pony race relations went to Tartarus in a handbasket because they know that there's pretty much no explanation for it that wouldn't make Twilight look like a colossal screwup.

[MovieLord101 140]

The whole racism angle feels like the MLP equivalent of Star Trek's "Turnabout Intruder" in that we're dealing with a topic that shouldn't even be a THING in Equestria given the set rules and lore. That's the problem.

 

And what became of all the dragons and non-pony races from Gen 4?

[HedonismBot 218]

30 minutes ago, MovieLord101 said:

The whole racism angle feels like the MLP equivalent of Star Trek's "Turnabout Intruder" in that we're dealing with a topic that shouldn't even be a THING in Equestria given the set rules and lore. That's the problem.

 

Exactly - the early press releases advertised themes of "diversity and inclusion", but G4 already had that in spades. I've been thinking that the movie should have involved Sunny and her friends working to prevent whatever it is led to the pony tribes splitting up. Hasbro would still get to boast of "diversity and inclusion", and fans wouldn;t have to contend with everything Twilight fought for going right down the toilet.

 

31 minutes ago, MovieLord101 said:

And what became of all the dragons and non-pony races from Gen 4?

 

The end of Chapter 4 hinted that we'll see what's going on with the dragons. To date, none of the other species have even been mentioned.

Which is another big problem with the connection to G4 - if G5 is about introducing a new generation to My Little Pony, then it would make sense to start out focusing on the ponies and gradually reintroduce the other species. Except that the writers have been putting it off for quite a while - they can't not be expecting G4 fans to be wondering where all the griffons and changelings and yaks and such went.

[Misty Shadow 7,085]

14 hours ago, Megas said:

Also, that last part, if G4 was experiencing such a downward spiral, then why tie them together?

Because soft sequels are not the same as reboots. Even if something is from a recognizable franchise that's far less popular than it used to be, new media attached to it gets tons of free publicity just by being connected to it. If the G4 toys were continuing to pull in less and less revenue than initially expected, wouldn't your confidence of releasing a new set of them with minor differences dwindle in fear of it being called stale? Wouldn't it make more sense to make a completely new set while using something already established as a commercial for it? This isn't just my speculation either, it's documented on Hasbro's finances that MLP's revenue decreased in 2019, a time when everyone was talking about FiM because of that being the year of the show's last season. Meanwhile, in late 2021 and throughout all of 2022, revenue for MLP grew following the premiere of G5, with MLP becoming a top brand performer.

https://hasbro.gcs-web.com/news-releases/news-release-details/hasbro-reports-revenue-and-operating-profit-growth-full-year-and

https://hasbro.gcs-web.com/news-releases/news-release-details/hasbro-reports-growth-revenues-operating-profit-net-earnings-and

I think it's more likely this was a calculated business decision. 

[Kantet 166]

It is rather unsuccessful: there are too many plot holes, the animation is mediocre (3D could have been done many times better), .

Here, many have written that the problem is in trying to connect G4 and G5, but I do not agree with this.
The ending of G4 could have been a great start for G5, there was so much room for the plot (show Twilight's reign), new characters could be added, while maintaining the old ones and cleverly connecting the narrative story.
But instead... eh(

But I still think that G5 has a chance. I hope that G5 in future releases will try to connect the generations competently, personally I want the return of Celestia, Luna and Twilight, maybe through some kind of escape from captivity, or something .. I love them so much as heroes.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Kantet

[MovieLord101 140]

I know this topic has been dormant for a while but I wanted to bring it back due to the recent episodes just to check in.

 

Has anything been revealed more about Opaline and how she ties back to the FIM-era? And if she really IS from Celestia and Luna's era, how the in the name of Discord did they not know about her. She probably would've made for a much better villain for the 2017 movie than the Storm King did. Would've been more appropriate honestly. Otherwise, I'm surprised they didn't just make it Luster Dawn or whomever Twilight's student from The Final Problem was.

 

Any other deets about other connecting issues would be nice too. I'm just trying to help keep this alive as a "keeping tabs on continuity" thread since I really haven't bothered watching since my last post.

[Kantet 166]

On 11/27/2023 at 3:39 AM, MovieLord101 said:

I know this topic has been dormant for a while but I wanted to bring it back due to the recent episodes just to check in.

 

Has anything been revealed more about Opaline and how she ties back to the FIM-era? And if she really IS from Celestia and Luna's era, how the in the name of Discord did they not know about her. She probably would've made for a much better villain for the 2017 movie than the Storm King did. Would've been more appropriate honestly. Otherwise, I'm surprised they didn't just make it Luster Dawn or whomever Twilight's student from The Final Problem was.

 

Any other deets about other connecting issues would be nice too. I'm just trying to help keep this alive as a "keeping tabs on continuity" thread since I really haven't bothered watching since my last post.

1) No, nothing more was revealed in these episodes. No new information about what happened, well, except that “there is a country of alicorns” and “The Crystal Empire is sealed somewhere.” That's all.
2) Of course, they didn’t know about her, because this Opalin was invented in G5, and of course there are no explanations, and her arc was generally completed very stupidly, simply sealed in a tree.
3) No, she wouldn't be the best villain. This is the worst villain who can't do anything in his entire time in the series. I don't feel like she's a villain or the one who supposedly defeated Twilight. This is just nonsense.