A Scary Thought

[DubWolf 20,687]

For a few weeks I've been trying to know God and start establishing a relationship with him. Obviously a few weeks might not be enough since I still don't feel connected yet. What's really been scaring me is this verse, Matthew 7:21-23 :

 

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

(I don't think that's the King James version)

 

Basically, no matter how good of a person you are, if you do not truly know Jesus, you will be denied entry to heaven. I'm not trying to find a way out to not befriending Jesus, but I just feel like so many people today aren't that kind of person that Jesus is looking for. It's not enough to just believe in Jesus and his actions, or read the bible or go to church; it has to be important to you (this is again, my interpretation derived from a bible study). I've been worried enough to even tell a few friends about this, but feel like people aren't really buying into this. Think about all the people who might fall into the unfortunate: your family members like brothers and sisters and father and mother, unable to realize they failed to know Jesus, going into the eternal flame :/. It's hard to bear the idea that so many people you might look up to and love so much might just not make it. What if I never get the chance to know Jesus like he wants us to? I just don't think it's fair that people who are hard loving and full of kindness are considered "evildoers" because of a lack of faith, and they just might not be aware of this... 

 

I know this is how I am interpreting it (although I reeeally keep pondering on this), but how would my friends in the brony world interpret this verse? 

 

I would also appreciate if I didn't get any comments that suggested this is why you believe there is no such God.

 

I feel like this isn't a question I should ask when I am only starting to know God, and a "reassuring answer" that will remove this fear might dissuade me from following Christ. Then again, it's good not to fear God (and befriend him) and that is what I am aiming for!

Edited April 23, 2014 by Super80 Wolf

[BasementSporkle 20,358]

 I'm just bothered by the idea of hell in general. It's a cool fictional concept, but applying it to reality is a different story. I don't think anyone deserves that. That's just how I view it, others obviously feel differently about it.

 

 I'm not sure, it's funny how I'm pretty good at interpreting things with images, but put it in words and I have a hard time.

[UltimaX 63]

There are multiple quotes that say that god has mercy on people. So why would god punish people for not knowing him. I would count that knowing the bible would be considered as knowing god. But you also must keep in minder that the bible was written by many different people. So there is going to be some differences within the text. Plus, the bible that is know today wasn't completely put together till 2 centuries after Jesus had lived. This will cause some blurring and fading of information. Additionally,   And on top of all of that, Matthew could have been wrong. After he is just human. 

Edited April 23, 2014 by The True Black Star

[MarcelineA 126]

I would say follow your heart do what your heart tells you (on that subject I'm still skeptical of following your heart when it comes to love interest lol the heart can be dumb then so in that case follow your brain but in spiritual cases follow your heart) you seem like a genuinely nice person so you will find the way no worries as long as you treat others with respect but also respect yourself as well and learn to love yourself and others and find peace with God have faith in Him repent from the heart when you do something that is genuinely bad (and look at it as if you called your friend an asshole which isn't nice so you said sorry later because you felt bad then your friend forgives you, it's kind of the same thing) so yeah and also when you ask Him for strength and when you thank Him... in my belief even though I don't believe EVERYTHING humans say and I don't agree with some of the "sins" some religious people say they are I look to Him as a friend and parent He's guiding us in his way and just picture this your parent gave you so much love since you were born you should thank them even though is their job they still have the choice not to love you but they did and that's a thing to be thankful for and also when you need help as a kid who do you go to for help? your parents and/or mentors well I feel the same about God lots of people just have the worst misconception of him :C

[Bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb 167]

i don't think not knowing jesus would send you straight to eternal damnation 

[Dattebayo 2,850]

i don't think not knowing jesus would send you straight to eternal damnation

Actually, that's the entire idea of Christianity.

Depressing, ain't it? You could be a good, wholesome Jewish, Catholic, or Mormon, but if you pick the wrong religion at the end, then you go straight to hell.

[MarcelineA 126]

Actually, that's the entire idea of Christianity.

Depressing, ain't it? You could be a good, wholesome Jewish, Catholic, or Mormon, but if you pick the wrong religion at the end, then you go straight to hell.

Not necessarily that's only people's misconception of Christianity being a Christian should just mean you believe in Him but also they can't just assume things (for example someone couldn't have even known about the religion and if He is a God of love I'm pretty sure He will see the circumstances but religious people don't see that they take things too literal when in reality it's open to interpretation and taking into account the Bible has been translated in SO many different languages AND written in different times (even if it was inspired by God spiritually they have to realize this things) also it's written by people who think DIFFERENTLY and perceive things different (He might of not even meant what they even perceived is what I'm trying to say) and also we as humans have evolved too and things have changed etc. so yeah I just know in my belief he's the most wonderful being a person can have by their side and I don't have a horrible view of Him but instead a loving view of Him ^-^

Edited April 23, 2014 by MarcelineA

[Lordav 3,428]

Well, not going to heaven doesn't imply that you HAVE to go to hell. Those who didn't do anything bad that deserves hell may as well go to purgatory(mountain thingy). And as far as I know(read) once u clear what u have done in the purgatory you will be allowed in heaven.

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

I am not a Christian, but I have been one, and I will not attempt to dissuade you from your chosen faith, however I would like to help you become aware that Modern Christianity has borrowed many things from Pagan culture and if you take a closer look at the Gospels and how they are translated from the original Greek, within the context of history, you'll find that the doctrine of "Eternal Hell" falls flat on it's face.

 

http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/origin-of-hell-fire.php

 

http://www.hell-know.net/

 

Review those sites, read through the content, conduct your own studies.

 

You'll find that the doctrine of Hell is rubbish, and that you can be a Christian without having to worry about that hanging over your head.

 

I hope this helps you a little, and I wish you the best of luck in establishing your connection with Him.

 

You'll know that you know Him when you do as He did.

 

Clothe the naked, feed the hungry, and visit your brother when he is imprisoned.

 

I would like to add that this doesn't always mean giving your money to every bum on the street...I got screwed over that way. Don't let it happen to you.

Edited April 23, 2014 by KelGrym

[Doc. Volt 2,561]

i am catholic, i pray and  i am a voluntieer of the red cross and i try to help people, but my vision of the church is very personal (someone could say heretic) being myself an engineer and being catholic just for the message of Love of the religion and because that our god gaved hmself fou our sin, he is not asking us to convert others forcelly and other stuff, i follow just that and i belive in a nice good, with lot of love for us, as long as i pray and i do good stuff for others i am ok, problem? i don't know real jesus? bah who cares i will still have a better place in hell than a murder..

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

In response to people's claims that a loving God would never condemn people who had never heard of Him—and since we seem to be discussing Biblical theology at face value—I offer Romans 1:20.

 

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they [men] are without excuse."

 

God has made Himself evident to those who would know Him, simply by the work of His hands. Mankind is without excuse for not knowing Him, and He made it clear from the very beginning that death was the alternative to obedience. Not because He has an ego to sate, or because He has poor self-esteem and needs worship to feel better, but because we literally have no purpose in existence but to know and serve and worship Him. That's why He made us.

 

Biblically speaking, when we turn from God and choose our own ways over His, we're actively choosing death, and we are fully at fault.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Henny Penny Benny

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

In the way of responding to people's claims that a loving God would never condemn people who had never heard of Him—and since we seem to be discussing Biblical theology at face value—I offer Romans 1:20.

 

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they [men] are without excuse."

 

God has made Himself evident to those who would know Him, simply by the work of His hands. Mankind is without excuse for not knowing Him, and He made it clear from the very beginning that death was the alternative to obedience. Not because He has an ego to sate, or because He has poor self-esteem and needs worship to feel better, but because we literally have no purpose in existence but to know and serve and worship Him. That's why He made us.

 

Biblically speaking, when we turn from God and choose our own ways over His, we're actively choosing death, and we are fully at fault.

 

Yeah.

 

I'll atomize that logic in a debate thread.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

Yeah.

 

I'll atomize that logic in a debate thread.

 

Precisely why I'm not using it in a debate thread. As I pointed out, this does seem to be a discussion of Biblical theology at face value, and since that happens to be something I know a bit about as a devout Christian, I figured I'd add my two cents on the matter.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Henny Penny Benny

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

Precisely why I'm not using it in a debate thread. As I pointed out, this does seem to be a discussion of Biblical theology at face value, and since that happens to be something I know a bit about, I figured I'd add my two cents on the matter.

 

Ok, that's Fair enough

 

Peace.

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,178]

This is a mane reason i stick to agnosticism.... The almighty fear of hell just kills religion for me.... And upon attending church for the first time in a decade.... I will never ever go back. No offense but church is like a weird Pastel, suit wearing prison. For the most part individuality is largely shunned (atleast within our local Methodist church.).... When I referred to the bible as a guide, I was torrented with comments that summed up too " no the bible is life, follow it or burn in hell"..... To say the least it's not for me...

[DubWolf 20,687]

There are multiple quotes that say that god has mercy on people. So why would god punish people for not knowing him. I would count that knowing the bible would be considered as knowing god. But you also must keep in minder that the bible was written by many different people. So there is going to be some differences within the text. Plus, the bible that is know today wasn't completely put together till 2 centuries after Jesus had lived. This will cause some blurring and fading of information. Additionally,   And on top of all of that, Matthew could have been wrong. After he is just human. 

Mmmm...well perhaps another question is if people would be punished if they were just not given a chance to repent and such (i.e., people who literally have not heard of Him, His son, and His word). I'm not buying into the idea that the vast morphing of the language would really morph the meaning of that verse. Jesus said this himself. I don't think Matthew would forget or mistake such words.

 

 

I would say follow your heart do what your heart tells you (on that subject I'm still skeptical of following your heart when it comes to love interest lol the heart can be dumb then so in that case follow your brain but in spiritual cases follow your heart) you seem like a genuinely nice person so you will find the way no worries as long as you treat others with respect but also respect yourself as well and learn to love yourself and others and find peace with God have faith in Him repent from the heart when you do something that is genuinely bad (and look at it as if you called your friend an asshole which isn't nice so you said sorry later because you felt bad then your friend forgives you, it's kind of the same thing) so yeah and also when you ask Him for strength and when you thank Him... in my belief even though I don't believe EVERYTHING humans say and I don't agree with some of the "sins" some religious people say they are I look to Him as a friend and parent He's guiding us in his way and just picture this your parent gave you so much love since you were born you should thank them even though is their job they still have the choice not to love you but they did and that's a thing to be thankful for and also when you need help as a kid who do you go to for help? your parents and/or mentors well I feel the same about God lots of people just have the worst misconception of him :C

 

I would say follow your heart do what your heart tells you (on that subject I'm still skeptical of following your heart when it comes to love interest lol the heart can be dumb then so in that case follow your brain but in spiritual cases follow your heart) you seem like a genuinely nice person so you will find the way no worries as long as you treat others with respect. but also respect yourself as well, and learn to love yourself and others, and find peace with God ,have faith in Him, repent from the heart when you do something that is genuinely bad (and look at it as if you called your friend an asshole which isn't nice so you said sorry later because you felt bad then your friend forgives you, it's kind of the same thing) so yeah, and also when you ask Him for strength and when you thank Him... in my belief even though I don't believe EVERYTHING humans say and I don't agree with some of the "sins" some religious people say they are I look to Him as a friend and parent. He's guiding us in his way and just picture this your parent gave you so much love since you were born you should thank them even though is their job they still have the choice not to love you but they did and that's a thing to be thankful for and also when you need help as a kid who do you go to for help? your parents and/or mentors well I feel the same about God lots of people just have the worst misconception of him :C

Did somebody break your period key on your keyboard :comeatus:? I had to fix it a little bit.

 

Thank you, you seem like a loving person c: . This is what I am being taught at the moment, and I can be willing to accept. You're basically telling me to just do your best and not worry about the consequences because they probably won't be a problem to you. For me, I'm just worrying about everyone else :\.

 

 

Well, not going to heaven doesn't imply that you HAVE to go to hell. Those who didn't do anything bad that deserves hell may as well go to purgatory(mountain thingy). And as far as I know(read) once u clear what u have done in the purgatory you will be allowed in heaven.

The Christian faith acknowledges the existence of hell as the only other option of the afterlife, if not heaven. Purgatory is "not canon" (not mentioned) in the Bible, and hence, not said from God (then again, so many things are left out or left unexplained). That would seem like an ideal happy solution. Like the Scandinavians! Yay rehabilitation!

 

 

I am not a Christian, but I have been one, and I will not attempt to dissuade you from your chosen faith, however I would like to help you become aware that Modern Christianity has borrowed many things from Pagan culture and if you take a closer look at the Gospels and how they are translated from the original Greek, within the context of history, you'll find that the doctrine of "Eternal Hell" falls flat on it's face.

 

http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/origin-of-hell-fire.php

 

http://www.hell-know.net/

 

Review those sites, read through the content, conduct your own studies.

 

You'll find that the doctrine of Hell is rubbish, and that you can be a Christian without having to worry about that hanging over your head.

 

I hope this helps you a little, and I wish you the best of luck in establishing your connection with Him.

 

You'll know that you know Him when you do as He did.

 

Clothe the naked, feed the hungry, and visit your brother when he is imprisoned.

 

I would like to add that this doesn't always mean giving your money to every bum on the street...I got screwed over that way. Don't let it happen to you.

Ehh I had a hard time trying to see what you're saying, especially in the second link @_@. If anything, it made it clear that Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to heaven (and I accept that). But I feel like it's unfair that people who are unsaved in their 80, 60, 40, 20, or even 10 years of their lives, have to spend the rest of eternity suffering...

 

 

i am catholic, i pray and  i am a voluntieer of the red cross and i try to help people, but my vision of the church is very personal (someone could say heretic) being myself an engineer and being catholic just for the message of Love of the religion and because that our god gaved hmself fou our sin, he is not asking us to convert others forcelly and other stuff, i follow just that and i belive in a nice good, with lot of love for us, as long as i pray and i do good stuff for others i am ok, problem? i don't know real jesus? bah who cares i will still have a better place in hell than a murder..

Well he does want you to know him, according to my verse. Otherwise, no matter what deeds and miracles you perform, it's off into the fire.

 

Also, the fact that murderers who believe in God will get into heaven is a common misconception. People who have murdered, but have seen the error of their ways (are Godly sorrowful about it), and have chosen to follow Jesus (and have cleaned their lives from sin) are the ones who are accepted. Heaven is a beautiful, perfect place, so it wouldn't make sense if thieves, liars, and killers roamed the streets up there, right?

 

 

In response to people's claims that a loving God would never condemn people who had never heard of Him—and since we seem to be discussing Biblical theology at face value—I offer Romans 1:20.

 

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they [men] are without excuse."

 

God has made Himself evident to those who would know Him, simply by the work of His hands. Mankind is without excuse for not knowing Him, and He made it clear from the very beginning that death was the alternative to obedience. Not because He has an ego to sate, or because He has poor self-esteem and needs worship to feel better, but because we literally have no purpose in existence but to know and serve and worship Him. That's why He made us.

 

Biblically speaking, when we turn from God and choose our own ways over His, we're actively choosing death, and we are fully at fault.

But I feel like people are to an extent trying to let God be a part of their lives, even if religion is not how they define themselves, and ultimately, because of this decision to not let God be their first priority, this leads to a lack of acceptance of Jesus, implying that second priority means not having a relationship with our savior (which, again, a relationship with our savior is a GREAT thing, that I have yet to experience!). So..I feel like people who are full of kindness and are firm believers of this faith are going to be cursed anyways because of a lack of knowing their savior, which I think, is something that could happen later on, not necessarily before literal death (maybe these people have the prerequisites, and Jesus will want to know them too for their faith and good deeds, as he wants us to know him).

 

Again, I'm saying all this out of love and not out of hatred to people who do not believe. My friends and family are important to me, and I wouldn't want ignorance or unawareness to be their doom, so I started this thread, alllllmost as a means to comfort me with beliefs that God is forgiving of all people in the end (after some disciplining, of course), not just those who repent.

[MarcelineA 126]

Mmmm...well perhaps another question is if people would be punished if they were just not given a chance to repent and such (i.e., people who literally have not heard of Him, His son, and His word). I'm not buying into the idea that the vast morphing of the language would really morph the meaning of that verse. Jesus said this himself. I don't think Matthew would forget or mistake such words.

 

 

 

Did somebody break your period key on your keyboard :comeatus:? I had to fix it a little bit.

 

Thank you, you seem like a loving person c: . This is what I am being taught at the moment, and I can be willing to accept. You're basically telling me to just do your best and not worry about the consequences because they probably won't be a problem to you. For me, I'm just worrying about everyone else :\.

 

 

The Christian faith acknowledges the existence of hell as the only other option of the afterlife, if not heaven. Purgatory is "not canon" (not mentioned) in the Bible, and hence, not said from God (then again, so many things are left out or left unexplained). That would seem like an ideal happy solution. Like the Scandinavians! Yay rehabilitation!

 

 

Ehh I had a hard time trying to see what you're saying, especially in the second link @_@. If anything, it made it clear that Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to heaven (and I accept that). But I feel like it's unfair that people who are unsaved in their 80, 60, 40, 20, or even 10 years of their lives, have to spend the rest of eternity suffering...

 

 

Well he does want you to know him, according to my verse. Otherwise, no matter what deeds and miracles you perform, it's off into the fire.

 

Also, the fact that murderers who believe in God will get into heaven is a common misconception. People who have murdered, but have seen the error of their ways (are Godly sorrowful about it), and have chosen to follow Jesus (and have cleaned their lives from sin) are the ones who are accepted. Heaven is a beautiful, perfect place, so it wouldn't make sense if thieves, liars, and killers roamed the streets up there, right?

 

 

But I feel like people are to an extent trying to let God be a part of their lives, even if religion is not how they define themselves, and ultimately, because of this decision to not let God be their first priority, this leads to a lack of acceptance of Jesus, implying that second priority means not having a relationship with our savior (which, again, a relationship with our savior is a GREAT thing, that I have yet to experience!). So..I feel like people who are full of kindness and are firm believers of this faith are going to be cursed anyways because of a lack of knowing their savior, which I think, is something that could happen later on, not necessarily before literal death (maybe these people have the prerequisites, and Jesus will want to know them too for their faith and good deeds, as he wants us to know him).

 

Again, I'm saying all this out of love and not out of hatred to people who do not believe. My friends and family are important to me, and I wouldn't want ignorance or unawareness to be their doom, so I started this thread, alllllmost as a means to comfort me with beliefs that God is forgiving of all people in the end (after some disciplining, of course), not just those who repent.

First... no offense but I find that sort of offensive (I say sort of because I'm not exactly mad and you seem nice but I'm not going to lie either) this is a social network/forum type is not an English essay and it's casual therefore I don't feel the need to... in that case then no one should use emoticons either they're not formal and I type exactly how I talk

 

And I'm sorry you're feeling like this but I'm glad you're deciding things slow, see the thing is really don't worry about what others think THEIR "salvation" (I have no other word for it) is not yours so in the end what really matters is your own belief (I mean for you because of course you're not going to try to shove your belief on anyone either) Now if it's because of parents you may have to act a bit (depending on how strict they are, if they're like my mom then DEFF try to act out until you finally get out to move on your own and THEN SLOWLY tell them how you feel if they judge you for it they're basically not following what they preach :/ )

Edited April 24, 2014 by MarcelineA

[DubWolf 20,687]

First... no offense but I find that sort of offensive (I say sort of because I'm not exactly mad and you seem nice but I'm not going to lie either) this is a social network/forum type is not an English essay and it's casual therefore I don't feel the need to... in that case then no one should use emoticons either they're not formal and I type exactly how I talk

 

And I'm sorry you're feeling like this but I'm glad you're deciding things slow, see the thing is really don't worry about what others think THEIR "salvation" (I have no other word for it) is not yours so in the end what really matters is your own belief (I mean for you because of course you're not going to try to shove your belief on anyone either) Now if it's because of parents you may have to act a bit (depending on how strict they are, if they're like my mom then DEFF try to act out until you finally get out to move on your own and THEN SLOWLY tell them how you feel if they judge you for it they're basically not following what they preach :/ )

Oh, I didn't knew you felt that way about the liberty of making comments on here. I'm just saying I will understand you better if you had the right periods and commas where they need to be (my mind couldn't separate the sentences very well). Let's forget about that, k :b?

 

And yeah, I agree I should worry about my own "salvation" first, before I can tell others to come. After all, Jesus told these fishermen to follow him, and he will make them "fishers of men" (basically, in the future they will do the same as Jesus is doing to them; spreading the good news).

Edited April 24, 2014 by Super80 Wolf

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

 

 

hh I had a hard time trying to see what you're saying, especially in the second link @_@. If anything, it made it clear that Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to heaven (and I accept that). But I feel like it's unfair that people who are unsaved in their 80, 60, 40, 20, or even 10 years of their lives, have to spend the rest of eternity suffering...

 

Well the point I was trying to make with those links, is that the doctrine of Hell can be disputed from a biblical point of view.

 

It does not mean Eternal Suffering. This notion has come from issues with translation and the catholic church borrowing "Hell" from pagan mythology.

 

What was that quote?

 

"Fear not He that can kill you in body, but he that can kill you in body and spirit," or something like that.

 

It's not called eternal punishing, it's called eternal punishment. Which means that the punishment is eternally final, but does not mean that they continue to suffer in Hell forever. It's more along the lines of simple annihilation, which really isn't a bad deal, but that's just me.

 

Eternal damnation in hell is simply a false doctrine in the church that has stuck around only because scare tactics like that have been effective in gaining converts, but that is not what Jesus really preached.

[Something Floaty 1,334]

From what I've seen of the 'believers' vs. the 'non-believers' in my life, I want to go to hell. All of the fun people are apparently going to be there.

 

However, since I find the idea of both heaven and hell laughably outdated concepts designed to control the uneducated and easily indoctrinated, I don't worry about it much. Or at all, actually. If there was a god, I would be more concerned with the horrific things he allows to occur on a daily basis than I would be with how he judged me. I'd have a word or two for him about his supposed 'glory', too.

 

Basically, I live by the words of Epicurus:

  Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. 
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. 
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? 
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

A bit simplistically put, but in essence, I do not believe in god, and if I did, I would be forced to conclude he was an incompetent, a jerk, or an incompetent jerk, so I'm perfectly happy living my life without him. I can be a good person, I can believe in the rights of all people to live and prosper free from harm, I can believe that humans have a duty to each other to better the world in any way they can and not impinge on each other's rights, all without god (or people who claim to speak for him) telling me to. It's really quite a refreshing and stress-free way to live, without this menacing invisible threat of eternal damnation or whatever else hanging over my head. 

[MarcelineA 126]

Oh, I didn't knew you felt that way about the liberty of making comments on here. I'm just saying I will understand you better if you had the right periods and commas where they need to be (my mind couldn't separate the sentences very well). Let's forget about that, k :b?

 

And yeah, I agree I should worry about my own "salvation" first, before I can tell others to come. After all, Jesus told these fishermen to follow him, and he will make them "fishers of men" (basically, in the future they will do the same as Jesus is doing to them; spreading the good news).

Well sorry if I came across rude and I'll forget it no worries but just in case I'm sorry I didn't make myself legible though I'll try when you say it like that I get that, it's just that to be completely honest that's exactly how I would be talking now lol XD (I'm basically making fun of myself here XD I've been acting like a weirdo for months o.o because of stuff) *drinks water* *tries to breathe* no worries though I'll try and wow breathing does feel good XD XD XD again sorry I made it difficult.

 

Oh yeah I totally get what you mean I would love to spread the message too but we have to do it in a way that is not imposing because in the end it's up to everyone on their own .-. (I say this because in the trouble I have got myself in, in the past XD o.o)