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If Celestia doesn't appear in the upcoming Season 5 premiere....


Cleverclover

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That's actually kind of laughable, no offense. How much the character shows up is almost entirely how their worth to the show is gauged. You can't actually be arguing that if she didn't show up at all, she's still a valuable character, can you?

 

It is not laughable and not incorrect. There are plenty of examples in narrative that create characterization without character presentation. A perfect example of this is Lord of the Rings and Sauron.

 

 

 

Starswirl The Bearded hasn't shown up as an actual character at all, and he is very popular...

 

 

Also relevant to my point, thank you Brechard. The absence of a character is not the absence of characterization. The viewer can reasonably apply in-show commentary to build their interpretation of Starswirl's personality. This is a natural collaborative function of art. Using that same principle, an interpretation of Celestia that does not marginalize her role is perfectly acceptable. 

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It is not laughable and not incorrect. There are plenty of examples in narrative that create characterization without character presentation. A perfect example of this is Lord of the Rings and Sauron.

Go on, explain that please.

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Celestia is one of my favorite characters in the show and as such, I would really like to see her more. But at the same time, I imagine that she is a rather difficult character to write for. The safe zone for Celestia was her mother/mentor role to Twilight and later the rest of her friends. But now, Twilight is on equal standing with her former mentor and now she's without much of a narrative role, as Clover has written. Her roles are now mostly off-screen aside from a few words of wisdom to help Twilight through a problem. While she is capable of finding a solution, Twilight still needs Celestia just as she needs her other friends as well, but perhaps not as much.

 

Celestia plays perhaps the most important, in-universe role as the guardian of the Sun. She also mediates the politics of Equestria as a whole. But let's be honest, the target demographic isn't interested in seeing that stuff, so of course it's not going to be shown. Perhaps if the writing team actually seemed to know what they were doing with this world's history instead of giving us contradictions, maybe Celestia could serve the expository purpose of giving the world some concrete history since, y'know, she was actually there for it. >_>

 

But aside from all that, we must all ask ourselves honestly: do we even want Celestia, and by extension the other Princesses, to have a larger role in the show? The first immediate answer I'm sure most of us have is a resounding YES! However, we must consider some things. When it comes to enigmatic characters like the Princesses, the thing that makes them so endearing is that we don't really know anything about them. They're so mysterious, so powerful and so capable, we're left to our own devices for figuring out who and what they are. In all honesty, if these questions are answered definitively, I don't think we'd be happy with it no matter the answer. Because at this point who and what they are is finally solidified and now we're left with the result of grounding these characters who at the end of the day aren't really meant to be grounded anyway.

 

Take The Journal of the Two Sisters for example. It was the series' one true attempt to ground Celestia and Luna with some personal history outside of two key events over a thousand years apart. It tried to answer questions we've all had since day one and yet, I've never met a person who genuinely liked it. Don't get me wrong, I didn't either. Whenever new source material is put out, I always try to do whatever I can to integrate it into my headcanon, no matter how much I disagree or don't like it; I can always make it work. But when the Journal came out, it was the first time that I had actively tried to subvert its inclusion into canon, tried to find some way to make it insignificant or just non-applicable all together. Why? Because it completely shot my Alicorn Lore headcanon in the face. I mean a twelve-gauge, double-barrel, point-blank shotgun blast to the face. It was then that I realized that I didn't like this attempt at answering questions about Alicorns. But more, I wouldn't like any answer that could be put out. Why? Because like I said, enigmatic characters like Celestia and Luna are so endearing because we don't know anything about them, we can put our own spin and ideas into the fray and still have them be plausible. But to have definitive answers to these questions, even if it's exactly what you came up with, still won't make anyone happy because even if you have it right, part of the endearment is that there's always the possibility that you're wrong, because at the end of the day we know nothing about them.

 

At least for products like comics, story books and the like, if there are answers to questions that we don't like, we can always plead plausible deniability because their canon status is ambiguous. If you want them to be canon, they can be. If you want them to be standalone, they can be. Both sides work. But to have these questions answered on-screen, plausible deniability goes right out the window and we are forced to deal with whatever changes may come, just like the Twilicorn scandal. Though, admittedly, I was cautiously optimistic about the Twilicorn thing right from the beginning. But the point is that with a character like Celestia who has fulfilled the original purpose of her characterization, further elaboration and screentime would mean answering questions that in our hearts, we really don't want to be answered.

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to be honest...I've been questioning her role even before the season 5 trailer. I have an idea (which totally will never happen in the show) that Twilight is a replacement for sunbutt. In the season 2 finale we see Celestia actually get defeated by Chrysalis, right? It came into my mind recently that this actually scared Celestia; not believing she could defend her own kingdom anymore. This is why she ascended Twily...she knew that Twilight was gifted and powerful and would make an excellent Princess. Because of this, she would also be an excellent potential heir alongside Luna.

 

Does anyone see what I'm getting at? Celestia knows she isn't the same powerful goddess she was. It's kinda the reason she stays out of serious business; so she doesn't fail again.

 

BUT like I said, this is probably a completely silly idea XD

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People give this character too much hate. Sure, it would be better if she became a character in her own right, but it's not required. As it stands, she's part of the world building, someone for the mane 6 to look up to, a voice of wisdom, and the mission giver.

 

If the show explored her faults and regrets though, that would be very nice, because she's not the MOST developed character in the world, although I do think she's needed and I don't by any means hate her.

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To me it seems McCarthy really doesn't know what to do with her. Larson hinted at what could be a princess episode. It's now wait and see I guess. Which is a shame, cause Celestia has a ton of worldbuilding potential considering how long she's been around and her mysterious origins.

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  • 1 month later...

Well, what do you know? Useless princess is indeed useless. 

 

I guess we'll see Celestia again when she's ready to make another non-speaking cameo or something. On the bright side, I guess McCarthy won't have a chance to knock her down again. 

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To be fair, I can't for the life of me figure out a moment when she could have reasonably made an appearance. Outside of a brief mention off screen maybe or a scene in the very beginning, Celestia showing up would have actually disrupted the flow of the story. Give it time, the season's just started after all.

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Well, what do you know? Useless princess is indeed useless. 

 

I guess we'll see Celestia again when she's ready to make another non-speaking cameo or something. On the bright side, I guess McCarthy won't have a chance to knock her down again. 

If she is useless how come nothing particularly bad happened under her reign before the mane six became friends. It is obviously them that are useless, *makes new mane six* XD

I think you might want one of these.

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What situation exactly?

 

That she can't swoop in and save the day because she's not a main character and the Mane Six are required to?

That she got creamed by a changeling (while Luna, I guess, SLEPT through it all) that had been building up power by siphoning off the love of her nephew in law for an unknown period of time?

That her "bad" (read desperate) decisions in Twilight's Kingdom where questioned by NO ONE ELSE, thus if you think she's dumb, than so is everyone else involved (Luna, Cadence, Twilight, etc). That she said, "don't tell your friends about your new powers" and Twilight decided that also meant "don't tell them that Discord has turned on us".

 

I don't really see a "situation".

Celestia is a cool character with a lot of potential. But she's under utilized because she's the super powered motherly presence.

There's a reason "Superman stays out of Gotham". Celestia can't take care of everyone's problems for both in-universe and meta reasons.

 

They need to give her more attention like they do with Luna. It's really not hard, but I think they're either afraid to try or have too much to do with the Mane Six, plus the CMC, and Spike. But I don't really mind if it takes a long time for them to get to it.

Even if they don't get to it, the fans will take care of it.

 

The OP argues that she's useless to the show because she's not useful to Twilight.

And if you read the other posts I've made here, I argue that neither of these things are true.

 

I see what you're saying but I do think Celestia could be a bit more useful overall. Aside from lending Twi her power in the S4 finale she's been utterly useless against all the main villains. As the OP says she's basically the mission giver.


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Celestia will always be around to give Twilight guidence from experience. But, it is just a matter of time before she is replaced by the mane six. I would like Celestia to play a bigger role, Luna and Cadance too! I think as twilights involvement in her princeess duties become a bigger theme in the show, we will see a lot more of them. Possible, all four of them working together in an episode.

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Well, I saw the opening episodes & Celestia wasn't in them.  IIRC, this is the 1st 2 parter she didn't have a cameo.  It looks like the map table is going to fill her role of sending them on missions :(

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It looks like the map table is going to fill her role of sending them on missions :(

Hmm.  Celestia has been replaced by an automated system...  this reminds me of something...what was it?

 

Oh yeah:

 

REAL LIFE

 

 

This is really sad, if this is going to be how it is.  Celestia's role doesn't need to be the same, but they don't need to write her out of the show.  There's so much potential.  I really want to see more of the sisters, and Cadence.  I want them to develop their characters.

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I would really like to see at least one whole episode based around the daily life of Celestia or Luna so we could understand why they are absent most of the time, because their is a lot we don't know about the two main princesses.


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I wholeheartedly agree with OP on this. However, deep down inside, there is the fascination with Celestia, as she is an enigma. No one knows her story or her origins. Nobody knows the extent of her true powers, We all just take it for granted that she's princess because Lauren says she is princess. Maybe one day the screen writers will help out and put Tia back in the action, though I doubt it since the writers changed out after season 2.

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(edited)

In my opinion, none of the other princesses were needed in this.

What's the storyline were looking at?

The Mane 6 travel to a strange village where everypony has the same Cutie Mark, and later on, their Cutie Marks are taken too.

Where is Celestia needed in that?

Celesta may not of known the village even existed.

 

Celestia has a significant role in Equestria as the empire's main princess. She has appeared in every 2 part sequel/episode except this one.

But something was different about those. What is it?

They all involved a somewhat role duty at the Canterlot castle, the Crystal Empire, and Ponyville in Return of Harmony and Friendship is Magic:

Friendship is Magic: Starts in Canterlot but the rest is in Ponyville and the Everfree Forest

Return of Harmony: The adventure happens in Canterlot but the rest is in Ponyville

A Canterlot Wedding: Happens in Canterlot

The Crystal Empire: A little in Canterlot, the rest in the Crystal Empire

Princess Twilight Sparkle: A little bit in Canterlot and the rest in Ponyville or the Everfree Forest

Twilight's Kingdom: Starts in Crystal Empire, then goes to Canterlot for a bit, but ends in Ponyville

Cutiemarkless: Starts in Ponyville, ends in this strange village

Name one other place where 'Strange village' is a setting. Just my point.

This one doesn't involve Celestia giving Twilight a quest. In all the other ones it's either Celestia giving Twilight a quest or a quest that involves the Elements of Harmony in their physical forms.

 

This was Twilight's first quest to show friendship in Equestria. But it wasn't Celestia who gave her the quest. The castle did.

There's also the sheer fact that there wouldn't be anywhere to fit Celestia. This was a problem of Twilight and her friends.

Edited by RivkaBobble

sig-32529.sig-32529.derpy_hooves___put_away_mailbag_by_rj_p-d62jp07.gifMail carrier Derpy is best pony​ derpy_emoticon1.png

 

But Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie are cool too

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Well it happened, Celestia did not show up in the S5 premier, in all honesty I've never felt much attachment to her, I think she might show up in the finale though, maybe Starlight will try to steal her cutie mark.


No matter how hard I try these ponies will simply never leave me.

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