Topic on topics

[Sunset Spark 60]

Though this is actually pretty petty, I've been following a pattern recently.

 

There are many threads I'd like to post in, but whenever they have a moderate to large number of replies already, I tend to just not post there.

 

 

I also find I can't comment on art topics because it's a fairly touchy subject.

(drawing/painting/etc is a show of self-confidence, especially if you post it... I have an obvious habit of trying to detail the mistakes rather than the finer points)

 

 

So here are my questions.

 

-----

 

Do you normally read ALL the posts in a thread with many replies? (say 20 or more)

(realistically, of course)

 

 

&

 

 

What do you think of people who give negative art critique and claim to have experience but do not have any proof nor intend to offer proof at all?

(many, if not all of the art thread replies I have seen seem to praise rather than give such critique)

 

----

[Barbossa 47]

I usually praise what I like, then if they asked for critique, give the proper critique, as a fledgeling artist myself, I don't always have much to offer, but I offer what I can, but I stil and think about what I'm saying to make sure it isn't something that they might pride themselves in.

 

as for large topics, I find it tough to post in thiem sometimes, but if it's a thread asking for thoughts, I state my thoughts, even if others have already posted them in order to add to the pile of opinions of that type.

I'll at the very least read the last 2 pages or so, to see if there is a current conversation going on that I would like to contribute to.

[Azure Flames 302]

if its a topic that i can put my thoughts in and not BS on my reply ill post in it no matter how many reply are already there

 

as for art i praise them if i like it and just pass by if i dont since i have no art skills i believe i have no right to criticizes  others

[kirbyboi 587]

Well, for me it doesn't matter how many pages or posts that thread has. If I can respond to it, I will. I usually read the first three-five pages, and then I read the page that I'm posting on (the latest posts of that thread). If I agree with any of them, I give them a brohoof.

 

For art, everypony's a good artist, so I usually have nothing negative to say. However, I'll always gave them things to improve on, and give them tips on how they can make it better. I don't mind others giving negative critiques, as long as they're not mean about it. 

[Sky Warden 2,243]

It depends on how interesting the topic is. If it takes my interest, I don't mind reading up to three pages before posting, but if it's just a regular thread which isn't really interesting, I will just read until it goes boring, which usually happens in the edge of the first page.

 

As for critique without reason, curse those people. At least give a reason why do you think an art is bad. Don't just say "It's suck. You shouldn't have drawn it." then don't give the reason. I will prefer something like "It's suck. The proportion is false and the shading is bad in this part." or in music "I don't like this. It tells me nothing, and the lyric is pointless. You must play the instrument to transfer the feeling like this."

 

That's the kind of critiques I appreciate.

[Dusty Soul 2,611]

I honestly read the first page of replies then reply myself.  As for art work, I give tips on how they can be better, as I really am bad at writing critique.

[Betez 1,734]

I'll always try to read the OP, and maybe the first page, but no. I don't read entire threads just to see if what I want to post has been posted before. Unless it's like 2 pages.

 

I don't think you should worry about the number of pages in a thread. Post whatever you want.

[Stalliongrad 982]

I read maybe a few pages if the topic is interesting enough. I also find it hard to post on art. I am not artistically gifted in the slightest it doesn't seem right for me to tell someone else where they need improvement.

[Sunset Spark 60]

It depends on how interesting the topic is. If it takes my interest, I don't mind reading up to three pages before posting, but if it's just a regular thread which isn't really interesting, I will just read until it goes boring, which usually happens in the edge of the first page.

 

As for critique without reason, curse those people. At least give a reason why do you think an art is bad. Don't just say "It's suck. You shouldn't have drawn it." then don't give the reason. I will prefer something like "It's suck. The proportion is false and the shading is bad in this part." or in music "I don't like this. It tells me nothing, and the lyric is pointless. You must play the instrument to transfer the feeling like this."

 

That's the kind of critiques I appreciate.

 

Not to say it's bad in any sense.

I do believe that art is a subjective matter and whether it's good or bad varies.

 

However... let's say somepony goes to art school and has higher standards than what we usually see here on MLPforums.

Of course, he/she will be civilized about it, but he/she will throw out so many mistakes to fix that it's hard to see it in terms of him/her being helpful.

He/she isn't particularly talented or great with it, but personally, he/she is confident he/she is good enough with enough experience to give said critique.

 

Of COURSE it will sound harsh when there's a list of 10-50 mistakes. (exaggeration, but you get the idea)

He/she won't directly say it sucks, but the sheer number of objective correction makes it obvious he/she thinks it is bad.

 

To make it clear..

IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER FOR MOST, IT WILL LOOK VERY VERY VERY VERY MEAN AND HARSH.

ONLY THE MOST TOLERANT OF BRONIES WILL TAKE IT KINDLY.

IT WILL SOUND AS IF SOMEONE IS MAKING YOUR VERY EXISTENCE LOOK BAD.

(art is still a form of expression, anyone who shoots it down, will sound harsh, regardless of tone or manners, in my experience)

Edited February 22, 2013 by Sunset Spark

[Bucky McGillyCuddy 956]

If i can write more than 100 characters relating to the post i'll usually reply or sometimes i'll just go to read some of the members opinions on how much they detest Twilicorn.

[Sky Warden 2,243]

 

However... let's say somepony goes to art school and has higher standards than what we usually see here on MLPforums. Of course, he/she will be civilized about it, but he/she will throw out so many mistakes to fix that it's hard to see it in terms of him/her being helpful. He/she isn't particularly talented or great with it, but personally, he/she is confident he/she is good enough with enough experience to give said critique.

 

Knowledge is knowledge. Feeling of esthetic is feeling of esthetic. Point of view is point of view. Different people see things the different way. A man may see something which another man doesn't and vice versa. More point of views complete each other. Filling the hole of esthetic demand of each other. Adding knowledge to each other.

 

No matter how talented a man is, he can't see everything he has to see on something. That's why critiques are good. It doesn't rely on talented or educated. It relies on how open your mind is to learn.

 

The truth is the truth. If it's bad, then it is. More point of views will point you more hidden mistakes, and hidden beauty. That's how something develops.

[Barbossa 47]

Knowledge is knowledge. Feeling of esthetic is feeling of esthetic. Point of view is point of view. Different people see things the different way. A man may see something which another man doesn't and vice versa. More point of views complete each other. Filling the hole of esthetic demand of each other. Adding knowledge to each other.

 

No matter how talented a man is, he can't see everything he has to see on something. That's why critiques are good. It doesn't rely on talented or educated. It relies on how open your mind is to learn.

 

The truth is the truth. If it's bad, then it is. More point of views will point you more hidden mistakes, and hidden beauty. That's how something develops.

 

True, but too much negative critique, without any positive critique can easily cause people to be disuaded, like what their doing isn't worthwhile at all.

I feel everybody's art is worthwhile, especially if it leads to improvement. Carefully planning words is still important.

 

what's even worse is when there aren't replies at all, it doesn't help the artist in any way, and sometimes leaves them feeling like their art wasn't worthwhile enough to comment on at all. When most of the time it's just people aren't sure what to say.

[Sunset Spark 60]

Knowledge is knowledge. Feeling of esthetic is feeling of esthetic. Point of view is point of view. Different people see things the different way. A man may see something which another man doesn't and vice versa. More point of views complete each other. Filling the hole of esthetic demand of each other. Adding knowledge to each other.

 

No matter how talented a man is, he can't see everything he has to see on something. That's why critiques are good. It doesn't rely on talented or educated. It relies on how open your mind is to learn.

 

The truth is the truth. If it's bad, then it is. More point of views will point you more hidden mistakes, and hidden beauty. That's how something develops.

 

Poetic, but not actually answering my question.

What do you think of such critiques?

What if I told you I think your avatar is ugly? (of course, let's just assume it was your own work)

Let's pretend I gave some detailed explanation of where you did it badly or something.

How would you think of me?

 

I already mentioned that I can see art as subjective.

What concerns knowledge here is that it fuels skill.

 

Critiques, from where I see, are an evaluation of worth and skill.

[Sky Warden 2,243]

True, but too much negative critique, without any positive critique can easily cause people to be disuaded, like what their doing isn't worthwhile at all.

I feel everybody's art is worthwhile, especially if it leads to improvement. Carefully planning words is still important.

 

what's even worse is when there aren't replies at all, it doesn't help the artist in any way, and sometimes leaves them feeling like their art wasn't worthwhile enough to comment on at all. When most of the time it's just people aren't sure what to say.

Aye. I've said that more point of view can also reveal the hidden beauty right? Why not mention them while making a critique?

 

Poetic, but not actually answering my question.

What do you think of such critiques?

What if I told you I think your avatar is ugly? (of course, let's just assume it was your own work)

Let's pretend I gave some detailed explanation of where you did it badly or something.

How would you think of me?

 

I already mentioned that I can see art as subjective.

What concerns knowledge here is that it fuels skill.

 

Critiques, from where I see, are an evaluation of worth and skill.

I think that answers the question already. Odd isn't it? Ah yes. Point of view.

 

Why mad if you have an opened mind? I appreciate a critic because it reveals what I didn't see. A critic with reasons I will say. That avatar isn't made by me. It's by Crystal Rose. Still, I won't mind it if someone critiques my art. My writing or my martial art. Seriously, if you're open minded, you will feel that an input can be very helpful for you to develop your things.

 

It's true that sometimes it hurts to take mean critique. Do you think I'm happily accept a successful hit while testing my martial art? Of course not. I'm still a human being who can feel pain, but it worth it. I can develop my martial art to prevent such hit from hurting me next time, and see the result. A beautiful art, and I must thank you for pointing me that flaw I missed earlier. Savvy?

[Barbossa 47]

Aye. I've said that more point of view can also reveal the hidden beauty right? Why not mention them while making a critique?

 

I think that answers the question already. Odd isn't it? Ah yes. Point of view.

 

Why mad if you have an opened mind? I appreciate a critic because it reveals what I didn't see. A critic with reasons I will say. That avatar isn't made by me. It's by Crystal Rose. Still, I won't mind it if someone critiques my art. My writing or my martial art. Seriously, if you're open minded, you will feel that an input can be very helpful for you to develop your things.

 

It's true that sometimes it hurts to take mean critique. Do you think I'm happily accept a successful hit while testing my martial art? Of course not. I'm still a human being who can feel pain, but it worth it. I can develop my martial art to prevent such hit from hurting me next time, and see the result. A beautiful art, and I must thank you for pointing me that flaw I missed earlier. Savvy?

 

I understand that, but not everybody has a stalwart barrier of confidence they can improve, for some it's them stepping deeply out of their shell.

You may be able to take it with stride, and be a little sad while you take it into account, but others may not be able to. Some people shrivel back up with too much negativity, even if it isn't inteded by the person giving the critique. I've known people that they've completely stopped drawing, or writing because all they got out of the things they actually posted, which they were most proud of, was negative critique.

 

But to answer about hidden beauty, not all people post about things they like. They go "this is what I don't like" and even though they like things they don't notice/post because they think it's normal and not needed to be commented on.

I try to say everything I like before I say what I dislike.

You and I might do that, and try to provide positive in everything we say, but not all people do.

 

Also: as I said before, so many people just breeze by things and not posting, and the artists miss out on a lot of points of view, sometimes getting very little posts because their art is "ok, but not great"

This is the point I'm at. My art isn't horrendous, but it isn't fantastic. As a result, SO many people just blow past it, so I've gotten a little stuck with my art. I keep practicing, of course, and that makes some headway over time, but hearing people's opinions is always nice, and confidence raising that I'm not just wasting time.

 

Also also: please don't think this is all directed at you like I'm assuming a lot in what you say, some of it is just me trying to clarify what I said before with more words, and slightly deeper formed opinion.

[Sunset Spark 60]

Some people shrivel back up with too much negativity, even if it isn't inteded by the person giving the critique. I've known people that they've completely stopped drawing, or writing because all they got out of the things they actually posted, which they were most proud of, was negative critique.

 

This is what worries me more than anything when trying to post on art topics.

For certain genres of forums(particularly rage-kid pvp forums), I won't even bother holding back.

People like them(and me) don't give up, rather, they get annoyed/mad/etc and work harder at it.

 

However, I don't see MLPForums as such a harsh environment and cannot bring myself to critique.

I might be wrong, so I want more opinions first before I make a final decision to leave the art section alone permanently.

[Sky Warden 2,243]

 

*snip*

Also also: please don't think this is all directed at you like I'm assuming a lot in what you say, some of it is just me trying to clarify what I said before with more words, and slightly deeper formed opinion.

Do I look like a man with a sensitive girly feeling? No matter to me.

 

Aye. That's the challenge. I always try to make my reviews as kind as possible, but still contains some good slaps for them. I make this quote :

"A slap always makes them remember what you said before the slap."

[Barbossa 47]

This is what worries me more than anything when trying to post on art topics.

For certain genres of forums(particularly rage-kid pvp forums), I won't even bother holding back.

People like them(and me) don't give up, rather, they get annoyed/mad/etc and work harder at it.

 

However, I don't see MLPForums as such a harsh environment and cannot bring myself to critique.

I might be wrong, so I want more opinions first before I make a final decision to leave the art section alone permanently.

 

I think as long as you provide some kind of positive with the negative, making them generally equal. You'll be pretty safe.

I know when I was younger I used to get hurt a lot more by negative critique, and any time people gave me anything positive, even with negative, I felt like what I did was worthwhile, and continuing to do it was worth it.

 

 

 

 

 

Do I look like a man with a sensitive girly feeling? No matter to me.

 

Aye. That's the challenge. I always try to make my reviews as kind as possible, but still contains some good slaps for them. I make this quote :

"A slap always makes them remember what you said before the slap."

 

That's a good quote, I quite like it

Slaps are for sure necissary for improvement when you hit a block. Negative critique is super useful.

 

And, you may not have sensitive feelings, but I've had people get really pissed off at me for things like that in the past, so I prefer to make sure.

 

edited: curse my terrible lazy spelling, thanks sunset spark for correcting me.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Barbossa

[Sunset Spark 60]

I think as long as you provide some kind of positive with the negative, making them generally equal. You'll be pretty safe.

I know when I was younger I used to get hurt a lot more by negative critique, and any time people gave me anything positive, even with negative, I felt like what I did was worthwhile, and continueing to do it was worth it.

 

continuing*

 

I know what you're saying, but I can't expect everyone to be as mature on such matters.

That's what this thread was generally intended for.

 

I'm sure not everyone will have similar ideals, but I'd like to at least see the general, personal output of other bronies.

[Sky Warden 2,243]

That's a good quote, I quite like it

Slaps are for sure necissary for improvement when you hit a block. Negative critique is super useful.

 

And, you may not have sensitive feelings, but I've had people get really pissed off at me for things like that in the past, so I prefer to make sure.

 

edited: curse my terrible lazy spelling, thanks sunset spark for correcting me.

 

continuing*

 

I know what you're saying, but I can't expect everyone to be as mature on such matters.

That's what this thread was generally intended for.

 

I'm sure not everyone will have similar ideals, but I'd like to at least see the general, personal output of other bronies.

That's it. The matter is that. They need to grow up and be open minded. How are we supposed to help them without giving them critiques? Balance it with the good parts, and everything will be just fine.

[Sunset Spark 60]

That's it. The matter is that. They need to grow up and be open minded. How are we supposed to help them without giving them critiques? Balance it with the good parts, and everything will be just fine.

 

I have my personal belief that some people should be given purely positive support first.

I used to be like that.

Until the day SOMEONE(I will never forget that d***f***, even if I know he helped me, he clearly didn't intend to) told me I couldn't do something I really wanted to.

I was mad enough to change my entire lifestyle over what he said.

[Sky Warden 2,243]

I have my personal belief that some people should be given purely positive support first.

I used to be like that.

Until the day SOMEONE(I will never forget that d***f***, even if I know he helped me, he clearly didn't intend to) told me I couldn't do something I really wanted to.

I was mad enough to change my entire lifestyle over what he said.

Welcome to the Internet. I shall be your guide.

 

That's what I was talking about. People who critique just to troll. Give no reason they will. Look like a retard they shall.

[Starflower 323]

If I find a topic that's interesting enough for me to post, then I'll post it. It depends on the content of the topic, the discussion of the topic, and/or how members are handling the quality of the topic. It's a rarity for me to stay away from a topic it it doesn't meet the requirements above, especially in this forum. xD On other forums, I tend to feel a bit irritated because of the members discussing the topic.

[Winterbass 763]

In certain topics yes, for example when it's about politics or any kind of topic that requires you to know what the others have said before posting (because posting something that someone has already said, in general terms not subjective terms, is kinda redundant). If I for example needed to give information about something I make sure that I am the first one to say that piece of information. For a topic such as this, nah, not all, it's the personal opinion kind of thread so not all opinions are really that important to read, though I do skim over all of them before saying anything.

 

About the negative art critique, I don't really care about that, as long as it is constructive and polite it won't bug me at all, in fact, I'm thankful for the people who point out my mistakes, even though some things that have been pointed out aren't mistakes at all, but just my style, anatomical errors included. I wouldn't know anyone who would't be happy with constructive criticism really, even if it comes from someone who has no knowledge about anything related to art, it's still valuable information that you can put to use in order to improve yourself.