Iron will: Monster or Mintotaur?

[Never2muchpinkie 211]

Pinkie and Rarity seem to put him purely in monster territory, but it really isn't that simple. It can't even be simply chalked up to bad advice as they claim. As a passive person myself and as someone who's read self-help books about assertiveness Fluttershy's reaction was perfectly normal. I read that people who are first learning to be assertive tend to bypass assertiveness entirely to aggressiveness in an attempt to not backtrack into passivity. And, me personally, I'm the same way. When I get mad enough to actually speak up I tend to get nastily aggressive instead of assertive.

 

And Iron Will wasn't even that bad of a creature to begin with. He holds seminars to help ponies be more assertive. He offers a 100% satisfaction guarantee which he KEEPS. He does yell at Fluttershy and act like he's going to beat her up if she doesn't pay, but the second she politely yet assertively tells him she's not satisfied, so she's not paying, he backs off and then tries to bargain with her for a little money. When she again turns him down he not only politely leaves without giving her more trouble, he even decides that 'No means no' is a good saying and he's going to use it in his next workshop.

 

So really I feel his character seemed akin to a used car salesman, but he was a decent guy at heart. Him getting in Fluttershy's face was probably at first just him not being passive and shy. Do we even know if all those rhymes Fluttershy kept spouting were his sayings, or ones she made up herself?

[FNGRpony 658]

I liked iron will LOL.

At worse he as a cheap swindler.

 

At worse.He didn't drag flutter shy to his show.

he didn't make any one go.
Granted i can see not calling discord a villian,

 

but i have a hard time entirely calling iron will a monster in the least.

[*Rarity 123]

To me he's a bad guy, I don't really like him very much, even if it was "fluttershy's fault for overkilling it" he was a bit brutal and all. He's probably a pretty nice guy underneath though, but yeah, in a general matter, I don't like him very much.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

It's a nice theory, but remember that pretty much the first thing he taught Fluttershy to do was to knock people out of her way and yell "why don't you look where you're going!" at them.

 

"If somepony tries to block, show them that you rock!"

Edited October 24, 2013 by Andaasonsan

[Malinter 3,064]

I only think Rarity and Pinkie call him a monster because of his size and strength. I'm pretty sure they'd label NMM a monster too even tho she's clearly a pony (ableit an alicorn). Another example could be said of when Spike becomes Spikezilla. he's still a dragon but now that he's gigantic he's a monster,

Edited October 24, 2013 by Malinter

[Sunny Fox 5,961]

The problem is that Iron Will, despite what he claims, and I'm sure he even believes it himself, is not teaching assertiveness at all. He's teaching aggression. "Never apologize when you can criticize"? So never admit when you're wrong, but tell the other person off instead? "You make me lose, I blow my fuse," means if somebody wrongs you, you lose your temper? To be fair, some of his sayings can be assertive, like "Cut in line, I'll take what's mine", but for the most part his mottoes and his actions were aggressive and not assertive. Rarity hits the nail on the head when she says Fluttershy got bad advice from him. Although I don't think he behaved like a monster. He's a minotaur, but he's not a good teacher of assertiveness.

[Malinter 3,064]

He even says himself that no one has ever said 'no' to him before. There is probably some kind of irony in there that for all his size, strength and aggressiveness, all some would have to do is stand up and ask him nicely and he'd stop.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Malinter

[FNGRpony 658]

I'm going to go into the dangerous world of fan dumb (hay works for lyria and derpy)

and I've seen a webcomic out there, a Lyria and Dr hooves comic (runs about 11 or so chapters good read

 

http://edowaado.deviantart.com/art/Doctor-Whooves-This-Is-Where-It-Gets-Complicated-1-294768080

where iron will ends up in the part of a good guy.

 

And it's something believable given his character traits. 

Okay maybe i liked the fact he ends up helping Lyria  (he is part human ^ ~ go fig)

 

Maybe his aggression in the equistra setting was only ever doomed to be seen as negative.

 

If iron will is a bad guy he's the kind of carney barker pro wrestling heal bad guy that sort of amused me as a kid.

(which is ironic i've grown out of that and I'm watching ponies right?)

[KikiTwilight 90]

Biologically he's a mintotaur, and what's underneath... I don't think he's really a monster, though. 

 

He does his job, which might or not be fair job to do. He might have started with good intentions (he most likely has, in fact), but, just like Fluttershy, had gotten too far along the way. He probably hadn't even realized that what he teaches is no longer assertiveness but aggression, instead. Of course, Fluttershy too took his lessons too far. All that combined... we all know what that led to.

 

Some of his catchphrases were rather "hard", like that one: "Never apologize, when you can criticize", but I don't think his real intentions are bad. After all, he accepted Fluttershy's "no lession" a bit too easy for a monster. Probably he had realized what he'd been doing in meantime then.

 

Interesting topic for discussion.

[Mywas 687]

He even says himself that no one has ever said 'no' to him before. There is probably some kind of irony in there that for all his size, strength and aggressiveness, all some would have to do is s

tand up and ask him nicely and he'd stop.

I think thats why his lessons are not that good. Its because there hasn't been anyone that dared to say that his lessons has some flaws and the ponies he taught pretended that his lessons are perfect because they are afraid of him.

Heck he might work on his lessons now that somepony standed up to him.

I really want him back, he reminds me of The Rock for some reason

[Hive King 2,001]

I like Iron Will, he's like a pro wrestler in that you shouldn't take his catch-phrases to heart. Iron Will is no monster and while his adive may have been bad, I doubt he was intentionally trying to do bad. Rarity and Pinkie were being rather racist, calling him a monster and what not. 

[Never2muchpinkie 211]

It's a nice theory, but remember that pretty much the first thing he taught Fluttershy to do was to knock people out of her way and yell "why don't you look where you're going!" at them.

 

"If somepony tries to block, show them that you rock!"

To me he's a bad guy, I don't really like him very much, even if it was "fluttershy's fault for overkilling it" he was a bit brutal and all. He's probably a pretty nice guy underneath though, but yeah, in a general matter, I don't like him very much.

Personally I think he's a lot of talk. We do have to keep in mind the species difference though. For example of a cultural difference, looking someone in the eye could be a sign of respect, while in others it's a sign of disrespect.

So for minotaurs, what's considered aggressiveness in ponies may be considered assertiveness to other minotaurs.

 

And it could just be that Iron Will himself misconstrued the difference between assertiveness and aggressiveness. He does say that nobody has ever said no to him before, which either means everyone was happy with what they became, or, as another user said, that they were too afraid of him to tell him the truth out of fear he'd attack them for not paying.