How come no one gets mad when Fluttershy throws RD's fears in her face?

[Jeric 46,851]

 

Ok, this is an interesting question posed by the OP. I am reopening this thread. Here's the deal guys - this topic is not about debating whether RD is likable. It's off topic, and the approach in the discussion was getting far too personal. I love passionate discussions - but let's not bait members by stating "I'm right and you are wrong and you can't defend it." That is not how we function here. 

 

I'm going to put this on the table, discuss maturely, keep it on topic, and respect the other persons opinion or you will be disallowed from participating in this topic.

 

This topic was starting to do this to Dashie. 

 

[Megachangeling12 109]

Yeah .. Sorry dash we still love you .( pats her head ). Anyway back on topic everyone !

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Simple. Fluttershy was actually making a kind statement, if somewhat naive, as is her nature.

Whereas Pinkie has been shown not to be so naive, and yet screams at Fluttershy in a very unkind way regardless.

They're simply not comparable.

[Littlecandylulu903 415]

Maybe Fluttershy wasn't being sarcastic, just humorously oblivious.

[Cloud Strife 928]

Ok, this is an interesting question posed by the OP. I am reopening this thread. Here's the deal guys - this topic is not about debating whether RD is likable. It's off topic, and the approach in the discussion was getting far too personal. I love passionate discussions - but let's not bait members by stating "I'm right and you are wrong and you can't defend it." That is not how we function here. 

 

I'm sorry if my comments are the ones that this post is referring to. I actually wasn't that upset about the direction the conversation was going, but it might've come across that way in my posts. I did try to redirect the topic back where it needed to be, but unfortunately I admit I got a little caught up in talking about Rainbow because of the multitude of comments about her.

 

I will restate something that I did say in one of my posts that was hidden that is relevant to this topic: that to me, I'm not personally bothered by Pinkie Pie doing something potentially bad so long as she gets punishment for it in some way. In Fluttershy's case, it felt a bit more justified as Rainbow had, earlier in the episode, insulted her. For Pinkie Pie, though, there was no real provocation. I do think that bias is somewhere in how people treat Fluttershy, but I also think, as I asserted earlier in the thread, that the circumstances are not all that identical.

[Cwanky 17,588]

I am just curious, but does anyone actually have the clip of where Fluttershy allegedly berates Rainbow?

[Pastel 7,630]

I am just curious, but does anyone actually have the clip of where Fluttershy allegedly berates Rainbow?

I think the OP was talking about this scene:

I couldn't find a video on Youtube: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23xhy8_my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-s1e16-sonic-rainboom-hd-english_shortfilms go to 7:55

Edited March 10, 2015 by Blobulle

[Littlepip3000 111]

That's not even the worst of Fluttershy's offenses. There's a reasonable case to be made that she is a selfish hypocrite who has no issue with goading and forcing her friends into difficult situations and then not reciprocating, pulling the usual "fear" victim card as a cheap excuse. The following is an excerpt from a discussion I had over this same issue 2 years ago(modified for consistency's sake, I will provide the link to the conversation unedited for validation):

"One thing that still frustrates me about Fluttershy is her complete and absolute unwillingness to do things she doesn’t like to for her friends, no matter how much it means to them, but has no problem turning around and putting them into the same situation(s)."

"[Green Isn't your Color is the]only time she’s been forced to do something she didn’t want to, as opposed to several instances she’s goaded her friends into doing something for her that they didn’t want to(making Dash watch the butterfly migration with her, and then not returning the favor for the dragon migration that [the other person] mentioned). Plus there are the countless occasions in which she’s tried to throw a pity-party for herself to get out of doing something. Trying to shirk out of the jousting competition because she was "scared", and trying repeatedly to ditch her friends when they went to throw out the dragon polluting their skies. Point is, Fluttershy forces her friends to do things for her that they don’t want to and then lies, cries, and violently bashes her way out of doing similar things in return(referring to dragon migration again) and then some."

"And if [other person is] gonna mention the difference between partaking in something boring versus partaking in something fear-inducing then let me ask [other person] this: how many episodes have been made about Fluttershy over-coming her fears and becoming more assertive? Yeah, that’s what I thought. If you’re going to make your friends do things for you that they flat-out do not want to then you better be prepared to do the same f***ing thing in return, regardless of what pansy phobias you’ve supposedly "overcome" yet still conveniently possess for excuses’ sake."

Honestly now, if we're going to read deeply into the show like it's something tangible to be debated over then Fluttershy has NO redeeming qualities outside of her looks. She is a selfish, manipulative, hypocrite.

(The original conversation can be read here. Again, I have not modified this copied version other than what you have seen in the brackets, which were done for ease of following the point being made.)
 

[TwilightDreamer 69]

It's a stretch that many people tend to use since many people, when they see her moments in the show, they seemed to somehow have some sort of connection with her concerning her conflicting personalities when she was faced with moments of a huge range of emotions such as happiness, anger and her phobia along with her timid nature.

 

Fluttershy has something of a huge image and realistic representation of pure innocence, an image that has been abused with many popular characters that can worm their way into people/fan's hearts but they can be manipulated so they can virtually have no flaws which can be a huge mistake since they could be too perfect even if Fluttershy has such a range of flaws herself that make her unique compared to others.

 

It's mainly to the decision of the writers and how they would take in the immense response to the fanbases on how they would react to particular characters.

[toonami97 25]

guess it seen as wat FS did was accidental while PP was more on purpose or rubbing it in way

[Light Diamond 950]

I think this is one of the better things that can emerge from this topic. Perfect is nonexistent, and all interpretations of "perfect" are vulnerable to subjectivity (and therefore, themselves, imperfect and inconsistent). Flawed is interesting. I don't mean that everypony has to be an amnesiac with a dark past and an enduring drinking problem. But flaws ARE character. Flaws facilitate moments of personal growth and triumphant moments during which obstacles are defeated. Imaginary perfection is boring and, again, has about eight bazillion different faces.

 

Rainbow Dash isn't perfect. But, in being flawed, she's perfect the way she is.

Yes, both Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash are imperfect and vulnerable to criticisms in the sense that they are both flawed as characters. They have both developed and grown since Season 1 though.

 

As for the topic, when Fluttershy does do something wrong she should be told that it was wrong.

 

Also for the Pinkie comments, what she said seemed more intentional in Fili Vanilli.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Light Diamond

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Oh and one more detail. Dash was specifically hiding her fears such that Fluttershy didn't know she was "throwing Dash's fears in her face". Rarity was the only one who even noticed the stage fright.

 

Meanwhile, everyone knows Fluttershy has stage fright, and even if Pinkie was trying to help, she specifically targeted Fluttershy's fears and pointed them out, not to mention broke her own rule about sensitivity from season 1.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

It had to be because it was in Season 1. We were just getting to know these characters and they definitely weren't as far along in their development as they were in Season 4. Fluttershy, being socially awkward as she is, could be expected to make a mistake like this. Pinkie Pie had shown improved maturity in more recent episodes leading up to "Filli Vanilli". Pinkie making socially awkward mistakes like that would have been acceptable had it not been exaggerated to make her look like a dunce and exploited for humor.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

Because Fluttershy is apparently immune from criticism because she's, "The cute one."

 

What if I were to tell you that I find Pinkie cuter?

[Mesme Rize 15,683]

Because Fluttershy is apparently immune from criticism because she's, "The cute one."

 

What if I were to tell you that I find Pinkie cuter?

 

I would hope that you're not pretending, because if you do, there is gonna be hell to pay. :okiedokielokie:

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

I would hope that you're not pretending, because if you do, there is gonna be hell to pay. :okiedokielokie:

Well it just so happens that I'm not pretending. Pinkie is cutest pony.

[Mesme Rize 15,683]

I would hope that you're not pretending, because if you do, there is gonna be hell to pay. :okiedokielokie:

 

Well she is cuter then Fluttershy, but cutest?

 

But that's for another thread.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

It had to be because it was in Season 1. We were just getting to know these characters and they definitely weren't as far along in their development as they were in Season 4. Fluttershy, being socially awkward as she is, could be expected to make a mistake like this. Pinkie Pie had shown improved maturity in more recent episodes leading up to "Filli Vanilli". Pinkie making socially awkward mistakes like that would have been acceptable had it not been exaggerated to make her look like a dunce and exploited for humor.

Season 1, Episode 5

Pinkie Pie: WHAT? [spits] Nononononono, we can't prank Fluttershy, I mean, she's so sensitive. It'll hurt her feelings, even our most harmless prank!

[Jeric 46,851]

I think people get too worked up over out of character moments personally. Most of the time these are best viewed as momentary flaws that add depth to the dynamism of the character. It makes them all more real to me since in real life, no one acts as consistently as people expect in fiction. Hell, I would hate to think my friends and family would raise their pitchforks if I had a momentary lapse of judgement or a bad day. I prefer complexity to simplicity any day of the week, and three times on Saturday (cause I sleep on Saturday so I I can be more active in my preferences). 

 

To the point:

 

Why do people view one moment differently than another when they have a surface similarity? Bias, crowd mentality, the human mind recognizes the nuanced difference between the two, the writers have it out for the audience, they didn't tear up a sticky note? Take your pick.

[Thrashy 2,800]

Simple: Fluttershy gets a free pass at any ill behavior because she has risen through the ranks and achieved the image of "fandom sweetheart", while Rainbow - once the de facto mascot of the fandom - has fallen into disfavor. To such a degree, in fact, that ripping on her seems like it's the trendy thing to do nowadays. So yeah, it's really no surprise that nobody takes issue with FS wronging anyone (especially if it's RD), but the moment someone wrongs her, "ERMAFERKINGERD, ERM'A KERL U!"

 

Also, quite the overreaction by FS in the episode where she's so adverse to accompanying Rainbow to [something I can't quite recall atm, I think it was watching a dragon migration] that she stomps the shit outta her before fleeing out the window. I always seem to hear the argument that Rainbow was in the wrong for trying to coerce FS, but…y'know, I can't seem to recall the last time I just hauled off and socked my best friend in the gut for trying to strong-arm me into something I didn't want to do. All things considered, I have to go out on a limb and say that Rainbow's a pretty awesome pony for not holding that against her.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

 

 

Simple: Fluttershy gets a free pass at any ill behavior because she has risen through the ranks and achieved the image of "fandom sweetheart", while Rainbow - once the de facto mascot of the fandom - has fallen into disfavor. To such a degree, in fact, that ripping on her seems like it's the trendy thing to do nowadays. So yeah, it's really no surprise that nobody takes issue with FS wronging anyone (especially if it's RD), but the moment someone wrongs her, "ERMAFERKINGERD, ERM'A KERL U!"

For proof of that, look through some of the comments of this video and see all the death threats towards Gilda.

 

[Cloud Strife 928]

"And if [other person is] gonna mention the difference between partaking in something boring versus partaking in something fear-inducing then let me ask [other person] this: how many episodes have been made about Fluttershy over-coming her fears and becoming more assertive? Yeah, that’s what I thought. If you’re going to make your friends do things for you that they flat-out do not want to then you better be prepared to do the same f***ing thing in return, regardless of what pansy phobias you’ve supposedly "overcome" yet still conveniently possess for excuses’ sake."

 

 

Here's the thing - Fluttershy overcoming a specific fear in a specific episode does not serve as a counterargument to that. Yes, Fluttershy did brave herself up against a dragon in Dragonshy, but she only did that because the dragon threatened her friends. That doesn't somehow mean she's not afraid of dragons still; it means her buttons were pushed in a certain way that she couldn't stand by and watch anymore. Just because you took a bullet for someone doesn't mean you're not afraid of guns.

 

The only episode that was explicitly about Fluttershy learning to be assertive outwardly was Putting Your Hoof Down. Every other episode that was supposedly about Fluttershy asserting herself was much more about Fluttershy overcoming her mental hurdles. It's difficult for those without anxieties and phobias like that to understand, but one instance of exposure, one getting over it, does not fix the phobia. People battle with phobias like these their entire lives, where it takes insurmountable effort to drag themselves outside into the spotlight. By comparison, the rest of the Mane Six could not be considered being really courageous for facing the same situations because they don't have a phobia. In the example of Dragonshy, again, while the other ponies were afraid to some degree, they all willingly volunteered to go up the mountain, so it isn't as if Fluttershy is pushing them to climb it. I must mention too that Green Isn't Your Color isn't the only time that Fluttershy has done something that she didn't like; Hurricane Fluttershy also serves as an example of it.

 

So yes, I would argue that forcing someone into a boring situation is different from forcing someone into a situation that induces panic. When you're doing something boring, it doesn't take an incredible amount of effort to do it and not bolt, especially if you can find something else to occupy yourself with while you're doing it; meanwhile, it can be physically painful to force yourself to deal with phobias, leading to breakdowns similar to the one that Fluttershy had in Filli Vanilli. That being said, anyone being irritated at this kind of behavior is not invalid, either. It's difficult to deal with someone who has phobias like these - at first they may be cute and endearing, but over time the inability to get them to do anything beyond their own pace can be irritating, and communication can be stilted as such people may hide it from you. Also, I would not say that Rainbow Dash was in the wrong to expect repayment for going on the butterfly watch with her, since friendship is a matter of give-and-take and Rainbow had done quite a bit of giving there. Fluttershy's stomping on her stomach was a completely inappropriate reaction regardless, and by her gently opening the window it's clear she wasn't doing it out of an anxiety attack but out of a voluntary attempt to harm her friend.

 

In the case of comparing Fluttershy's talk to Rainbow and Pinkie's talk to Fluttershy, though, I would again assert the notion that both instances weren't all that comparable. Fluttershy's was one throwaway line that Fluttershy did look guilty about when Rainbow flipped out about it; Pinkie's, on the other hand, was several, repeated snide comments and she never got any sort of one-up for it.

 

EDIT: I have to add that in Sonic Rainboom, Fluttershy did support her friend. When two bullies came to pick on Rainbow, Fluttershy stood up for her with very little hesitation. By comparison, in Filli Vanilli, Pinkie Pie did absolutely nothing to help Fluttershy at all within the episode.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Ken Ichijouji

[ShadOBabe 18,997]

Probably because Fluttershy wasn't screaming at her and hasn't been established onscreen to be sensitive of things like that with Rainbow as Pinkie has with Flutters. In Griffon the Brush Off, Pinkie immediately puts a stop to the attempt to prank Fluttershy because she knows she's super sensitive. But then she's depicted excitedly screaming Fluttershy's fears in her face.

 

I wouldn't have minded Pinkie's actions if she had just been shown NOT looking directly at Fluttershy. Fluttershy's fear and tears were readily apparent and Pinkie is not dense enough to overlook them. Had she just been ranting away to no one in particular, I wouldn't have minded.

 

I haven't seen Sonic Rainboom in a long time, but I believe FLuttershy wasn't actually looking at RD when she started talking. Also it's possible Fluttershy doesn't even comprehend that Rainbow Dash can even GET nervous. RD's the "brave" girl that always stood up for her.

Edited March 11, 2015 by ShadOBabe

[EpitomeOfTruth 243]

Oh and one more detail. Dash was specifically hiding her fears such that Fluttershy didn't know she was "throwing Dash's fears in her face". Rarity was the only one who even noticed the stage fright.

 

Meanwhile, everyone knows Fluttershy has stage fright, and even if Pinkie was trying to help, she specifically targeted Fluttershy's fears and pointed them out, not to mention broke her own rule about sensitivity from season 1.

I'd buy that if it wasn't made completely obvious in the beginning of the episode that Pinkie had absolutely no idea what stage fright was and its psychological effects on others. Edited March 11, 2015 by BronyOfJustice

[darkwingmare 1,320]

Because Fluttershy is everyone's cute moe waifu who can't do anything wrong.

 

psst Gilda's better than Fluttershy

THANK YOU. Someone finally agrees with me. XD

No but really, this is one of the many reasons why I dislike Fluttershy's character.(Don't hate me for this anyone, it's just my honest opinion.) Especially because of how she is and how the fandom often handles her character. Fluttershy has MANY, many flaws and faults and it irritates me that bronies AND her fellow ponies just usually lets it pass without Fluttershy really learning anything at all from it. Cause they know that she's fragile, cute, innocent and didn't mean anything by it, etc etc.

 

Her character just irritates me a lot in general.

I see no reason at all for hating Pinkie for anything she said. She was just being honest, really? Sure, it came out wrong, but Fluttershy is a tough pony, even though they CONSTANTLY keep trying to tell us that she's a coward, she's weak and can barely handle anything on her own most of the time, until something triggers her to. She's got a lot of potential to develop as a character with, but they usually just brush that potential off of her by constantly stating how cute, innocent and scared she is about everything. When she actually should have developed these things about herself in MANY MANY episodes. A lot in those you mention, especially.

 

Yeah... I don't like Fluttershy. Not much.