Problems we as a community have noticed with the show.

DryGuy84 (Inactive) · March 17, 2014

This thread is an attempt to find a common set of problems within the show. It is not in anyway a means to bash the older or newer episodes of the show, but is rather an outlet to state any reoccuring problems you had/have within it.

I'll start with a problem I've noticed spanning over the entirety of the series:

Despite what Power Ponies would like to suggest Spike is indeed delegated to being the "Hum-drum" of the group. On top of being the butt of the joke a good chunk of the time, he is so inconsistently portrayed in his appearances it is hard to nail down a concrete personality roughly 90 episodes into the series. That in my opinion is a pretty big issue that will take at least several episodes to rectify.

Feel free to list any problems you think the show is/was experiencing at one point below! (Except DryColt84 that guy's an asshole)

Dark Qiviut · March 17, 2014

Spike. As a big fan of him, it's very annoying how he is constantly the butt of jokes. Ever since the pilot, he's a basis of comic relief. Except Spike isn't simply a character the writers can abuse all the time. He has a personality that is asking to be fleshed out, but DHX doesn't live it to its potential. Instead, he's just the one we can see struggling or victim of abusive slapstick. It was funny if a character deserves it or is an adult. But he's a kid dragon, and Spikabuse isn't funny at all. If it was, it got old very quickly. Now that Power Ponies vocally criticized his sidekick role, it's under subject of more criticism because DHX all but pretends PoP doesn't exist.

And when he's the one who's given an important role, either primary or secondary, the writers are so inconsistent with him. Sometimes, they play him as an immature kid who inadvertently insults the character centric in the story (Twilight in Winter Wrap-Up, Fluttershy in Hurricane Fluttershy, himself in Owl's Well and Just for Sidekicks), a very smart foil (Simple Ways, Lesson Zero, Equestria Girls), just plain out of character (Spike at Your Service, Just for Sidekicks), or not written in at all when it would've made sense to have him included into it (Sweet & Elite, the latter half of Pinkie Pride's third act, Maud Pie). On the flipside, only one Spike episode is good: Secret of My Excess. Each writer varies his character so much, there's little consistency. We're almost four seasons in, and these problems haven't vanished. Give him some consistency so the audience can finally understand what he's like.
I wrote this two months ago in another thread, but it bears some relevance:

As Fluttershy's my most favorite character, this answer is way too easy.

Her post-Season-1 flanderization.

Although she grew into a really interesting and complex character, following Return of Harmony or Lesson Zero, her development went to a standstill, and her characterization and development are way too inconsistent. Sometimes she's so cowardly, she can't do anything. Conversely, she'll become too selfish beyond what she's capable of (i.e., willing to hide and not go to Twilight Sparkle in the Everfree Forest in Magic Duel). Even after an episode where she does develop, it's back to square one, as if it never happened. She's the Spike of comic relief sometimes, and it's very annoying to see her thorough character often reduced to one little note.

Following Rainbow Falls, it's improved, but it needs more improvement.
Way too often, an episode deals with a real-life subject that gets very sensitive, but the show doesn't pull it off so effectively. linked a whole analysis debate between Dr. Wolf and CloudCookooCountry on YouTube off-thread, but I'll address it here, too.
1. Bridle Gossip is the first by addressing racism, but it's such a poorly told story, it's one of the worst episodes in the show.
  
  To tell you some of the problems:
  
  1. Nearly everyone (minus Zecora and maybe even Spike) was out of character. None of the Mane Six had any likeable traits, all falling for stereotypes or stupidity beyond what they were capable of, even then.
  
  Apple Bloom was in character for the most part… But that ended when she left Applejack for dead in the middle of the Everfree Forest. That was stupid of her at least and criminal at worst. It wasn't cool and certainly not funny.
  
  But let's just say they weren't out of character. The Remane Five were unlikeable from the moment they showed up, and behaved worse and worse. When Twilight Sparkle slowly and later believed the gossip, the credibility of her character and word was nullified. Because FIM's about making (the main) characters likeable, that doesn't help BG's integrity. It also doesn't help when you were supposed to laugh WITH the Mane Six and feel sorry for whatever predicaments they were in once affected by the poison joke.
  
  Ironically, the atrocious characterization wasn't the worst part of BG.
  
  2. The moral was terribly written. Firstly, the Mane Six were so stupid and incompetent, Zecora had to tell them to their faces in the final three minutes. In itself, that's terrible teaching and talks down to the audience. Secondly, there's ZERO subtlety. The second the library copy of Supernaturals was shown for the first time, it was quite obvious what the moral was going to be. Typically, predictability hurts the episode when it's this down to the letter, but when there is very sensitive subject like racism, you must show better care for the storytelling.
  
  3. Because of its sensitivity, it's VERY important to show and not tell. It's ESPECIALLY important when you're addressing racism for a product whose base demographic is children (who typically have their guardians watching beside them). There's so much exposition and the moral's so forced, its validity of its sensitivity is reduced, if not moot.
  
  4. The subject of racism was used as a cheap gimmick for the moral. BG reduces its long and complicated history to shunning Zecora because she's scary. In other words, it follows the old tale of white folk (the ponies) shunning the black folk (Zecora) out of fright. Because the conclusion of the episode revolves around a misunderstanding and learning to not be afraid of difference, this parallel absolves the white folk (ponies) of being at fault for their racism towards the black folk (Zecora) and makes the subject — and episode's conflict — extremely hollow.
  
  Because of the subject matter, you need to handle it VERY carefully. If you're going to tackle racism, tackle it head on and do it well without tagging a moral that can complicate things. Bridle Gossip really screws up this subject, thus making it one of the worst episodes in not just Season 1, but the entire show.
  
  Ironically, BG is not an episode I hate. I like it because it was funny. But I refuse to give this a free pass because from an objective quality perspective, it's terrible.
  
  Like what CCC said on YouTube, the context of racism would've been suited better in Hearth's Warming Eve because it addresses the issue without hammering it in so blatantly.
2. Over a Barrel is another, ponifying the struggle between the white settlers/cowboys and Native Americans. In it, Polsky tags in the moral:
  
  Friendship is a wondrous and powerful thing. Even the worst of enemies can become friends. You need understanding and compromise. You've got to share. You've got to care.
  
  By itself, this is a great moral and one all of us can relate to, but hammering it in in the present context doesn't make any sense. Historically, the Natives have the upper moral highground because the settlers entered the Natives' homeland, misplaced them, and slaughtered them. When Columbus discovered the Caribbean and Central America, he helped enslave and eventually commit genocide of ancient Native tribes. The moral and storyline concept worked in the context of the show, but they were an insult to the historical context OaB used to present the moral.
3. One Bad Apple addressed the concept of bullying, and boy, did it screw up. To get it out of the way, the song was fantastic and actually painted a plausible portrayal of bullying. But there are numerous problems.
  
  a. DT and SS are flat, one-dimensional bullies again, nullifying the character growth from past seasons. If you're going to make the context convincing, don't hammer in one-dimensional personalities just to get the message across. It cheapens the whole presentation. (This issue is evident in Flight to the Finish, too.)
  
  b. Applejack and the rest of the Apple family are incompetent because the bullying resulted in AB sleeping on the floor. If they had the competence and intelligence, they would've spotted it immediately and get to the bottom of things. The only reason they didn't was simply because "the plot says so." It's annoyingly contrived.
  
  c. The pace in itself is sloppy, going way too fast. Take the time to address the issue of bullying. Don't rush it to finish the plot.
  
  d. The entire idea that the CMCs are bullies themselves because they got sick and tired of being bullied and decided to fight back. No, that's NOT bullying. They wanted to defend themselves because they were sick and tired of being pushed around, and they wanted Babs to know exactly how it feels. "Don't act against a bully because doing so makes you as bad as a bully" is a terrible moral!
  
  e. The fact that Babs Seed became a sadistic bully because she was bullied in Manehattan was excused in the script. That's NO excuse for bullying!
  
  f. One Bad Apple paints a one-size-fits-all method to combat bullying, which is to come to AJ (or any other adult) in case of bullies (something SB suggested several times earlier!). That doesn't always work because some don't care, while some adults enable the bullying or are the bully. Bullying is a very difficult subject to address because it's so multi-layered, and it's very important to address it sensitively.
  
  To make it worse, Babs Seed not only wasn't punished. She was basically rewarded for her immoral behavior. You don't screw up a very sensitive subject. You know what happens if you do? You could cause a reverse effect and enable this kind of behavior. The sorry way OBA's story and moral were written could also put kids in serious danger. It's victim-shaming at its finest, and it's disgusting!
Sometimes the endings are very contrived just to reach a conclusion. To give you three examples:

a. Sonic Rainboom. With Celestia watching, Rainbow Dash descended to catch her and the Wonderbolts, creating a Sonic Rainboom in the process. There are several big problems with it.

Firstly, Celestia did nothing to stop the fall and simply stood back and watched. What if Rarity and the Wonderbolts died from the fall? If they did, Celestia would look like an even bigger asshole than Nightmare Moon and Discord combined. To make matters worse, Twilight would never want anything to do with Celestia, Canterlot, the Royal Sisters, and the School for Gifted Unicorns as long as she lived. Celestia had no place being there.

Fluttershy and crew reacted to Dash's Sonic Rainboom despite the fact that the danger wasn't through yet. If they (including Dash) got killed in the fall, the celebration is over. The premature celebration trivialized Fluttershy, the others watching, and the whole predicament. This leads me to the next issue.

Dash pulled off the Sonic Rainboom before catching Rarity and the Wonderbolts. Rather than having her do it before she catches them, how about catching them during the fall and then forcibly trying to turn around at even higher speed so none of them crash to the ground? By doing that, then you have the characters celebrate not just the event, but also the daring rescue.

(This is partially why I rate Wonderbolts Academy better than Rainboom. Unlike SR, WA correctly handles the ending.)

b. Maud Pie and The Crystal Empire. As everyone watches, Maud and Cadance suddenly come in to help out. The climaxes would've ended more plausibly if Rainbow Dash was the one to rescue them.

Here's an idea to improve them.

TCE: As Spike falls, Rainbow Dash flies, grabbing Spike and the Crystal Heart. Then once she descends to the altar, Cadance descends, too, and give her speech to honor the Heart and expel Sombra.

MP: As the rock starts to teeter, Rainbow Dash flies over to try to move the rocks. Maud follows and smashes the rock to free her, and Dash and Pinkie run off. Then as the big boulder tumbles down, Maud jackhammers through the boulder, disintegrating it.
Far too many episodes could've been resolved in the middle of Act 2 if the characters didn't behave like idiots just to force the plot along. Boast Busters, Owl's Well, Green Isn't Your Color (the Twilight/Pinkie side-plot really related to it), Swarm of the Century, Mare-Do-Well, Sweet & Elite, Games Ponies Play, and Rainbow Falls all could've been resolved early, but because of the twenty-minute script time, they had to pad them with unnecessary crap.
And on a related note, one of my biggest peeves in entertainment is making characters stupid and incompetent (especially if doing so is out of character) just to fit the plot. Far too often, Twilight's intelligence and ability to handle powerful magic are dumbed down to embellish the conflict. But it isn't just her. The other characters are affected, too, like Applejack in Somepony to Watch Over Me, Dash in Daring Don't and Rainbow Falls, Rarity and Trenderhoof in Simple Ways, the Diamond Dogs in A Dog & Pony Show, Snips & Snails, the entirety of MMMystery, Pinkie's flanderization post-Hurricane Fluttershyand so on. Stupidity and incompetence make for cheap storytelling and cheap humor. It tells me the writers are stuck with the conflict and want to write either an easy way out or humor that doesn't belong. Furthermore, having characters be stupid or incompetent just to make the opposite look better undermines the conflict and moral. Equestria Girls, Bridle Gossip, Feeling Pinkie Keen, A Dog & Pony Show, Mare-Do-Well, Rainbow Falls, A Canterlot Wedding, Dragon Quest, I'm looking at you!

Edited March 17, 2014 by Dark Qiviut

Scootalove · March 17, 2014

1. Spike being the character that has to be the most of the jokes.

2. Making a character stupid and blind to everything around them, just because the plot demands it.

Say what you will, but that's all that I have to say.

DryGuy84 (Inactive) · March 17, 2014

Spike. As a big fan of him, it's very annoying how he is constantly the butt of jokes. Ever since the pilot, he's a basis of comic relief. Except Spike isn't simply a character the writers can abuse all the time. He has a personality that is asking to be fleshed out, but DHX doesn't live it to its potential. Instead, he's just the one we can see struggling or victim of abusive slapstick. It was funny if a character deserves it or is an adult. But he's a kid dragon, and Spikabuse isn't funny at all. If it was, it got old very quickly. Now that Power Ponies vocally criticized his sidekick role, it's under subject of more criticism because DHX all but pretends PoP doesn't exist.

And when he's the one who's given an important role, either primary or secondary, the writers are so inconsistent with him. Sometimes, they play him as an immature kid who inadvertently insults the character centric in the story (Twilight in Winter Wrap-Up, Fluttershy in Hurricane Fluttershy, himself in Owl's Well and Just for Sidekicks), a very smart foil (Simple Ways, Lesson Zero, Equestria Girls), just plain out of character (Spike at Your Service, Just for Sidekicks), or not written in at all when it would've made sense to have him included into it (Sweet & Elite, the latter half of Pinkie Pride's third act, Maud Pie). On the flipside, only one Spike episode is good: Secret of My Excess. Each writer varies his character so much, there's little consistency. We're almost four seasons in, and these problems haven't vanished. Give him some consistency so the audience can finally understand what he's like.

I wrote this two months ago in another thread, but it bears some relevance:

Following Rainbow Falls, it's improved, but it needs more improvement.

Way too often, an episode deals with a real-life subject that gets very sensitive, but the show doesn't pull it off so effectively. linked a whole analysis debate between Dr. Wolf and CloudCookooCountry on YouTube off-thread, but I'll address it here, too.

Bridle Gossip is the first by addressing racism, but it's such a poorly told story, it's one of the worst episodes in the show.

To tell you some of the problems:

Ironically, BG is not an episode I hate. I like it because it was funny. But I refuse to give this a free pass because from an objective quality perspective, it's terrible.

Like what CCC said on YouTube, the context of racism would've been suited better in Hearth's Warming Eve because it addresses the issue without hammering it in so blatantly.

Over a Barrel is another, ponifying the struggle between the white settlers/cowboys and Native Americans. In it, Polsky tags in the moral:

By itself, this is a great moral and one all of us can relate to, but hammering it in in the present context doesn't make any sense. Historically, the Natives have the upper moral highground because the settlers entered the Natives' homeland, misplaced them, and slaughtered them. When Columbus discovered the Caribbean and Central America, he helped enslave and eventually commit genocide of ancient Native tribes. The moral and storyline concept worked in the context of the show, but they were an insult to the historical context OaB used to present the moral.

One Bad Apple addressed the concept of bullying, and boy, did it screw up. To get it out of the way, the song was fantastic and actually painted a plausible portrayal of bullying. But there are numerous problems.

a. DT and SS are flat, one-dimensional bullies again, nullifying the character growth from past seasons. If you're going to make the context convincing, don't hammer in one-dimensional personalities just to get the message across. It cheapens the whole presentation. (This issue is evident in Flight to the Finish, too.)

b. Applejack and the rest of the Apple family are incompetent because the bullying resulted in AB sleeping on the floor. If they had the competence and intelligence, they would've spotted it immediately and get to the bottom of things. The only reason they didn't was simply because "the plot says so." It's annoyingly contrived.

c. The pace in itself is sloppy, going way too fast. Take the time to address the issue of bullying. Don't rush it to finish the plot.

d. The entire idea that the CMCs are bullies themselves because they got sick and tired of being bullied and decided to fight back. No, that's NOT bullying. They wanted to defend themselves because they were sick and tired of being pushed around, and they wanted Babs to know exactly how it feels. "Don't act against a bully because doing so makes you as bad as a bully" is a terrible moral!

e. The fact that Babs Seed became a sadistic bully because she was bullied in Manehattan was excused in the script. That's NO excuse for bullying!

f. One Bad Apple paints a one-size-fits-all method to combat bullying, which is to come to AJ (or any other adult) in case of bullies (something SB suggested several times earlier!). That doesn't always work because some don't care, while some adults enable the bullying or are the bully. Bullying is a very difficult subject to address because it's so multi-layered, and it's very important to address it sensitively.

To make it worse, Babs Seed not only wasn't punished. She was basically rewarded for her immoral behavior. You don't screw up a very sensitive subject. You know what happens if you do? You could cause a reverse effect and enable this kind of behavior. The sorry way OBA's story and moral were written could also put kids in serious danger. It's victim-shaming at its finest, and it's disgusting!

Sometimes the endings are very contrived just to reach a conclusion. To give you three examples:

a. Sonic Rainboom. With Celestia watching, Rainbow Dash descended to catch her and the Wonderbolts, creating a Sonic Rainboom in the process. There are several big problems with it.

Firstly, Celestia did nothing to stop the fall and simply stood back and watched. What if Rarity and the Wonderbolts died from the fall? If they did, Celestia would look like an even bigger asshole than Nightmare Moon and Discord combined. To make matters worse, Twilight would never want anything to do with Celestia, Canterlot, the Royal Sisters, and the School for Gifted Unicorns as long as she lived. Celestia had no place being there.

Fluttershy and crew reacted to Dash's Sonic Rainboom despite the fact that the danger wasn't through yet. If they (including Dash) got killed in the fall, the celebration is over. The premature celebration trivialized Fluttershy, the others watching, and the whole predicament. This leads me to the next issue.

Dash pulled off the Sonic Rainboom before catching Rarity and the Wonderbolts. Rather than having her do it before she catches them, how about catching them during the fall and then forcibly trying to turn around at even higher speed so none of them crash to the ground? By doing that, then you have the characters celebrate not just the event, but also the daring rescue.

(This is partially why I rate Wonderbolts Academy better than Rainboom. Unlike SR, WA correctly handles the ending.)

b. Maud Pie and The Crystal Empire. As everyone watches, Maud and Cadance suddenly come in to help out. The climaxes would've ended more plausibly if Rainbow Dash was the one to rescue them.

Here's an idea to improve them.

TCE: As Spike falls, Rainbow Dash flies, grabbing Spike and the Crystal Heart. Then once she descends to the altar, Cadance descends, too, and give her speech to honor the Heart and expel Sombra.

MP: As the rock starts to teeter, Rainbow Dash flies over to try to move the rocks. Maud follows and smashes the rock to free her, and Dash and Pinkie run off. Then as the big boulder tumbles down, Maud jackhammers through the boulder, disintegrating it.

Far too many episodes could've been resolved in the middle of Act 2 if the characters didn't behave like idiots just to force the plot along. Boast Busters, Owl's Well, Green Isn't Your Color (the Twilight/Pinkie side-plot really related to it), Swarm of the Century, Mare-Do-Well, Sweet & Elite, Games Ponies Play, and Rainbow Falls all could've been resolved early, but because of the twenty-minute script time, they had to pad them with unnecessary crap.

And on a related note, one of my biggest peeves in entertainment is making characters stupid and incompetent (especially if doing so is out of character) just to fit the plot. Far too often, Twilight's intelligence and ability to handle powerful magic are dumbed down to embellish the conflict. But it isn't just her. The other characters are affected, too, like Applejack in Somepony to Watch Over Me, Dash in Daring Don't and Rainbow Falls, Rarity and Trenderhoof in Simple Ways, the Diamond Dogs in A Dog & Pony Show, Snips & Snails, the entirety of MMMystery, Pinkie's flanderization post-Hurricane Fluttershyand so on. Stupidity and incompetence make for cheap storytelling and cheap humor. It tells me the writers are stuck with the conflict and want to write either an easy way out or humor that doesn't belong. Furthermore, having characters be stupid or incompetent just to make the opposite look better undermines the conflict and moral. Equestria Girls, Bridle Gossip, Feeling Pinkie Keen, A Dog & Pony Show, Mare-Do-Well, Rainbow Falls, A Canterlot Wedding, Dragon Quest, I'm looking at you!

I agree with all of your points, but tbh Deus Ex Machinas and wonky pacing rarely make me upset. They are there, I'm not going to argue that, but it just doesn't bother me much.

1. Spike being the character that has to be the most of the jokes.

2. Making a character stupid and blind to everything around them, just because the plot demands it.

Say what you will, but that's all that I have to say.

These are the main two that get my goat as well.

Orablanco Account · March 17, 2014

Not in the mood for an essay response or proofreading, so basically, in summary:

1. The CMC have actually gotten a great amount of development this season, but the Mane Six...not so much. Season 4 has been too content to have most of its episode just be inconsequential fluff. Maybe I've been spoiled by S3's attempt to give each of its episodes at least some semblance of development, but it doesn't feel like the writers have anything interesting for these characters to do, despite the fact that one of them became a freaking princess. Pure Tara Strong hasn't had anything to work with this entire season. I probably should be enjoying the fluff for what it is, and I have been able to do just that with a few of said fluffy episodes, but the problem is that

2. The writing is decidedly less sharp overall. You have all these wonderfully complex characters and the writers keep resorting to the Mane Six's most basic traits for dialogue. Some writers known what they're doing (way to school the newbies, Amy Keaton Rogers), but we keep having to hear Dash use the word "awesome" when describing everything (mostly herself, of course), or Pinkie act like a total spaz out of nowhere, or Rarity try to relate literally every single event to fashion.

Seriously. Did anyone else know for a fact that she was gonna mention something dressmaking-related when they visited the breezy homeworld? Isn't it lovely when you can always predict what a character is going to do in a given situation? Every time?

3. STOP DOING EQG AND GIVE ME MY PONY MOVIE ALREADY, YOU CURS.

On that note, Hasbro not really understanding what they have on their hands is starting to get a bit annoying. No, I'm not one of those people who think the show should try to appeal exclusively to an older fanbase, because a show made for bronies is a terrifying prospect. I simply mean to say that Hasbro keeps harshing DHX's buzz with all these EQG's and breezies and what-nots. I don't think anybody would mind if they'd stop trying to alienate the majority of its fans.

4. More of a personal issue that I'm not sure if anyone else has, but it's bit too obvious when the writers are trying to distract us with something. Derpy Hooves is a wonderful force of cosmic good, not some secret weapon you can literally trot out when an episode is going south. That may work on some, but not me! You cannot bribe me with the confirmation that Time Turner actually is the Doctor; the breezies still suck eggs!

Also, I agree with the writer's mishandling Spike, but others shall fulfill that mission for me.

Edited March 17, 2014 by CITRUS KING46

DryGuy84 (Inactive) · March 18, 2014

Not in the mood for an essay response or proofreading, so basically, in summary:

1. The CMC have actually gotten a great amount of development this season, but the Mane Six...not so much. Season 4 has been too content to have most of its episode just be inconsequential fluff. Maybe I've been spoiled by S3's attempt to give each of its episodes at least some semblance of development, but it doesn't feel like the writers have anything interesting for these characters to do, despite the fact that one of them became a freaking princess. Pure Tara Strong hasn't had anything to work with this entire season. I probably should be enjoying the fluff for what it is, and I have been able to do just that with a few of said fluffy episodes, but the problem is that

2. The writing is decidedly less sharp overall. You have all these wonderfully complex characters and the writers keep resorting to the Mane Six's most basic traits for dialogue. Some writers known what they're doing (way to school the newbies, Amy Keaton Rogers), but we keep having to hear Dash use the word "awesome" when describing everything (mostly herself, of course), or Pinkie act like a total spaz out of nowhere, or Rarity try to relate literally every single event to fashion.

Seriously. Did anyone else know for a fact that she was gonna mention something dressmaking-related when they visited the breezy homeworld? Isn't it lovely when you can always predict what a character is going to do in a given situation? Every time?

3. STOP DOING EQG AND GIVE ME MY PONY MOVIE ALREADY, YOU CURS.

On that note, Hasbro not really understanding what they have on their hands is starting to get a bit annoying. No, I'm not one of those people who think the show should try to appeal exclusively to an older fanbase, because a show made for bronies is a terrifying prospect. I simply mean to say that Hasbro keeps harshing DHX's buzz with all these EQG's and breezies and what-nots. I don't think anybody would mind if they'd stop trying to alienate the majority of its fans.

4. More of a personal issue that I'm not sure if anyone else has, but it's bit too obvious when the writers are trying to distract us with something. Derpy Hooves is a wonderful force of cosmic good, not some secret weapon you can literally trot out when an episode is going south. That may work on some, but not me! You cannot bribe me with the confirmation that Time Turner actually is the Doctor; the breezies still suck eggs!

Also, I agree with the writer's mishandling Spike, but others shall fulfill that mission for me.

I didn't even notice number four, but I think you're right. Bulk and Derpy definitely were distractions, but I'm not too sure about Dr. Hooves in the Breezy episode, because let's face it if that was an attempt at a distraction it was piss-poor. Everyone called out the Breezification almost immediately after the episode aired, where as Rainbow Falls wasn't heavily criticized by the majority of the fandom until almost a week later (roughly when Voice of Reason's review aired).

Dark Qiviut · March 18, 2014

I can name a few more on my mind.

Twilight being shoehorned in season one. I don't think anyone will disagree on this. She was inserted in many episodes where she had no reason for it aside from writing the friendship report to Celestia. Look Before You Sleep, A Bird in the Hoof, Stare Master, Green Isn't Your Color, and The Show Stoppers all come to mind. (MrEnter accused Fall Weather Friends of shoehorning Twilight, although here, her inclusion is much more natural and settled more organically than the rest). But that was a season-one issue only. Following Lesson Zero, Twilight hasn't been shoehorned as much. Sisterhooves Social was the first FIM to not have Twilight involved, and it's easily one of the best in the show.
On the other hoof, since last season/late season two, we're now seeing the Mane Six in its entirety shoehorned too much, only worsening this season. Dragon Quest (Act 1 only), MMMystery on the Friendship Express, A Canterlot Wedding (although their roles were important, the Sidekick Five were pushed to the background), The Crystal Empire (same thing), Spike at Your Service (shoehorning Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie characters unnecessarily), Daring Don't, Rainbow Falls, Simple Ways, and It Ain't Easy Being Breezies. It's debatable if the Mane Six were shoehorned in Wonderbolts Academy, as Dash and Pinkie were the only ones with a purpose, yet had a reason to go.

One important thing season two did right wasn't shoehorn every single character all the time; if they were there, it was for a reason. AJ, AB, Rarity, SB in Sisterhooves Social. Pinkie and Cranky in AFiD (the others as cameos). Rarity, Pinkie, and Fluttershy in Putting Your Hoof Down. Dash, Fluttershy, Twilight, and Spike in Hurricane Fluttershy. Rarity, Dash, and Twilight in Dragon Quest (the others cameos). While not all did it right, the fact that S2 didn't fall for the "shoehorn-the-M6" trap should be a factor to tell the team not to plug in every single character lest it's mandatory.
Several stories didn't need the moral to be shoehorned. Bridle Gossip, Over a Barrel, The Cutie Mark Chronicles (then again, the story called this out, but it doesn't mean I'll give it a pass), Bats!, Castle Mane-ia, A Canterlot Wedding ("trusting your instincts" is valuable, but has no place to be uttered by Celly in the last minute), Spike at Your Service, Rainbow Falls (although Dash learned it herself, it was so clunky by how blunt it was), and Mare-Do-Well really shoved the morals in unnecessarily or too bluntly to a character who was too dumb to figure it out. If your episode didn't need a moral spelled out, leave it out. Otherwise, show, don't tell.

This is one thing season three did decently in. Magic Duel, Sleepless in Ponyville, Wonderbolts Academy, and Just for Sidekicks didn't spell out the morals via a report or journal. They figured it out and sometimes let us, the viewer, decipher it. But the one-shot to handle this the best was Pinkie Pride:

It keeps the morals ambiguous. You see Pinkie write the lessons she learned in the main journal, but you don't hear her recite them. By doing this, AKR and crew trust the audience into knowing what the morals are, don't let the morals interfere with the conflict, and inform how the lessons don't outweigh the each other.

It's also one of Maud Pie's strengths: The moral wasn't spelled out so bluntly nor reiterated in the journal. It was said once at the end, and that was it. (That said, the execution of said moral is another question, as the morals itself lacked focus, but that's another issue.)

If you ask me, the recited moral is no longer necessary, and it would be more interesting for the audience to figure it out themselves. By doing this, the writer trusts the audience into knowing what the lessons were.
As of this point, the Twilicorn hasn't been taken advantage of at all. When Magical Mystery Cure and Equestria Girls were released, Twilight's ascension was treated as the evolution of Friendship Is Magic. Instead, Twilight's ascension has played a very minimal role and sometimes pretended it doesn't exist. Yes, Twilight Time did reference it, but it came way too late. Personally, that should've swapped Flight to the Finish's place as the fifth episode this season.

So far, she's been the "I'm-right" or "I-have-the-solution" median for several of the episodes despite not having any business being there. If you're thinking, "Well, they've done this before," that's the problem. It's happened too much, and Twilight is simply a role-player instead of a character. IAEBB used Twilight, who was a background pony that episode, as a blatant DEM. Currently, the writers behave like they have no clue what to do with her.

Until the finale and EQG:RR where the Castle of the Royal Sisters becomes toy bait.
Far too many episodes skimp on Celestia's reasoning and background stories of the villain. Currently, the only two stories with the most told backgrounds are Nightmare Moon and Sombra. Discord's and Sunset's expositions were brief and told very little. From my revised review for Keep Calm and Flutter On:

Celestia in the beginning of the episode is out of character. She’s supposed to be portrayed as a wise, kind ruler with good judgment and good reasons for her motives. Her motive for having Discord redeemed is short, weak, and unconvincing, thereby making her look rather unintelligent. By default, the Mane Six should’ve questioned Celestia even more, but doing that would’ve sacrificed the short amount of time needed for Polsky to develop the script.
If you're going to have Celestia give a reason, make sure they're efficient and not shortened for time. It cheapens her character and makes her like an inept control freak.
Several characters are one-dimensional. Snips/Snails, Shining Armor, Cadance, Dash's bullies, the teenage dragons in Dragon Quest, the plothole ponies from the marketplace in Putting Your Hoof Down, DT/SS lately, Sombra, Flash Sentry, Jet Set, Upper Crust, Trenderhoof, and Sunset Shimmer are flat, one-note characters. If you're going to introduce a character, at least put in some effort to give them some dimension. Make them real. One-dimensionalizing a character makes them walking cardboard cutouts. They're not interesting and waste everyone's time. (Gilda is flat as well, but at least Morrow tried, and she's two-dimensional.)
For too often, when a character does really bad or stupid things, they don't get punished for it. When a character performs such a vulgar stunt, then she should suffer the equal amount of consequence followed by a resolution in response. Sometimes, the punishment (if there is any) doesn't fit the crime. To give you examples:

a. Babs Seed from One Bad Apple. Already explained this.

b. Rarity from Sweet & Elite. Here, Rarity decides to stay in Canterlot to attend the party over celebrating Twilight and her birthday party. To say the least, what she did was unbelievably cruel and didn't exactly have a good reason for it. S&E presented Rarity as very out of character. To make matters worse, when Rarity was confronted, she not only was forgiven, but was rewarded, and she was still able to keep her vile lies a secret. Just because she learned her lesson doesn't mean she shouldn't have been punished for it. Rarity should have been scolded, embarrassed, and shunned for her betrayal of trust.

c. The Cutie Mark Crusaders for poisoning Cheerilee and Big Mac. They realized how badly they screwed up and wanted to fix it so badly. Hell, they felt very guilty for doing this. I can agree that making them do Mac's chores is sufficient, but Cheerilee and BM rubbed salt in the wound by acting like the love poison never went away. It was cruel, disgusting, and out of character of Big Mac (for a while, he went into my hated character list before I smartened up), Cheerille (same here, except I never liked her that much in the first place), and the show.

d. Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon for coercing Babs Seed to bully the Cutie Mark Crusaders and mocking Scootaloo's inability to fly.

e. The Remane Five acting like hypocrites in TMMDW. If you want to get your point across, don't do the same thing and embarrass one of your closest friends behind her back. It was a disgusting act that NONE of the characters would ever do, and they were rewarded for their efforts.

f. Stalkerjack driving Apple Bloom so crazy, she decided to deliver the pies herself. The fact that AB had to do this in order for AJ to realize she was babying Apple Bloom was insufficiently stupid. Instead of AJ suffering the consequences of her actions, Apple Bloom's the one who will. Idiocy to the core.

g. Spitfire and Fleetfoot for being assholes and lying to both Soarin' and Rainbow Dash so she gets to be on the Cloudsdale team over him. They purposefully abandoned their closest teammate for no good, in-character reason. And what d'ya know it? It was all forgive and forget, and RF acted like it never happened. If you want Fleetfoot's and Spitfire's cruelty to hit, have them kicked out of the Cloudsdale team and replaced by other members, punished for violating the codes of the Wonderbolts, and have Soarin' temporarily end his friendship with them.

h. Pinkie Pie in Filli Vanilli, Apple Bloom in Bridle Gossip (leaving AJ for dead in the Everfree Forest), every one of the Mane Six sans Rarity in Ponyville Confidential (being massive hypocrites by endorsing the gossiping before turning around after realizing they were the victims of it), the Mane Six in Games Ponies Play (being stupid and out of character, only to get rewarded for their efforts), and Philomena in A Bird in the Hoof. No effective consequences for their bad behavior.

There needs to be more and more episodes where the characters suffer the consequences for their bad actions. If they do something bad and suffer the consequences, make sure it fits the crime and not to overdo it, or risk making it look abusive.

Examples of such punishments that fit the crime:

a. When the Remane Five trespassed the Castle of the Royal Sisters in Castle Mane-ia, they suffered from some darkly hilarious hijinks, including Fluttershy believing Angel was crushed by debris. Funny, yet disturbing.

b. Rarity in Sisterhooves Social is one of my all-time favorites that follow this demonstration and is slowly climbing up on my all-time favorite list as a result. She didn't pay any attention to Sweetie Belle, lost her cool, berated Sweetie, and didn't want to spend any quality time with her. As a result, their relationship was fractured, and Sweetie was too hurt to easily forgive her. When Rarity tried to say sorry, Sweetie didn't simply forgive and forget because she hurt her and wanted it to stick. Therefore, Rarity had to team up with Applejack to rectify it. By disguising herself as Applejack, Rarity was able to team up with Sweetie Belle and come in second. They forgive and forget, and Rarity learns a valuable lesson.

c. Because Suri took advantage of Rarity's generosity so vindictively, Rarity all but abandoned her biggest quality because she felt it made her look worthless and didn't want it to happen again. She got so involved into one-upping Suri in the Fashion Week contest, she didn't realize she took advantage of the Remane Five's effort. After realizing what she had done, she grew extremely upset and no longer cared about the show anymore. (God, that episode did SO much RIGHT! )

d. In Suited for Success, the Remane Five acted as clients within their respective personality perimeters, disregarding Rarity's sense for design in favor of what they wanted. In return, they got extremely embarrassed in front of Hoity Toity, and Rarity became a laughingstock. To remedy their misdeeds, they teamed up to complete Rarity's dress for the Grand Galloping Gala.

e. After Lightning Dust continued to disregard anyone's lives except her own (including nearly killing Dash's friends), she got demoted and kicked out. Although the original ending had Dust realizing what she'd done and gave the episode closure, Dust's actions would've been considered to be okay and not worthy of an expulsion. By emphatically ripping the leader badge from her uniform, Spitfire made the consequences stick. It was the more satisfying conclusion.

f. Applejack and Dash were at their (in-character) worst in Fall Weather Friends, trying to one-up each other and mocking Twilight for deciding to enter the Running of the Leaves. But by focusing on themselves, they didn't do what they were supposed to do, resulting in fighting and tying for last place. After their fight, they look like they got scraped badly, embarrassing themselves and realizing their big mistake. They learned a very hard lesson, and it worked deliciously well.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Dark Qiviut

Orablanco Account · March 18, 2014

I'm not too sure about Dr. Hooves in the Breezy episode.

Eh, that's probably more of personal thing than the fandom as a whole.

Seriously, you should have seen me last November.

FNGRpony · March 18, 2014

and yes it's a shame that spike gets no respect.

someone needs to write a grim dark with the guy. Kinda suprised that hasn't happened yet.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Artemis

DryGuy84 (Inactive) · March 18, 2014

I have a question for the community. Do you think the dialogue in MLP has become more redundant, recently? I personally don't think it has, but Digi has brought it up several times in his S4 Analyses/Diaries. In my opinion it has always been somewhat redundant (which isn't necessarily bad), but I suppose I can't tell. Does anyone else think it has?

Eh, that's probably more of personal thing than the fandom as a whole.

Seriously, you should have seen me last November.

Mystery Science Theater avatar? I think we'll get along swimmingly.

Never2muchpinkie · March 18, 2014

One Bad Apple addressed the concept of bullying, and boy, did it screw up. To get it out of the way, the song was fantastic and actually painted a plausible portrayal of bullying. But there are numerous problems.

a. DT and SS are flat, one-dimensional bullies again, nullifying the character growth from past seasons. If you're going to make the context convincing, don't hammer in one-dimensional personalities just to get the message across. It cheapens the whole presentation. (This issue is evident in Flight to the Finish, too.)

b. Applejack and the rest of the Apple family are incompetent because the bullying resulted in AB sleeping on the floor. If they had the competence and intelligence, they would've spotted it immediately and get to the bottom of things. The only reason they didn't was simply because "the plot says so." It's annoyingly contrived.

c. The pace in itself is sloppy, going way too fast. Take the time to address the issue of bullying. Don't rush it to finish the plot.

d. The entire idea that the CMCs are bullies themselves because they got sick and tired of being bullied and decided to fight back. No, that's NOT bullying. They wanted to defend themselves because they were sick and tired of being pushed around, and they wanted Babs to know exactly how it feels. "Don't act against a bully because doing so makes you as bad as a bully" is a terrible moral!

e. The fact that Babs Seed became a sadistic bully because she was bullied in Manehattan was excused in the script. That's NO excuse for bullying!

f. One Bad Apple paints a one-size-fits-all method to combat bullying, which is to come to AJ (or any other adult) in case of bullies (something SB suggested several times earlier!). That doesn't always work because some don't care, while some adults enable the bullying or are the bully. Bullying is a very difficult subject to address because it's so multi-layered, and it's very important to address it sensitively.

To make it worse, Babs Seed not only wasn't punished. She was basically rewarded for her immoral behavior. You don't screw up a very sensitive subject. You know what happens if you do? You could cause a reverse effect and enable this kind of behavior. The sorry way OBA's story and moral were written could also put kids in serious danger. It's victim-shaming at its finest, and it's disgusting!

A: I can maybe understand Silver Spoon, who clapped at Granny Smith's family appreciation day, but when did DT EVER get character development?

B: Applebloom sleeping on the floor wouldn't necessarily set off any red flags. Applejack: Oh, you're lettin' your cousin take yer bed while she's here? That's so sweet a you fer givin it up to her.

D: I disagree with you on this point. Haven't you ever heard of the cycle of revenge? DT was a bully, which got BS to be a bully, which got AB S and SB to be bullies. As you say there isn't a one size fit all solution for being bullied, but are you trying to say that sinking down to a bullies level would have been the better moral here? Is that a BETTER thing to encourage children to do? Standing up to a bully ISN'T wrong, but the method in which they tried to do it was. Now this is a kids show, so we see the worst that happened was the CMC wound up in a mud puddle, and the same would have happened to Babs if they didn't push her out, but who knows what may have actually happened to her in a real life similar situation.You seem to be saying that the CMC were in the right, but that's saying what you should do when you're bullied is publically humiliate your bully in front of everyone, which would make them no better.

E: While this may not change your mind on anything, I wonder if you might take five minutes to watch a review of this episode by Digibrony. (The actual vid is almost nine minutes but only the first five minutes are about the actual review) He does address some of the issues you speak of. As he points out "If this was a more realistic show than there would have been a lot more ambiguity and a lot less resolution but this is MLP and I don't expect it to be completely true to life."

OptimisticNeighsayer · March 18, 2014

A: I can maybe understand Silver Spoon, who clapped at Granny Smith's family appreciation day, but when did DT EVER get character development?

B: Applebloom sleeping on the floor wouldn't necessarily set off any red flags. Applejack: Oh, you're lettin' your cousin take yer bed while she's here? That's so sweet a you fer givin it up to her.

D: I disagree with you on this point. Haven't you ever heard of the cycle of revenge? DT was a bully, which got BS to be a bully, which got AB S and SB to be bullies. As you say there isn't a one size fit all solution for being bullied, but are you trying to say that sinking down to a bullies level would have been the better moral here? Is that a BETTER thing to encourage children to do? Standing up to a bully ISN'T wrong, but the method in which they tried to do it was. Now this is a kids show, so we see the worst that happened was the CMC wound up in a mud puddle, and the same would have happened to Babs if they didn't push her out, but who knows what may have actually happened to her in a real life similar situation.You seem to be saying that the CMC were in the right, but that's saying what you should do when you're bullied is publically humiliate your bully in front of everyone, which would make them no better.

E: While this may not change your mind on anything, I wonder if you might take five minutes to watch a review of this episode by Digibrony. (The actual vid is almost nine minutes but only the first five minutes are about the actual review) He does address some of the issues you speak of. As he points out "If this was a more realistic show than there would have been a lot more ambiguity and a lot less resolution but this is MLP and I don't expect it to be completely true to life."

Let me try to defend DQ here:

A. If you've read any of his other reviews, you'd know that he praises episodes like "Twilight Time" where DT is seen as more than just a vehicle to deliver the "blank flank" taunt or just being a bully in general. (And "Ponyville Confidential" is another good example of DT being more than just a bully. Manipulative, yes, but at least she had respect for the CMC acting as Gabby Gums.)

B. Really, you wouldn't find it strange that someone who has a bed is suddenly sleeping on the floor? Besides, he doesn't think AJ would necessarily see that as a random act of kindness. Presumably she'd care about her sister than her cousin more.

D. Even if the CMC went about it in the wrong way, young children aren't necessarily going to take that as a nuance to inform their own actions. They'll think "every time I try to go against a bully, I'll always become a bully myself!" And he's hardly saying that having the CMC completely upend the bully and not be punished for it would have been a good idea either.

---

As for the original question, I'd say that even though the show has always had its share of plot-influenced rather than character-influenced episodes, it's starting to show more often, more obviously, and less satisfyingly.

Edited March 18, 2014 by OptimisticNeighsayer

Never2muchpinkie · March 18, 2014

B. Really, you wouldn't find it strange that someone who has a bed is suddenly sleeping on the floor? Besides, he doesn't think AJ would necessarily see that as a random act of kindness. Presumably she'd care about her sister than her cousin more.

It would end up the same way regardless. If Applejack thought it was strange AB was on the floor Babs would give her a threatening look behind AJ's back and AB would just say she allowed her cousin to take the bed so as not to be a snitch.

As for your last part I personally don't agree with it because of the way I am.

Honestly, I think I enjoy the show more than most because I don't put a ton of thought into every single thing. I take each episode and judge it only on how much I enjoyed it. None of the episodes are perfect, but none of the writers are either so it's fine with me. I think I may be the only person who had NO problems with Equestria girls, and still really didn't on a second viewing, mainly because I leave the in-depth analysis and things I miss to people who have more time and patience than I do to sort through the dirt.

Dark Qiviut · March 18, 2014

@@Never2muchpinkie:

a. DT got significant character development in Ponyville Confidential.

In this episode, Diamond Tiara was by far the best written character, and she nearly stole it. In her previous two episodes and One Bad Apple, she was mostly the rich bitch and/or typical schoolyard bully. Ponyville Confidential gave her significant character development that evolved her into a three-dimensional antagonist. Diamond Tiara was manipulative, business-like, and SMART. She strategized in this episode and knew how to get what she wanted when she wanted. She was a bully who wanted to display her sense of business and storytelling and manipulated the Cutie Mark Crusaders to do her dirty work.

Another part of what made Diamond Tiara extremely believable was how she was her father's spitting image on the other side of the scale. You can tell she had Filthy Rich's blood and capability to create a business strategy here, thus providing ample opportunity for the writers to evolve her character.

It's a damn shame this side of her character hasn't been explored since.

You don't need to slowly make an evil character good to give character development. You just need to give the character a good reason for his or her actions. Ponyville Confidential developed Diamond Tiara as an antagonist with similar ambition to her father's, but opposite him.

b. You're dead wrong here. Both Babs and Apple Bloom were supposed to share the room together. To have Apple Bloom sleep on an unkempt pile of hay in the far corner of the room instead of next to it with only a magazine or newspaper to cover herself would raise eyebrows from anyone, much less her peers. They know Apple Bloom very well and wouldn't ignore peculiar situations surrounding her for no good reasons. Chances are they could've shown up at some point to see how both of them were doing in Apple Bloom's room, and in the morning interrogate them. If not, they would've shown up in her room when they're not home, witness the chaos, and then interrogate them.

If any one of Apple Bloom's guardians had a Celestia-given brain, they would've investigated the matter immediately. Does it mean they'll find anything? No. But not getting involved is irresponsible of them. If anything, it makes Babs look worse.

d. To quote from the episode's transcript:

Scootaloo: So that's why she jumped in when Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon started giving us a hard time.

Apple Bloom: She didn't want to be bullied like at home, so she decided to be a bully instead!

Sweetie Belle: And now we've turned into bullies too!

Cutie Mark Crusaders: What do we do?!

Apple Bloom: Y'see Babs, we were tryin' to get you back for bein' a big bully...

Scootaloo: But then Applejack told us about how you were being bullied back in Manehattan.

Sweetie Belle: And we figured out you were just doing it to avoid getting picked on in Ponyville. But, by then... we were the ones being bullies. And... Oh, why does life have to be so ironic?!

In both exchanges, the Cutie Mark Crusaders excused Babs's bullying. They didn't want to tell Applejack because they feared to be tattletales (despite Sweetie suggesting multiple times), which is understandable. Her pushing them around all week ate them up. Feeling they had nowhere useful to go, they wanted to fight back because they were absolutely sick and tired of it. They decided to defend themselves without thinking ahead.

Publicly humiliating anyone is absolutely wrong. I don't care if it's the one who was bullied or the one who bullied. That does nothing. But the way One Bad Apple portrays the bullying problem in four ways:

How fighting back and defending yourself from bullying is wrong, period.
If you tell a grownup, the bullying problem will go away very quickly.
If you ever stand up to a bully in any way and fight back against a bully, that makes you the bully.
Because Babs was bullied, she's given the license to bully the Cutie Mark Crusaders emotionally and physically. And OBA doesn't even hide it.

You see where One Bad Apple's problems lie now? OBA paints a one-size-fits-all solution. It's unrealistic, and bullying never goes away in the blink of an eye. Like a person's fingerprint, no two situations of bullying are ever the same, and none of them are solved the same way. In real life, some bullies pack weapons that can kill you instantly. If any bullied child ever puts this botched moral into practice, they can be put in serious danger.

Do you want to know how to portray bullying in a more realistic light? Have the Cutie Mark Crusaders tell Applejack, but have her not believe them because it's typically implausible for any child who was mercilessly bullied would suddenly become one. Then teeter the perspectives back and forth from the kids to Applejack. Have AJ feel guilty for not believing them earlier and punish Babs, DT, and SS for their bullying.

Hell, when a fanfic following the timeline of OBA portrays the consequences of bullying better than OBA, you're doing something wrong.

There's already one episode to explicitly show the severe consequences of bullying plausibly: the episode she wrote prior, Hurricane Fluttershy! It provided the backstory to Fluttershy's personality, transforming her from simply shy to psychologically broken and in need of long-term repair. Not only were the consequences shown. It was shown realistically.

e. There's a much better review that counteracts this (specifically from the 4:30 mark onward):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXDAzT355Tc&feature=youtu.be&t=4m32s

And as for this:

As he points out "If this was a more realistic show than there would have been a lot more ambiguity and a lot less resolution but this is MLP and I don't expect it to be completely true to life."

I won't sugarcoat it. Digibro's statement's bullshit! Being "MLP:FIM" doesn't excuse Morrow of skirting over a precious, gray subject. If you're going to tackle bullying, make sure you know what you're doing, and do it right. One method is to never excuse Babs's evil behavior like what Morrow did throughout OBA and not utilize an archaic solution to solve bullying. It doesn't matter how much it's defended. One Bad Apple is badly executed and factually one of the worst episodes in the show for screwing up SO badly. (If you want my list, One Bad Apple and Bridle Gossip share the top spot for worst FIM episode [with the censored version of The Last Roundup somewhere in the bottom five, but that's a different topic].)

Like what I wrote before, FIM has a track record of addressing a sensitive, real-life subject and screwing up, sometimes horribly. Bridle Gossip and One Bad Apple are the two worst cases; when AKR and Morrow screwed up, they didn't try to fix it. The writing was so horrific, the scripts deserved to be shredded and sent back to the drawing board for a better rough draft. Once more, if you're going to address a sensitive subject, address it correctly and tell it like it is. Don't use it as a lame gimmick for a moral, address a complicated one as black and white like bullying (when bullying is grayer than the grayscale), throw in poor vocabulary and dialogue, use one-dimensional bullies to cheaply address a sensitive subject like Scootaloo's possible disability, sloppily sugarcoat it, and lackadaisically research.

No skirting. No excuses. Do it, and do it correctly.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Dark Qiviut

Never2muchpinkie · March 18, 2014

Y'know, I understand some of your points, even if I disagree with them, but I think the big issue is that I can't address things with a neutral mind. After all, I just recently finished up a fanfic where the CMC go to Manehatten to visit Babs and confront her old school bully and she learns to speak up for herself, so clearly I have a bias here. That doesn't mean that I think Babs was in the right for her horrible behavior, but I can't help but be softer on her for it. If you'd like her to be "properly" punished than watch Seed no evil from the FIW series, where they use dark magic to make Babs go blind.

One thing about his review that I think you can at least agree on is that the second half put way too much time portaying her as a smug jerkass who was loving every minute of picking on them, and not enough time showing any regret for it, which is another area where the show dropped the ball and makes her later sudden guilt seem a bit forced.

I guess it's because I don't have any kids but do young children really put that much stock into value's episodes like this?

Besides that I'll check out the links when I get a chance. I'm an overnight worker so it's almost my bedtime.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Never2muchpinkie

DryGuy84 (Inactive) · March 18, 2014

@@Dark Qiviut

What do you think of Digi's statement that the dialogue has become significantly more redundant this season?

Edited March 18, 2014 by DryColt84

Dark Qiviut · March 18, 2014

@, Honestly, I don't know. If you ask me, it's been a very common problem in the series dating back to Friendship Is Magic, Act 2. It may be a trap to say this, but you're seeing this critique now because we're in season four, and parts of the long-standing issues are coming more into the light. Furthermore, there are too many S4 episodes where the ensemble had no reason to be there, and some of the redundant dialogue lately is cringeworthy.

DryGuy84 (Inactive) · March 18, 2014

@, Honestly, I don't know. If you ask me, it's been a very common problem in the series dating back to Friendship Is Magic, Act 2. It may be a trap to say this, but you're seeing this critique now because we're in season four, and parts of the long-standing issues are coming more into the light. Furthermore, there are too many S4 episodes where the ensemble had no reason to be there, and some of the redundant dialogue lately is cringeworthy.

No, I disagree with Digi, as I stated earlier. I just was curious as to what you thought about it.

Geek0zoid · March 18, 2014

One issue is a character's attitude in certain levels. Every now and again, we see a character or two go completely out of character and act either stupid, mean, oblivious, or a combination of them, mostly because the plot demands it.

Another is Spike. He's the one with the most jokes, and I see him more as a comic relief more than an actual character. I get it, characters like him are meant to be funny, but he's probably the main character out of all of them with the least amount of development.

Katana · March 19, 2014

Wow, I'm actually surprised at some of the episodes people have harsh opinions about. I actually kind of feel like given the EXTREME difficulty of tackling an episode about bullying, their episode did it really well. They obviously touched on the more direct point ("Tell your parents/teacher, you idiot.") but also gave perhaps a lesson that's usually overlooked - bullies are people too. I refuse to believe that playing pranks on someone in revenge is in any way "defending" yourself. When those three decided to react that way, they became bullies themselves - the very same way that most people become bullies. They became tired of other people's crap, and took it out violently.

I guess I will admit, I never worried myself much about Spike's character or inconsistencies. There's definitely an the "idiot ball" or "monkey wrench" or whatever the TV trope is, and it usually shifts to him. It has gone to other characters though, usually Twilight or Pinkie - but I don't really have too much of a problem with one character being comic relief when they do it well.

Keep in mind that so much of the show's humor can't exist without some amount of carelessness on the part of the characters. If everyone were perfectly caring, perfectly considerate, and perfectly aware of everyone else's feelings, the show would be happy forever and no one would ever enter interesting conflict. Yes, once in a while, someone acts a bit out of character for the purposes of putting everyone on the same side for one episode, and I kinda view that as an acceptable break from reality. I guess it does become more difficult when you're VERY attached to the characters.

BUT, I can't make it through one post without highlighting my one very firm grievance against the show's biggest anti-moral episode! The "Discord Returns" episode - or whatever it was called.

Has anyone ever heard a story of a housewife who puts up with an abusive husband, night after night after night? Who loves him no matter how often he comes home drunk, refuses to find employment, and just turns on the TV and orders her to make him a sandwich? When her sleepless eyes look away as she assures you that "Eventually he'll come around", do you believe him, or do you just think she's being swayed and mistreated?

Investing the whole of yourself into someone who doesn't love you back is nothing but poison for your life. No one can, or should, fault you for trying and being accepting - but there's a point where you HAVE to draw the line - for your own sake. It's always possible to welcome someone back, but it has to start from their side. Evil people can change, but you can't will it to happen through friendly comfort.

Never2muchpinkie · March 19, 2014

e. After Lightning Dust continued to disregard anyone's lives except her own (including nearly killing Dash's friends), she got demoted and kicked out. Although the original ending had Dust realizing what she'd done and gave the episode closure, Dust's actions would've been considered to be okay and not worthy of an expulsion. By emphatically ripping the leader badge from her uniform, Spitfire made the consequences stick. It was the more satisfying conclusion.

Well, I'm back to debate little more with you. Given your statements about this episode as well as OBA you make it clear you want punishment for bad things, and even say so in the top of of your statement. I'm not saying that being bad should be seen as okay, but this is another one I can't fully agree on with you. Lightning Dust was basically RD but without a moral compass. RD wants to be the best too, but she won't throw other ponies down to use them as a stepping stool to greatness.

But what exactly is so wrong with the original ending? Again, I'm not saying everyone should just ignore what LD did, but if nearly killing the Mane 5 finally made her realize how selfish and reckless she was being,and was genuinely remorseful and apologetic and resolved to change her ways than that is character development by learning from your mistakes, which is basically the point of half of the episodes of MLP. So I don't see it as exactly a negative. If she learned her lesson and still got kicked out that doesn't set a good example either. It could be seen as more realistic as even if you regret doing something not everyone will always forgive, but if you make an attempt to fix something and no one acknowledges it and only sees the negative it doesn't exactly make the person WANT to make the change stick.

You know, in going back and rereading your original post I see you flat out said about Rarity(paraphrased), "I don't care if she learned her lesson. I want some punishment, damn it." You know, you talk about how bullying is not black and white, but with lots of grey. And that's how it is with life too. Sometimes we can get away with things because no one figures out the truth. To have every episode with someone doing something bad end with an equally appropriate comeuppance would just not be realistic.

I disagree with you on your assessment for that one as well, that Rarity should have been shamed and embarrassed for it all. I think it worked out better as is. I think it's excusable, not RIGHT, excusable for Rarity's actions in that episode. There will always be more birthday party's. You have a birthday once a year after all, but she felt that her life's dream was on the brink of coming true, so her putting work over friends isn't a huge stretch. If it had went the way you suggested Rarity would have been caught in her lies and have to beg for forgiveness. The way the episode actually went she was faced with a choice at the end, to choose to stay with her life's work or her friends. And she choose her friends, fully expecting it to mean she would be forever be seen as just an uncultured country pony. She CHOSE to stick with her friends rather than it being forced into an apology. You want to tell me you've never done anything really selfish and gotten away with it?

In regards to OBA you brought up bullying being excused in the script. But keep in mind WHO was saying it , and WHY? The CMC are all kids, and thus have simpler notions of right and wrong and forgiveness and blah blah. So it makes perfect sense that they would easily forgive Babs. You can call it victim-shaming, but it doesn't change the fact that their method of standing up for themselves was vengeance on a large scale, which was to terrify Babs(which I'll call turnabout is fair play on that point) and make a grand fool out of her in front of the whole town when the float crashed. However, like I said in my earlier post, that could have led to her getting seriously hurt. When the CMC made the transition from being the victims of abuse to concocting revenge plots they stopped being in the right, and neither of them were fully in the right or wrong for it.

While I'll fully agree that telling an adult won't always stop bullying, it's always a good place to start. The alternative is either ignoring it, silently suffering, or trying to handle it on your own, and we saw how maturely they handled that when they tried it.

How fighting back and defending yourself from bullying is wrong, period.
If you ever stand up to a bully in any way and fight back against a bully, that makes you the bully.

That is wrong. What they did wasn't simple defending themselves. If the three of them had stood up to Babs and told her we ain't taking any more of your crap and maybe got a little physical like a shove or push to show they're serious, than it would be perfectly excusable. But, again, they went way overboard to that and endangered her life. Like I said before, revenge doesn't make them any better. It's a cycle. Babs was tired of getting bullied, so she bullied the CMC. The CMC got tired of being bullied, so they became bullies as well.

OBA paints a one-size-fits-all solution. It's unrealistic, and bullying never goes away in the blink of an eye. Like a person's fingerprint, no two situations of bullying are ever the same, and none of them are solved the same way. In real life, some bullies pack weapons that can kill you instantly. If any bullied child ever puts this botched moral into practice, they can be put in serious danger.

I don't exactly get this. If bullies are packing deadly weapons, than confronting them is a bad move if you don't know what they're fully capable of. In that light, if you actually applied the moral the show presented, tell an adult, than it would be the RIGHT move. So how is that going to put them in serious danger?

Edited March 19, 2014 by Never2muchpinkie

Dark Qiviut · March 20, 2014

If everyone were perfectly caring, perfectly considerate, and perfectly aware of everyone else's feelings, the show would be happy forever and no one would ever enter interesting conflict. Yes, once in a while, someone acts a bit out of character for the purposes of putting everyone on the same side for one episode, and I kinda view that as an acceptable break from reality.

That logic holds no water and handwaves obvious writing flaws. If you must write the characters out of character, stupid, and/or incompetent for no reason other than to jam in humor, then you're writing humor at a level equivalent to anime fanservice, flatulence jokes, or dated pop culture references. Cheap humor. Lazy, careless writing isn't cute or funny. No humor, yet writing the characters as competent, in-character beings is the better choice (and frankly makes BETTER entertainment).

———

@@Never2muchpinkie, What makes the original draft of the ending bad was that, despite wrapping up Wonderbolts Academy snugly, it doesn't accurately paint a picture of how wrong Lightning Dust's actions were. Firstly, she lacked regard for anypony's life other than her own. To have her personality switched up with just a snap makes no sense, especially in a military academy where gross misconduct can get you in a world of trouble. The aired ending demonstrated how this kind of stupidity cannot and should not be tolerated. Like what Spitfire paraphrased, "Push yourself in the right direction." Dash did that, Dust didn't. Even if Dust learned her lesson, a demotion isn't a worthy enough punishment, for it puts little weight on her recklessness during the training exercise. Being stripped of her captaincy bluntly and shown the door was factually the better move.

Ironically, WA's conclusion exemplifies one of the series's big problems. To quote :

One thing that annoys me about this show is how "I am sorry" is a near universal get out of jail free card and I am not just talking about minor things which is a bit more understandable but even for some of the more serious stuff.

I disagree with him strongly on punishing Twilight in Lesson Zero. The fact that she forgot one of her biggest assignments drove her into an insane level of paranoia, which made her not think straight and clouded her judgment. The way her friends sans Spike responded (laughing at/from her predicament) didn't help matters, either. By this, she got very desperate and wanted to complete the assignment on time. Celestia had every reason to be upset, but the paranoia building up inside Twilight to the point of insanity was more than enough punishment for her; any more would be overkill.

One of the best ways to create a great story is to have the characters (while in character) get rewarded for good things and punished for bad things. In plausible writing writing fashion:

Good, noble deeds lead to rewards.
Dangerous, disobedient, or stupid stunts lead to punishment.

By going along this route, you help create a satisfying story where the characters learn their lessons. When the characters are rewarded, not punished enough, or punished too much for their misdeeds, then it's just way too unsatisfactory and makes the resolution very hollow.

As far as the scripted punishment is concerned, one very important thing in any form of storytelling is to address a situation where a character is performing anything that's dangerous, disobedient, stupid, or wrong. Once they commit a wrong, call them out and make sure the character learns the consequences. I'm not talking about having the character realize it, say "sorry," forgive and forget, and that's that if that's not sufficient. Sometimes saying sorry and learning the lesson aren't enough. Tell the audience these actions are wrong by making the characters receive actual consequences for their actions.

Friendship Is Magic often lacks this. When the characters behave badly, the end of it all isn't always plausible or satisfactory. Sometimes, there is little proper reward for performing a good deed or satisfactory punishment for doing something wrong. Occasionally, the only way for him to learn his lesson is by writing him out of character simply for the sake of the plot; Just for Sidekicks, Bridle Gossip, Rainbow Falls, MMMystery, May the Best Pet Win!, and TMMDW all highlight this.

Currently, one of the few times in the entire series where someone didn't receive sufficient punishment worked is Suri Polomare losing the contest and Coco as her assistant in Rarity Takes Manehattan. We don't see anything else happen to her, but on the flipside, Rarity and Coco Pommel receive significant gains for the right reasons.

Like I wrote earlier, just because a character learns her lesson doesn't mean she shouldn't have received consequences. In Sweet & Elite episode, she outwardly lied to the elite AND her friends, used the lesson from Party of One and trust of her own friends as an out, continued to abandon her friends because she believed the elite were more important, and wasn't convincing in her excuses nor justification of them.

McCarthy wasn't subtle at all in the "Liar Revealed" trope nor Rarity's lies and betrayals. Her vacation in Canterlot plus acquaintance with Fancy Pants were fine, but once she lied, it was morally wrong, even by her standards. And she kept going about it. When she was given another chance to rectify it (a.k.a., the letter and later the Remane Five sans Spike showing up in Canterlot to celebrate), she still willingly chose the elite over her friends and used Twilight's trust and lesson from Party of One for her own selfish gain. This continuous bouncing around is contrived and out of character of Rarity, even in S2 standards, simply to make her learn her lesson. When confronted about it, she said the R5 are her friends and got rewarded for it, period.

How did she get the best possible outcome? Here's a comment from a user named RaincloudBoom in EQD's "Sweet & Elite" countdown post:

I have a problem with this episode. When a character chooses the option the audience knows is wrong, the best possible outcome ought henceforth to be unattainable. Even Rarity knew she was choosing the morally wrong path when she put herself and her status above her friends. Yet she chose to betray and abandon them multiple times. Even when given a second chance, by her friend MOVING THE PARTY TO CANTERLOT for specifically her and her alone benefit, she decided the elite were more important, and abandoned them yet again. She only kept returning to hide that she was ever missing. Thanks to Party of One's lesson, Twilight jumps to the most generous possible conclusion, which Rarity uses as an out. Then the five ponies who destroyed the Grand Galloping Gala crash the second most important and exclusive party of the year, and proceed to make a mess of things. Finally the backstabber has to choose whether to stab them in the front. She does not and is granted the best possible outcome.

The fact that she did not make the final most damning betrayal does not erase her previous betrayals. Yet she end up with the BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME! Had she stayed home to work on the dress, she'd have not become important, and Twilight would have disliked the dress. Had she gone home on time, she'd have lost her elite status by missing the Garden Party, she'd have completed the dress which Twilight wouldn't have liked, but she'd have made it to the pony who got her a castle suite's birthday party on time. Had she not half drowned her cat, her ruse would have been discovered. Had she stayed at Twilight''s party, she'd have missed the Garden Party with the elites. Had she come clean when they realized she'd been there, she'd have lost her friends' trust. Had she stopped them from crashing the party, she'd have been questioned about her own seeming to crash it. And finally, had she pretended not to know them, either she'd have lost her friends/severely damaged their friendship while maintaining status with the Canterlot Elite, or Worst Case Scenario, her friends would reveal their relationship, and she'd be rejected by both the elite and the friends she attempted to disown.

Every choice but the final one was morally questionable at best. But due to Fancy Pants being unequinely perfect, she keeps her friends, she keeps her status, she keeps her betrayal secret, and she gets a ton of orders for her shop for terribly plain dresses that take no effort, and can literally be completed in ten seconds flat. Zero penalties and every possible benefit by choosing the bad option every time but the last.

If the scenario was much more plausible, she would've been called out by both the Remane Five and Canterlot elite for her actions. She would be interrogated for lying to her friends, Fancy Pants, et al and using their word for her own gain. If there's one way to lose trust and status, it's by blatantly lying and betraying trust. With that, Twilight's party would end, and her reputation as an important pony is forever ruined. Plus, Canterlot would look like a city with integrity over a community full of mostly sheep. Instead, she keeps her betrayal a secret, is rewarded for basically every bold-faced lie from beginning to end, and is able to do part-time business with Canterlot. Sure, she learns her lesson — "wherever you go, your friends matter more" — but receives no sensible consequences. Not by the writer. Not by the canon.

Simply put, "What I'm doing is wrong. I know it's wrong. But I'm gonna do it, anyway." She had ZERO excuses for her actions; "this being a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity" is not one of them.

So what would've been a much better plausible scenario? Here's one option.

After "Becoming Popular," Rarity and Celestia converse about Twilight's party and Rarity's newfound status. Suddenly, Atlas hands Rarity an envelope from Jet Set and Upper Crust about the Canterlot Garden Party, which would take place the same day as Twilight's birthday party. Rarity is in a dilemma: choose the party and possibly be a bigger name there, yet disappoint Twilight and herself; or Twilight's birthday and show how much she loves her friends, yet risk losing her status in Canterlot. Celestia tells her to follow her heart and tell the truth. She can't go along the path like declaring how Dash trained the Wonderbolts. Yet, whichever she chooses, Celestia understands, and Celestia's sure they'll understand back.

But Rarity still can't choose, so she goes to JS/UC, even though she's still a little apprehensive due to their initial insults, and Fancy Pants is there, too. JS and UC insult about Twilight's (and Ponyville's) status, and Rarity scolds them for it. They may not know nor care much about Ponyville life, but it doesn't give them the right to insult them. If this keeps up, she'll decline the invitation. Realizing their error, they compromise: invite Twilight and friends to attend the Garden Party. As Fancy Pants himself is delighted to meet her Ponyville friends, he gives them a better idea: Twilight can celebrate her birthday at the Canterlot Garden Party. Rarity likes it, leading to a new dilemma: Twilight's dress is still only in the planning stage, and it'll take several hours to complete due to its multiple parts. The last regal party they went to, the GGG, was fun, yet a mess. Plus, the others don't have dresses, either.

But before she gets to start, Twilight and crew (plus Spike) show up, informing her about the invitations they received the evening before. Rarity is a little uncomfortable, but Twilight likes the bland dress as is. Rarity apologizes for not making it like what she wanted because she was busy around Canterlot, but Twilight and others are okay. That leads Twilight into putting on the dress and venturing to the Canterlot Garden Party, where it was dark. Suddenly, a loud "surprise" wishing Twilight a happy birthday. They comment about Twilight's simple dress, one being a surprise instead of disgust (from Upper Crust). Fleur and Fancy Pants, though, are delighted; Upper Crust smartens up, and they discuss their passions and adventures with no problems after. The elite in Canterlot communicate amicably with the others, and Jet Set talks to Rainbow Dash about her training the Wonderbolts; after a wink from Rarity, Dash runs with it before slowly skirting away from the issue. As the party reaches to a close, Fancy asks Rarity if she can make some more dresses similar to Twilight's (plus the dress she truly wanted to make) as a limited edition for Canterlot, who agrees. Write a lesson about sometimes being honest in yourself is more important than lying in order to get the best possible outcome (with the subtle one about how friends come from all walks of life in various incomes, whether it's the simplest towns like Ponyville or the rich elites like Canterlot). You resolve the conflict and have Rarity learn a lesson withOUT making Rarity out of character, converting Canterlot's elite into mostly walking stereotypes, and using the transparent contrivance.

———

And now we lead back to OBA. I agree that revenge isn't the best option, and that's something the CMC did right. They realized the error of their ways and saved Babs. But if you and @@Katana believe that taking a stand against the pony who physically bullied them is actual bullying, you're kidding yourselves. There's a really big difference between a previously bullied kid bullying innocent kids and the bullied kid taking a stand against their tormentor in response to being constantly stalked, harassed, and assaulted up to this point.

With how the script's language states, because they took a stand against the one who'd bullied them, they're being bullies, too. That moral is dangerous, because you're telling people young and old how it's morally wrong to stand up to a bully, especially if perhaps the last possible way to stand up to one is to fight back. It's especially bad to children who're bullied or will be bullied in the future and don't know how to defend against a bully.

So what if the bully brandishes a weapon like a knife, gun, screwdriver, mace, or closed fist? Well, the present moral says, "If you defend yourself against a violent bully who carries weapons, you're just as bad as the bully." So, out of embarrassment and shame, this'll make some kids not want to fight them. Anyone who comprehends the implications of bullying and has done whatever they can to curb the bullying (including standing up to yourself so he or she doesn't torment you again) should feel disgusted that this moral, much less its implications, exists.

Now, to quote what I wrote earlier:

But the way One Bad Apple portrays the bullying problem in four ways:

How fighting back and defending yourself from bullying is wrong, period.

If you tell a grownup, the bullying problem will go away very quickly.

If you ever stand up to a bully in any way and fight back against a bully, that makes you the bully.

Because Babs was bullied, she's given the license to bully the Cutie Mark Crusaders emotionally and physically. And OBA doesn't even hide it.

I already called out points one and three. Let's get to the second.

Telling a grownup first is something you should always do when facing a bully. By telling a grownup, you have power over the bully. The fear of being tattletales is completely normal, but when repeating it so many times (ala Spike telling Twilight in Boast Busters to use her magic), it plods the plot.

But there are other big problems with it, and this is where you really misconstrued my point and made OBA even weaker.

Apple Bloom's peers are incompetent. During Babs's stay in Sweet Apple Acres, she kicked Apple Bloom out of her bed and forced her to sleep in a pile of hay far away from her bed with only a newspaper to keep herself warm. That's negligent and abusive, and anyone who saw this would've investigated it immediately. It makes absolutely no sense for Granny Smith, Applejack, or Big Mac to not notice or ignore a black dot in a sea of white for apparently several days. Also, plenty of the abuse the CMCs suffered took place in Sweet Apple Acres beyond being kicked out of bed, like the smashed pumpkin, eviction from the clubhouse, and all of the apples/banana peel on the ground at the end of the music video. Hell, the rest of the rest of the Mane Six might've noticed such a pattern of bullying as a result of the chaos Babs and the CMCs left behind.
Just before the end of Act 2, the episode excuses Babs's behavior and reveals the reason why:

Apple Bloom: Heartache?

Applejack: Well, I didn't say nothin' 'cause I didn't want her to feel singled out, but there's been some bullies back in Manehattan just been teasin' her to pieces for her blank flank.

Emphasis mine.

a. It's contrived. AJ didn't say it simply to serve the plot, and OBA didn't hide it.

b. It's outrageously incompetent of Applejack. Because the only reason Babs is in Ponyville is to get away from the bullying, it would've been very important for Applejack to tell Apple Bloom, Sweetie, and Scootaloo about it. Basically, watch what they do and say around her because the bullying may've hurt her psyche. Make her feel welcome and not uneasy. Like I said, if she didn't tell them ahead of time, then OBA's original script would've fallen apart.

c. From the script's point of view, AJ passively excuses Babs for bullying, even though she obviously isn't. I'll discuss the excuse later.
From the transcript again:

Applejack: Y'know, this all could've been avoided if y'all just came to me in the very beginning.

In other words, "Come to an adult, and your bullying problem will permanently go away. You won't have to worry about him or her bullying you anymore."

Yes, telling a grownup is the first thing to do when bullied, but bullying almost never ends there. Even if telling a grownup about being bullied does solve it, you could have your friends and other adults shun you or perhaps be just as bad as the bullies if they side with the bully instead of the bullied. Plus, there are so many examples of people who have or had suffered from the effects of bullying, and the adults in their lives couldn't or wouldn't do anything to curb the problem. Hell, some have been driven to suicide due to their peers being unable or doing nothing to stop the bullies.

In OBA, this dangerous moral falls very flat. Firstly, AJ doesn't do shit to stop it nor has seen anything despite how the CMC have been tortured in SAS's front lawn. Secondly, an Apple member has been around when Diamond Tiara is around to bully Apple Bloom. She never attempted to end it because her father is very loyal to them and needs money to keep the farm running. Thirdly, even after Applejack suggested the CMCs to tell her, she does NOTHING when Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon bully them at the train station (resulting in the contrived ending of Babs standing up to them).

There are several episodes where characters can drop into the "dislike" or even "hated" categories:

a. Rainbow Dash for The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well (hell, the Remane Five, also) and May the Best Pet Win.

b. Pinkie Pie for Filli Vanilli.

c. Fluttershy for Putting Your Hoof Down, Bats!, and Power Ponies.

d. Big Mac and Cheerilee for Hearts & Hooves Day.

e. Twilight Sparkle for Feeling Pinkie Keen, It Ain't Easy Being Breezies, and Bridle Gossip.

f. Rarity for Sweet & Elite.

g. Applejack for One Bad Apple (previously Mare-Do-Well, Boast Busters, Look Before You Sleep, and Bridle Gossip; Somepony to Watch Over Me in S4). Seriously, now that I'm reviewing OBA more and more, I'm very surprised to not see AJ appear in many "hated" character lists, even back then, because she was so useless here. In other words, a pathetic background pony.

Onward to the fourth point. In the animation, dialogue, and overall script planning, Babs Seed was excused for bullying because she was bullied back home. Because of the massive holes in the storytelling, Morrow's saying that the character's allowed to be evil to the CMCs, if not anypony else.

And that's where this comes to play again:

Applejack: Well, I didn't say nothin' 'cause I didn't want her to feel singled out, but there's been some bullies back in Manehattan just been teasin' her to pieces for her blank flank.

The script scapegoats Babs's physical sadism on her situation back in Manehattan. That's no excuse. If anything, her actions only look WORSE, since she knows how being bullied affects her and wants other innocents to feel it, too. Instead of solving the problem, she contributes to the problem.

By the way, a moment midway shows Babs remaining self-conscious despite bullying the Cutie Mark Crusaders, but it doesn't work at all. For the majority of the episode, she retains a smug smirk like duct tape plastered on a race car. Another episode where facial expressions influence an episode, Sisterhooves Social, really contrasts Babs's for one big reason.

In one of SS's scenes where Sweetie Belle goes through multiple expressions, they flavored the scene and made the dialogue much more powerful. In a few short seconds, Sweetie's pain over Rarity's yelling cycled itself.

One Bad Apple relied on Babs's smirk throughout; by haphazardly switching it up into being an "I'm-regretful" bully, she looks eviler instead.

Like what I wrote last time, One Bad Apple continually portrays bullying as a "one-size-fits-all" solution and doesn't try to not just hide it, but not hide it to the point of disgusting.

Once more, just because a character learns her lesson doesn't give her nor the script the incentive to not punish her. Throughout the episode, Babs Seed tormented the Cutie Mark Crusaders by wrecking their float, having them run away each time, stalking them throughout town, physically assaulting them, evicting Apple Bloom from her bed, controlling the clubhouse, and forcing them to hide out in Sweetie Belle's house. Pretty much all of it without the one-dimensional Disasterly Duos aiding her. While she got the scare of her life via the tampered float, it's downright asinine to say Babs shouldn't have been punished as a result. She landed the best possible outcome everywhere she went, while the CMCs were left worse for wear.

All of my points still stand.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Dark Qiviut

DryGuy84 (Inactive) · March 20, 2014

Wait, @Dark Qiviut how did Twi drop into unlikeable territory in IAEBB?

BlinkZ · March 20, 2014

I Agree with his statement on the first page. Sick of Spike being the butt of jokes and character bending to the plot instead of the other way around. Like it should be.

text wall!!

Dark Qiviut · March 20, 2014

Wait, @Dark Qiviut how did Twi drop into unlikeable territory in IAEBB?

It's a bit of a stretch, but the reason isn't for an antagonistic attitude or childish stupidity, but the obvious role she played as: a know-it-all, archetypical DEM to finish the episode.

To quote from one of my points in EQD:

You open up plenty of questions with how to solve any other S4 episode she's in, both now and later. Because Twilight pulled off a very big spell that intentionally transformed every single one of her friends by memory at the spur of the moment, you risk making her an extreme know-it-all-type character that the writers can pluck out and solve conflicts five minutes in unless you dial back her IQ. You risk cheapening her other roles simply by having her do these powerful tricks. In other words, a character with a role equivalent to Celestia or Zecora (without the cryptic rhyming).

And I repeated, yet clarified, the same point in the same chain in a reply:

Because Twilight mastered the Magic of Friendship and figured out how to memorize a very transformation spell (one that hasn't been used before) very quickly at the very end. When you have characters know how to solve problems by using very strong magic that appeared for the first time, you really risk losing dimension to her character and having the writers using them as a copout for ending episode conflicts unless you dial her intelligence back.

No, I disagree with Digi, as I stated earlier. I just was curious as to what you thought about it.

I know. I was agreeing with you here.

This leads to another problem: far too much telling and far too little showing. One of the greatest methods of telling a story is by showing actions, consequences, the story, and characters' adventures/reactions. If you want to know if the story is clumsy, concentrate on the exposition. There's a time for it, but if the story relies on it too much, then chances are the story is going to fall flat.

One of Dragon Quest's biggest flaws is how flawed the logic is throughout. But one part really tells a fantastic story: his journey from Ponyville to the dragon migration site. There's no dialogue. Just action, motions, Spike's gestures, Spike's facial expressions, music, and animation. It's easily one of the best storytelling moments in the entire show because it shows how gritty the journey was without any dialogue.

Several episodes tell the story without telling it, strengthening the writing quality. Some that come to mind are Wonderbolts Academy (especially the third act), Hurricane Fluttershy, Sisterhooves Social, Pinkie Pride, The Best Night Ever, and Lesson Zero.

Several episodes rely on exposition far too much, causing the story to fall flat. Friendship Is Magic, Part 2; Feeling Pinkie Keen; Bridle Gossip; It Ain't Easy Being Breezies; Equestria Girls; and A Canterlot Wedding all exemplify this. Sometimes, the moments aren't as powerful because of the exposition, like the smudging in Pinkie Apple Pie.

Some of the best stories or scenes that I've seen rely on little to no dialogue, focusing on the music, animation, color script, and skipping of time to tell a story. While it doesn't mean Friendship Is Magic shouldn't cut itself from using expository dialogue, don't rely on it so much, something plenty of episodes do. Show more, tell less.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Dark Qiviut

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