Is Equestria Girls Faithful to Faust's Vision of MLP?

[Anadu Kune 668]

In this case several factors took place which made her quit.

 

 

These messages are from a guy who was editing the official Bronies documentary.

 

 

 

ADDED:

 

Lauren Faust tweeted:

"Even "American Girls" was once radically positive for girls before it was homogenized for money.

 

Note that the linked article was written in April and Lauren tweeted it on May 13th, the day when the trailer was released.

Yes and she tweeted it in reference to the Merida redesign debacle which she had been tweeting about a lot the previous day and on the thirteenth when it finally resolved-kinda. The only thing she tweeted which seems to be in reference to EG is this.

 

"Dont blame the content makers for the marketing department's decisions" 

This is a statement that is commenting on a fan reaction not the product itself.

[MadPointer 75]

 

 

(I had to remove the link, or I wasn't able to post? Odd, how did you post that link?)

I posted it as text.

 

 

 

You completely miss the point where that 'Guy who edited a documentary once' says that Hasbro let up on the controlling pressure once Lauren left. (Probably because they realized at that point that artistic people *do* quit if you push them too far, and didn't want to jeopardize the rest of the MLP staff that's laying the golden eggs.) 

We don't know how tightly Hasbro control the direction of show because Lauren is no longer involved and Tara Strong might not how story approval is challenging for writers at the moment.

 

 

 

You also completely miss the point 'American Girls' is a doll line from Hasbro's *main competitor* Mattel, and that there is a relatively serious issue there where Mattel is removing historical archetypes and minorities from a product line, and relating that to the other serious issue where Disney (also not Hasbro, if you note), is trying to sexualize a previously strong female character.

The timing just seems suspicious. Why would she post it at that time knowing that it would most likely be linked to the EqG trailer(a few hours later).

 

 

None of her tweets has anything to do with My Little Pony. You are telling me that Lauren, a women known for breaking through gender and age barriers with her writing and art, is going to be too fearful of a company *she no longer works for* to straight out tell us she doesn't like something? Especially when she has done that against companies far larger and more powerful than Hasbro? (She's dissed Disney for sake of St. Peter. You piss off Disney, that's a career limiting move in animation.)

Regardless of whenever these tweets are related to MLP:FIM, they show her opinions and values on the industry which are relevant to this thread.

[Shanks 10,811]

Probably not but whether Equestria Girls is consistent with her vision or not is irrelevant, if it succeeds even if it is not her vision than great but if not than it won't affect the show anyway.

[Scootalove 10,684]

I don't think it is faithful to Faust's vision but, they kept the personalities and well the determined looks from the characters as ponies. Since, Faust isn't really affiliated with the show anymore I don't think it will hurt her vision at all. I know Faust has contributed to the show and since the movie is based on the show, it won't affect the show's storyline when Season 4 comes out. Since, it is a movie and it won't be involved in the canon of the show.

[Fhaolan 4,468]

I posted it as text.

 

 

 

We don't know how tightly Hasbro control the direction of show because Lauren is no longer involved and Tara Strong might not how story approval is challenging for writers at the moment.

 

 

 

The timing just seems suspicious. Why would she post it at that time knowing that it would most likely be linked to the EqG trailer(a few hours later).

 

 

Regardless of whenever these tweets are related to MLP:FIM, they show her opinions and values on the industry which are relevant to this thread.

 

Weird. Some strange stuff going on in the background of this forum software sometimes.

 

Lauren and Tara are not the only sources of information on how Hasbro is influencing the show. About 90% of the show staff are now on social media, and have been interviewed by that same documentary team you were quoting before. According to those interviews, as stated by the person you quoted, Hasbro has backed off somewhat. Exactly how much they've backed off, I don't know. I personally doubt they're letting the writers/animators do whatever they want, but then I also doubt they're sitting in the room with the writers and animators forcing them to follow whatever whim comes to the corporate 'mind'.

 

And since Lauren is no longer involved in the show, I can't see why she would know the trailer was to be released hours after her tweet, or what the contents of the trailer (or show) was to be. She has repeatedly said that she is not paying attention to, or watching any MLP stuff since she left, and is not being consulted or informed on any developments within the franchise. I'm going to take her at her word until I find out differently. I'm not going to call Lauren Faust a liar.

 

Her opinion of the industry is very relevant. However, taking that general opinion, and making it specific by taking her words out of context and applying it to different parts of the industry is just... rude, really. It's one of the things I've always disliked about literary analysis. Her opinion is *hers* and if you have to conjecture about what she *really* meant and attempt to interpret it, rather than take her words at face value, you are wandering into deep water and need to be concerned that your own motives and agenda are not flavoring what you are reading (or writing).

 

In other words, your opinion is your opinion, and it's just as important as anyone else's opinion. You don't need to justify your opinion by using someone else's name. It's rude, insulting to the person who's name you're using, and devalues your own opinion where it's not necessary.

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

 

Already approaching 100 pictures on the R34 site- roughly half of what MLP had before FiM arrived. I'm not really surprised, as a lot of the FiM art was humanized in the first place. Once the movie hits, I'm expecting an explosion of new EqG art.

 

 

No one really gave a crap about MLP at first, they're basing something out of a show with a huge ass fanbase, of course the spin off will get more attention than what the original series achieved at first

 

 

I dont think it's sticking to her vision, i mean, Twilight looking for a crown because she's an alicorn princess, pretty much the sypnosis already goes against her vision of Twilight not being an Alicorn.

[Anadu Kune 668]

I dont think it's sticking to her vision, i mean, Twilight looking for a crown because she's an alicorn princess, pretty much the sypnosis already goes against her vision of Twilight not being an Alicorn.

 

Problem is we don't know why she is looking for the crown or the crown's significance. Lauren wanted to create a show for girls "that wasnt stupid". A show that showed there are multiple ways to be a girl through great characters. Will the movie stay true to that? We wont know until we have full context. 

 

the toy prototypes are freaking ugly though and go against all that is good, though the MLP FIM toys pretty much always have until recently. 

Edited May 28, 2013 by Anadu Kune

[MadPointer 75]

 

 

She has repeatedly said that she is not paying attention to, or watching any MLP stuff since she left, and is not being consulted or informed on any developments within the franchise.

She's reachable on DeviantArt and Twitter. Some people are still asking her about Season 3 and Season 4 as if she's still involved. I'm sure she knows all from bronies the new even though she'd rather not know them. If she didn't want unwanted associations, she would avoid posting it at that time. 

 

If you believe that her opinion can only be applied to other brands and MLP:FIM is different, you can try to make a case on why you think it's different and it still holds true to her ideals.

[Fhaolan 4,468]

She's reachable on DeviantArt and Twitter. Some people are still asking her about Season 3 and Season 4 as if she's still involved. I'm sure she knows all from bronies the new even though she'd rather not know them. If she didn't want unwanted associations, she would avoid posting it at that time. 

 

If you believe that her opinion can only be applied to other brands and MLP:FIM is different, you can try to make a case on why you think it's different and it still holds true to her ideals.

 

Her opinion can be applied to MLP:FiM, but only by her. If she deems not to apply her opinion to MLP:FiM, that is *her* choice, and I respect that choice. I'm not going to force her to do so the way you seem to insist on doing. I'm not going to pester her, or speak for her. And unless she's psychic, she would only be able to post her opinion after the trailer was released and she had a chance to see it, not hours *before* anyone except the DHX, Hub, and Hasbro staff should have known what the trailer actually was. And she would not have couched it in innuendo. The idea that she's sneaking around sending coded messages to her fans when she could just flat out say something is pretty silly, really. She's an adult woman, not a school child passing notes in class, afraid of the teacher catching her and sending her to detention.

 

Now, as for MLP holding true to her ideals... yes, it does, because she has flat out said that her ideals at the time she was making MLP really were as simple as 'make a show that respects the audience, and a wide range of people can tolerate.' To respect the audience, she created (or modified from G1, to be accurate) characters to display a variety of female archetypes living their lives the way *they* wanted to, each with their own goals and aspirations, and showed them growing, learning, and changing as needed without compromising who they are. Personally, I think she could have included one or two male leads for contrast and variety without damaging or dominating the scenario, but oh well, that was her decision and I'm sure she had reasons for it. In any case, I haven't seen MLP deviate from this model. They've had pacing problems, and some of the stories would have benefited from an additional five or ten minutes, or a bit of deviation from the TV-Y rating, but there are limits being imposed from being broadcast TV and those problems existed in Season 1 as well as the rest of the run.

 

Does EqG hold true to her ideals? I don't know yet. Looking at her body of work, she has produced stuff that was light and fluffy, just as often as the deep and meaningful. The character designs for Galaxy Girls are just as sexist and anti-feminist as the Equestria Girls ones are. Which is to say, not much. Until I actually see the movie, I can't pass judgment on whether it holds to the ideals or not. The trailer is simply not enough information, and parts of it look like it is deliberately being misleading so as not spoil some kind of surprise the same way the Canterlot Wedding episode was portrayed. There's recut trailers for the Shining that make it look like a family movie, so you can make a trailer say anything you want; plus they are usually produced by marketing departments, not the movie director.

 

I don't like the high school setting myself, because I've seen too much high school melodrama on TV, and having been a substitute teacher in high school once, I've seen far too much in real life to be at all interested in that. And I don't particularly like the character designs because I think they should have more variety in their shaping. But the DHX staff have spoken out saying that the trailer is being misinterpreted by the fandom, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. In another thread, I posted a possible, and overly complex, story line for EqG that involved this high school setting being a dark fairy-land that Sunset Shimmer is using to trick Twilight into trading places with her so Sunset could escape a meaningless eternal life. And the trailer we've seen could still be valid for this scenario, if they edited the scenes the 'right' way.

 

So I'll reserve my judgment on the overall quality of EqG until I see it. Which likely won't be long after it is released, if I feel like bothering at all.

 

But what I won't do is pretend that I speak for Lauren, or anyone who has ever worked on MLP, and say what their opinion *should* be.

[PonyRocker95 106]

OI!

 

Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I feel that after watching the trailer that it's meant highly for the female audience, and the character design kind of looked a bit off to me. It seems like it's going to be pretty bland, and it is without a doubt very cliche. "The young princess has to face her toughest challenge yet..... high school". I mean come on it looks really girly and tries to appeal to a teenage girls demographic. The characters all look like they are kind of blending together into girly girly stereotypes, but I'm going to go see it anyways.

 

~RD4

THANK YOU! I figured I wasn't the only one thinking it! It look's like someone from Hasbro read a fanfiction off the internet and decided to do a movie of the plot! -_-'

[Fhaolan 4,468]

Well, it looks like Lauren has recently ended her self-imposed exile from watching MLP stuff, according to a Q&A she had in /mlp/. It appears that she is doing this in response to people talking at her and for her, and she wanted to form her own opinion.

 

She specifically says that she is not unhappy with how the characters have developed since she left, but that she hasn't seen the most recent episodes yet so can't comment on them. She's still catching up. She has full confidence in the MLP staff and how they are handling MLP. She did mention that she did write a version of the Magical Mystery Cure story of her own, but it was intended as the series ender, not a season closer.

 

She was highly critical of the EqG prototype dolls, but did not comment on the trailer or EqG movie itself. This is interesting to me, because the prototype dolls look like the second set of concept art pictures that was floating around, and *not* like the character designs that ended up in the trailer that we've seen. The dolls are far more anthro, with animal ears and cutie-marks on the face. So Hasbro and DHX have a bit of a disconnect on the character designs. If the movie actually looks like the trailer, then Hasbro has in fact backed off the creative staff. If the movie looks like the dolls, then Hasbro has returned to it's tyrannical ways.

 

She also mentioned that when she approached Hasbro, she was trying to sell them on the Galaxy Girl *dolls*, using the animation as a selling point rather than the primary part of the pitch. And that Hasbro declined because they would of preferred to buy the IP outright from her, and she didn't want to relinquish that much control.

[MadPointer 75]

@@Fhaolan,

Can you post her exact posts instead of interpretation of what she said because it's not always clear what you're referring to. Also keep in mind that some anons were impersonating her without the proper tripcode(!5l/hHZnoEA).

[Fhaolan 4,468]

@@Fhaolan,

Can you post her exact posts instead of interpretation of what she said because it's not always clear what you're referring to. Also keep in mind that some anons were impersonating her without the proper tripcode(!5l/hHZnoEA).

 

Sure. I'll do better, and put a link into the thread and you can form your own conclusions. I'd pull out the individual posts, but 4chan crashes my computer for some reason with a long-running script. I don't normally do 4chan at all, so I haven't spent time trying to debug the issue.

 

http://boards.4chan.org/mlp/res/10902082#p10911290

 

I think I have the right thread there.

 

I was unaware of the tripcode thingy. Is there some way to filter this mess to just her actual posts? Trying to read it is an exercise in frustration. Given that, and the general 4chan sewer talk, it's not hard to understand why so many people refuse to go there.

[MadPointer 75]

I was unaware of the tripcode thingy. Is there some way to filter this mess to just her actual posts? Trying to read it is an exercise in frustration. Given that, and the general 4chan sewer talk, it's not hard to understand why so many people refuse to go there.

 

You can use the search function in your browser by pressing Ctrl+F and typing in "Lauren Faust (really) !5l/hHZnoEA".

 

Only the real Lauren can use the !5l/hHZnoEA tripcode. 

 

Also there're two threads:

http://boards.4chan.org/mlp/res/10913834#p10915041

http://boards.4chan.org/mlp/res/10902082#p10911290

 

EQD posted only confirmed posts there

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2013/05/lauren-faust-answers-bunch-of-questions.html

Edited May 28, 2013 by MadPointer

[Fhaolan 4,468]

So not much of what I read was actually Lauren. Thanks @@MadPointer, for telling me about the tags. The other thread didn't seem to have much of anything in it, though. Here's the bits I gleaned from both threads that were relevant to my points. The rest of her posts seemed to be around getting into animation business, general chit-chat, or just trying to sort out how 4chan works and verifying that it really was her posting.

 

On MLP:

 

Lauren:

The characters evolved a bit from the original bible descriptions--- but that happens on all shows. Writers, board artist, voice actors help define the characters further and you go with the flow. Some personalities might have been a bit more exaggeratted--- I wanted RD to have an irresponsible streak, and I wanted Rarity to have a more "don't touch my stuff" relationship with Sweetie Belle. More so than is in there, but I was not unhappy with where they ended up. I haven't seen the recent episodes, so I can't judge any changes made

 

On Galaxy Girls:

 

Lauren:

Galaxy Girls was designed to be a doll line. I actually never wanted it to be a show, but the folks who make toys want shows before the invest. Despite the surprising success of MLP, most companies still want the same old garbage for girls because that's what they think make money (and they don't want to spend much to make it). If I have to make it a show, I'm not going to make it until I can make it good--- so it may not get made.

 

Lauren:

Thematically, I was planning on making it a lot like MLP--- slice of life + fun adventure--- just in a fantasy, story-book version of space. But I put a lot of those ideas and themes and characterizations in MLP. If I move forward with it at this point, I would like to completely redesign the characters. I kind of hate the way they look right now. I drew that stuff almost 10 years ago.

 

Lauren:

No large company wants something they can't own and control completely.

 

---

 

I've bolded the bits that I find interesting. So she didn't directly comment on EqG at all, making this all off-topic now. Oh well.

[MadPointer 75]

I think there's a reason why Lauren visited /mlp/ out of all places. Lauren Faust is the only person who is worshiped by /mlp/ like no one else and it appears that she was luring there before.

 

Anon: Why did you choose to come here (4chan)? It's not like we have the best "fame" in the fandom. I'm just curious...
Lauren:  I've said it before, but I've seen some of the most thoughtful critiques here. I need to dig through some awful stuff to find it, but people are smart here sometimes.

 

I wonder if any of you visit /mlp/.

 

I tend to spend a lot of time on /mlp/ especially after Twilicorn. /mlp/ hates Canterlot Wedding, Season 3, Twilicorn and EqG. It's not just blind hate. There were many constructive and insightful discussions which rarely happen on forums. People on forums tend to be more restrained and care about their reputation so much that they're afraid to voice their arguments which go against the majority of members.

[Tollhouse 79]

Problem is we don't know why she is looking for the crown or the crown's significance. Lauren wanted to create a show for girls "that wasnt stupid". A show that showed there are multiple ways to be a girl through great characters. Will the movie stay true to that? We wont know until we have full context.

I agree with you there but I think despite not even knowing the full story, the character designs alone send a message to the little girls that differs then what My Little Pony FiM teaches.   I don't think the shows match because of that. 

 

I don't even need to to reference Faust's vision for MLP to even support my argument.   You ponies who mentioned that her vision isn't relevant anymore are right.  It's true.  However I strongly think the writers have done a fantastic job keeping Lauren's MLP like what it was when she was still involved.  So what if they changed around character personalities/development.  It still feels like the same show it always was and it still teaches the lessons in friendship with exciting adventures and what not. 

 

So basically it's no longer a question of if EqG is faithful to Lauren's vision but just what MLP in general stands for.  I do believe Lauren's vision is still alive in MLP and shouldn't be ignored just because she isn't involved with the show.  She wrote the bible of the show after all. 

[Carbon Maestro 1,003]

Ok I posted something similar to this in another topic but I thought it should probably have a topic of its own. 

 

Let's forget about whatever story Equestria Girls has in store for its audience.   I'm goona talk strictly about the characters of Equestria Girls.  Are they faithful to Lauren Faust's characters?  The ones she designed herself.  Where they given the same kind of artistic integrity as their pony counterparts.  I sure as hey don't.  Here's why. 

 

Lauren Faust has made it clear in interviews that she wanted to prove to everypony that a little girls' show can be enjoyed by ponies of all ages.  When she created My Little Pony Friendship is Magic, she wanted to create a show where the characters weren't all about tea parties, checking out boys, and just standing around just to look pretty.  She didn't want to make a show to teach girls that they had to be that way.  That's why in MLP you have female characters who are really girly, sort of girly, and tomboyish but are all still great friends.  It teaches girls that they can be themselves and that they don't have to conform to any certain stereotype.  Then you have the exciting adventures, and the clever humor to go along with the characters too.  That's why we love the show. 

 

Now, here is my criticism for Equestria Girls.   The character designs are horrid.  I think this is the opposite of what Lauren's intentions for MLP were.  The mane 6 ponies have been reduced to 6 pretty faces, each with small midsections, and elongated legs.  They all wear their hair long and they have similar clothing too.  Notice they all wear short skirts with boots/legwarmers.  This just kills a big chunk of their uniqueness, as I'm sure 6 friends with all different personalities wouldn't all choose similar clothes like that.   Now pretty much the only way the human mane 6 can express themselves as individuals is through their actions and personality as their bodies and clothes are basically the same shape and look. The human character bodies are so idealized and sexualized that is pretty much takes away that magic MLP FIM has and the vision that Faust intended.

 

Yeah we all know Hasbro is out there for the money but it still doesn't change the fact that this MLP spinoff was created with the wrong artistic integrity.  I wonder what Lauren thinks of to this day what has happen to her characters as they have become pretty much the very thing she wanted to avoid when making the show from the beginning.

 

What do you ponies think?   This is all my opinion.   The movie can still be good as I'm sure the writing will be strong as the tv series.  I just feel that the heart of the characters design falls short in this one.  That's all.  

 

Skinny, anorexic, and stereotypical features for the Equestria Girls does in fact disturb me in the direction of this movie. However, since we don't know the plot of the story, I can't say for certain whether it's a show meant for a specific target demographic (aka little girls) as opposed to the wider appeal of the main show. However, seeing the physical features and characteristics makes this already worrisome.