Chaos: is it Really Evil?

[BalanceBrony 259]

*HEAVY PHILOSOPHY DISCLAIMER, IF UNINTERESTED IN PHILOSOPHY, DON'T WASTE TIME READING*

 

~Introduction~

 

 

So, I would like to bring up a discussion which always interests me. I first had this talk on the RuneScape forums, in philosophical debates about the gods. But it is one that very much applies to Equestria. Is Chaos actually inherently evil? The common argument brought up is that well, in the Equestrian paradigm, yes, Chaos is evil. But I would say that such a view actually is a direct contradiction to the other Equestrian paradigm that Harmony is the thing which society should strive for.

 

Harmony is a subject which is very dear to me, and one that I have spent several years mulling over. I have had countless debates, read numerous books, and written several papers on the subject, not to mention a book which I am working on. As such, I have had much evolution in my ideas. I have made plenty of progress in my thoughts since I first started pondering Balance (a subject related to Harmony) back in the 9th grade, 5 years ago, on the RuneScape forums. And one thing which I have established many times over is the importance of opposites coexisting for Balance to occur, and for Harmony to exist.

 

Existence has many parts. There are Yin, Yang, and Neutral aspects which make up everything. The Universe is a web of these various aspects, and their interactions. There are also different types of interactions which occur. The most notable interactions are called dualities, which are interactions between a Yin aspect, and its complementary Yang aspect. Their are other kinds, but interactions involving neutral forces are not an issue, as they do not threaten Harmony, or Balance.

 

For our discussion here, we are focusing on the two dualities which are most prominent in the Equestrian paradigm. These dualities are Order/Chaos and Harmony/Discord. The Good/Evil duality in Equestria is equivalent to those two relationships, but we are going to examine if that should be the case.

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~Order/Chaos~

 

Now, if we examine the Order/Chaos relationship, Order is Good and Chaos is Bad in Equestria. However, I would posit this: exactly why is Chaos a Bad? Chaos, while it does create some level of misery, is still a necessary part of life. If there was only pure Order, society would have to oppress anypony who deviates, as in the case of Discord (the entity), the Changelings, and Nightmare Moon. Oppression can lead to civil unrest, and leads to injustice.

 

Mind, in Equestria deviants aren't common, so unrest isn't a big problem. But Injustice does occur. Was it right to banish the Changelings for their nature? Why was no attempt made to serve both ponies and Changelings? Was it Just to force Discord to reform? Couldn't he just be given another outlet for his Chaos?

 

Attempts could have been made to be Just, but the pure Order which Equestria supports resulted in tyrant-like actions on the part of the Equestrians. Then the other factor of Order which is negative is that pure rigidity of society makes it fragile, and less capable of handling conflict. Your society might not change, and internally that could work fine. But if an external force works against your society, the lack of variety and innovation could backfire.

 

If we examine history, we know that the greatest advances all came from times of conflict, or a problem which needed solving. A society lacking conflict internally will become complacent. "Why should we advance when things are working fine?" is a thought commonly held by an overly ordered and stable society, Then something new comes along and exceeds its level of innovation, and overtakes it. So Chaos is not only not Evil, but it can be Good at times too.

 

~No Chaos? An Affront to Harmony~

In the Introduction, I mentioned that the Equestrian anti-Chaos sentiment was actually contradictory to its paradigm of Harmony. How is this so? Well, simply put, Harmony is the state of existence in which all things love together in multiplicity, tolerating and respecting all different paradigms without qualms. As soon as the Equestrians decided that Chaos should be oppressed, they contradicted Harmony. Simply having the attitude that an aspect of existence should be tossed out the door means that Harmony is not the end goal, as Harmony involves tolerating views, not eliminating them. Attempts should have been made at reason and compromise. Oppression is inherently an unbalanced action, and Harmony cannot be achieved be acting against Harmony.

 

Then there is also Balance to be considered as well. Balance is a notion which is related to Harmony. Balance is an overall equillibrium between opposite forces. Existence changes, so opposite forces won't stay equal forever. But in order for Harmony to exist, Balance must be strived for. Opposite forces cannot be allowed to grow to strong or too weak.

 

If we are to take this Order/Chaos duality as an example, we know that too much Order and too little Chaos are both bad things. The inverse is also true, as seen if we examine Discord's reign.Balance means that we should weaken the strong or strengthen the weak forces in a duality, to prevent the scales from going too much in either direction. These Imbalances would help create Discord- a state of existence which has excessive suffering for one or more parties, where somepony or another is not happy.

 

So, in conclusion, I would argue that Equestria has it all wrong. In oppressing Chaos, the Equestrians are causing Imbalance. On top of that, the blind intolerance of anypony who seems to threaten the status quo means that the Equestrians are acting in an inherently Discordant and unharmonious way.

 

I know this was quite a waffle, and I appreciate anypony who took the time to read. But I really wanted to share my ideas, and I would love to hear your own. What do you think everypony? I look forward to reading your responses!

[Ianpiersonjdavis 512]

Most media would leave us to believe as such.

 

However, chaos is technically ANYTHING which deviates from the status quo-both GOOD and BAD, hence the lyrics from the Discord song; 'I'm all for changing status quo-but, not in letting go.'

 

In the MLP Monopoly Board game Discord also represents Chance cards which can help or hinder the player who draws them.

 

Pinkie Pie's randomness in a sense, is actually a form of chaos as it makes no logical sense.

[Silver fox 117 49]

I feel the same way. Equestria is actually kind of being jerks just banishing the Changelings and Discord without an attempt at peace. Kind of seams disharmonious if you ask me.

 

Completely of topic, but this is a random tid bit of information. The universe our universe is actually getting more chaotic as time goes on. You see energy in every chemical reaction is lost due to the form of heat, and this is a gross simplification of it, but when a chemical reaction occurs you build up entropy. Entropy is like the unit of measurement for chaos of the universe.

 

So basically the more chemical reactions occur the more chaos is in our universe. This means that there will never be a true balance, but chaos would eventually completely overtake harmony in the universe. In a way its a good thing ponies banish chaos and things like that. 

 

The are helping keep some balance to the universe. Even though them using energy at all brings more chaos. Hmm I think Discord got Celestia beat. 

 

Woah this was like rambling 10.0

[The Prime Reaper 180]

I am a philosopher just like you, i am a fan of Descrates, Socrates and Confucius. When talking about chaos literally and physically is just a concept of our mind, our mind tricks us into believing in the cycle of good vs evil. A justification for survival and justice in our selfish concept.

Many scientists are athiests and believing in the universe was created by Big Bang and chaos is just a term that doesn't exsists. About Big Bang, i believed they are wrong! You can't create something is out of nothing!

When you see a clock, you realized that it was created by a creator, locksmith! So the universe does. it must always created by a fully omnipotent creator called God, i am not being religious here but being a deist as the common belief of founding fathers. Through saying that the universe is created by a CREATOR, order has always exsisted before as the creation of the universe took place. Order is a powerful thing that keeping the universe together as the wish of the Creator.

THere is no way! Chaos exsists before, nothingness doesn't breed anything even chaos. Creator never creates chaos when he creating the world but chaos is just something that going wrong out of his wishes.

 

As i stating that order is the indestructible part of the universe, the natural laws which many scientists proved to exsists from the law of gravity to the law of energy as well about the exsistence of law of morality. We human just only uncovered 0.0000000000000001 % of these written laws by the Creator. There are nearly infinite amount of laws that didn't study yet! Awaiting us to know and learn how to live in the universe. Harmony is just the perfect state of balance in what Order so perfectly maintained; all lives flourishing in blossoms. Harmony is just one piece of the Order, the most powerful chains of the universe.

 

Then one day, the Creator decided to test his creation called "randomness"! The creation in which would allow the universe to run by itself and he can only stand as the watcher but not a runner.Thing went good in the beginning but going badly afterward in which randomness becomes out of order. It started to run out of the "ferris wheel of laws" in which thrashing out to create CHAOS!

As all his creations starting to going horrifically wrong but luckily he restrained chaos by pouring the laws upon chaos. Chaos is now pretty much restrained but its influence doesn't as it is still mimically harming the universe.

 

Parallel to the fictional world of Equestria, Discord is just one piece of the Chaos serving as its pet of the unbalance. Discord is merely a jutaxposition of Chaos; weaker than the real chaos. Chaos is naturally evil because evil defined correctly as the negative effects trying to destroy the creations or disrupting the balance of harmony. Many of our humans think chaos is good and naturally but it doesn't! Chaos has been exsisting in our mind for too long, as one of nature dominates over. THe nature of rebellion in which strongly desiring for freedom no matter what. Because every human being desires freedom selfishly which in process creating larger chaos and catastrophic evils which dissapointing Lord God/Creator.

 

Equestrian ponies didn't break the pattern of the universe but it helps to defeat a jutaxposition of chaos, Discord which helping the universe to get closer to the true balance that it should have been before. Not the balance of 50% of good vs 50% evil but the balance of 100% good!

 

I hope this longwided philosophical speech helps to clear up what chaos is truly meaning.

Good day!

[BalanceBrony 259]

I would argue that at the beginning, God set off the Big Bang, and opposites just happened. The argument that only good things come from God is one that I don't find valid because I don't believe in an objective Good and Evil. Existence can only be seen in absences and presences. Dark is the absence of light, sadness is the absence of joy, fear is the absence  of courage, and so on. There are no inherently negative things, and if any aspect of a duality were nonexistent, the whole duality would vanish. You can't have good without evil, nor cruelty without kindness. You can't understand a thing unless you have its opposite to compare it to. At least, this is what the philosophy of Harmony and Balance holds to. Would you understand how wondrous peace is if you had not war to avoid? Would you know the beauty of love if you never saw hatred? All things must exist for things to be as beautiful as they are.

 

But even if Chaos were evil, which I don't believe it is, a realistic perspective would hold that, if there is to be peace and Harmony, Order and Chaos must reconcile with each other, as neither can be fully eliminated. To prevent an endless cycle of conflict, Balance must be maintained, and all things must coexist peacefully.

 

And again, Chaos is not inherently evil. It just exists, as everything else. And since it exists, we must learn to reconcile with it. Going about trying to eliminate things will not work, and as argued above, Chaos is beneficial at times, and Order detrimental. The only way is too carefully apply Order or Chaos, depending on which is needed more at a given time.

 

 

I feel the same way. Equestria is actually kind of being jerks just banishing the Changelings and Discord without an attempt at peace. Kind of seams disharmonious if you ask me.

 

Completely of topic, but this is a random tid bit of information. The universe our universe is actually getting more chaotic as time goes on. You see energy in every chemical reaction is lost due to the form of heat, and this is a gross simplification of it, but when a chemical reaction occurs you build up entropy. Entropy is like the unit of measurement for chaos of the universe.

 

So basically the more chemical reactions occur the more chaos is in our universe. This means that there will never be a true balance, but chaos would eventually completely overtake harmony in the universe. In a way its a good thing ponies banish chaos and things like that. 

 

The are helping keep some balance to the universe. Even though them using energy at all brings more chaos. Hmm I think Discord got Celestia beat. 

 

Woah this was like rambling 10.0

Yes, but no matter how chaotic things get, the laws of physics still apply, maintaining order of a sort.

[The Prime Reaper 180]

 

 

And again, Chaos is not inherently evil. It just exists, as everything else. And since it exists, we must learn to reconcile with it. Going about trying to eliminate things will not work, and as argued above, Chaos is beneficial at times, and Order detrimental. The only way is too carefully apply Order or Chaos, depending on which is needed more at a given time.

 

I respected your perspective! But when talking about God, he don't randomly make universes.

As a famous quote of Einstein saying : "God don't roll dices when creating the universe."

God created everything with full of purposes and righteous ordered. When everything is created with purposes, there is no chaos.

Chaos is simply the disorganization and randomness of things without consciously creating. Chaos goes without direction, it disrupts anything Order keeps together in the beginning. Our minds times by times adapted to it as our bodies become pain tolerance as living through the chaotic painful world as the constant war between good vs evil.

Our minds adapted to make us think that Chaos is good as our minds had been given too much power of free thinking by God. When we can able to freely think and design our fate, the concept of freedom was born. We become more rebellious toward order as hating chaos. We have the power to reshape our fate in which making to become more rebellious toward the natural order, we constantly having wars to defy the balance and always desired to play God (clone, human engineering and powerful machines).

You, my friend is also was created by Order and born in chaos like me. We embraced the concept of chaos for too long as our minds becoming rebellious toward order as our bodies disgusted toward chaos. God testing us to see if our minds will truly in the end choosing to defy chaos or order; we have been given the ability to reshape our fate and the day we choose to believe in order it would be the day the world in peace. When all minds connected to order and harmony, chaos shall perish.

 

All minds are what really matter for outcome of the war between good and evil. I am not being religious here!

[BalanceBrony 259]

I respected your perspective! But when talking about God, he don't randomly make universes.

As a famous quote of Einstein saying : "God don't roll dices when creating the universe."

God created everything with full of purposes and righteous ordered. When everything is created with purposes, there is no chaos.

Chaos is simply the disorganization and randomness of things without consciously creating. Chaos goes without direction, it disrupts anything Order keeps together in the beginning. Our minds times by times adapted to it as our bodies become pain tolerance as living through the chaotic painful world as the constant war between good vs evil.

Our minds adapted to make us think that Chaos is good as our minds had been given too much power of free thinking by God. When we can able to freely think and design our fate, the concept of freedom was born. We become more rebellious toward order as hating chaos. We have the power to reshape our fate in which making to become more rebellious toward the natural order, we constantly having wars to defy the balance and always desired to play God (clone, human engineering and powerful machines).

You, my friend is also was created by Order and born in chaos like me. We embraced the concept of chaos for too long as our minds becoming rebellious toward order as our bodies disgusted toward chaos. God testing us to see if our minds will truly in the end choosing to defy chaos or order; we have been given the ability to reshape our fate and the day we choose to believe in order it would be the day the world in peace. When all minds connected to order and harmony, chaos shall perish.

 

All minds are what really matter for outcome of the war between good and evil. I am not being religious here!

I am a very open-minded person, and I respect others views. But I also need arguments grounded on reasoning other than religious beliefs. While I fully believe in God, I gave Him much thought before I secured Him in my beliefs. As such, I need to hear your precise reasoning as to why Order is inherently good and Chaos is inherently evil. I see good and bad things in both.

 

Further, I would want to know your definition of what "good" and "evil" are. Because these concepts are strictly subjective. There is no inherent definition of Good and Evil. You could say good consists of all things which come from God, but then Chaos would be Good, as well as everything else in existence, which is a valid view. But then it undermines the argument that Chaos is Evil, as that was created by God too.

 

I do not see how Harmony and pure Order are associated, nor how Chaos cannot exist with Harmony. In fact, as argued above, the notion of eliminating anything is inherently contradictory to what Harmony is. Harmony, by definition, means the peaceful coexistance of everything, including Chaos and Order.

 

The war between Good and Evil... I still do not understand what these concepts are, or if they even exist objectively.

 

I know. I am sure you gave careful thought to all of this. I am just asking for your reasoning, so I can better understand, and respond appropriately to your points.

[FNGRpony 658]

PInkie pies randomness is chaos LOL.

 

I don't feel chaos is evil.  It's chaos.  Because chaos can bring good thing.

chaos can inspire.  Chaos can create.

 

Now if you tell me chaos with out regret is evil?

just rampaging out all willy nilly with out regard for what could happen?

Why yes ^^, yes it is.

And pinkie does that that from time to time.

bet you thought i was gonna say discord.

Edited October 24, 2013 by FNGRpony

[BalanceBrony 259]

PInkie pies randomness is chaos LOL.

 

I don't feel chaos is evil.  It's chaos.  Because chaos can bring good thing.

chaos can inspire.  Chaos can create.

 

Now if you tell me chaos with out regret is evil?

just rampaging out all willy nilly with out regard for what could happen?

 

Why yes ^^, yes it is.

And pinkie does that that from time to time.

bet you thought i was gonna say discord.

Precisely. Chaos can be good, but it needs to be kept in check, because too much chaos is bad.

 

But Pinkie Pie doesn't count. Gods do what they want, regardless of moral consequence. Best to leave her alone.

[BrilliantVenture 334]

the way I see it, the problem with Discord was "balance and respect"...true, chaos is a necessary part of life...but is it needed at all times through every part of the day until it becomes almost as oppressive as total order? of course not! And that's exactly what discord was doing...and by doing so, he lacked respect for everypony else...for their wishes, for their lifestyles...it was a forceful change unto everypony...and that's where I believe the line must be drawn...why? This is how I see it...say take someone who smokes...I respect the smoker that smokes outside, or will turn the other way, so he/she doesn't cause someone else to forcefully partake in their activity. (Second hand smoke) someone who doesn't care though, shows that they don't respect you enough to think of your comfort/health, or at least not do it around you. I'm fine for the most part if someone wants to do something that is possibly damaging to themselves...I wish they wouldn't...but it's their life...who am I to judge? But when others are being forced to be put at risk because of someone's beliefs or perspectives, that's where things should be made right...

 

To me, I believe the whole "Love and Tolerate" thing has a very important disclaimer...and that would be

 

"Always love...but tolerate as long as they aren't hurting anyone else..."

[Arcangel 9]

I know this was quite a waffle, and I appreciate anypony who took the time to read. But I really wanted to share my ideas, and I would love to hear your own. What do you think everypony? I look forward to reading your responses!

 

First of all, Equestria is a society that functions much better than any I know of, except for Andorra; they're all happy there. Speaking of Andorra, let's look at it, for comparison to a fictional world. Andorra (one of the happiest places on earth) shares a lot in common with the fictitious land of equines: relatively low population, great natural beauty. (On a side note, Andorra also has high life expectancy) Andorra also hasn't been at war for 700 years. Let's use that example to represent harmony. Andorra/Equestria hasn't been at war (which is an example of bad chaos) for nearly a millennium (not counting the season finales: those weren't wars), and, possibly as a result, has caused great happiness (harmony) among its citizens. Harmony does not always mean complete order: because complete order is tyranny; harmony means something along the lines of peace.

 

As for the Equestrians' hostility towards other races, it is just because they were too hostile to be reasoned with. For the Changelings we do not have enough information to make a judgement call, as they could have eaten other things as well. For all we know, they could have just liked love better than food. Also, they were attempting a hostile takeover, not an eating spree.

 

You said that the Equestrians were contradicting themselves by defeating Discord and others, but no rule can be fair if followed all the time. The U.S. Declaration of Independence states that all men have the right to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." It then goes on to contradict itself, saying that if someone took away someone else's life, liberty, etc., they could get theirs taken away. This is obviously good, because otherwise there could be no law. The same goes for Equestria and the defeat of several villains. They can be punished if they punish others too much.

 

As for oppressing chaos: Equestria only is against evil chaos. It's like those alignment tables; there's chaotic good, chaotic evil, good harmony, and bad harmony (although I prefer to call it oppression, as harmony is supposed to be intrinsically good by definition.) Discord represented evil chaos, which hurts other people. That's something that Equestria oppresses because it needs to be oppressed: what if we didn't oppress murder? Good chaos, like Pinkie Pie's, is not bad, and I think that we all need a little bit o' chaos in our lives.

 

Furthermore, bad chaos (Discord) consists of crimes and sins and shouldn't be tolerated, while good chaos (P.P.) is needed and should be tolerated. Bad chaos is doing evil; good chaos is doing unorganized or spontaneous things. They're completely different things, if you look closely.

 

Discord's reign was only bad chaos under the guise of good chaos. The only difference was that he was having fun while making everypony miserable. Discord wasn't actually all that different from all the other villains, unless you're only looking superficially.

 

 

So no, I don't think Equestria has it wrong.

Chaos leads to fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

 

thank you so much if you read this waffle of a post (more like a pancake).

Edited October 24, 2013 by Arcangel

[The Prime Reaper 180]

I am a very open-minded person, and I respect others views. But I also need arguments grounded on reasoning other than religious beliefs. While I fully believe in God, I gave Him much thought before I secured Him in my beliefs. As such, I need to hear your precise reasoning as to why Order is inherently good and Chaos is inherently evil. I see good and bad things in both.

 

Further, I would want to know your definition of what "good" and "evil" are. Because these concepts are strictly subjective. There is no inherent definition of Good and Evil. You could say good consists of all things which come from God, but then Chaos would be Good, as well as everything else in existence, which is a valid view. But then it undermines the argument that Chaos is Evil, as that was created by God too.

 

I do not see how Harmony and pure Order are associated, nor how Chaos cannot exist with Harmony. In fact, as argued above, the notion of eliminating anything is inherently contradictory to what Harmony is. Harmony, by definition, means the peaceful coexistance of everything, including Chaos and Order.

 

The war between Good and Evil... I still do not understand what these concepts are, or if they even exist objectively.

 

I know. I am sure you gave careful thought to all of this. I am just asking for your reasoning, so I can better understand, and respond appropriately to your points.

Since you put at that way, i would conclude that.

Chaos is just the concept of our minds thinking about the universe, we created chaos !

Chaos is a defiance of harmony and order. Everytime, I observe myself and all human beings i can only see the rebellious nature in our blood with high pain tolerance in our mind. We waging war with each other to prove to each other our ideas in which freedom has been given by God. We constantly fearing the good things that we thinking is unknowingly evil, it is fear and ignorance. We are so arrogant to even dare to play God by judging each other, scientific natural-defiant revolution, and call ourselves gods.

Chaos is just merely a fragment of our thought, a justification of our freedom to everything that happens today.

Good vs Evil is just a battle which God placed to toy our minds to remind us that Order is still in power so don't turn to bad side. It has effectively created religions in which serving to suppress our freedom to whirlwind as the consequence of destroying all other organic lives on Earth and the universe.

Back to the topic about Harmony, I have defined correctly as the peaceful stabilization in the fully satisfication of all life forms. Harmony is Order because the only aspect can against Chaos is always be Order. The Mane 6 wields the elements of Harmony because Order allows it to happen as bringing the peaceful stabilization to universe. The balance is the perfect homeostasis where all parts of the universe perfectly bonded to each other with no scissor cutting them ( chaos)

 

In conclusive, chaos and the eternal battle of good vs evil existing in our mind as the greatest inventions of all times rather than fire. Order continues to balance the world as it growing concern of our freedom going out of control to spread chaos in the universe for our minds are't perfect as God to create the worlds, Randomness is just still but the one piece of the law, freedom we strongly protecting today is chaos itself.

[BalanceBrony 259]

As for oppressing chaos: Equestria only is against evil chaos. It's like those alignment tables; there's chaotic good, chaotic evil, good harmony, and bad harmony (although I prefer to call it oppression, as harmony is supposed to be intrinsically good by definition.) Discord represented evil chaos, which hurts other people. That's something that Equestria oppresses because it needs to be oppressed: what if we didn't oppress murder? Good chaos, like Pinkie Pie's , is not bad, and I think that we all need a little bit o' chaos in our lives.

 

Furthermore, bad chaos (Discord) consists of crimes and sins and shouldn't be tolerated, while good chaos (P.P) is needed and should be tolerated. Good chaos is doing evil; good chaos is doing unorganized or spontaneous things. They're completely different things, if you look closely.

 

Discord's reign was only bad chaos under the guise of good chaos. The only difference was that he was having fun while making everypony miserable. Discord wasn't actually all that different from all the other villains, unless you're only looking superficially.

 

 

So no, I don't think Equestria has it wrong.

Chaos leads to fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

 

thank you so much if you read this waffle of a post (more like a pancake).

I suppose it was bad chaos. Then my thought is going to be based now on whether Discord will still be allowed to be chaotic, or if he will be forced to conform to Order. I'd like to see whether he is forced to conform, or if he is just forced to be respectful of others.

 

Since you put at that way, i would conclude that.

Chaos is just the concept of our minds thinking about the universe, we created chaos !

Chaos is a defiance of harmony and order. Everytime, I observe myself and all human beings i can only see the rebellious nature in our blood with high pain tolerance in our mind. We waging war with each other to prove to each other our ideas in which freedom has been given by God. We constantly fearing the good things that we thinking is unknowingly evil, it is fear and ignorance. We are so arrogant to even dare to play God by judging each other, scientific natural-defiant revolution, and call ourselves gods.

Chaos is just merely a fragment of our thought, a justification of our freedom to everything that happens today.

Good vs Evil is just a battle which God placed to toy our minds to remind us that Order is still in power so don't turn to bad side. It has effectively created religions in which serving to suppress our freedom to whirlwind as the consequence of destroying all other organic lives on Earth and the universe.

Back to the topic about Harmony, I have defined correctly as the peaceful stabilization in the fully satisfication of all life forms. Harmony is Order because the only aspect can against Chaos is always be Order. The Mane 6 wields the elements of Harmony because Order allows it to happen as bringing the peaceful stabilization to universe. The balance is the perfect homeostasis where all parts of the universe perfectly bonded to each other with no scissor cutting them ( chaos)

 

In conclusive, chaos and the eternal battle of good vs evil existing in our mind as the greatest inventions of all times rather than fire. Order continues to balance the world as it growing concern of our freedom going out of control to spread chaos in the universe for our minds are't perfect as God to create the worlds, Randomness is just still but the one piece of the law, freedom we strongly protecting today is chaos itself.

Everything you say just about lines up logically. The one issue I have remaining is your continued stance that chaos is purely evil... or perhaps you don't think Chaos is pure evil, and there is simply a miscommunication here? Because you equate Chaos to Freedom, which is good, if checked by Order. Order is good, because Chaos cannot rule. But at the same time, Chaos should not be eliminated, because chaos is growth, freedom, and fun, among other things. So what I'm really saying, Chaos is not just evil. There is good in it too.

[The Prime Reaper 180]

First of all, Equestria is a society that functions much better than any I know of, except for Andorra; they're all there. Speaking of Andorra, let's look at it for comparison to a fictional world. Andorra (one of the happiest places on earth) shares a lot in common with the fictitious land of equines: relatively low population, great natural beauty. (On a side note, Andorra also has high life expectancy) Andorra also hasn't been at war for 700 years. Let's use that example to represent harmony. Andorra/Equestria hasn't been at war (which is an example of bad chaos) for nearly a millennium (not counting the season finales: those weren't wars), and, possibly as a result, has caused great happiness (harmony) among its citizens. Harmony does not always mean complete order: because complete order is tyranny; harmony means something along the lines of peace.

 

As for the Equestrians' hostility towards other races, it is just because they were too hostile to be reasoned with. For the Changelings we do not have enough information to make a judgement call, as they could have eaten other things as well. For all we know, they could have just liked love better than food. Also, they were attempting a hostile takeover, not an eating spree.

 

You said that the Equestrians were contradicting themselves by defeating Discord and others, but no rule can be fair if followed all the time. The U.S. Declaration of Independence states that all men have the right to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." It then goes on to contradict itself, saying that if someone took away someone else's life, liberty, etc., they could get theirs taken away. This is obviously good, because otherwise there could be no law. The same goes for Equestria and the defeat of several villains. They can be punished if they punish others too much.

 

As for oppressing chaos: Equestria only is against evil chaos. It's like those alignment tables; there's chaotic good, chaotic evil, good harmony, and bad harmony (although I prefer to call it oppression, as harmony is supposed to be intrinsically good by definition.) Discord represented evil chaos, which hurts other people. That's something that Equestria oppresses because it needs to be oppressed: what if we didn't oppress murder? Good chaos, like Pinkie Pie's , is not bad, and I think that we all need a little bit o' chaos in our lives.

 

Furthermore, bad chaos (Discord) consists of crimes and sins and shouldn't be tolerated, while good chaos (P.P) is needed and should be tolerated. Good chaos is doing evil; good chaos is doing unorganized or spontaneous things. They're completely different things, if you look closely.

 

Discord's reign was only bad chaos under the guise of good chaos. The only difference was that he was having fun while making everypony miserable. Discord wasn't actually all that different from all the other villains, unless you're only looking superficially.

 

 

So no, I don't think Equestria has it wrong.

Chaos leads to fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

 

thank you so much if you read this waffle of a post (more like a pancake).

Equestria is just the most all-our limited mind created in the mind of Lauren Faust, I mean it is still flawed than the real world but in somewhat those ponies still didn't suffer miserably like us in reality. Those ponies can't bear the pain in reality in one day as they can perish few seconds in reality as they experiencing pain. Humans are unique! We hated and feared each other to lead to constant war and violence but we are born in chaos and created by Order. We are impressively high pain tolerant, we become more powerful and smarter as we enduring pain in somewhat we learning to become nicer as suffering through sorrow.

 

Discord is not the true chaos but just a fragment of the real one. The real one is millions times more terrific to Discord. Discord is playing too nice on ponies by just having on the, while real Chaos making humans and other spieces to suffer in the paradox of illusive painful world to make us stray away from order and reality. You have to understand that suffering is just a food of our minds as pain making us more kindness and hating toward chaos while we are still ravaging wars. God tricked Chaos! Chaos can do anything to us but it can never take away our minds and souls. We created chaos!

 

About the constitution of Us. You mentioned, it is just the law of men seem to judge each other in the beginning but the. We fought after series of wars later but to improve it for everyone to live

I suppose it was bad chaos. Then my thought is going to be based now on whether Discord will still be allowed to be chaotic, or if he will be forced to conform to Order. I'd like to see whether he is forced to conform, or if he is just forced to be respectful of others.

 

 

Everything you say just about lines up logically. The one issue I have remaining is your continued stance that chaos is purely evil... or perhaps you don't think Chaos is pure evil, and there is simply a miscommunication here? Because you equate Chaos to Freedom, which is good, if checked by Order. Order is good, because Chaos cannot rule. But at the same time, Chaos should not be eliminated, because chaos is growth, freedom, and fun, among other things. So what I'm really saying, Chaos is not just evil. There is good in it too.

The real good thing in chaos! It offers us Freeedom!!

The reasons why we can do anything in the universe because it letting us to do whatever we want lawlessly.

[Arcangel 9]

Equestria is just the most all-our limited mind created in the mind of Lauren Faust, I mean it is still flawed than the real world but in somewhat those ponies still didn't suffer miserably like us in reality. Those ponies can't bear the pain in reality in one day as they can perish few seconds in reality as they experiencing pain. Humans are unique! We hated and feared each other to lead to constant war and violence but we are born in chaos and created by Order. We are impressively high pain tolerant, we become more powerful and smarter as we enduring pain in somewhat we learning to become nicer as suffering through sorrow.

 

Discord is not the true chaos but just a fragment of the real one. The real one is millions times more terrific to Discord. Discord is playing too nice on ponies by just having on the, while real Chaos making humans and other spieces to suffer in the paradox of illusive painful world to make us stray away from order and reality. You have to understand that suffering is just a food of our minds as pain making us more kindness and hating toward chaos while we are still ravaging wars. God tricked Chaos! Chaos can do anything to us but it can never take away our minds and souls. We created chaos!

How do we know ponies did not suffer previously? Hearth's Warming times seemed pretty chaotic to me.

 

Also, assuming Discord is chaos incarnate, we can also assume he was just toying with the mane 6. People are only as powerful as the believe they are.

 

Chaos is more of a concept than a beast. It is also the cause, and answer to, all of life's problems. Hence it's continuation.

 

Equestria is a fictional land full of pastel ponies in a kids' cartoon. They better be freaking happy. I bet they could overcome normal human problems if they needed to. I mean, a lot of the episodes are "slice-of-life," right?

[The Prime Reaper 180]

How do we know ponies did not suffer previously? Hearth's Warming times seemed pretty chaotic to me.

 

Also, assuming Discord is chaos incarnate, we can also assume he was just toying with the mane 6. People are only as powerful as the believe they are.

 

Chaos is more of a concept than a beast. It is also the cause, and answer to, all of life's problems. Hence it's continuation.

 

Equestria is a fictional land full of pastel ponies in a kids' cartoon. They better be freaking happy. I bet they could overcome normal human problems if they needed to. I mean, a lot of the episodes are "slice-of-life," right?

Heart warming eve is still too kind toward ponies, they didn't suffer that much since there is no evidence of mass starvation with countless casualties. While our humans are cruel to each other from Holocaust to the Internet abuse and hates.

 

Discord is just a pet of Chaos! Discord has the nature of humor as he has been a pet and pet always likes to play right?

 

Lauren Faust created a kid show in order to calm away our violent nature as what like order doing to balance the world. Beside, I do not think any pony can survive heart attack after seeing their porns.

[Arcangel 9]

Heart warming eve is still too kind toward ponies, they didn't suffer that much since there is no evidence of mass starvation with countless casualties. While our humans are cruel to each other from Holocaust to the Internet abuse and hates.

 

Discord is just a pet of Chaos! Discord has the nature of humor as he has been a pet and pet always likes to play right?

 

Lauren Faust created a kid show in order to calm away our violent nature as what like order doing to balance the world.

Simmer down, there, Prime Reaper. This is a philosophy thread, no need for so many exclamation points. Also, please don't bring religion into this.

[Malinter 3,064]

the only thing wrong about the big bang theory is that while it logically explains the creation of the universe, there are two things it cannot (possibly ever) cover/or explain.

 

1/ What existed before the big bang.

2/ What exists outside of it.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Malinter

[Heretick-Tock 462]

When we understand what chaos isn't, because understanding what it is means you don't understand it at all, we then learn that philosophy is completely useless when trying to decipher it.

Chaos is both order and disorder. Ultimately, it's just the stuff that happens around us, what we cannot control. Once we acknowledge this, the need to be "smart" seems a whole lot more silly than it did before we first started.
There is no such thing as "evil", just a misunderstanding of what the hell is going on; and the misunderstanding is the belief that we understand what is going on.

So instead of trying to discover the secrets of the universe it is wise to take a step back, and realize they don't even exist in the first place. Go eat a hot dog.

[BalanceBrony 259]

When we understand what chaos isn't, because understanding what it is means you don't understand it at all, we then learn that philosophy is completely useless when trying to decipher it.

 

Chaos is both order and disorder. Ultimately, it's just the stuff that happens around us, what we cannot control. Once we acknowledge this, the need to be "smart" seems a whole lot more silly than it did before we first started.

There is no such thing as "evil", just a misunderstanding of what the hell is going on; and the misunderstanding is the belief that we understand what is going on.

 

So instead of trying to discover the secrets of the universe it is wise to take a step back, and realize they don't even exist in the first place. Go eat a hot dog.

Your point is almost self-defeating. Saying that humans can only misunderstand is claiming that you have an understanding of human nature. If humans misunderstand, then by any probability, you could be just as wrong in your statements as me. It is the same problem as we see in Pyrrhonian Skepticism, which holds that nothing is certain (except for uncertainty), which means in fact that you could be wrong in stating that nothing is certain. Human subjectivity means everypony has equal probabilities of being correct or incorrect. Everypony has equal capacities to understand and misunderstand. As such it is inherently flawed to claim any objective truth, including the truth that there is no truth.

 

Now, your argument would make a little more sense if you had worded it as such: "Humans, as subjective creatures who could possibly be right or wrong on any given matter, cannot be sure if there is a truth or not through any amount of debate and reasoning. As such, any philosophical debates are worthless, as in the end, they bring us no closer to any objective truth, given human subjectivity."

 

That being said, I would argue that human uncertainty and misunderstanding, and our inability to know objective truth (if there is one) does not mean we cannot debate on objective truths. It is interesting to share ideas and, whether or not an objective truth exists or not, there are truths which exist regarding human society.

 

Society, as a strictly human construct, can have truths to the way it functions, as society is contained entirely within the human perspective. All things about it can be determined through careful analysis of the way things are, and pondering of the way things could be. Whether or not truth exists objectively is not pertinent to this discussion, as we can never know. What is pertinent is the question of what truths exist within the context of society, and how they would be applied in said society.

 

Chaos, whatever its nature or objective existence (or nonexistence), is a concept which exists within the scope of society. As such, for the purpose of societal analysis, we can treat it as an objective truth, because it is a concept which exists, as far as society is concerned. Our purpose here is to debate whether Chaos is evil from the perspective of society, and if so whether it should be considered evil or not.

[Heretick-Tock 462]

Your point is almost self-defeating. Saying that humans can only misunderstand is claiming that you have an understanding of human nature. If humans misunderstand, then by any probability, you could be just as wrong in your statements as me. It is the same problem as we see in Pyrrhonian Skepticism, which holds that nothing is certain (except for uncertainty), which means in fact that you could be wrong in stating that nothing is certain. Human subjectivity means everypony has equal probabilities of being correct or incorrect. Everypony has equal capacities to understand and misunderstand. As such it is inherently flawed to claim any objective truth, including the truth that there is no truth.

 

Now, your argument would make a little more sense if you had worded it as such: "Humans, as subjective creatures who could possibly be right or wrong on any given matter, cannot be sure if there is a truth or not through any amount of debate and reasoning. As such, any philosophical debates are worthless, as in the end, they bring us no closer to any objective truth, given human subjectivity."

 

That being said, I would argue that human uncertainty and misunderstanding, and our inability to know objective truth (if there is one) does not mean we cannot debate on objective truths. It is interesting to share ideas and, whether or not an objective truth exists or not, there are truths which exist regarding human society.

 

Society, as a strictly human construct, can have truths to the way it functions, as society is contained entirely within the human perspective. All things about it can be determined through careful analysis of the way things are, and pondering of the way things could be. Whether or not truth exists objectively is not pertinent to this discussion, as we can never know. What is pertinent is the question of what truths exist within the context of society, and how they would be applied in said society.

 

Chaos, whatever its nature or objective existence (or nonexistence), is a concept which exists within the scope of society. As such, for the purpose of societal analysis, we can treat it as an objective truth, because it is a concept which exists, as far as society is concerned. Our purpose here is to debate whether Chaos is evil from the perspective of society, and if so whether it should be considered evil or not.

 

Trying to make sense out of something that doesn't make sense, or using human philosophy to argue something that is completely and entirely inhuman is just as effective as using a water bottle to make out with God's middle name.

 

After I discovered that Chaos is neither intellectual or stupid, nor did it make any sense to the current state of the human mind, it's really useless to debate it. Philosophy shows nothing but that we're trying to be smart by being stupid, and it's bullshit.

Actually it shows that we accept any bullshit as truth, and we're trying to think about it. The only way to understand chaos is to not understand it and not think about it. 

The more you try to learn, the less you understand. And it truly is a whole lot more fun than debating who's smarter or using "logic".

[BalanceBrony 259]

Trying to make sense out of something that doesn't make sense, or using human philosophy to argue something that is completely and entirely inhuman is just as effective as using a water bottle to make out with God's middle name.

 

After I discovered that Chaos is neither intellectual or stupid, nor did it make any sense to the current state of the human mind, it's really useless to debate it. Philosophy shows nothing but that we're trying to be smart by being stupid, and it's bullshit.

Actually it shows that we accept any bullshit as truth, and we're trying to think about it. The only way to understand chaos is to not understand it and not think about it. 

The more you try to learn, the less you understand. And it truly is a whole lot more fun than debating who's smarter or using "logic".

Again, Chaos, whether it objectively exists or not, or whatever its nature, is undoubtedly a concept which applies to human and/or pony society. As such, it is worth debating. It doesn't matter if something exists outside of our paradigm or not. So long as it exists within our paradigm, it is pertinent. Everything is as it is. All we can do is try to figure out how to work with the cards we've been dealt. Just because a solution seems out of our grasp does not mean we shouldn't stretch for it. For all we know, we could figure it out one day. You don't know, and I don't know. Therefore, neither of us can make an objective statement of whether this is worthwhile or not.

 

You think this is BS? So, why not leave the discussion if you find it so petty? Stating over and over that truth seems out of reach is not contributing to the discussion at all, and if you think a topic is pointless, just leave. Don't disrupt it. It is of no good to anypony to just butt in and call a whole thread pointless. Obviously we find merit here. If you don't, that's fine. But don't take away from our discussion.

[Malinter 3,064]

Chaos is Chaos. It is in itself neither good or bad, things can go wrong for the better just as much as they can for the worse. Chaos only gets its Good or Evil alignment from someone using it to either end.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Malinter

[Heretick-Tock 462]

Again, Chaos, whether it objectively exists or not, or whatever its nature, is undoubtedly a concept which applies to human and/or pony society. As such, it is worth debating. It doesn't matter if something exists outside of our paradigm or not. So long as it exists within our paradigm, it is pertinent. Everything is as it is. All we can do is try to figure out how to work with the cards we've been dealt. Just because a solution seems out of our grasp does not mean we shouldn't stretch for it. For all we know, we could figure it out one day. You don't know, and I don't know. Therefore, neither of us can make an objective statement of whether this is worthwhile or not.

 

You think this is BS? So, why not leave the discussion if you find it so petty? Stating over and over that truth seems out of reach is not contributing to the discussion at all, and if you think a topic is pointless, just leave. Don't disrupt it. It is of no good to anypony to just butt in and call a whole thread pointless. Obviously we find merit here. If you don't, that's fine. But don't take away from our discussion.

That's an assumption, not an established fact. There is no way to know that anything is true, which is the only way to not understand Chaos. 

And the fact that you're attempting to use logic to try to understand anything shows hypnosis to the world around you. The same thing happens to a lot of people who live their lives attempting to become smart (IE: human nature). Now, I'm not saying I'm not human; I'm simply trying to convey that I don't know anything. 

 

And it's bullshit because we're trying to answer physical pseudoquestions which cannot be answered by any mathematical formula and will ultimately lead us in circles: proving humanity is, indeed, insane. It's just like trying to explain the meaning of life or why we're here, those are completely relative and show that we're really not making a whole lot of progress in the thinking department. We're just making the same excuses which lead us absolutely nowhere. 

 

Now eat a hot dog and take a nap.

[Hive King 2,001]

While chaos is not bad, discord is. There is a difference between chaos and discord, Discord obviously following discord. 

 

Discord is disagreement between people, i.e. strife, hostility, bad blood, etc.

Chaos is lack of order, i.e. confusion, mayhem, disorder, etc.

 

Discord is quite clearly following discord by creating strife and disagreement. Were he true chaos, he'd have no alliance and would do good as well. Discord also knows he's bad and enjoyed doing evil, another point against him embodying chaos, which is neither good nor bad. 

 

As for the Changelings, they just committed a terrorist attack and their feeding method apparently reduces the victim to a lifeless husk and mind-rapes them in the process. To propose an alliance right after an attack would be foolish, especially since the comics show that the Changelings regret nothing and that Chrysalis is a monster. 

 

Evilness chart: Sombra>Nightmare Moon>Chrysalis>Demon Sunset Shimmer>Discord