Is Equestria Girls Faithful to Faust's Vision of MLP?

[Tollhouse 79]

Ok I posted something similar to this in another topic but I thought it should probably have a topic of its own. 

 

Let's forget about whatever story Equestria Girls has in store for its audience.   I'm goona talk strictly about the characters of Equestria Girls.  Are they faithful to Lauren Faust's characters?  The ones she designed herself.  Where they given the same kind of artistic integrity as their pony counterparts.  I sure as hey don't.  Here's why. 

 

Lauren Faust has made it clear in interviews that she wanted to prove to everypony that a little girls' show can be enjoyed by ponies of all ages.  When she created My Little Pony Friendship is Magic, she wanted to create a show where the characters weren't all about tea parties, checking out boys, and just standing around just to look pretty.  She didn't want to make a show to teach girls that they had to be that way.  That's why in MLP you have female characters who are really girly, sort of girly, and tomboyish but are all still great friends.  It teaches girls that they can be themselves and that they don't have to conform to any certain stereotype.  Then you have the exciting adventures, and the clever humor to go along with the characters too.  That's why we love the show. 

 

Now, here is my criticism for Equestria Girls.   The character designs are horrid.  I think this is the opposite of what Lauren's intentions for MLP were.  The mane 6 ponies have been reduced to 6 pretty faces, each with small midsections, and elongated legs.  They all wear their hair long and they have similar clothing too.  Notice they all wear short skirts with boots/legwarmers.  This just kills a big chunk of their uniqueness, as I'm sure 6 friends with all different personalities wouldn't all choose similar clothes like that.   Now pretty much the only way the human mane 6 can express themselves as individuals is through their actions and personality as their bodies and clothes are basically the same shape and look. The human character bodies are so idealized and sexualized that is pretty much takes away that magic MLP FIM has and the vision that Faust intended.

 

Yeah we all know Hasbro is out there for the money but it still doesn't change the fact that this MLP spinoff was created with the wrong artistic integrity.  I wonder what Lauren thinks of to this day what has happen to her characters as they have become pretty much the very thing she wanted to avoid when making the show from the beginning.

 

What do you ponies think?   This is all my opinion.   The movie can still be good as I'm sure the writing will be strong as the tv series.  I just feel that the heart of the characters design falls short in this one.  That's all.  

[NeverAgain653289he32 285]

OI!

 

Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I feel that after watching the trailer that it's meant highly for the female audience, and the character design kind of looked a bit off to me. It seems like it's going to be pretty bland, and it is without a doubt very cliche. "The young princess has to face her toughest challenge yet..... high school". I mean come on it looks really girly and tries to appeal to a teenage girls demographic. The characters all look like they are kind of blending together into girly girly stereotypes, but I'm going to go see it anyways.

 

~RD4

[Nohbdy 4,108]

I think the character designs are by far the biggest issue with Equestria Girls, both for the reasons you stated and because they're just plain ugly. 

 

Characters in MLP each have their own defining personality traits. It makes them unique, and it promotes the message that girls don't have to act a certain way. The designs in Equestria Girls definitely appear contrary to this message. I can't see Applejack or Rainbow Dash wearing skirts in everyday life. Can you? In fact, one would probably have to force Rainbow Dash to wear one, even if she were wearing shorts underneath. It doesn't fit the characters. It's not very diverse, either, and screams laziness on the part of the designers.

 

If there's one thing that I can judge without watching the movie, it's the character design. And it is horrid. 

[Tollhouse 79]

They're trying to appeal to a teenage demograph

 

  On 2013-05-26 at 8:19 PM, Rainbow Dash The Fourth said:

OI!

 

Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I feel that after watching the trailer that it's meant highly for the female audience, and the character design kind of looked a bit off to me. It seems like it's going to be pretty bland, and it is without a doubt very cliche. "The young princess has to face her toughest challenge yet..... high school". I mean come on it looks really girly and tries to appeal to a teenage girls demographic. The characters all look like they are kind of blending together into girly girly stereotypes, but I'm going to go see it anyways.

 

~RD4

They're trying to appeal to a teenage demographic?  Strange, but the fans younger then 10 are still going to see it anyway since it's based on the show. 

[Sir.Flutter Hooves 2,953]

I think it is. First off, the creators are keeping the original character's personality's which was Faust's visions. So, yea, it is still faithful.

[Tollhouse 79]

  On 2013-05-26 at 8:22 PM, Тwilight Sparkle said:

I think the character designs are by far the biggest issue with Equestria Girls, both for the reasons you stated and because they're just plain ugly. 

 

Characters in MLP each have their own defining personality traits. It makes them unique, and it promotes the message that girls don't have to act a certain way. The designs in Equestria Girls definitely appear contrary to this message. I can't see Applejack or Rainbow Dash wearing skirts in everyday life. Can you? In fact, one would probably have to force Rainbow Dash to wear one, even if she were wearing shorts underneath. It doesn't fit the characters. It's not very diverse, either, and screams laziness on the part of the designers.

 

If there's one thing that I can judge without watching the movie, it's the character design. And it is horrid. 

Agreed completely.  I would think AJ and RD would both be wearing jeans.  At least they got one piece of clothing right; Apple Jack's hat. 

[MadPointer 75]

Shortly after the EqG announcement Lauren Faust tweeted "Even "American Girls" was once radically positive for girls before it was homogenized for money. http://bit.ly/18FzobY".

Edited May 26, 2013 by MadPointer

[Ezio Auditore 702]

I don't know I think they look okay, I mean their skin color is weird and all but whatever, They look like girls, girls with big ugly boot things, but girls nontheless.

[Mr. Jaguar 1,403]

I think they'll keep the same personalities, probably (considering the fact that Rainbow Dash, for example, in the trailer was shown playing a sport, something that's I don't imagine most people see as a stereotypical girly thing, and that there'd be no point in using the characters but not their personalities, as those are what make them who they are), but I agree the designs are terrible in that they all look too damn similar. I don't think they all look bad, but the lack of serious variety is lame, IMO, it harms their visual uniqueness to some extent.

[MadPointer 75]

In case you didn't know, Lauren Faust was initially pitching her Galaxy Girls to Hasbro but end up getting job on MLP which she liked as a kid.

 

[Fhaolan 4,484]

  On 2013-05-26 at 9:52 PM, MadPointer said:

In case you didn't know, Lauren Faust was initially pitching her Galaxy Girls to Hasbro but end up getting job on MLP which she liked as a kid.

 

 

From what I heard, Hasbro declined on GG because Lauren wanted to retain some form of ownership on it. Hasbro doesn't license stuff *from* people, they license stuff *to* people, so the entire idea was a bit of a non-starter for them. If Lauren had been willing to sell the concept outright to Hasbro they may have taken it.

 

However, look at those character designs again. Clothing pretty much 80's, just like EqG, just with more variety, plus roller-skates which I bet you very few people here have ever seen in RL. And the standard long legs and narrow waists that everyone is complaining about with EqG. The difference here being that the head art style is very much Lauren, looking like Power Puff Girls as teenagers.

 

So again, I might not like the concept of EqG myself, but I'm not seeing the issues that everyone is ranting over. Lauren has supposedly already gotten pretty upset at bronies for putting words in her mouth over the 'issues' she may or may not have with the way MLP is going, twisting her tweets to support whichever side the specific brony is on, rather than just taking her words at face value. 

 

She drove herself into nervous exhaustion trying to deal with this series, Hasbro, Discovery Communications, and the fandom, when she was head writer. I think everyone needs to stop trying to drag her into the various arguments, and let *her* make the decision to enter into the fray when she's ready. And all signs point to her not being ready yet. 

[Tollhouse 79]

  On 2013-05-26 at 10:28 PM, Fhaolan said:

From what I heard, Hasbro declined on GG because Lauren wanted to retain some form of ownership on it. Hasbro doesn't license stuff *from* people, they license stuff *to* people, so the entire idea was a bit of a non-starter for them. If Lauren had been willing to sell the concept outright to Hasbro they may have taken it.

 

However, look at those character designs again. Clothing pretty much 80's, just like EqG, just with more variety, plus roller-skates which I bet you very few people here have ever seen in RL. And the standard long legs and narrow waists that everyone is complaining about with EqG. The difference here being that the head art style is very much Lauren, looking like Power Puff Girls as teenagers.

 

So again, I might not like the concept of EqG myself, but I'm not seeing the issues that everyone is ranting over. Lauren has supposedly already gotten pretty upset at bronies for putting words in her mouth over the 'issues' she may or may not have with the way MLP is going, twisting her tweets to support whichever side the specific brony is on, rather than just taking her words at face value. 

 

She drove herself into nervous exhaustion trying to deal with this series, Hasbro, Discovery Communications, and the fandom, when she was head writer. I think everyone needs to stop trying to drag her into the various arguments, and let *her* make the decision to enter into the fray when she's ready. And all signs point to her not being ready yet. 

Now I'm not accusing you of saying I'm wrong but I thought I was pretty accurate with what I said.  I don't think I played around with Faust's words as she's mentioned the points I've referenced a number of times.  On Twitter recently she was ranting about how Disney drastically changed the look of Merida to make her more feminine with a curvier waist and such.   So she has that mentality.  I can't assume she'd automatically think the same for EqG.  But I have a strong feeling she doesn't like what they've done to her characters.

 

Has she even publicly thrown out her opinion of EqG?

[Anadu Kune 668]

Most dislike the character designs. They defiantly look weird to me. However all the stuff you talked about before may indeed still be present or it may not. Its what really matters anyway. Are these characters true to who we know them to be? We don't know. Will they check out boys, go shopping or have tea parties? We don't know and were just gonna have to wait and see. 

I agree on the lack of diversity in the designs though not quite on the criticism of body type. I mean just look at how skinny the Galaxy girls are. The lack of diversity may have come about for the same reason the ponies all have the same body type. It saves time in animation. Though maybe there were other reasons. 

[Fhaolan 4,484]

  On 2013-05-27 at 6:20 PM, Tollhouse said:

Now I'm not accusing you of saying I'm wrong but I thought I was pretty accurate with what I said.  I don't think I played around with Faust's words as she's mentioned the points I've referenced a number of times.  On Twitter recently she was ranting about how Disney drastically changed the look of Merida to make her more feminine with a curvier waist and such.   So she has that mentality.  I can't assume she'd automatically think the same for EqG.  But I have a strong feeling she doesn't like what they've done to her characters.

 

Has she even publicly thrown out her opinion of EqG?

 

Hiya! Actually, I was more speaking to @@MadPointer with my points. Sorry about hijacking your topic.

 

Nope, she hasn't publicly thrown out her opinion of EqG. Nor has she put out her opinion of MLP itself after she left. According to her posts, she is deliberately avoiding seeing any of the MLP episodes, and by extension MLP spin-offs like EqG. 

 

However, looking at other stuff she has done, specifically the Galaxy Girls posted above, and I honestly have difficulty seeing the difference in 'girl image principles' between the EqG character designs and the GG character designs. Beyond the face/eye shapes and the more varied clothing, there's not much difference to speak of in my opinion. They still have the elongated legs and narrow waists, and in most cases short skirts and they are all wearing the same footware (Probably because they're supposed to be some kind of rollerskate team, of course, so that doesn't count.) Plus while the clothing is more varied, it is all 80's styling, which EqG also appears to be following. 

 

The general art style could be compared to many different teen cartoon shows I've seen, including 'Littlest Pet Shop', 'Monster High', and so on. All similarly lacking in variety of character models. I would have preferred if they had followed a teen animation with more variety in figures, such as 'Total Drama Island', '6teen', etc. But you get what you pay for, and I get the feeling EqG's budget leant more to writing and VA-work than it did the art portion.

[Anadu Kune 668]

 

 

  On 2013-05-26 at 10:28 PM, Fhaolan said:

Lauren has supposedly already gotten pretty upset at bronies for putting words in her mouth over the 'issues' she may or may not have with the way MLP is going, twisting her tweets to support whichever side the specific brony is on, rather than just taking her words at face value

Pretty much this. Though I cant say if she really got upset by it. Though I do know she addressed certain things and some fans twisting words defiantly applies. 

http://derpicdn.net/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTMvMDIvMDUvMDNfMjRfMDhfOTg1XzIzNDEzMV9fVU5PUFRfX3NhZmVfdGV4dF9tZXRhX2xhdXJlbl9mYXVzdF9mYXVzdGljb3JuX21lZ2hhbl9tY2NhcnRoeS5wbmcucG5nIl1d/234131__safe_text_meta_50f982c8a4c72de10300008f_lauren-faust_fausticorn_meghan-mccarthy.png

this pic is a prime example which she addressed. Lauren said and I quote " I have no doubts that Meghan is doing her best to uphold the ideals brought to mlp this quote mash up is unfair" Unfair indeed. Taking two statements out of context to suit ones own needs is always as such. 

[RWB 229]

The reason for the lack of diversity in bodyshape is obvious.

 

Tell me, why do the mane FiM ponies all share the same body design?

 

 

Because you can do toys according to the same mold. This is also one of the reasons we had the "conehead" decepticons in another Hasbro series. As Anadu Kune also mentioned- saves time in animation.

 

 

The funny thing is that the EqGirls actually have more diverse designs than the FiM ponies by far. I am a bit annoyed with how skinny the mold is, but it's mostly fine- and for those people bringing up Chanokun's models?

 

Sorry, but they look bad compared to the EqG.

 

 

 

But the argument that really steams me about people complaining about designs is:

 

"RD and AJ shouldn't wear skirts! It makes no sense!"

 

1. When they wear clothes, both AJ and RD wear dresses.

2. There are pants in Equestria, yet neither AJ nor RD dresses in them except when it has a distinct purpose(Karate ensemble).

 

It's like people think tomboys don't wear skirts. There are a ton of them who do. RD has never, ever implied a dislike for skirts/dresses, in fact, it's more likely than not, if she was a human, that she would wear a skirt. AJ is along the same line, except "you can't work in short skirts"... and as a male who has actually tested a skirt, I can say that's bogus. I'm more limited by my shorts than by a short skirt that's not specifically made to be tight around the "parts"(which clearly isn't the case in EqG).

 

If you just prefer them in pants, or just think the skirts look bad, sure. But don't go saying it's stupid that characters with no predilection for "male" clothing doesn't wear it.

 

 

 

I'm not expecting the EG movie to be good(I always go in assuming a movie will suck, but willing to give it a chance), but I find a lot of the complaints bug me.

[Anadu Kune 668]

  On 2013-05-27 at 7:26 PM, Fhaolan said:

 

 But you get what you pay for, and I get the feeling EqG's budget leant more to writing and VA-work than it did the art portion.

Well that's hard to say until we see the full product. I do get the feeling they were leaning towards a monster Highish design though. From the trailer though it seems like the human models lend themselves far more towards the fluid animation the show is known for than I expected them to. 

[Fluttershyfan94 5,742]

I'm sure it will still be somewhat faithful, or well yeah. I think it will, but I read an article were they talked about their appearance and that it was showing that everyone needs to be thin and all. I don't think that's a good idea to show them this thin, the ponies looked just healthy. I don't know what to say.. But I agreed with that article, what if they are sending out a message that you have to be skinny and look like that. It just got me thinking. I'm still sure it will be awesome and it's entertainment while we wait for season 4.

 

Still the ponies were almost never in clothes. Why are they wearing clothes for pony sake?

  Reveal hidden contents

Heh, EQGfappers will become the new cloppers. You know it's true, it's probably the only fan art that will be created from the movie.

 

[Dusty Soul 2,612]

It's keeping the personalities, so that won't change.  The character models are very good IMO.  I can see why people have issues with them though.  I think they all (especially the CMC) look very well done.  Of course the character models are going to be similar as the ponies are almost exactly alike.  

[RWB 229]

  On 2013-05-27 at 7:52 PM, Fluttershyfan94 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Heh, EQGfappers will become the new cloppers. You know it's true, it's probably the only fan art that will be created from the movie.

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Already approaching 100 pictures on the R34 site- roughly half of what MLP had before FiM arrived. I'm not really surprised, as a lot of the FiM art was humanized in the first place. Once the movie hits, I'm expecting an explosion of new EqG art.

 

Edited May 27, 2013 by RWB

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,773]

While I do not like the concept of Equestria Girls (but will give it a chance), I will repeat what I said in a similar thread.

 

If Lauren wanted 'her' vision of MLP to stay intact, then she should not have left. Simple as that. Besides, we do not know if 'her' vision  would have been the best thing for the show down the line to begin with. That is all up for speculation but nothing more. EqG will have no impact on season 4 and FiM itself. So, I just cannot seem to care if it goes with Lauren's vision or not. 

Edited May 27, 2013 by Kyoshi

[MadPointer 75]

 

 

  On 2013-05-27 at 8:20 PM, Kyoshi said:

If Lauren wanted 'her' vision of MLP to stay intact, then she should not have left. Simple as that.

 

She might have left because she refused to compromise her vision when she was asked to adopt some mandated changes. She couldn't save her vision intact either way.

 

If the current MLP:FIM crew refuses to implement the mandated by Hasbro changes, they could be easily replaced with other people who might not care about the show and who will be willing to do whatever they're asked to do. It was bad enough that we already lost Lauren and we can't afford to lose the current crew.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,773]

  On 2013-05-27 at 9:02 PM, MadPointer said:

 

She might have left because she refused to compromise her vision when she was asked to adopt some mandated changes. She couldn't save her vision intact either way.

 

If the current MLP:FIM crew refuses to implement the mandated by Hasbro changes, they could be easily replaced with other people who might not care about the show and who will be willing to do whatever they're asked to do. It was bad enough that we already lost Lauren and we can't afford to lose the current crew.

 

That is the thing though, we don't know the exact situation to why she left. All we can do is speculate on that as well. Of course most want to jump on the 'because Hasbro is evil' train, but we just don't know specifically. 

[MadPointer 75]

  On 2013-05-27 at 9:08 PM, Kyoshi said:

That is the thing though, we don't know the exact situation to why she left. All we can do is speculate on that as well. Of course most want to jump on the 'because Hasbro is evil' train, but we just don't know specifically.

 

 

In this case several factors took place which made her quit.

 

 

These messages are from a guy who was editing the official Bronies documentary.

 

 

 

ADDED:

 

Lauren Faust tweeted:

"Even "American Girls" was once radically positive for girls before it was homogenized for money. http://bit.ly/18FzobY"

 

Note that the linked article was written in April and Lauren tweeted it on May 13th, the day when the trailer was released.

Edited May 27, 2013 by MadPointer

[Fhaolan 4,484]

  On 2013-05-27 at 9:16 PM, MadPointer said:

In this case several factors took place which made her quit.

 

 

These messages are from a guy who was editing the official Bronies documentary.

 

 

 

ADDED:

 

Lauren Faust tweeted:

"Even "American Girls" was once radically positive for girls before it was homogenized for money. 

 

Note that the linked article was written in April and Lauren tweeted it on May 13th, the day when the trailer was released.

 

(I had to remove the link, or I wasn't able to post? Odd, how did you post that link?)

 

You completely miss the point where that 'Guy who edited a documentary once' says that Hasbro let up on the controlling pressure once Lauren left. (Probably because they realized at that point that artistic people *do* quit if you push them too far, and didn't want to jeopardize the rest of the MLP staff that's laying the golden eggs.) 

 

You also completely miss the point 'American Girls' is a doll line from Hasbro's *main competitor* Mattel, and that there is a relatively serious issue there where Mattel is removing historical archetypes and minorities from a product line, and relating that to the other serious issue where Disney (also not Hasbro, if you note), is trying to sexualize a previously strong female character.

 

None of her tweets has anything to do with My Little Pony. You are telling me that Lauren, a women known for breaking through gender and age barriers with her writing and art, is going to be too fearful of a company *she no longer works for* to straight out tell us she doesn't like something? Especially when she has done that against companies far larger and more powerful than Hasbro? (She's dissed Disney for sake of St. Peter. You piss off Disney, that's a career limiting move in animation.)