Elsa vs Celestia

[~Rule 63~ Lyeco 527]

Arguably though.

I could not see an easy answer. Why?

1. Celestia has the power to raise the sun. Elsa has power to control snow.

2. Celestia was down by villains but Elsa is not.

3. Celestia is ruler of Equestria. This means Elsa ruled one kingdom. A world is bigger than a Kingdom

4. Elsa would win Sexy Girls contest against Moles....errr Celestia. But this is a general versus. So yeah

5. Sun > Ice. Including global warming, which also includes melting ice caps. (Big chance of it being off topic)

6. Celestia is older than Elsa.

 

The only way (well my way) to settle this is a DEATH BATTLE

[Serbon div 386]

The answer is Luna.

You cannot compare two weaklings like that. Luna is best princess.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Comrade Serbon

[Hive King 1,998]

@,

Equestria isn't the world

 Equestria is a country, same as Arendelle

@,

Luna is a whiny baby who puts Elsa's tantrums to shame, she has no place in a battle of monarchs 

[Gary S. 102]

I'm really surprised that this thread lasts that long. Even a skilled unicorn could just snap Elsa's neck in 1-2 seconds or just grab and throw her down the next cliff. Even Rarity could do it if she reacts quickly.

 

Telekinesis is so OP, man.

 

 

 

 

Chrysalis absorbed Shing Armor's strong love( the most powerful element of that universe) for Cadance and became exponentially powerful.

 

I was just sarcastic. But many people think that way. Though Twilight overpowering Celestia is a new one for me after Chrysalis in normal power mode, Luna, Sunset Shimmer and Trixie with amulet. Poor Celestia needs a badass episode lol

Edited April 11, 2014 by Gary S.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Gary S.,

Telekinesis has never been used offensively, even Twilight, a master of it, never uses it against foes like dragons, changelings, and the like. Just because they can do something, doesn't mean they will. Unicorns/alicorns have shown themselves to fight mainly with concussive energy bolts.

 

Elsa, on the other hand, prefers to either use golems or just impale people, but she is a gray area since she's not in control until the end of the movie. Presumably, she'll use golems and ice spears as weapons

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Hmmmmm . . . . This could go either way. Celestia, being a sun deity, could conjure enough heat to melt all of Elsa's constructs faster than she could effectively use them. On the other hoof, Elsa could overwhelm Celestia by just blizzard blitzing Her.

 

So, I think it comes down to who's faster on the draw.

[Dashabel 381]

This is the first time I've ever chose a different character over a pony.

But I'm choosing Elsa.

I love Frozen way too much and I'd be ashamed of myself if I didn't pick Elsa.

I still love Celestia, as I love all ponies, but since Celestia isn't a favourite of mine, I'll pass.

[EquineWhoDoesStuff 49]

@@Gary S.,

Telekinesis has never been used offensively, even Twilight, a master of it, never uses it against foes like dragons, changelings, and the like. Just because they can do something, doesn't mean they will. Unicorns/alicorns have shown themselves to fight mainly with concussive energy bolts.

 

Elsa, on the other hand, prefers to either use golems or just impale people, but she is a gray area since she's not in control until the end of the movie. Presumably, she'll use golems and ice spears as weapons

 

Ok, I'm not really interested in getting into this discussion, but Trixie was shown to use telekinesis offensively in Magic Duel to toss Applejack around like a rag doll and smash her into a pile of crates. Just because We've never seen it used offensively by Celestia or Twilight doesn't mean there's any reason they should be incapable of using it that way.

 

 

You take Elsa's powers to the logical extent of their use in combat, which is fair when matching her up for a fight. But the same applies  

for Celestia. Unless there's an actual reason why she shouldn't be able to use a certain spell in combat we can assume she could, "because we've never seen her use it that way" isn't an explanation for why she couldn't use it if it were strategically useful in that situation. We've also been shown that telekinesis can be used on moving, panicked and unwilling ponies, as was shown when Twilight put a telekinetic hold on all her friends when they were freaking out in Castlemania, or any of the other similar situations in other episodes.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@EquineWhoDoesStuff,

Good point, I should have said, not with enough control to snap necks. We've seen telekinesis and if it was really so powerful, why didn't Twilight just paralyze Garble or Basil? Why not just make an air bubble in their brain? Telekinesis can be used in combat, but not in the way that it will kill. It has tons of limits, either mental or physical, that prevent its true potential 

[EquineWhoDoesStuff 49]

@@EquineWhoDoesStuff,

Good point, I should have said, not with enough control to snap necks. We've seen telekinesis and if it was really so powerful, why didn't Twilight just paralyze Garble or Basil? Why not just make an air bubble in their brain? Telekinesis can be used in combat, but not in the way that it will kill. It has tons of limits, either mental or physical, that prevent its true potential 

 

Thank you. Alright, that makes more sense. Yes, telekinesis probably can't just snap body parts in half. It would be a little bit ridiculous if Celestia could just reach inside Elsa's head and crush her brain or other organs. If it was that specifically powerful when used on other's bodies Celestia could just squish her eyeballs or any other cheap tactic.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@EquineWhoDoesStuff,

My personal theory is that everyone has some "innate magic" that allows them to somewhat resist spells. It explains how rocks are shattered by Twilight's blasts, but Changelings are surviving them. If this theory is correct, Elsa should have enough innate magic to resist being paralyzed, though I can see Celestia tossing her around with it. 

 

Also, Elsa does have some resistance to magic as the trolls were unable to take away her abilities

[EquineWhoDoesStuff 49]

@@EquineWhoDoesStuff,

My personal theory is that everyone has some "innate magic" that allows them to somewhat resist spells. It explains how rocks are shattered by Twilight's blasts, but Changelings are surviving them. If this theory is correct, Elsa should have enough innate magic to resist being paralyzed, though I can see Celestia tossing her around with it. 

 

Also, Elsa does have some resistance to magic as the trolls were unable to take away her abilities

 

Ha! That's actually very similar to how I tend to view things like that, otherwise any kind of ranged effective manipulation magic would be incredibly powerful, be it telekinesis or elemental control. It sort of makes sense to think that someone's natural magic would resist outside control, so the more important the area the stronger the natural magical resistance is in that place.

 

Regardless of whether or not it's strictly possible it wouldn't be much of a fight if Celestia could just grab Elsa and paralyze her, and since Elsa's powers provide a precedent for why that shouldn't be possible it's not much of an issue. If it worked that way with every super powered unicorn then every magical fight in the show would be a 'who can use their telekinesis first' race.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

@@EquineWhoDoesStuff,

Good point, I should have said, not with enough control to snap necks. We've seen telekinesis and if it was really so powerful, why didn't Twilight just paralyze Garble or Basil? Why not just make an air bubble in their brain? Telekinesis can be used in combat, but not in the way that it will kill. It has tons of limits, either mental or physical, that prevent its true potential 

 

But we've seen Twilight casually bend a straw with her telekinisis in 'Testing, Testing, 1,2,3', showing that they can use telekinesis to break stuff on the ensnared object or person. Also with Basil, Twilight's best feat at that point was moving two small building sized bear and water tower filled with milk, and that dragon was far larger than those two in comparison. As for Garble and his cohorts, they didn't want to spend anytime fighting them so they chose to retreat against a group of dragons instead.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Nuke87654

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Nuke87654,

Then things get more complex. Either the ponies are tactical morons for not using their abilities to their fullest, or they can't do them for some reason. 

 

Before you bring up Elsa, she was implicitly stated to be holding back most of the movie

[Nuke87654 1,849]

@@Nuke87654,

Then things get more complex. Either the ponies are tactical morons for not using their abilities to their fullest, or they can't do them for some reason. 

 

Before you bring up Elsa, she was implicitly stated to be holding back most of the movie

 

Could be explained that because of it's audience and noted for it's lighthearted atmosphere, I can see it as simply the writers not wishing to make the violence  in the show over the top as after all, breaking someone's bones is a rather jarring sight to see for anyone, let alone the kids.

 

I do not know much about Elsa as I never watched the movie so I can't say.

[Dattebayo 2,850]

ver watched the movie so I can't say.

She's whines about how no one understands her throughout the better half of the entire film, and that fragile state of mind causes her to be frustratingly undisciplined with her magic and causes nearly every conflict in the movie.

Pretty much saved you the money, right there.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Dattebayo

[Nuke87654 1,849]

She's whines about how no one understands her throughout the better half of the entire film, and that fragile state of mind causes her to be frustratingly undisciplined with her magic and causes nearly every conflict in the movie.

Pretty much saved you the money, right there.

 

So essentially she's pre-nightmare moon Luna except she didn't had the Elements of Harmony or a powerful sister to keep her in check?

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Nuke87654,

That was a heavily biased interpretation. More like she's paranoid and anxious and when her powers get discovered, she runs away screaming. She then decides to let her powers free on the mountain side, justifying it by thinking that no one was near her to get hurt. Unfortunately for her, turns out she froze summer by accident. She wants to unfreeze it but doesn't know how and ends up having a break down and trying to isolate herself again. Towards the end of the movie, she gets better and can now control her powers.

 

BTW, bit of debate ettiquette, don't debate about something you have no clue about. I'm not trying to be rude, but if you're going to debate something, at least know about it

 

 

Could be explained that because of it's audience and noted for it's lighthearted atmosphere, I can see it as simply the writers not wishing to make the violence  in the show over the top as after all, breaking someone's bones is a rather jarring sight to see for anyone, let alone the kids.

Even so, Twilight could just paralyze them if her magic is that strong, yet she never does that to anyone except the Mane 6, and even then, only once 

[Nuke87654 1,849]

@@Nuke87654,

That was a heavily biased interpretation. More like she's paranoid and anxious and when her powers get discovered, she runs away screaming. She then decides to let her powers free on the mountain side, justifying it by thinking that no one was near her to get hurt. Unfortunately for her, turns out she froze summer by accident. She wants to unfreeze it but doesn't know how and ends up having a break down and trying to isolate herself again. Towards the end of the movie, she gets better and can now control her powers.

 

BTW, bit of debate ettiquette, don't debate about something you have no clue about. I'm not trying to be rude, but if you're going to debate something, at least know about it

 

 

Even so, Twilight could just paralyze them if her magic is that strong, yet she never does that to anyone except the Mane 6, and even then, only once 

 

It was actually done a couple of times in the 'Games Ponies play' and 'Castlemania' episode. Also, thank you for correcting me there as I needed more clarification on Elsa.

[~Silver Essence~ 2,621]

My bet is on Celestia.

 

I know she doesn't have the power she used to have, but she does have the sun to summon like in the summer sun celebration, so with sun over ice, I'm assuming that's how it will be.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Nuke87654,

I was referring to the instance in Castemania.

 

It's weird, an episode later, Twilight is unable to paralyze Flutterbat, can't stop the Maneiac's henchponies or her mane, fails to deal the Breezies when she could have given them a boost, etc. 

 

Twilight is either an idiot or her paralyze spell needs some sort of requirement

[Dattebayo 2,850]

@@Nuke87654,

I was referring to the instance in Castemania.

 

It's weird, an episode later, Twilight is unable to paralyze Flutterbat, can't stop the Maneiac's henchponies or her mane, fails to deal the Breezies when she could have given them a boost, etc.

 

Twilight is either an idiot or her paralyze spell needs some sort of requirement

I assume it's just for show-quality reasons.

There was already a thread here that a guy complained about Deus Ex Machina, I'm sure the writers didn't want to owerpower anyone too much, too often.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Dattebayo

[Nuke87654 1,849]

@@Nuke87654,

I was referring to the instance in Castemania.

 

It's weird, an episode later, Twilight is unable to paralyze Flutterbat, can't stop the Maneiac's henchponies or her mane, fails to deal the Breezies when she could have given them a boost, etc. 

 

Twilight is either an idiot or her paralyze spell needs some sort of requirement

 

All can be explained as Plot induced stupidity moments as it would be rather boring if she simply calls up her telekinesis spell and defeats every foe that way. After all, those episodes usually have the spotlight on someone else so if Twilight were the one to solve the problem through that method, what would be there for the pony of the episode to know?

 

Also, the only reason why Twilight used the transformation spell is because hasbro wanted the mane 6 to become breezies for the sake of their toyline.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Nuke87654,

When the PIS moments out number the other moments and Twilight has no stats saying otherwise, we have to assume that using telekinesis in combat IS the PIS.  

[Nuke87654 1,849]

@@Nuke87654,

When the PIS moments out number the other moments and Twilight has no stats saying otherwise, we have to assume that using telekinesis in combat IS the PIS.  

 

Yet Trixie was able to use telekinesis in combat just fine, also Twilight was able to grab her friends with her telekinisis easily whenever she wanted it to we can see that telekinisis in combat is applicable, it's just dependent upon the writer to use it instead of your typical magic laser.