Elsa vs Celestia

[sweetemily 4]

i would bet at Elsa. I totally love MLP but Frozen is my 2nd fav movie now 

[Dattebayo 2,850]

i would bet at Elsa. I totally love MLP but Frozen is my 2nd fav movie now

YOU FOOL

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

THIS WRECHED THREAD WAS DEAD AND BURIED

AND YOU BROUGHT IT BACK TO LIFE

[sweetemily 4]

YOU FOOL

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

THIS WRECHED THREAD WAS DEAD AND BURIED

AND YOU BROUGHT IT BACK TO LIFE

 

I'm sorry... Feeling embarrassed now 

[Dattebayo 2,850]

I'm sorry... Feeling embarrassed now

Lol let's just hope the OP hasn't seen it... xD

[XxConfusedUnicornxX 834]

Never liked Tia. Even is she's my avatar nope. Nope nope nope. ELSA FOR THE WIIIIIIN!

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Asdasdasdasd

God damn this thread to the bowels of Satanville x)

[Forlong 1,726]

While Elsa can counter Celestia's weather based magic; Celestia is faster, has more maneuverability, a wider range of spells, and all the strength of a horse.  The winner is Celestia.

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Dattebayo,

What was that you said?

 

 

Celestia is faster

Not fast enough to avoid AOE attacks

 

 

has more maneuverability

Not going to help too much when Elsa starts panicking and firing wildly

 

 

a wider range of spells

Raising the Sun=Useless in a fight

Magic beams=Dealt with by ice shields

Healing=Not going to help

Telekinesis=Not strong enough to do much

 

 

all the strength of a horse

 

Snowlem>Horse

Asdasdasdasd
God damn this thread to the bowels of Satanville x)

Why? I quite enjoyed this thread, even if you labeled me a fanboy troll. If it pleases you, I have a Vulture vs Joker thread set up

[Forlong 1,726]

@@Dattebayo,

What was that you said?

 

 

Not fast enough to avoid AOE attacks

 

 

Not going to help too much when Elsa starts panicking and firing wildly

 

 

Raising the Sun=Useless in a fight

Magic beams=Dealt with by ice shields

Healing=Not going to help

Telekinesis=Not strong enough to do much

 

 

Snowlem>Horse

Why? I quite enjoyed this thread, even if you labeled me a fanboy troll. If it pleases you, I have a Vulture vs Joker thread set up

Oh, it's you.  I'll be nice this time.

1. Elsa doesn't have area of effect spells.  We never saw her cast anything like that.  The closest we got was freezing the Summer, which would take days to have a negative effect on anyone.
2. Control > Panic
3. Twilight can shatter unbreakable crystals with her magic beams, but her teacher wouldn't be able to break frozen water with her's?  That makes sense.
4. I'm not sure by what rational you're saying healing spells would be useless.  Healing equals more stamina.  Stamina that Elsa has a limited supply of.
5. Telekinesis would be invaluable!  Deflecting icicles, throwing trees, lifting Elsa off her feet, ect.
6. Celestia also has teleportation, illusions, transmutations, and many more.  Like I said: wider range.
7. The Snow Golem would be a threat against Celestia, but Celestia retains more mobility and knows several spells that could gradually take it down.

It wouldn't take her 4 seconds, but Celestia has far more power, strength, and experience.  She would be able to win in the end.

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Oh, it's you. I'll be nice this time.

• Elsa doesn't have area of effect spells. We never saw her cast anything like that. The closest we got was freezing the Summer, which would take days to have a negative effect on anyone.
• Control > Panic
• Twilight can shatter unbreakable crystals with her magic beams, but her teacher wouldn't be able to break frozen water with her's? That makes sense.
• I'm not sure by what rational you're saying healing spells would be useless. Healing equals more stamina. Stamina that Elsa has a limited supply of.
• Telekinesis would be invaluable! Deflecting icicles, throwing trees, lifting Elsa off her feet, ect.
• Celestia also has teleportation, illusions, transmutations, and many more. Like I said: wider range.
• The Snow Golem would be a threat against Celestia, but Celestia retains more mobility and knows several spells that could gradually take it down.

It wouldn't take her 4 seconds, but Celestia has far more power, strength, and experience. She would be able to win in the end.

Friend...I have defended every point to the death...I cast a shadow of doubt over Elsa's abilities and fragile state of mind...

And it's absolutely pointless. x)

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Elsa doesn't have area of effect spells.  We never saw her cast anything like that.  The closest we got was freezing the Summer, which would take days to have a negative effect on anyone.

Refer to an earlier post in this thread where I showed she could indeed use AOE power pulses around herself

 

 

Control > Panic

I'm not saying she will be in control, but when out of control, she'll fire wildly, ironically giving her a better chance of hitting Celestia

 

 

Twilight can shatter unbreakable crystals with her magic beams, but her teacher wouldn't be able to break frozen water with her's?  That makes sense.

When were these crystals stated to be unbreakable? Never the less, the shields are only going to last one shot, so Elsa will have to recreate them after each bolt, meaning Celestia does have a chance of overcoming here there

 

 

I'm not sure by what rational you're saying healing spells would be useless.  Healing equals more stamina.  Stamina that Elsa has a limited supply of.

It wasn't shown healing wounds, just removing a brain wash. Even if it was physically healing, Elsa's attacks are mostly all or nothing attacks

 

 

Telekinesis would be invaluable!  Deflecting icicles, throwing trees, lifting Elsa off her feet, ect.

If it were so powerful, why do unicorns or alicorns never use it in combat? They just use standard magic bolts, either they are tactical morons or they are somehow limited

 

 

teleportation

She has never shown the ability to do this, by this logic, I could say Elsa is good at sword fighting because her father had a sword

 

 

illusions

Never used it nor any basis for it

 

 

transmutations, and many more.  Like I said: wider range.

Again, never used it

 

 

power

Tell me when Celestia can shatter steel after milliseconds of exposure

 

Friend...I have defended every point to the death...I cast a shadow of doubt over Elsa's abilities and fragile state of mind...
And it's absolutely pointless. x)

Getting her angry might actually worsen the situation for Celestia. When Elsa is upset, her powers go haywire, making her unpredictable

 

And I could say the same to you, having pointed out Celestia's lack of raw power

[Scarlet Letter 138]

Elsa obviously! With a snap of her fingers, she'll have Celestia running on ice lol

[Hive King 2,001]

@@Scarlet Letter,

It's not quite that simple 

[NavelColt 22,881]

They'd be evenly matched for about twenty seconds, before Celestia announces who she is, and Elsa gives her a chance to explain herself. They soon come to find they have much in common, both being mature rulers who have not always had everything go smoothly with their younger sisters (i.e 'I had to banish my little sister to the moon', and 'I had to alienate my little sister for her own protection from my powers'), and become good friends.

 

:3

[Scarlet Letter 138]

@@Scarlet Letter,

It's not quite that simple 

I know, its just I love Elsa so much!

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Refer to an earlier post in this thread where I showed she could indeed use AOE power pulses around herself

 

 

I'm not saying she will be in control, but when out of control, she'll fire wildly, ironically giving her a better chance of hitting Celestia

 

Means little when Celestia can just make herself intangible while Elsa goes wild with her attacks or even simply out-fly it.

 

 

When were these crystals stated to be unbreakable? Never the less, the shields are only going to last one shot, so Elsa will have to recreate them after each bolt, meaning Celestia does have a chance of overcoming here there

 

 

 

It wasn't shown healing wounds, just removing a brain wash. Even if it was physically healing, Elsa's attacks are mostly all or nothing attacks

 

Wouldn't that mean she'll exhaust herself much faster in a fight, especially against an opponent who holds all the advantages to avoid her attacks and control the fight.

 

 

If it were so powerful, why do unicorns or alicorns never use it in combat? They just use standard magic bolts, either they are tactical morons or they are somehow limited

 

Trixie has shown that unicorns and Alicorns can very much use telekinisis in combat. Only thing stopping them is simply writers not being that creative with combat situations in MLP.

 

 

She has never shown the ability to do this, by this logic, I could say Elsa is good at sword fighting because her father had a sword

 

Celestia was shown teleporting back to Canterlot in Lesson Zero. This is one of the few powers she has that we definitely know she can do without relying on power scaling. And considering how Twilight is able to teleport an object at her choosing and is able to use teleportation fragging, it's likely the teacher can do all of those too.

 

 

Never used it nor any basis for it

 

Celestia was shown that she knows dark magic in the Crystal Empire episode. Considering Dark Magic was able to mind attack Twilight and how Nightmare Moon and Luna was able to create illusions such as the shadow bolts, it's likely Celestia through dark magic knows it too.

 

 

Again, never used it

 

If the student Twilight is able to use such magic, why can't Celestia the teacher?

 

 

Tell me when Celestia can shatter steel after milliseconds of exposure

 

When Elsa has the reaction speed of Rainbow Dash, a lighting dodger and a pegasus pony, let alone the more powerful Celestia and can move at Hypersonic speeds like Luna can, that point would help her more.

 

Getting her angry might actually worsen the situation for Celestia. When Elsa is upset, her powers go haywire, making her unpredictable

 

Considering Celestia has speed, intangibility, and teleportation advantage to go with her 1000 years of experience, I'd say it's actually a huge disadvantage for Elsa as Celestia can simply do any of those things to avoid her attack, leaving Elsa completely vulnerable to Celestia's attacks after she's exhausted.

 

And I could say the same to you, having pointed out Celestia's lack of raw power

 

Elsa's best feat was cooling Summer thus far. Celestia's best feat was moving a sun around. Thus it shows that just simply through telekinisis Celestia trounces  her in that regard

 

 

I appreciate the effort you've put into your case for Elsa, still I remain unconvinced Elsa has a chance to beat Celestia through many reasons.

[EquineWhoDoesStuff 49]

 

She has never shown the ability to do this, by this logic, I could say Elsa is good at sword fighting because her father had a sword

 

 

Still hoping not to be dragged into this debate, but I must make a correction here. Celestia is explicitly shown to teleport at the end of Lesson Zero, right after she complements Spike for taking Twilight's state of mind seriously.

 

 

 

 

She even says that she's returning to Canterlot just before she flies away and teleports. I think it would be a bit silly to assume she could teleport all the way to Canterlot from Ponyville, but it implies she can teleport at least a far enough distance to be useful as a means of travel. Not to mention all the other times, including elsewhere in Lesson Zero where Celestia pops up out of nowhere, usually accompanied by a flash of light.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Still hoping not to be dragged into this debate, but I must make a correction here. Celestia is explicitly shown to teleport at the end of Lesson Zero, right after she complements Spike for taking Twilight's state of mind seriously.

 

Screen Shot 2014-04-18 at 9.10.41 PM.png

 

Screen Shot 2014-04-18 at 9.10.49 PM.png

 

Screen Shot 2014-04-18 at 9.11.07 PM.png

 

She even says that she's returning to Canterlot just before she flies away and teleports. I think it would be a bit silly to assume she could teleport all the way to Canterlot from Ponyville, but it implies she can teleport at least a far enough distance to be useful as a means of travel. Not to mention all the other times, including elsewhere in Lesson Zero where Celestia pops up out of nowhere, usually accompanied by a flash of light.

 

Another scary part about Celestia's teleportation as because Celestia was sent to the Sun when Nightmare Moon returned and she came back using teleportation, her teleportation range is implied to have inner star system range.

[EquineWhoDoesStuff 49]

 

 

I also have a question, do you accept the official comics as canon enough to be admissible? Word from some of the creators of the comic said they consider it the next best thing to canon other than being in the show itself. He also said that ultimately unless it appears in the show it's up to the individual to decide whether it's really 100% canon. 

 

If you do consider them canon it gives us a much larger base of Celestia information to work with.

Edited April 19, 2014 by EquineWhoDoesStuff

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Means little when Celestia can just make herself intangible while Elsa goes wild with her attacks or even simply out-fly it.

No proof of Celestia being able to go intangible. Out flying is a possiblity, but she'll be hardpressed to dodge so much fire on her

 

 

Wouldn't that mean she'll exhaust herself much faster in a fight, especially against an opponent who holds all the advantages to avoid her attacks and control the fight.

Elsa's stamina is actually very good, creating an ice castle which must weigh a lot with no effort at all. Firing smaller ice needles shouldn't be too big a problem

 

 

Trixie has shown that unicorns and Alicorns can very much use telekinisis in combat. Only thing stopping them is simply writers not being that creative with combat situations in MLP.

Fair enough, it's still not going to be an insta-win, thought it'll help out

 

 

Celestia was shown teleporting back to Canterlot in Lesson Zero. This is one of the few powers she has that we definitely know she can do without relying on power scaling. And considering how Twilight is able to teleport an object at her choosing and is able to use teleportation fragging, it's likely the teacher can do all of those too.

Yeah, I saw @@EquineWhoDoesStuff, post and I forgot about that. Ooops. Still, tele fragging would kill them both. I wouldn't want bone fragments in my neck

 

 

Celestia was shown that she knows dark magic in the Crystal Empire episode. Considering Dark Magic was able to mind attack Twilight and how Nightmare Moon and Luna was able to create illusions such as the shadow bolts, it's likely Celestia through dark magic knows it too.

Luna/NMM weren't using dark magic, the color is completely different from it. And as for dark magic, it seems to be more useful for enchanting objects rather than actively attacking. If you notice, Sombra never actually attacks with it, even when he had good reason to, he just created enchanted objects.

 

If Celestia had prep, this would be very helpful and she would win

 

 

If the student Twilight is able to use such magic, why can't Celestia the teacher?

Because Twilight is a prodigy and her special talent is literally magic while Celestia's special talent is...the light I guess?

 

 

When Elsa has the reaction speed of Rainbow Dash, a lighting dodger and a pegasus pony, let alone the more powerful Celestia and can move at Hypersonic speeds like Luna can, that point would help her more.

Celestia is not hyper sonic at all, no sonic booms in Canterlot against NMM prove that. 

 

You seem to think that Celestia is as fast as RD, she is not at all.

 

As for Luna, you enlightened me on how Celestia can teleport, more likely, Luna teleported in since their wasn't a giant sonic boom and fire ball from entering the atmosphere

 

 

Considering Celestia has speed, intangibility, and teleportation advantage to go with her 1000 years of experience, I'd say it's actually a huge disadvantage for Elsa as Celestia can simply do any of those things to avoid her attack, leaving Elsa completely vulnerable to Celestia's attacks after she's exhausted.

Elsa has decent stamina when it comes to ice magic. Like I said, Celestia is not hyper sonic, never showed anything even similar to that or intangibility. As for teleportation, it's not instant as Twilight shows so it's possible that by the time she reappears, there's an ice spike there

 

 

Elsa's best feat was cooling Summer thus far. Celestia's best feat was moving a sun around. Thus it shows that just simply through telekinisis Celestia trounces  her in that regard

Elsa's best feat was shattering steel after milliseconds of exposure, even this didn't tire her out much. Anyway, Celestia's Sun feat is grossly disproportionate when the beam that takes her down also failed to dent her crown

 

 

I appreciate the effort you've put into your case for Elsa, still I remain unconvinced Elsa has a chance to beat Celestia through many reasons.

Thank you, you've changed my opinion a bit

Elsa wins 65/100 times, which is less than before

 

Another scary part about Celestia's teleportation as because Celestia was sent to the Sun when Nightmare Moon returned and she came back using teleportation, her teleportation range is implied to have inner star system range.

True, but like I said, BFR is active in this fight so this won't work

 

I also have a question, do you accept the official comics as canon enough to be admissible? Word from some of the creators of the comic said they consider it the next best thing to canon other than being in the show itself. He also said that ultimately unless it appears in the show it's up to the individual to decide whether it's really 100% canon. 

 

If you do consider them canon it gives us a much larger base of Celestia information to work with.

I personally don't because of the fact that I believe someone said

"They are as canon as you want them to be?"

[Nuke87654 1,849]

No proof of Celestia being able to go intangible. Out flying is a possiblity, but she'll be hardpressed to dodge so much fire on her

 

Her sister, Luna, is able to go intangible so why can't her sister do so? Considering ponies are apparant lighting dodgers, I'd say she has a good chance.

 

 

Elsa's stamina is actually very good, creating an ice castle which must weigh a lot with no effort at all. Firing smaller ice needles shouldn't be too big a problem

 

Maybe so, but because of Celestia's flight, teleportation, intangibility, and speed, Elsa will be pushed on the defensive with little reprieve in a battle against Celestia here.

 

 

Fair enough, it's still not going to be an insta-win, thought it'll help out

 

Glad we're in agreement here.

 

 

Yeah, I saw @@EquineWhoDoesStuff, post and I forgot about that. Ooops. Still, tele fragging would kill them both. I wouldn't want bone fragments in my neck

 

Considering Celestia is taller, ponies are much stronger than a normal human, and Celestia was able to survive on the Sun fine, I'd say telefragging would work.

 

 

Luna/NMM weren't using dark magic, the color is completely different from it. And as for dark magic, it seems to be more useful for enchanting objects rather than actively attacking. If you notice, Sombra never actually attacks with it, even when he had good reason to, he just created enchanted objects.

 

Fair enough as I need more review, however the point about Sombra's dark magic remains as he has shown the ability to use it. Unless it's been implied that dark magic can only work on an object, I don't see why it won't work in combat considering Sombra was able to enchant an object to mind attack a person without him being in a direct manner. Also, that can be said with everyone else who hasn't used any other magic outside of magic laser despite them showing they can use other more powerful magics in combat.

 

If Celestia had prep, this would be very helpful and she would win

 

She can still use dark magic to mind attack a person or even block Elsa's ability to cast magic like Sombra did with Shining Armor.

 

Because Twilight is a prodigy and her special talent is literally magic while Celestia's special talent is...the light I guess?

 

But Celestia has shown to know a much larger variety of magic than your average Unicorn and she is the teacher of said prodigy. If the student is able to perform such magic, why can't the teacher with 1000 years of experince and life spent?

 

Celestia is not hyper sonic at all, no sonic booms in Canterlot against NMM prove that. 

 

Yet Luna was able to travel from the Moon to Equestria through speed alone and she did generated a boom similar to a Sonic Rainboom. Why can't her older sister do so as well?

 

You seem to think that Celestia is as fast as RD, she is not at all.

 

Luna has shown the better movement speed feat over Rainbow Dash with her flight from the Moon to Equestria, thus it can be said Celestia can be faster than Rainbow Dash via powerscaling.

 

As for Luna, you enlightened me on how Celestia can teleport, more likely, Luna teleported in since their wasn't a giant sonic boom and fire ball from entering the atmosphere

 

If it were a teleportation feat, why did it betrayed every teleportation feat shown (it showed a streak of light moving from the Moon the Equestria) and is actually more in line with the Sonic rainboom and Twilight's own Sonic Rainboom? Especially if Luna was teleporting, why did she not appear next to her sister or in Ponyville instead of flying through the atmosphere?

 

 

Elsa has decent stamina when it comes to ice magic. Like I said, Celestia is not hyper sonic, never showed anything even similar to that or intangibility. As for teleportation, it's not instant as Twilight shows so it's possible that by the time she reappears, there's an ice spike there

 

Her younger sister has shown otherwise that she is hypersonic, and because Sombra and Luna can use intangibility, why can't Celestia? Yet the ponies have shown much better speed feats than Elsa so she's more likely going to pull an attack off before Elsa would.

 

 

Elsa's best feat was shattering steel after milliseconds of exposure, even this didn't tire her out much. Anyway, Celestia's Sun feat is grossly disproportionate when the beam that takes her down also failed to dent her crown

 

Yet Celestia's telekinesis is rated at star level because of it and several things can be explained as Chrysalis draining the most powerful magic from Cadence and Shining Armor for a period of time, plot armor, Celestia holding back (the Friends Forever issue between Spike and Celestia implies that she was holding back in many of her defeats to allow Twilight and others to succeed over her).

 

 

Thank you, you've changed my opinion a bit

Elsa wins 65/100 times, which is less than before

 

Thank you very much.

 

True, but like I said, BFR is active in this fight so this won't work

 

True

I personally don't because of the fact that I believe someone said

"They are as canon as you want them to be?"

 

Unfortunately, because you never mentioned that and it's already too late to change it. Unless the comics are stated to not be canon, they are as per 'everything officially licensed by Hasbro is canon'.

 

 

Anyways, I'm a bit busy downloading crap for my new computer so I don't have the time for research tonight.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

Her sister, Luna, is able to go intangible so why can't her sister do so? Considering ponies are apparant lighting dodgers, I'd say she has a good chance.

When did Luna got intangible?

 

 

Maybe so, but because of Celestia's flight, teleportation, intangibility, and speed, Elsa will be pushed on the defensive with little reprieve in a battle against Celestia here.

No disagreement here, but she can still do it

 

 

Considering Celestia is taller, ponies are much stronger than a normal human, and Celestia was able to survive on the Sun fine, I'd say telefragging would work.

Yet Celestia was taken down by a stone busting blast? I'd say bone fragments in the neck would screw her over

 

 

Fair enough as I need more review, however the point about Sombra's dark magic remains as he has shown the ability to use it. Unless it's been implied that dark magic can only work on an object, I don't see why it won't work in combat considering Sombra was able to enchant an object to mind attack a person without him being in a direct manner. Also, that can be said with everyone else who hasn't used any other magic outside of magic laser despite them showing they can use other more powerful magics in combat.

Magic has weird logic, it could be like Skyrim where the enchant bow spell can only work on boots and not helmets, etc.

 

 

But Celestia has shown to know a much larger variety of magic than your average Unicorn and she is the teacher of said prodigy. If the student is able to perform such magic, why can't the teacher with 1000 years of experince and life spent?

Celestia has shown teleportation, unbrainwashing, magic beams....that's about it really. And I've already explained that you can only learn a certain branch of magic

 

 

Yet Luna was able to travel from the Moon to Equestria through speed alone and she did generated a boom similar to a Sonic Rainboom. Why can't her older sister do so as well?

There was no sonic boom and I saw that more as teleportation, it looked very similar to Celestia returning to Canterlot

 

 

Luna has shown the better movement speed feat over Rainbow Dash with her flight from the Moon to Equestria, thus it can be said Celestia can be faster than Rainbow Dash via powerscaling.

Teleportation probably, otherwise Luna and Celestia were holding back in their dog fight

 

 

If it were a teleportation feat, why did it betrayed every teleportation feat shown (it showed a streak of light moving from the Moon the Equestria) and is actually more in line with the Sonic rainboom and Twilight's own Sonic Rainboom? Especially if Luna was teleporting, why did she not appear next to her sister or in Ponyville instead of flying through the atmosphere?

Teleports have a weird, well, stagger effect. It appears that if you are moving before the teleport, you keep moving and have a little magic trail behind you.

 

Twilight's sonic starboom was confirmed to just be special effects by the writers, there was a post on that a while ago.

 

And perhaps Luna wanted to survey the city a bit? We don't know too much about the alicorns, which is a problem in this thread

 

 

Her younger sister has shown otherwise that she is hypersonic, and because Sombra and Luna can use intangibility, why can't Celestia? Yet the ponies have shown much better speed feats than Elsa so she's more likely going to pull an attack off before Elsa would.

Sombra was only intangible after becoming a ghost and dying, hardly combat worthy. And Luna never went intangible

 

 

Yet Celestia's telekinesis is rated at star level because of it and several things can be explained as Chrysalis draining the most powerful magic from Cadence and Shining Armor for a period of time, plot armor, Celestia holding back (the Friends Forever issue between Spike and Celestia implies that she was holding back in many of her defeats to allow Twilight and others to succeed over her).

No, what I mean is that Chrysalis's beam did not even dent Celestia's crown, which appears to me regular gold, a soft metal. It was right in the blast radius of it.

 

I'm doing power scaling via environmental damage comparisons, it's not an exact science, but here's the tier list

Crown>Celestia's tolerance for head shots

 

 

Unfortunately, because you never mentioned that and it's already too late to change it. Unless the comics are stated to not be canon, they are as per 'everything officially licensed by Hasbro is canon'.

I believe one writer said that, I don't remember where. And as for everything being canon, that means that Tirek and the Rainbow of Light are canon as are regular humans and finding your way there without a mirror 

[FlitterFlutter 1,584]

 

Because of this

 

I don't get how this picture proves anything?

 

[EquineWhoDoesStuff 49]

 

Because Twilight is a prodigy and her special talent is literally magic while Celestia's special talent is...the light I guess?

 

 

Ugh... we're gonna be running into the territory of subjective analysis more and more here, but it's the only way to really deliberate an imaginary and subjective match up.

 

We know Celestia is at least a thousand years old.

 

I'd mention she was the bearer of Magic, but you'd probably counter and say that the magic required by the Element of Magic is metaphorical. With the Magic not being literal unicorn type magic, but instead the magic of friendship. Which is a fair point that's up to individual interpretation, so I'm not going to fight you on it.

 

However, I'm still going to argue as to why Celestia should be able to use those kinds of magic.

 

For one thing, this argument relies on all the varied spells that Twilight learns being something exclusive to those with a magic cutie marks.

 

First off, if unicorns can only learn telekinesis and spells directly related to their cutie marks then why does Celestia's school for gifted unicorns even exist? Is it designed only to help unicorns master spells related to their cutie marks? We've seen Rarity can work magic to create dresses above the level of normal telekinesis and geological spells related to gemstones. 

 

If that school is so completely specialized to each unicorns cutie mark prescribed abilities than why does the entrance exam entail awakening a baby dragon egg? If that was the case then only ponies with nature, dragon, animal or ext related cutie marks would be able to get it. This test was given before Twilight got her cutie mark, so it had to be a generic one that's designed to cater to the unicorn populous in general. Not to mention nearly all Twilight's spell are shown to be learned from her books. Do you honestly believe the entire Equestrian library of magical arts was written by a succession of magic cutie marked ponies and that they were all such prodigies that they collectively and consistently outpaced the ability level of their immortal alicorn ruler? Before you claim that those specific theories were written down by Starswirl the bearded or some similar unicorn wizard, Starswirl's work was shown to be locked in a restricted wing of the library that Twilight had never even visited. 

 

Even if you say that it was only the select elite of unicorn wizards that created and practiced these spells and that Celestia is simply outmatched in that category by ponies with unicorn cutie marks, we've seen ponies use spells not related to their cutie marks in any degree.

 

In Three's a Crowd Princess Cadence creates an anti germ bubble, a fairly impressively selective forcefield. Not only that, she and Shining Armor are both shown to able to use magic beams. It's never said anywhere that offensive magic beams are any different to learn than any other kind of spell, nor is it ever said that they are a spell that just comes naturally like telekinesis. 

 

Cadence's cutie mark is that crystal heart, representing love or love magic or something similar to that. We can assume the germ bubble is fairly advanced spell, considering that in none of the hospitals or during anypony's sickness has anyone else been shown to cast a germ bubble. Cadence is able to cast a spell completely unrelated to her cutie mark, the only way she could have done that is if she learned it. There is no connection that's not shaky if you wanted to connect that germ bubble to her cutie mark. The only thing I could even remotely think of would be protection from STD's, even then it's the wrong kind of force field for that. Any possible link is completely conjecture.

 

All this implies that logically unicorns can learn other magic if they set their mind to studying it. The idea that an alicorn with a thousand years to study cannot learn magic outside her sun oriented cutie marks branch is absurd when an alicorn who has to at least be younger than the crystal empire can. I don't know how else to say it. Your idea that unicorns can only learn from the very narrow confines of their cutie mark's magic branch is wrong. It not only contradicts canon at this point, it also goes against the many thing implied by the setting and taking it's details to their logical conclusion

 

Twilight also said she was learning spells, including a transformation spell, from Celestia's personal journal. Celestia wrote down spells a thousand years ago that can't be found in modern texts, yet a thousand years later and she still can't do something Twilight did in season 3?

 

I don't care if you're sick of me ranting on and on about this one point, because I'm going to beat it dead into the ground if I have to.

 

To suggest that Celestia doesn't know the spells Twilight managed to learn in under twenty even though she's a thousand years is unreasonable. Cadence can learn magic unrelated to her special talent. Celestia has years if not centuries more time to pick up spells. To say that the transmutation and yes, illusion spells that Twilight knows are so advanced that Celestia couldn't master them in a time period a hundred of times longer than Twilight's entire life is insane. No where is it stated that transmutation or even basic illusion are anything beyond Celestia abilities. 

Edited April 19, 2014 by EquineWhoDoesStuff

[Hive King 2,001]

@@EquineWhoDoesStuff,

When did Twilight use an illusions spell?

 

Anyway, your point is well made.

 

Still, this does deny Spikes's little thing in Boast Busters when he was impressed that Twilight knew a whopping 25 spells.

 

We can either deny that, or deny Cadence's bubble. It is a subjective thing to be honest