Twilight has become too perfect for me to care about her anymore

[TenorSounds 832]

If it's just character development, I again have to ask why Twilight is the only one who can develop to the point where she barely ever makes mistakes, while the other five cannot. Most likely because Twilight is the alicorn princess whom Hasbro is trying to market the hell out of, and they're not. 

 

I mean seriously, prior to MMC, each of the mane six were pretty much on the same level as far as development goes. Twilight never really surpassed them at any point. Then season 4 starts, and suddenly I'm just expected to believe that becoming a princess automatically made her infinitely more mature than her friends, as well as far less likely to actually do anything wrong. 

 

Sorry, but I don't see that as "development." Because, to me, there's honestly nothing that justifies that. I mean, if she was just reasonably a bit more mature than her friends, and reasonably less prone to make mistakes, I would understand it. But as it stands now, Twilight is on a far higher level than that of her friends, and it seems to be only because of marketing reasons. 

 

Well every point I could make has been made, so I guess this is just a case of agree to disagree. The criteria you set in order for Twilight's changes to be considered "development" seem arbitrarily high (or low, depending on the context) to me, and unless that criteria changes it's just arguing subjective opinions as to what constitutes character development.

[SBaby 660]

The thing is, the fact that Twilight changes over the course of the series shows that she isn't a Mary Sue.  Mary Sues typically go through little to no character development, because they don't have flaws they can grow from.  But Twilight has changed significantly from being a recluse, to becoming outgoing and friendly, to being a leader, and finally standing as a hero and a Princess.  It isn't like she did this overnight.  She earned this over the course of the series.

 

Mary Sues can usually do all of the above with no effort.  But we've seen Twilight's effort.  This isn't like Cynthia or Diantha from Pokémon, where she's an unstoppable champion with countless fans from the moment she's introduced.  Twilight had to earn her place, and she still makes mistakes on occasion.

Edited December 16, 2014 by SBaby

[long gone 8,929]

I agree with this notion that the show leans too Twilight-centric. For a show called "Friendship is Magic", it seems to go out of its way to take other characters out of the plot to focus on Twilight. I'm not going to bow to the "Twilight is the main character" excuse, because not showing collective effort and support is against the show's main message.

 Twilight did not appear in three S4 episodes, two S3 episodes and three S2 episodes, and for most of S4, she played a minor role while other M6 ponies got the spotlight. If you're going to claim something, back it up.

 

The thing is, the fact that Twilight changes over the course of the series shows that she isn't a Mary Sue.  Mary Sues typically go through little to no character development, because they don't have flaws they can grow from.  But Twilight has changed significantly from being a recluse, to becoming outgoing and friendly, to being a leader, and finally standing as a hero and a Princess.  It isn't like she did this overnight.  She earned this over the course of the series.

 

Mary Sues can usually do all of the above with no effort.  But we've seen Twilight's effort.  This isn't like Cynthia or Diantha from Pokémon, where she's an unstoppable champion with countless fans from the moment she's introduced.  Twilight had to earn her place, and she still makes mistakes on occasion.

You have shot down every single "LOL TWILIGHT IS A MARY SUE!" argument ever. Well done <3

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

 Twilight did not appear in three S4 episodes, two S3 episodes and three S2 episodes, and for most of S4, she played a minor role while other M6 ponies got the spotlight. If you're going to claim something, back it up.

Sure.

 

"The Crystal Empire"

"Princess Twilight Sparkle"

"Twilight's Kingdom"

 

I do not need to say any more about the two-parters, except that even when there were chances to use the other characters, they were convenienced out of the plot one way or another. Sure Spike got the credit for "The Crystal Empire", but who was the one who did most of the work? Who was the one who got the test?

 

Even when the other characters do get focus in the other episodes, many of the overarching themes are centered mainly on Twilight. "Magical Mystery Cure" did include her friends, but was mainly about how Twilight wrote the spell and got the credit for it.

 

Then, of course, the final episode of the key arc had to give Twilight the biggest show possible. However, I'm not saying it's all bad. Thankfully, the ending it gives us leaves potential for the other five to play a larger part in the overarching themes of the show next season.

Edited December 16, 2014 by North Wind

[long gone 8,929]

Ya know, the anti-Twilicorn hate has gotten to the point where people are making up reasons to hate her. Just let it go.

 

A Mary Sue is a character who, by definition, doesn't develop. Twilight has developed. She's powerful, yes, but she is still prone to mistakes (unless of course you cherry-pick scenes that make her seem absolutely perfect and immune to mistakes) and she still is prone to getting mad or freaking out over minor details being wrong. A Mary Sue wouldn't.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

Well every point I could make has been made, so I guess this is just a case of agree to disagree. The criteria you set in order for Twilight's changes to be considered "development" seem arbitrarily high (or low, depending on the context) to me, and unless that criteria changes it's just arguing subjective opinions as to what constitutes character development.

 

I suppose so. But I do have to ask: Is it not at least possible that Twilight is made to look appealing because of Hasbro's desire to market her above everyone else? 

 

I mean, I can't imagine that it was enough for them that she was simply an alicorn now. They're pretty heavy on marketing Princess Twilight, and thus it definitely makes sense to me that this would be the case. Like I said, it's not even debatable how much better she looks than her friends now: she's considerably more powerful than them, considerably smarter than them, comes up with the solution to their problems more often than not, is nowhere near as flawed as they are now, and rarely makes mistakes while they still do. 

 

It's pretty damn clear to me that we're meant to see her as superior to her friends. And it wasn't always like this, because they all used to be on the same level. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by Cleverclover

[Castle Bleck 19,446]

Then why does she keep needing the Elements Of Harmony / Crystal Heart / Rainbow Power / etc.?

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

So from what I'm seeing here, there are a lot of buzz words thrown around and a lot of assumptions on what makes a character a good character.

 

First off, I hear the word Mary Sue thrown around a lot. Just because a character gets new found powers doesn't make them a Mary Sue. Also, what about all the screw ups Twilight had? Like trying to learn how to fly?

 

I'm also seeing a lot of comparisons to Superman. You know, I'm seeing a lot of implication that Superman is bad just because it is perfect. A character doesn't have to be relatable to be perfect. Some of the greatest characters in media like Superman, Darth Vader, and hananlector are not relatable but are still considered great characters. And as for the show becoming more about Twilight, may I point you

To the key episodes?

[Castle Bleck 19,446]

So from what I'm seeing here, there are a lot of buzz words thrown around and a lot of assumptions on what makes a character a good character.

 

First off, I hear the word Mary Sue thrown around a lot. Just because a character gets new found powers doesn't make them a Mary Sue. Also, what about all the screw ups Twilight had? Like trying to learn how to fly?

 

I'm also seeing a lot of comparisons to Superman. You know, I'm seeing a lot of implication that Superman is bad just because it is perfect. A character doesn't have to be relatable to be perfect. Some of the greatest characters in media like Superman, Darth Vader, and hananlector are not relatable but are still considered great characters. And as for the show becoming more about Twilight, may I point you

To the key episodes?

 

Superman's actually relatable for having to walk on eggshells almost all the time, and Darth Vader's actually relatable for being so far into the wrong crowd that it seems impossible to turn back.

Edited December 16, 2014 by A.V.

[Jeric 46,880]

 

 

I suppose so. But I do have to ask: Is it not at least possible that Twilight is made to look appealing because of Hasbro's desire to market her above everyone else? 

 

I don't know if that statement is valid anymore. In the past I have seen more Pinkie and Dash marketing than the other characters. I normally don't make a definitive statement to that effect since I have yet to see any quantitative data.  Now if you look at the granular level of the long form marketing (also known as the show proper), I bet when thedziadek1990 is done with the Season 4 Screen Time Analysis, the other characters will have some parity with her. 

 

Need data. Tasty data. 

[Singe 2,111]

The odd thing about Twilight Sparkle is that she takes "friendship" and in some way magically weaponizes it to smite her enemies. She's down this path that the only way to beat evil is to blast it with the power of friendship. You don't really see her utilizing the basic diplomatic skills to convince the evil person to stop or finding alternative methods that doesn't lead to a magical blast.

 

That's just my take.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Singe

[WindyParadise 59]

The odd thing about Twilight Sparkle is that she takes "friendship" and in some way magically weaponizes it to smite her enemies. She's down this path that the only way to beat evil is to blast it with the power of friendship. You don't really see her utilizing the basic diplomatic skills to convince the evil person to stop or finding alternative methods that doesn't lead to a magical blast.

 

That's just my take.

I think that's more of a show-wide concern than specifically just Twilight. But I still hold my position that Season 5 will help us determine what direction the show(and Twilight) are heading toward.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

The odd thing about Twilight Sparkle is that she takes "friendship" and in some way magically weaponizes it to smite her enemies. She's down this path that the only way to beat evil is to blast it with the power of friendship. You don't really see her utilizing the basic diplomatic skills to convince the evil person to stop or finding alternative methods that doesn't lead to a magical blast.

 

That's just my take.

I don't know about that, but one thing's for sure: she sure is quick to whip out a spell for just about anything, almost to the point of recklessness. So yeah, I suppose you could say she still has that as a flaw. 

 

Even with the "breezy" spell, it really would have been nice if Twilight actually gotten consent from the rest of her friends before she just went ahead and tampered with their bodies on a molecular level. She didn't even tell them what she was going to do. Honestly, after the incident in Bats, I definitely would not have trusted Twilight with my body. It's good for her that none of them ended up minding, but I don't really think she could have known that they wouldn't. 

 

Think back to Sonic Rainboom when she made sure she had Rarity's consent before she tested the wing spell on her. Perhaps having all this new power has made her more careless. 

[TenorSounds 832]

I don't know about that, but one thing's for sure: she sure is quick to whip out a spell for just about anything, almost to the point of recklessness. So yeah, I suppose you could say she still has that as a flaw. 

 

Even with the "breezy" spell, it really would have been nice if Twilight actually gotten consent from the rest of her friends before she just went ahead and tampered with their bodies on a molecular level. She didn't even tell them what she was going to do. Honestly, after the incident in Bats, I definitely would not have trusted Twilight with my body. It's good for her that none of them ended up minding, but I don't really think she could have known that they wouldn't. 

 

Think back to Sonic Rainboom when she made sure she had Rarity's consent before she tested the wing spell on her. Perhaps having all this new power has made her more careless. 

 

You're literally describing character development, up to and including potential new flaws rooted in prior successes.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

Where's the "development" part of that? I was saying that she seemed to be a lot less careless in previous seasons than she is now. Case in point being that she made sure she had Rarity's consent before performing a complicated spell to alter her body, as opposed to not bothering to get anyone's consent except for Pinkie's (who obviously has been shown to care less about such things, given that she actually once thought that cloning herself was a good idea) when she cast an even more complicated spell to transform their entire species. 

[TenorSounds 832]

Where's the "development" part of that? I was saying that she seemed to be a lot less careless in previous seasons than she is now. Case in point being that she made sure she had Rarity's consent before performing a complicated spell to alter her body, as opposed to not bothering to get anyone's consent except for Pinkie's (who obviously has been shown to care less about such things, given that she actually once thought that cloning herself was a good idea) when she cast an even more complicated spell to transform their entire species. 

 

I interpreted you pointing out she didn't ask other characters permission before casting the spells as a negative trait, a failing of pride and ego, and as we should all be aware characters can develop negative traits in addition to positive ones.

 

Her positive development of increased power, responsibility and maturity being contrasted by the negative development of a more prominent ego, possibly brought on by a sense of duty she's not accustomed to shouldering? That's interesting. That's character development. Of course the writers could take those developments and utilize (or ignore) them in terrible, lazy ways, but the decisions they've made so far aren't inherently bad.

Edited December 18, 2014 by TenorSounds

[Larkybird~ 734]

I interpreted you pointing out she didn't ask other characters permission before casting the spells as a negative trait, a failing of pride and ego.

 

Characters can develop negative traits in addition to positive ones; her positive development of increased power, responsibility and maturity being contrasted by the negative development of a more prominent ego, possibly brought on by a sense of duty she's not accustomed to shouldering? That's interesting. That's character development. Of course the writers could take those developments and utilize (or ignore) them in terrible, lazy ways, but the decisions they've made so far aren't inherently bad.

Basically this sums it up quite nicely. She. Has. Developed. Does someone have to come in and carve that into your mind somehow. She isn't perfect. Obviously she's going to know plenty of spells because she studies often and she's the element of MAGIC. So she's gained a bit of an ego so what? So she's gained negative personality traits, again so what. Do you honest to god think she's just a rude careless b----h op? Are we even watching the same freakin show? Judging by your posts I don't think we are.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

Well, to be quite honest, I don't see her increased power as positive development in the first place, mostly because it can apparently now be used in such a way that she can serve as a living dues ex machina. 

 

It's also just one of those things that puts her on an entirely different level than the other five, as they would now probably have to struggle to accomplish something that Twilight could easily solve in two seconds with a spell. Her abilities always had a sense of balance before, but I don't think that's the case now, since it's entirely possible that the breezy spell would have been permanent change, at least until it was reversed. 

 

In fact, a good idea for an episode now would be to have Twilight leave her friends for some super secret princessy business and have the mane 5 attempt to solve issues without her being there to give them the answers, or to whip out a spell when they need one. 

[Shadow Wind 56]

She can be as powerful as she want's I would still win in a fight.      Why? Because I'm that good. *flexes* 

[Fawkes The Phoenix 737]

Seems a little unfair to dislike a pony for improving themselves.

 

I agree. It should be an inspiration for the people who relate to the flaws of that character to grow. Besides, S3 Twilight was almost as "perfect" as S4 Twilight. And she's always been overpowered.

Have you seen Rainbow Rocks? the whole movie was about how Twilight isn't supossed to be perfect. And she isn't.

[Singe 2,111]

I agree. It should be an inspiration for the people who relate to the flaws of that character to grow. Besides, S3 Twilight was almost as "perfect" as S4 Twilight. And she's always been overpowered.

Have you seen Rainbow Rocks? the whole movie was about how Twilight isn't supossed to be perfect. And she isn't.

 

The problem with Equestria Girls movies is artificial limitations. Twilight Sparkle stops being FIM Twilight Sparkle and is instead replaced with a weaker human teenager version set on an alien world. She loses a number of her key character aspects.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Singe

[Fawkes The Phoenix 737]

The problem with Equestria Girls movies is artificial limitations. Twilight Sparkle stops being FIM Twilight Sparkle and is instead replaced with a weaker human teenager version set on an alien world. She loses a number of her key character aspects.

 

No she doesn't. She's still the same Twilight but in another body. It doesn't matter if she looks like a humanoid alien teenager.

[Tameless 980]

I agree Twilight has changed. Nopony is perfect though. She does have her own hobbies and such. Although I know what you are trying to say. 

[Singe 2,111]

No she doesn't. She's still the same Twilight but in another body. It doesn't matter if she looks like a humanoid alien teenager.

 

FIM Twilight loses her natural unicorn magic which is a major backbone of her character for both the big and small things about her, along with having to adapt to her new body relearning small skills like writing.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Singe

[Fawkes The Phoenix 737]

FIM Twilight loses her unicorn magic which is a major backbone of her character for both the big and small things about her, along with having to adapt to her new body relearning small skills like writing.

 

Rather than magic, she loves knowledge, which is something she still can use everywhere she wants. She's more than an overpowered unicorn...

 

Anyway, i can see what you mean, but i don't think that's a bad thing.