Are the six traits(laughter, honesty etc) REALLY elements of 'harmony?'

[Never2muchpinkie 211]

Given the style of the show it's not surprising it wasn't used, but Discord had another option for corrupting the mane 6.  The elements of harmony do have their opposing numbers, but the element traits also do have a darker side, even if the person doesn't intend for it be seen as bad.

 

For example, laughter.  Pinkie embodies the bright side of laughter. She laughs with others.  Discord, Diamond Tiara, and Silver Spoon embody the evil side of laughter, Laughing at others expense.

 

Kindness and generosity aren't that far apart from each other, and even if the person is doing it for the good of others, sometimes the recipient doesn't see it as such. For example, a handicapped person trying to things for themselves, but their caretaker is too worried about their safety and tries to do everything for them.

 

Loyalty is a good trait, assuming what you're loyal to is something virtuous. But people can be loyal to gangs/mobs, sometimes because they see it as cool, and sometimes because they'll be killed if they try to leave.

 

Magic=Friendship, and sometimes friends take advantage of you, manipulate you, and act sweet while conning you. In other words, a false friend. You may think they're your friend, but to them you're just a plaything for their amusement and what they can get out of you.

 

Honesty is a tricky one. As discord says, sometimes a lie is easier to take. Being honest is an admirable trait, but at times it can be used to harm others unnecessarily, especially if you're blunt.

 

While there's no doubt that all those aspects are good to have, we can't ignore their darker sides.

[~StatesTheOblivious~ 1,795]

I find the words Celestia used in "Magical Mystery Cure" to describe the best traits of Twilight's friends way more fitting than the actual ones.

 

Charity, compassion, devotion, integrity, optimism.

 

Still, "leadership of a true princess" is standing out, but also fits in if we consider the way Celestia and Luna are as princesses.

 

Sure, one would never think that easily of the negative sides of the names of the Elements of Harmony when they think about the show.

 

Harmony is a very subjective thing anyways. It always depends on someone's perspective. But those five words are actually pretty close to what one might consider as the elements of a harmony, or traits that people should have in a harmonic society. I think they're maybe a bit too specific to be something Faust considered to be the names of the elements when she created the concept to be appealing to a rather young audience

Edited August 31, 2013 by Zachary H. Comstock

[Limey 524]

I never really thought of it like that, but now you mention it you're completely right. Kudos to you.

 

The phrase 'Too much of a good thing' is valid with all the elements. You can be TOO kind to someone to the extent you're hurting them. You can be blinded by loyalty. You can be corrupted by power/magic. This I feel could be implemented into the show, as it doesn't seem too dark or edgy, and could actually be a pretty good moral for kids rather than just having anti-elements.

 

However, you can also twist the meanings of the elements to make them darker. For example, Generosity could be interpreted as simply giving things to people, good (gifts or help) or bad (pain and suffering). Laughter could be taking delight in pain, rather than happiness. This I feel could probably not be implemented into the show. For a kids show, I think this would cross the line.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Spess

[Scootalove 10,692]

The words that Celestia said in Magical Mystery Cure probably described the six descriptions that the Elements stand for. It is a good moral that the Elements can put across for kids that you should never go against for what you stand for. But they could also not be the Elements if they don't live up to what their purpose is.

[Declen 118]

 

 

Charity, compassion, devotion, integrity, optimism. Still, "leadership of a true princess" is standing out, but also fits in if we consider the way Celestia and Luna are as princesses. Sure, one would never think that easily of the negative sides of these traits when they think about the show.

Now, when I think about it...

Charity - squandering(?)

Compassion - overprotection(?)

Devotion - obscession

Integrity - stubborness

Optimism - recklessness

[~StatesTheOblivious~ 1,795]

Now, when I think about it...

Charity - squandering(?)

Compassion - overprotection(?)

Devotion - obscession

Integrity - stubborness

Optimism - recklessness

 

 

Oops, I just realized, I wasn't that clear... I was actually referring to the "original" traits, the names of the Elements of Harmony, not those mentioned in MMC that I mentioned. Let me edit that.

 

And I some of your examples are not that accurate. Optimsm - Recklessness? Wouldn't the negative counterpart of recklessness be thoughtfullness?

[Declen 118]

 

 

Wouldn't the negative counterpart of recklessness be thoughtfullness?

Recklessness and thoughtfullness? Aren't they antonyms (opposites)? I thought more of downsides of elements, as that was OP's suggestion, if I've got it right.

[~StatesTheOblivious~ 1,795]

Recklessness and thoughtfullness? Aren't they antonyms (opposites)? I thought more of downsides of elements, as that was OP's suggestion, if I've got it right.

 

*facepalm* Sorry, you're right.

 

But still... Recklessness a downside of optimism... Some kind of ignorance would fit better here I think. Does being reckless not usually mean that you don't care about the consequences of your actions and not that... Oh, might work. If you're so optimistic that you stop to see the possibility of a negative outcome and therefore go on until you're reckless. Still a bit complicated, but not necessarily wrong.

[Winona the Dog 1,984]

Well there's a flip side to every coin. The Elements of Harmony are of course, no exception. The Mane 6 represent the lighter side of those traits even though there's a bad side to them.

[Forlong 1,726]

Laughter is the most basic of verbal communication.  It is the only vocal response that is the same in all languages.  It is the true international language, thus complete in harmony.

 

Kindness and Generosity are not dependent on how others perceive you, thus your statement on the matter is irrelevant.

 

Loyalty is the following of authority and inspiring others to do the same.  This fosters order, which is harmony.

 

Lies cause confusion, which brings about chaos.  Thus honesty is harmonious.

 

I believe Griffin the Brush Off and "A True True Friend" already covered your issues with friendship being magic.

 

Their choices of elements were actually very well thought out.