[SPOILERS] Did "Magic Duel" violate its own moral?

[sirseansy 87]

Before I go to the actual discussion thread I figured it was necessary to make a thread where we could discuss the obligatory topic that is going to come up with "Magic Duel" and make people think that the writers invalidated the moral of the episode.

 

In other words: the-Mane-Six-are-a-bunch-of-hypocrites-and-they-cheated-just-as-much-as-Trixie-did-and-that's-not-fair argument. Basically the same thing that came up in Mare-Do-Well. 

 

Hopefully you can guess my opinion of this, and will leave it up to you guys to decide.

Edited December 2, 2012 by sirseansy

[Leafeon 2,701]

Yep. Plus Twilight ruined Trixie's career, making Trixie go to such lengths for revenge. Then Trixie apologizes for being mean while having the amulet on, yet Twilight wrecked her career, literally what she was born for, just because her gimmick was boasting.

 

That being said, unless Twilight acknowledges what she did to Trixie, all her arguments aren't valid.

 

Also, Celestia is still waiting for a letter.

[Dreadmallon 353]

I do feel bad for Trixie for the reasons Firebolt stated, what with her finally getting revenge against the mare who exposed her lies (<- Editted to appease the Trixie haters responding to this post) ruined her career, and then being forced to apologize by writers. I do however believe she should've gotten her revenge in a less Jafar-like way. But the amulet corrupted her, so I guess it's okay...?

Edited December 3, 2012 by Prince Dusk

[Evilshy 5,089]

Eh, I don't think there's a problem in using clever trickery to get a total dickwad to stop abusing their power.

 

I can say though, I don't like that Trixie apologized at the end. Not because I think she deserved revenge or anything, but simply because I hate it when bad characters turn good. It happens way too often in fiction, and I like evil characters.

[Obsidian_Winter 1,159]

Yep. Plus Twilight ruined Trixie's career, making Trixie go to such lengths for revenge. Then Trixie apologizes for being mean while having the amulet on, yet Twilight wrecked her career, literally what she was born for, just because her gimmick was boasting.

 

That being said, unless Twilight acknowledges what she did to Trixie, all her arguments aren't valid.

 

Also, Celestia is still waiting for a letter.

I don't understand the argument at all that Twilight Ruined Trixies Career. She ruined her own Career. Twilight didn't want to fight her. Twilight refused to show her up the first time around. The only thing Twilight did was beat the Ursa Minor which Trixie could not do. Period. If not for Trixie being an arrogant, spiteful, hateful bitch to begin with, none of this would have happened to her. She then decided on revenge as the course of action since she KNEW she couldn't beat Twilight fair. If you want to go head for head, Trixie is just a Trixster. Thats her talent. Tricks. Twilight is is far more advanced.

 

As for the 'cheating' aspect, I don't see it. Celestia herself may have had trouble beating that necklace. THe mane six tricked her by playing into what she wanted most...more power. Even before the necklace corrupted her, she treated ponies poorly. I personally feel she got what she deserved. I have ZERO sympathy for her. I think it was kind of Twilight to not make the same deal with Trixie that Trixie made with her....Winner becomes exiled. There was no compitition...not really. They just wanted to get that amulet off her neck.

 

Just my thoughts. Rage on

[duidamasterXD 9,626]

Well they were merely trying to get the amulet off of Trixie, not outperform her. I don't see anything terribly wrong with getting the corrupt evil artifact away from someone. Even Trixie herself would side with the mane 6 on this.

I viewed the moral as more against letting grudges control you. Trixie got wrapped up with her vendetta against Twilight and ended up inadvertently hurting a lot of people, but Twilight didn't hold a grudge and forgave her.

 

Also, Twilight did nothing to Trixie. All that Twilight did in Boast Busters was defend her town from a rampaging monster. She did not set out to humiliate Trixie or make her look bad ( even when Trixie was doing those very things to her friends). The events of that episode revealed that Trixie was not as powerful as she said she was, resulting in her downfall. I do think Trixie's decline was very unfortunate and sad, but I really don't think you can blame Twilight for it.

[Spartan 433]

Trixie brought it apon herself.. Twilight had almost no other way of dealing with her the first time.. This can be compaired to Celestia's and Luna's original fight.. Celestia didnt want to fight, but Luna forced her..

[Leafeon 2,701]

I don't understand the argument at all that Twilight Ruined Trixies Career. She ruined her own Career. Twilight didn't want to fight her. Twilight refused to show her up the first time around. The only thing Twilight did was beat the Ursa Minor which Trixie could not do. Period. If not for Trixie being an arrogant, spiteful, hateful bitch to begin with, none of this would have happened to her. She then decided on revenge as the course of action since she KNEW she couldn't beat Twilight fair. If you want to go head for head, Trixie is just a Trixster. Thats her talent. Tricks. Twilight is is far more advanced.

 

I actually have never thought of it that way.

 

However, I still side with Trixie. Even if it was not Twi's intention, it still happened. It was all the other ponies intentions to get Trixie off the stage and to get out of Ponyville, Rarity even ripping apart Trixie's stage to do so (Though her curtains are like Wolverine. They heal almost instantly. That's pretty impressive.). Boasting is actually a way for a lot of performers, especially magicians, to get followers and fame and what not.

 

And yes, Trixie's talent is tricks. She's a performer. That's what they do. It doesn't matter if Twilight, or any other pony that is not performing, is better then her. She still is supposed to make herself look like the best. If she doesn't she can't make a living and therefore can't live. And since her special talent is doing tricks, that's also really all she can do.

 

So even though Twilight had to do what she had to do, she's the reason Trixie became hated by everypony.

 

Screw it. EVERYONE BLAME SNIPS AND SNAILS.

[Whofch 128]

It was Trixie's fault being shunned by people, she had a very unlikable personality. Twilight showed her up by saving the town, she can't really be blamed for anything there.

As for the cheating. Who cares if she cheats if it's to save her town? I don't see how anybody could complain about that.

 

I was happy to see that she realised she went too far and apologised. I could dig a nice yet somewhat arrogant Trixie if she were to return.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Turpow

[Galex Dj 173]

I actually have never thought of it that way.

 

However, I still side with Trixie. Even if it was not Twi's intention, it still happened. It was all the other ponies intentions to get Trixie off the stage and to get out of Ponyville, Rarity even ripping apart Trixie's stage to do so (Though her curtains are like Wolverine. They heal almost instantly. That's pretty impressive.). Boasting is actually a way for a lot of performers, especially magicians, to get followers and fame and what not.

 

And yes, Trixie's talent is tricks. She's a performer. That's what they do. It doesn't matter if Twilight, or any other pony that is not performing, is better then her. She still is supposed to make herself look like the best. If she doesn't she can't make a living and therefore can't live. And since her special talent is doing tricks, that's also really all she can do.

 

So even though Twilight had to do what she had to do, she's the reason Trixie became hated by everypony.

 

Screw it. EVERYONE BLAME SNIPS AND SNAILS.

 

When Trixie said that Twilight wrecked her carrer and everywhere she went she was a laughing stalker and she had to work on a rock farm to make money, I felt actually really bad for Trixie for once. I felt like Twilight did do a lot of damage to Trixie, but only after she left Ponyville and went to other towns. I just can't tell who's the good pony and who is the bad pony on this situation. 

[Obsidian_Winter 1,159]

I actually have never thought of it that way.

 

However, I still side with Trixie. Even if it was not Twi's intention, it still happened. It was all the other ponies intentions to get Trixie off the stage and to get out of Ponyville, Rarity even ripping apart Trixie's stage to do so (Though her curtains are like Wolverine. They heal almost instantly. That's pretty impressive.). Boasting is actually a way for a lot of performers, especially magicians, to get followers and fame and what not.

 

And yes, Trixie's talent is tricks. She's a performer. That's what they do. It doesn't matter if Twilight, or any other pony that is not performing, is better then her. She still is supposed to make herself look like the best. If she doesn't she can't make a living and therefore can't live. And since her special talent is doing tricks, that's also really all she can do.

 

So even though Twilight had to do what she had to do, she's the reason Trixie became hated by everypony.

 

Screw it. EVERYONE BLAME SNIPS AND SNAILS.

I can respect your opinion even if I myself do not share it. I see your point and it is valid. I just think she got what she deserved. Though in the end, she was redeemed.

[Dusty Soul 2,611]

I honestly didn't mind, I mean I think it's ok to use that if the pony is being a huge jerk.  Honestly the only thing I found awkward was the apologizing scene, because it didn't feel like it was in Trixie's character.

[pinkiefan1287 610]

True they cheated to win, but guesses what would have happen if they did not cheat?? They would have still been in slave to a BIG BLUE JERK, thats what.

 

 

 

Yep. Plus Twilight ruined Trixie's career, making Trixie go to such lengths for revenge. Then Trixie apologizes for being mean while having the amulet on, yet Twilight wrecked her career, literally what she was born for, just because her gimmick was boasting.

 

That being said, unless Twilight acknowledges what she did to Trixie, all her arguments aren't valid.

 

Also, Celestia is still waiting for a letter.

 

 

I do feel bad for Trixie for the reasons Firebolt stated, what with her finally getting revenge against the mare who ruined her career, and then being forced to apologize by the writers. I do however believe she should've gotten her revenge in a less Jafar-like way. But the amulet corrupted her, so I guess it's okay...?

 

 

When Trixie said that Twilight wrecked her carrer and everywhere she went she was a laughing stalker and she had to work on a rock farm to make money, I felt actually really bad for Trixie for once. I felt like Twilight did do a lot of damage to Trixie, but only after she left Ponyville and went to other towns. I just can't tell who's the good pony and who is the bad pony on this situation. 

 

Why does everyone think that it was Twilight's fault for ruining Trixies career? It was Trixies lying that ruined her career, she just blames Twilight for all the bad things that are happening in her life and does not want to admit it was her own fault. 

[Fridge 382]

As for the 'cheating' aspect, I don't see it. Celestia herself may have had trouble beating that necklace. THe mane six tricked her by playing into what she wanted most...more power. Even before the necklace corrupted her, she treated ponies poorly. I personally feel she got what she deserved. I have ZERO sympathy for her. I think it was kind of Twilight to not make the same deal with Trixie that Trixie made with her....Winner becomes exiled. There was no compitition...not really. They just wanted to get that amulet off her neck.

 

Also as stated in the episode the only pony that can remove the amulet is the wearer of the amulet themselves. They had to trick her to so that the abuse of other ponies would stop.

Also I would say part of the moral of the story is that you don't have to outpower someone to win, just out smart them.

[Dreadmallon 353]

True they cheated to win, but guesses what would have happen if they did not cheat?? They would have still been in slave to a BIG BLUE JERK, thats what.

 

Why does everyone think that it was Twilight's fault for ruining Trixies career? It was Trixies lying that ruined her career, she just blames Twilight for all the bad things that are happening in her life and does not want to admit it was her own fault. 

 

I just tried to say that the whole aspect of Trixie apologizing didn't seem necessary at all. I know they couldn't of had her just run away like in her first appearance, but after all the trouble she went through in between her two episodes, she actually believes that it's Twilight's fault, and I don't believe that changed when she was saved from the Amulet. Thus, it was a misplaced apology.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Prince Dusk

[Leafeon 2,701]

Why does everyone think that it was Twilight's fault for ruining Trixies career? It was Trixies lying that ruined her career, she just blames Twilight for all the bad things that are happening in her life and does not want to admit it was her own fault. 

 *points to post made in response to Obsidian_Winter* That would be my opinion at least (I'm too lazy to type it out again. )

 

On another note, I actually am pretty much fine with them cheating to beat her. However, the apology scene was unnessesary and didn't add anything. It mostly just took away from Trixie's character.

[Koori 156]

My two cents on this: I think Trixie could have avoided the whole situation, if she just hadn't behaved all high and mighty, humiliating other ponies with her magic. It was that behavior which made her pay a high price. For argument's sake I will also say that Twilight wasn't really responsible for ruining Trixie's career. All she did was stop Ursa Minor, that's all. It was Snips and Snails that actually ruined Trixie's career because it was THEM that originally went and woke up the Ursa Minor while it was sleeping, believing Trixie could stop it.

 

It is actually that reason why I can't understand why Trixie stated that it was Twilight that ruined her career. I can only guess that she was quite jealous of Twilight's magic and the amulet amplified that emotion, causing her to hate Twilight been better than her.

 

As for the 2nd duel... Well, I think the duel demonstrated a similar fact that can be found when seeing a skinny man fighting a muscular man. At first the muscular man might win, but eventually the skinny man would win after watching and studying the opponent. Twilight did this with the help of Zecora and because it was a magic duel, a mind vs. mind, against an item that had an alicorn's power within it (or so I think), which couldn't be removed unless the wearer herself would do it, I think Twilight did the only smart thing she could have done and used her friends to make Trixie remove the amulet thus showing that you don't need to really fight head on against a strong opponent by yourself or maybe even at all.

 

Also, we have to keep in mind that the amulet had the power to corrupt whoever wore the item so Trixie wasn't herself and was behaving much worse by tormenting other ponies instead of just boasting. Twilight understood this and could thus forgive Trixie. And Trixie herself wanted that amulet, after all. However, I think Trixie didn't know the full extent of the amulet's power and didn't know it would corrupt her. After the ordeal she realized it and felt very bad about it.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Koori

[Bucky McGillyCuddy 956]

I may have to re-watch Boast Busters again but I don't specifically remember twilight doing anything wrong to Trixie and I definitely wouldn't say that twilight ruined her life. Anything bad that happened towards Trixie was her own damn fault.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Bucky_McGillycuddy

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

I actually have never thought of it that way.

 

However, I still side with Trixie. Even if it was not Twi's intention, it still happened. It was all the other ponies intentions to get Trixie off the stage and to get out of Ponyville, Rarity even ripping apart Trixie's stage to do so (Though her curtains are like Wolverine. They heal almost instantly. That's pretty impressive.). Boasting is actually a way for a lot of performers, especially magicians, to get followers and fame and what not.

 

And yes, Trixie's talent is tricks. She's a performer. That's what they do. It doesn't matter if Twilight, or any other pony that is not performing, is better then her. She still is supposed to make herself look like the best. If she doesn't she can't make a living and therefore can't live. And since her special talent is doing tricks, that's also really all she can do.

 

So even though Twilight had to do what she had to do, she's the reason Trixie became hated by everypony.

 

Screw it. EVERYONE BLAME SNIPS AND SNAILS.

Snips and Snails wouldn't have disturbed the Ursa Minor if Trixie hadn't boasted about it in the first place. That is where the chain originates (Trixie tells a lie about beating an Ursa Major-->Snips uses it as proof of her greatness-->Spike points out that it hasn't been proven-->Snips and Snails try to prove it-->Ursa Minor comes to town-->Twilight beats Ursa Minor-->Trixie gets humiliated.) If you're talking about responsibility for Trixie's troubles, you can't just jump to the end of the chain. In fact, given that Trixie was in just as much danger as the rest of the town (especially after trying to stop the Ursa and just making it angrier, which would likely make her the target of it's anger) Twilight saved her as much as she saved the rest of the ponies in town.

 

Secondly, the other ponies never expressed any intention of forcing Trixie to leave town. And Rarity certainly did not tear her curtains for spite, and in fact made a beautiful dress out of them, to show Trixie that magic can be used for more than fireworks and zapping ponies with lightning. You make it sound as if Rarity was being spiteful, which she certainly was not. (A lady has better sense than that.)

[dad george 105]

Kinda... Trixie didn't really cheat though, because as far as I know, there are no rules against using an evil amulet with a stupid name.

But it was morally wrong. Also, while cheating isn't right, the rules of the magic duel only said something about banishing Twiley, not about enslaving all of Ponyville and keeping them in a fishbowl.

[Feather Gem 965]

Well, all I know is that Twilight should have apologized even though Trixie was a jerk.

Twilight practically ruined Trixie's life.  D:

[khaine21x3 789]

Before I go to the actual discussion thread I figured it was necessary to make a thread where we could discuss the obligatory topic that is going to come up with "Magic Duel" and make people think that the writers invalidated the moral of the episode.

 

In other words: the-Mane-Six-are-a-bunch-of-hypocrites-and-they-cheated-just-as-much-as-Trixie-did-and-that's-not-fair argument. Basically the same thing that came up in Mare-Do-Well. 

 

Hopefully you can guess my opinion of this, and will leave it up to you guys to decide.

 

I think that the end justify the means in this case, SHE HAD TO ABOLISH SLAVERY and save her friends from an evil foreign dictator that's bent on torturing them just for laughs.

[Faceless 101]

Well, as per usual, Twilight brought friendship into it.

 

Here is how I think the letter might of gone:

 

Dear Princess Celestia,

 

Today, I learned that, sometimes, we can be corrupted by the strangest of things. All you need is some friends to help you recover. I realised that friendship, as well as needing to be saved, must help save ponies to.

 

Your Faithful Student,

 

Faceless Flyer Twilight Sparkle.

[mycarhasaMoustache 449]

I liked the way they won I thought it was pretty cleaver, Lets face it the only other option would be to get the elements of harmony....again   Witch are starting to become a bit of a gimmick so I dont think they did cheat plus they needed trixie to want to take off the amulet since she was the only one who could, But they couldn't risk her ending up with an even more powerful thing so apart from using a taser on trixe I think the way they beat her was the only way it could be done. Apart from twilight becoming stupidly powerful through a training montage.

[None42069 520]

Yep. Plus Twilight ruined Trixie's career, making Trixie go to such lengths for revenge. Then Trixie apologizes for being mean while having the amulet on, yet Twilight wrecked her career, literally what she was born for, just because her gimmick was boasting.

 

That being said, unless Twilight acknowledges what she did to Trixie, all her arguments aren't valid.

 

Also, Celestia is still waiting for a letter.

I put the blame on Snips and Snails. They bought the obviously fake story of her defeating the Ursa Major and wanted to call it to Ponyville. They almost DESTROYED that village! What Twilight did wasn't to show off or wreck her career, it was to save Ponyville!

 

So if those two ponies hadn't brought the Ursa Minor to Ponyville, Twilight wouldn't have wrecked her career. Remember, she NEVER WANTED to show off her magic to everyone!