gaming Emulation Discussion

[Guest]

Emulation itself is perfectly legal, its distribution of and downloading of ROMS for games you don't own which is the grey area. Please do not share ROMS on this thread or offer places that you can download them.

 

Now that that's out of the way: emulation. It's something I do a lot of myself. However I mostly emulate games that I already own but either have lost the hardware to play, are too inconvenient to bust out hardware for, would like to play on the go, games I had that broke/were stolen, or games I just didn't get a chance to get and can't afford paying insane amounts on ebay to get. Though I keep to keep that last group as small as possible. I find myself mostly replaying Chrono Trigger over and over again on different devices, a game that I've bought every single version of because it's my favorite game of all time.

 

I emulate most of my games on my PC, but when I want them on my big screen, I have them emulated on my Wii U (via the virtual Wii mode's Homebrew channel). When I want them on the go, I go for my modded PSP and sometimes my tablet/smartphone. With so many great emulation devices out there, it's a great time to be an old school gamer.

 

I am reaaaaally interested in getting the Dragonbox Pyra when it comes out, as it's a sequel device to the Open Pandora which boasts better specs and such.

 

What about you guys? What are some systems you emulate a lot? What devices are you using to do so? What's your preffered controller? All things emulation let us discuss them.

[Shift 4,274]

I only emulate games that are virtually impossible to find nowadays, such as Earthbound and Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (English Patch). That or games I already own, such as Pokemon Emerald, or on a very old game system, usually the GBA since it's out of print. For devices such as the Wii, I don't emulate games like that, since some of the games on the Wii are fairly recent.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Shift

[Guest]

I only emulate games that are virtually impossible to find nowadays, such as Earthbound and Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (English Patch). That or games I already own, such as Pokemon Emerald, or on a very old game system, usually the GBA since it's out of print. For devices such as the Wii, I don't emulate games like that, since some of the games on the Wii are fairly recent.

I run emulators on the Wii itself, but I've never really emulated Wii. I don't really find many games I want to emulate for it that I do not already have access to playing. And since they play like crap on the go, I don't really run them on portable devices.

[rarity1 461]

I like having emulated DS games on my phone so I make use of the touch screen.  I'd really like to see 3DS emulation.

[Shift 4,274]

@@Key Sharkz,

 

Yeah, I once tried to emulate a Wii game a long time ago, but it didn't work. And besides, the ROM was huge (It was Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. I was getting desperate due to being unable to find it anywhere, it's impossible to find at a reasonable price). 

[Guest]

I like having emulated DS games on my phone so I make use of the touch screen.  I'd really like to see 3DS emulation.

We may be a while off of that. I have a DS Two Flashcard that lets me run original DS games off of a MicroSD in my 3DS though. The 3DS security is a bit tighter, so much so that people can not even get much working in the way of cheating devices even. 

[Lightwing 12,980]

I only use emulation when I know that I can't get an specific game (FE2-6 come to my mind), or when the actual game is extremely hard to find or is extremely expensive (FE9-10 can reach easily prices of over $120). Other than that, i rarely emulate, as I prefer to experience the games on a real console.

We may be a while off of that. I have a DS Two Flashcard that lets me run original DS games off of a MicroSD in my 3DS though. The 3DS security is a bit tighter, so much so that people can not even get much working in the way of cheating devices even.

The 3DS hacking community has advanced A LOT through this year, but 3DS emulation is incredibly clunky nowadays. The few games that can be emulated don't even work properly, with common crashes and graphical bugs.

[Guest]

I only use emulation when I know that I can't get an specific game (FE2-6 come to my mind), or when the actual game is extremely hard to find or is extremely expensive (FE9-10 can reach easily prices of over $120). Other than that, i rarely emulate, as I prefer to experience the games on a real console.

The 3DS hacking community has advanced A LOT through this year, but 3DS emulation is incredibly clunky nowadays. The few games that can be emulated don't even work properly, with common crashes and graphical bugs.

I agree there. That's half of why I emulate SNES on my Wii U and use my Wii classic controller to get as close to the original feel as possible.

 

Yeah 3DS hacking is coming along, but we've got a while before we are going to see proper emulation or even running games off of flash cards. It's in the works, but Nintendo keeps breaking a lot of stuff via updates. I remember we had a nice Animal Crossing RAM editor, but that was broken in a future update.

[Guest]

I once emulated Medal of Honor: Frontline to work on my PC, using mouse and keyboard. It wasn't easy, lol.

 

Nowadays, I just use emulators for SNES games, like Ninja Warriors.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Guest

[Celtore 2,770]

Emulation is an interesting idea, creating virtual hardware to run a binary on a system it wasn't designed for. It takes a lot of detail to do that kind of thing. I remember watching a youtube video on how to make a snes emulator from scratch with C++ and SDL.

 

I find most of the game emulation I do is on the GBA and SNES because they're stable, that's where a lot of my childhood nostalgia is and the virtual console on the wii u is kind of bad. I play them all on the keyboard, including the crazy mario rom hacks I do for a challenge. I'm thinking about doing a run of kaizo 2 soon and then kaizo 3.

[Cash In 23,133]

I have used emulators on certain occassions, but I would still rather play games on the actual consoles they were designed for.

[Here No Longer 5,286]

I would much rather play them on the actual console, but I nonetheless have played plenty of Gameboy Advance and Gameboy Color games using emulators.

[The Historian 518]

I have emulated as far back as Odyssey 2 and as current as WiiU. Takes a lot of time and effort to really make it work properly. Most of the time, I do it for simple convenience. Acquiring the hardware is generally cost prohibitive, especially in some areas. Looking at you TG16 and NeoGeo. I already collect PC-based games, I don't have the capital to buy genuine articles for things I want to play for every console generation. Emulation gives you, functionally, the same experience if you're talking about a console with a controller. I have enough space to house thousands of ROMs and disc/disk images, which I current have roughly 1100 spread across... oh... 45 different game platforms.

All of that is hooked into the EmulationStation frontend that I control with an Xbox One controller. Hard to beat amount of convenience. xD

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,202]

I mainly emulate Nintendo related things like GBA and such, mainly because Nintendo seems hellbent on making it difficult to playing those on anything that isn't original hardware. They gave up on Virtual Console for the Switch, something I was very much looking forward to originally, so I see it as fair game.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Kyoshi

[Envy 6,406]

3 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

I mainly emulated Nintendo related things like GBA and such, mainly because Nintendo seems hellbent on making it difficult to playing those on anything that isn't original hardware. They gave up on Virtual Console for the Switch, something I was very much looking forwrad to original, so I see it as fair game.

Nintendo creates arguably the most desirable kind of platform ever for Virtual Console (being a system that can play either handheld or on TV), and then somehow right at that moment decides to stop doing Virtual Console.

I seriously hate Nintendo sometimes.

But I will never emulate. It doesn't feel right to me. I have a Wii U and 3DS which gives me access to nearly any old game I'd ever want, too.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,202]

3 hours ago, Envy said:

Nintendo creates arguably the most desirable kind of platform ever for Virtual Console (being a system that can play either handheld or on TV), and then somehow right at that moment decides to stop doing Virtual Console.

I seriously hate Nintendo sometimes.

But I will never emulate. It doesn't feel right to me. I have a Wii U and 3DS which gives me access to nearly any old game I'd ever want, too.

Yeah, but even those don't have every system for each, like GB/GBC for Wii U or GBA for 3DS. The Switch could have had all of them and it would have been massively successful, but I guess Nintendo doesn't want my money for classic games, so emulation for me is the way to go in terms of those systems. Nintendo is incredibly stupid for not putting VC on the Switch, it is probably the dumbest thing they have done so far with the Switch and that's including Switch Online.

[Celli 4,349]

13 hours ago, Envy said:

But I will never emulate. It doesn't feel right to me.

I'm sorry but I don't think that's a very fair reason, emulation is a grey area much like piracy. Even with the virtual console you have to buy a game again on a new console because Nintendo doesn't allow for transferring of VC games. And any game you buy on it is gone after 10 years if your Wii u breaks. On top of that, the asking price for old games is hardly worth paying. $5 for a snes game that you don't even really own? No thanks. As @Kyoshi said it's very much fair game to emulate in that instance. 

[Megas 28,145]

It's also worth noting that Emulation is the best, and possibly only way at the moment to play certain old games that are either too obscure to play or licensed games that are in the middle of licensing hell ala the Disney/Marvel Capcom games or the Konami arcade games like X-Men, TMNT Turtles In Time or The Simpsons

[Envy 6,406]

9 hours ago, Celli said:

I'm sorry but I don't think that's a very fair reason, emulation is a grey area much like piracy. Even with the virtual console you have to buy a game again on a new console because Nintendo doesn't allow for transferring of VC games. And any game you buy on it is gone after 10 years if your Wii u breaks. On top of that, the asking price for old games is hardly worth paying. $5 for a snes game that you don't even really own? No thanks. As @Kyoshi said it's very much fair game to emulate in that instance. 

All I said was "It doesn't feel right to me". I don't know how that isn't a "fair" reason, it's just how I feel? I know that Nintendo (and other companies) are really crappy about this... A VC game I bought on the Wii, Wii U, etc. should transfer to each new system I get. But I don't get to decide that. I only own video games in the format in which I purchase them. Unofficially downloading them online would just feel very wrong to me. There is no grey area there for me.

You can do what you want, but emulation is just not right in my mind. I can kind of understand doing it for games that you have no other means of doing it, but even then it would still feel wrong to me if I did it. I want nothing to do with emulators.

[Guest]

Wow! It's been years since I made this!

 

So update I guess:

I ultimately didn't get the Dragonbox Pyra, but instead got the GPD Win. It's a nice little emulation device that doubles as a PC, and it's nice and all... But it does have a few minor annoyances, nothing unreasonable though. It's pretty good for what it is. Though, mostly I am enjoying the SNES classic that I modded to put more games on it.

 

Again something to remind people: emulation should mostly focus on either games you already own or ones that are INCREDIBLY hard to get a hold of legit copies, or modern "versions" are drastically inferior (see Silent Hill Collection on PS3). If you bought the game already, it's perfectly legal to emulate it, though companies try to convince people that it is not, when it totally is. Nintendo is famous for spending millions to convince people that emulation is destroying their business and is illegal under all circumstances when it's not true. A famous case of Sony versus an emulator resulted in the law determining that emulation is perfectly legal, it's piracy that is illegal.

On 3/8/2019 at 12:04 PM, Cash In said:

I have used emulators on certain occassions, but I would still rather play games on the actual consoles they were designed for.

Definitely! When I can, I do!

On 3/16/2019 at 2:23 PM, Kyoshi said:

I mainly emulate Nintendo related things like GBA and such, mainly because Nintendo seems hellbent on making it difficult to playing those on anything that isn't original hardware. They gave up on Virtual Console for the Switch, something I was very much looking forward to originally, so I see it as fair game.

Yeah that's part of the issue. Finding a copy of some of their games is insanely overpriced.

23 hours ago, Envy said:

Nintendo creates arguably the most desirable kind of platform ever for Virtual Console (being a system that can play either handheld or on TV), and then somehow right at that moment decides to stop doing Virtual Console.

It's because they have one of the oldest libraries is why. When you have a good decade or so on the competition you will more than likely have more games that people want. Sadly... Nintendo is very very very "we want money for the least amount of work". It's less work to re-release games over and over and make people buy them over and over.

11 minutes ago, Envy said:

But I don't get to decide that. I only own video games in the format in which I purchase them. Unofficially downloading them online would just feel very wrong to me. There is no grey area there for me.

100% incorrect, I hate to say. There is no law that states when you buy a game you are only buying that "format". In fact the law says you can actually run the game on other hardware if you like. The law merely states you can not SELL ripped off hardware for a profit or distribute it, but if you say... Built a PC that coincidentally can play the games... It's fair game. Software emulation is 100% legal as well. Many companies tried to sue emulator makers and failed because the law is pretty clear: you can play on any format you want. Most of the jargon that companies spout about how you are only buying a "license" to "use" a game is actually not based in any legality, it's just companies hoping you will buy into that and accept that.

In short: you likely only feel that way because you've been trained/told/convinced to feel that way. If you look at the law... You have every right. I mean it's the same as when you buy anything: you have the right to protect it. You have the right to try and preserve it, so if you made a copy of your games and another way to play them, well... That's just common sense.

14 minutes ago, Envy said:

You can do what you want, but emulation is just not right in my mind. I can kind of understand doing it for games that you have no other means of doing it, but even then it would still feel wrong to me if I did it. I want nothing to do with emulators.

Nintendo uses emulators on their systems to play old school games.

Also, this next part will get a bit technical so bear with me!

 

Many of those old games, for example, let's take an old SNES game that is VERY RARE, are nearly impossible to play in their original format.

 

So, I have an SNES which as you may know uses A/V cables which if you've ever seen them on an HDTV... They look like trash. Finding working CRTs to play it on that will have decent picture quality (the older these things get the less likely you are to find ones with decent screens) is very difficult. Finding parts to fix CRTs actually is becoming next to impossible. The last company in the entire world that made ray tubes has officially stopped production years ago. Meaning... When all the current CRTs in the world are dead... It'll be next to impossible to play the original hardware in a quality format without tons of work around and modifications.

Here's what I actually have to do just to play Chrono Trigger on the original hardware:

 

1. Buy the game for $100 or more.

2. Find a working CRT that supports 60hz or 50/60Hz.

3. Buy a transformer.

4. Transformer takes up an entire outlet by itself and I can't plug anything else into it.

5. Hope and pray that I don't accidentally plug the transformer into a strip without thinking because it blows the power supply.

 

All this stuff costs in the hundreds. What about people who live in countries where the hardware is too expensive? Poland for example is dirt poor. Are they supposed to basically just "not" get to experience it because they were born in the wrong place?

[Envy 6,406]

@Zkrahs Yek Look, I just don't feel right using emulators. That's that. I really didn't mean for this to go any further. You may be right legally, but it just doesn't change the way I feel.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Envy said:

@Zkrahs Yek Look, I just don't feel right using emulators. That's that. I really didn't mean for this to go any further. You may be right legally, but it just doesn't change the way I feel.

I understand that, but remember when you come in and share those views, you are... Sort of shaming others and pushing your views, otherwise you'd keep them to yourself. It kind of comes off as trying to guilt people and I am in favor of spreading the correct information. You do you, but when you share your views in a discussion you open up conversation that could be against said views, that's all.

Total respect from me.

[Envy 6,406]

11 minutes ago, Zkrahs Yek said:

I understand that, but remember when you come in and share those views, you are... Sort of shaming others and pushing your views, otherwise you'd keep them to yourself. It kind of comes off as trying to guilt people and I am in favor of spreading the correct information. You do you, but when you share your views in a discussion you open up conversation that could be against said views, that's all.

Total respect from me.

I understand, but in this case, the original post I made in this topic wasn't exactly about emulation, but to keep on topic all I said was that I don't emulate because it doesn't feel right to me. Nothing else.

Maybe I shouldn't have even said that, but I thought it was innocuous enough to not start a fight but also would be keeping us on-topic. I was wrong. >.<

[The Historian 518]

If you had stopped at "I prefer not to do it," I don't think it would have gone anywhere. Your phrasing wasn't exactly benevolent and was a bit... negative towards those who are fine with emulation.

[Guest]

On 3/17/2019 at 7:25 PM, The Historian said:

If you had stopped at "I prefer not to do it," I don't think it would have gone anywhere. Your phrasing wasn't exactly benevolent and was a bit... negative towards those who are fine with emulation.

Have to agree here.

 

Back on topic, I have noticed that the statement that 100% perfect SNES emulation is still not "technically" achieved holds truth.

I won't get into too much detail, but testing Earthbound on a PC with emulation, an iMac with emulation, the SNES classic with emulation and the original cartridge (thanks to a friend) and on the original hardware via an everdrive, I can safely say... There is MINOR slowdowns on all but the original cartridge and the everdrive. So it's definitely a hardware issue.

This is part of why emulation is so important, a lot of these games were built around very unique custom hardware that is long since gone. If emulation didn't exist... These games would not basically be playable at all.