MLP needs more thought-provoking episodes

[trademark2 485]

The title was changed by a mod, but this thread is supposed to be about my thoughts of what MLP could do better after watching a few episodes of steven universe. edit: In retrospect I think it was a good idea by the mod to change the title

 

 

I think MLP needs more thoughtprovoking episodes. With steven universe, the art style is really bad aestetically, but the episodes... You don't know what will happen, and some of the stuff is really funny. I think MLP needs more unpredictability and more humor in the show. More things that make you actually think about stuff. It has music, and cuteness, but thats not enough. I really think season 7 will be the best season yet and address this though. MLP should get some 8 bit tunes as well!

 

Edit: OK some people have very strong feelings about this. Please note that I dont advocate major violence, real world events, or adult themes. When you read the thread there are some implying that this thread is advocating for these things to be added to the show, and that is not true. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by trademark2

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

Steven Universe's aesthetics and animation mostly get better over time.

 

 Anyway, MLP's already proven quite thought provoking in my opinion. Some episodes like "Amending Fences" have even caused me to reflect on myself. SU however is aimed at an older target audience and is rated PG, so it's allowed to get away with more things than MLP can, so some of the thought provoking elements of the show are easier to pull off there.  MLP has way more than just cuteness and songs though, it's got great characters, uplifting messages and some decent comedy too.

 

Also, not sure 8-bit is the best fit for MLP.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

(and hopefully season 7 will have)

 

I think it needs more thoughtprovoking episodes. With steven universe, the art style is really bad aestetically, but the episodes... You don't know what will happen, and some of the stuff is really funny. I think MLP needs more unpredictability and more humor in the show. More things that make you actually think about stuff. It has music, and cuteness, but thats not enough. I really think season 7 will be the best season yet and address this though. MLP should get some 8 bit tunes as well!

 

The "Steven universe" tag made me think your suggestion was going to be "A CANON GAY COUPLE!"

Edited December 8, 2016 by Unlikeable Pony

[Thrond 3,257]

The "Steven universe" tag made me think your suggestion was going to be "A CANON GAY COUPLE!"

I mean... such a claim wouldn't be wrong.

[VengefulStrudel 1,486]

Hey @@trademark2, just letting you know the thread title was edited so that it better describes the topic of your thread. Have a nice day!

[trademark2 485]

Steven Universe's aesthetics and animation mostly get better over time.

 

 Anyway, MLP's already proven quite thought provoking in my opinion. Some episodes like "Amending Fences" have even caused me to reflect on myself. SU however is aimed at an older target audience and is rated PG, so it's allowed to get away with more things than MLP can, so some of the thought provoking elements of the show are easier to pull off there.  MLP has way more than just cuteness and songs though, it's got great characters, uplifting messages and some decent comedy too.

 

Also, not sure 8-bit is the best fit for MLP.

I think the average brony age is above the age of the average steven universe viewer, however. Some of the references in 'My Little Pony' are much deeper than what is in steven universe. The average viewer for steven universe is 17 according to data i looked up, while the average brony age is twenty something

 

 

Hey @@trademark2, just letting you know the thread title was edited so that it better describes the topic of your thread. Have a nice day! 

I see the true reason you did that... i guess i agree with it. But imo my little pony can compete with steven universe evenly, without the need for stuff like this. Although, now that I understand the problems a few dedicated bronies had with season 6 better, maybe nows not the best time to be mentioning competition.

 

I don't really think the shows appeal to the same demographic. At least for me, and probably for the artists and music people, they see a lot of beauty in MLP, which is not in Steven Universe. I don't think the shows are direct competitors with each other, although people may watch both shows.

Edited December 8, 2016 by trademark2

[PiratePony 8,473]

The target audience for MLP is still elementary school aged children. It's just not in the same field as Steven Universe. 

 

I think that the stories are thought provoking as is, in the realm of friendship lessons for kids, which is really what it's all about at its core. 

[trademark2 485]

The target audience for MLP is still elementary school aged children. It's just not in the same field as Steven Universe. 

 

I think that the stories are thought provoking as is, in the realm of friendship lessons for kids, which is really what it's all about at its core. 

 

So you don't think it can compete with steven universe then, since the other show is allowed to do more things? This is just a status quo arguement. MLP obviously shouldn't be super violent, but theres no reason they have to market it exclusively towards kids, when they have another demographic and its airing on the discovery channel. They can do the same things steven universe can... In other ways. They shouldn't add a fat kid with a gem, but they can do it in other ways. 

 

 

Its really annoying to see this being espoused here "Its only a show for children", i am an open brony and get that literally everywhere, and its just not true. Some of the people watching the show are children, but it is an all ages show, not only a childrens show. Some true childrens shows try to co-opt the all ages tagline for themselves, and people may get confused, but there is a difference between a children's show and an all ages show. 

 

And the writers are already taking this into account, to some extent, but they need to do it more. Season 6 had refrences to a major horror film, an indiana jones type episode, I'm not sure what else. By your arguement you want less of this type of thing, and more of genericness like the applebloom gryphon cutie mark episode. Your view is an existential threat to the show as we know it, in that if it ever pervades in the writers and producers of the show, it will regress back to the way it was in season 1.

Edited December 8, 2016 by trademark2

[trademark2 485]

You think I am trolling because a show that is aimed at Young children doesnt have more *thought provoking material* in it? Thats some sharp logic right there folks

 

Maybe they have tailored it a little more to adults as well but that doesnt take away from what the show is primairily aimed at. Wasnt the whole point of the Brony fandom doing something outside of the box, wasnt that what made you special that you didnt care if people ragged on you for liking a little girls show, wasnt it about not having to watch shows based around your gender? Well, I know the answer, that IS why the fandom started because of like minded people coming together.

 

So in that case why do you want the show to become more aimed at adults, because then the fandom loses what it was originally based on the principle of anyone can enjoy a kids show. But sure lets add more thought provoking serious stuff, hell, lets do what other bronies too and add in blood, gore, self harm, depression and mental illness, lmao.

 

The charm for many people, like me, who arent hardcore bronies is that its fun, innocent, easy to watch and cute. You guys REALLY need to stop taking a TV Show so seriously.

 

Loving that sneaky edit you did

I always edit my posts rigorously, as i ussually see something after that needs changing. its not a sneaky edit lol.

 

 

I take it that you don't want thought-provoking stuff in the show, and want it to be something only kids will enjoy. And that would be very tragic, for all bronies. I don't want to be direspectful to you or your views, but I can't really believe you're serious about this. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by trademark2

[trademark2 485]

As I already said, alot of people, like myself, who realise that it is just a TV show like watching it BECAUSE its a kid show, which means it is cute, light hearted, cheery and no dark themes.

 

 

 

I am going to move this here from page 2:

 

 

I was thinking more about this, and I didn't really go far enough in my last post about why I find this view so objectionable, because on the surface it doesn't seem that bad. The reality is, the show could lower its quality quite a bit and still be appealing to children. It doesn't need super high quality songs and music, good writing, or innovative plots. It just needs to be average. 

 

The question for us isn't whether or not it's good enough for children, it's whether or not it's good enough to support a fandom. If children are happy, and everyone else leaves, then I personally would consider the show dead. For it to justify us going to conventions and meetups and stuff, and defy social norms in liking it, it has to be of better quality than 'just another childrens show'. And, as someone who wants to go to conventions and associating with other diehard fans, I hope it maintains the level of quality to justify doing so. THATS why I want the show to be the best it can be. 

 

These clauses aren't mutually exclusive. The show can be appealing to us while still being appealing to children. The show shouldn't just throw children under busses in favor of bronies. But it should not be limited either. 'we can't do that! this is a childrens show', is an arguement I hope was used very sparingly in production. Because traditional ideals of what a childrens show should be are already very restrictive in and of themselves, and they shouldn't be.

 

in the level of writing, in the level of eloquence, and for the level of music, it clearly exceeds what it needs to be to be appealing to children. That goes without saying. But if this is all one cares about, there is no need to really maintain the current quality at all, let alone think about improving. 

 

TLDR; yes, children are a demographic the show is targetting, but pleasing this demographic isnt the only thing that matters.

Edited December 9, 2016 by trademark2

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

I think the show is good as it is. It's not really supposed to be a show that teaches us about the meaning of life, or anything philosophical in general. We really need to learn that this is not our show, but a show for everyone. Bronies are just a minor demographic and i think we as bronies sometimes overestimate ourselves, thinking that we are the number audience, even above kids.

[trademark2 485]

I think the show is good as it is. It's not really supposed to be a show that teaches us about the meaning of life, or anything philosophical in general. We really need to learn that this is not our show, but a show for everyone. Bronies are just a minor demographic and i think we as bronies sometimes overestimate ourselves, thinking that we are the number audience, even above kids.

Actually bronies make up most of the viewers of the show, from what I have read, not a minor demographic. According to this study http://www.herdcensus.com/2014%20STATE%20OF%20THE%20HERD%20REPORT.pdf

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

 

 

I take it that you don't want thought-provoking stuff in the show, and want it to be something only kids will enjoy.

 

That's not what they mean. MLP already appeals to adults plenty as it is, and already aims itself at adults to an extent. They just mean that it's primarily aimed at kids despite it's appeal to us, and that it should stay that way. Bronies have been watching since season 1, and the show's done fine as it is.

 

To be fair though...

 

 

 

it is cute, light hearted, cheery and no dark themes.

 

 

No dark themes isn't quite true either. Sombra enslaved an empire and even called them his slaves, Starlight was basically running a cult, one of the alternate universes had a legitimate war in it, some episodes like Party of one and To where and Back again even have some slightly creepy imagery in them...

 

 However, it's not as dark as most TV get's and there's always a happy ending, so that keeps the show in check.

[Guest]

Yeah while it is a kids show blah forget about all that jibber jabbish.

 

There has been a share of thought provoking episodes throughout the show thus far. Especially with characters and their breakdowns. Party of one, Too Many Pinkie Pies where the real Pinkie hit rock bottom of the end of the episode. I'm not just trying to focus on Pinkie or maybe I am whatever. Look at the Cheese Sandwich episode of Pinkie's Lament.

 

What about all of the character developments of such characters like Trixie or Starlight Glimmer if you remember their pasts and how far they have come in the series thats the kind of things I love about this show.

 

I would appreciate some episode to have a bit darker tone or just as you said a deep thought provoking episode in which you really had not clue how the episode were to end.

 

*Oh yeah seeing that dystopian future I can't remember exactly you know where Pinkie, Maud & Rainbow were warriors or something like that. It showed Rainbow Dash with her wing literally cut off with a metal wing prosthetic that to me was rather surprising.  

Edited December 8, 2016 by Gone Airbourne

[GeekySonic 1,150]

I'm not opposed to the show taking measures to be just a little more adult in its writing. I think I can justifiably say that it has been on multiple occasions. However, the show has been going for SIX SEASONS with extremely minute changes in regards to its tone. I think it's fine the way it is (otherwise, come on. Would Bronies even be a thing if we didn't LIKE the show?).

[KrazyDashie 1,846]

The reason we got involved in the show wasn't "because its a childrens show" it was because it was extremely high quality, very beautiful, great music, ect. I think its safe to say that no one just saw the show and said "I like that because its for 7 year old girls". You are confusing an obstacle to the shows success with the reason for its success. There are PLENTY of shows for 7 year old girls that didn't branch out, they can fill that slot; let this one become something unique. 

 

If your a casual viewer you wouldn't be on this forum, everyone here made the show a part of their lives, some people made art and music, and commissioned OCs, and now you want to make fun of that too. 

 

okay... im just gonna say this here... you make it sound like harper attacked every brony out there... when they technically said "a lot of people" not "all the people"   everyone got into the show for their own reasons right? and yes, I agree that that it is more than a children's show, but its TARGET audience will always be towards children. hence a Y rating.. (im not taking any sides by the way) but personally, I think youre taking this the wrong way... at least... the way youre acting up about the situation. no... offences...

 

 

also who said casual viewers cant be on a discussion forum? heck, you don't even need to be a brony to join this forum there are non-bronies who listen to fandom music, and ive seen some actually commission OCs because they liked the art style.

[Goat-kun 2,500]

As some have correctly stated, this show is indeed aimed primarily at young audience. Sure they will sneak in some Easter eggs that only adults (or Bronies) can understand, but that doesn’t mean it should address the problem of diminishing middle class or open a dialogue on vaccination. There are lots of things that cannot be effectively addressed inside MLP and thus shouldn’t be addressed as the show doesn’t offer an environment for productive debate. Also, if you think that the existing darker themes in FIM are indeed thought-provoking and not just an attempt at teaching or entertainment, then you aren’t ready to participate in debates with thought-provoking themes anyway.

 

P.S: FIM is rated TV-Y (appropriate for children of all ages, specifically designed for very young audience, including children 2-6). Steven Universe is TV-PG (nuff said).

[CT-1138 3,180]

While I wouldn't mind them, I really don't think the show NEEDS throught provoking episodes. It's just not that kind of show. 

[Thrond 3,257]

 

So you don't think it can compete with steven universe then, since the other show is allowed to do more things? This is just a status quo arguement. MLP obviously shouldn't be super violent, but theres no reason they have to market it exclusively towards kids, when they have another demographic and its airing on the discovery channel. They can do the same things steven universe can... In other ways. They shouldn't add a fat kid with a gem, but they can do it in other ways.

 

 

Its really annoying to see this being espoused here "Its only a show for children", i am an open brony and get that literally everywhere, and its just not true. Some of the people watching the show are children, but it is an all ages show, not only a childrens show. Some true childrens shows try to co-opt the all ages tagline for themselves, and people may get confused, but there is a difference between a children's show and an all ages show.

 

And the writers are already taking this into account, to some extent, but they need to do it more. Season 6 had refrences to a major horror film, an indiana jones type episode, I'm not sure what else. By your arguement you want less of this type of thing, and more of genericness like the applebloom gryphon cutie mark episode. Your view is an existential threat to the show as we know it, in that if it ever pervades in the writers and producers of the show, it will regress back to the way it was in season 1.

1: Well, as you said, S6 already has a lot of bold stuff, like "The Times They Are a Changeling." Most of the flattest episodes last season seem to have turned out that way due to the writers spending more time on other episodes.

 

2. The griffon cutie mark episode was beautiful and adorable and powerful and how dare you!!!

 

3. The problem with MLP is that it's restricted to 22 minutes and can't stretch stories much further than that. Discovery Family wants to rerun episodes in any order, so there has to be exposition and there can't be any major story arcs, and combined with the show's target audience preventing them from going too deep into darker subject matter or, y'know, same-sex couples, it's hard to do a more complex and nuanced story justice.

[trademark2 485]

I was thinking more about this, and I didn't really go far enough in my last post about why I find this view so objectionable, because on the surface it doesn't seem that bad. The reality is, the show could lower its quality quite a bit and still be appealing to children. It doesn't need super high quality songs and music, good writing, or innovative plots. It just needs to be average. 

 

The question for us isn't whether or not it's good enough for children, it's whether or not it's good enough to support a fandom. If children are happy, and everyone else leaves, then I personally would consider the show dead. For it to justify us going to conventions and meetups and stuff, and defy social norms in liking it, it has to be of better quality than 'just another childrens show'. And, as someone who wants to go to conventions and associating with other diehard fans, I hope it maintains the level of quality to justify doing so. THATS why I want the show to be the best it can be. 

 

These clauses aren't mutually exclusive. The show can be appealing to us while still being appealing to children. The show shouldn't just throw children under busses in favor of bronies. But it should not be limited either. 'we can't do that! this is a childrens show', is an arguement I hope was used very sparingly in production. Because traditional ideals of what a childrens show should be are already very restrictive in and of themselves, and they shouldn't be.

 

in the level of writing, in the level of eloquence, and for the level of music, it clearly exceeds what it needs to be to be appealing to children. That goes without saying. But if this is all one cares about, there is no need to really maintain the current quality at all, let alone think about improving. 

 

TLDR; yes, children are a demographic the show is targetting, but pleasing this demographic isnt the only thing that matters.

Edited December 8, 2016 by trademark2

[Thrond 3,257]

 

I was thinking more about this, and I didn't really go far enough in my last post about why I find this view so objectionable, because on the surface it doesn't seem that bad. The reality is, the show could lower its quality quite a bit and still be appealing to children. It doesn't need super high quality songs and music, good writing, or innovative plots. It just needs to be average.

 

The question for us isn't whether or not it's good enough for children, it's whether or not it's good enough to support a fandom. If children are happy, and everyone else leaves, then I personally would consider the show dead. For it to justify us going to conventions and meetups and stuff, and defy social norms in liking it, it has to be of better quality than 'just another childrens show'. And, as someone who wants to go to conventions and associating with other diehard fans, I hope it maintains the level of quality to justify doing so. THATS why I want the show to not be the best it can be.

 

These clauses aren't mutually exclusive. The show can be appealing to us while still being appealing to children. The show shouldn't just throw children under busses in favor of bronies. But it should not be limited either. 'we can't do that! this is a childrens show', is an arguement I hope was used very sparingly in production. Because traditional ideals of what a childrens show should be are already very restrictive in and of themselves, and they shouldn't be.

 

in the level of writing, in the level of eloquence, and for the level of music, it clearly exceeds what it needs to be to be appealing to children. That goes without saying. But if this is all one cares about, there is no need to really care about quality at all, let alone think about improving.

 

TLDR; yes, children are a demographic the show is targetting, but pleasing this demographic isnt the only thing that matters.

Children deserve higher quality media, and they deserve media which causes them to think about the world differently, and yes, it's true that pleasing the most easily pleased demographic shouldn't be the backbone of a show, but this show isn't going to break free of its limitations - certainly not under Hasbro's eye.

 

And yes, I get that you are saying all of this because you care about the show, but you need to appreciate its restrictions more. It's unlikely to dig into thematically deeper and darker territory, and there's a good argument that it shouldn't.

 

Mostly, I feel that MLP trying to be more ambitious would only call attention to its restrictions, most notably the time restriction. That's how I feel about a lot of season 5, after all, and so I think all this show needs is to further improve its quality control comedy-wise.

[trademark2 485]

And yes, I get that you are saying all of this because you care about the show, but you need to appreciate its restrictions more. It's unlikely to dig into thematically deeper and darker territory, and there's a good argument that it shouldn't.

I don't know how this misunderstanding started, but I wasn't trying to say adult content or ideas should be in the show. People are acting like im advocating for 'rainbow factory' to be part of canon. I do think they can at least go as far as they have in the past, which was the battle with turok. That is far enough. They could stray over to the edge of that boundary more in plotting, and it would make the show interesting if they did.

 

If you have 3 different blocks, you can arrange them in 6 different ways. If you have 5 different blocks, you can arrange them in 120 different ways. It's the same way with plot elements. Just straying a little towards the boundary gives them so much more combinations for plotting.

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by trademark2

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

I was thinking more about this, and I didn't really go far enough in my last post about why I find this view so objectionable, because on the surface it doesn't seem that bad. The reality is, the show could lower its quality quite a bit and still be appealing to children. It doesn't need super high quality songs and music, good writing, or innovative plots. It just needs to be average. 

 

 

MLP already is a kids show as it is, but I certainly wouldn't call it an average one. Nobody's arguing that MLP needs to be an "Average" kid's show. Steven Universe is also a kids show, as is Adventure Time, Star Vs the forces of Evil, Gravity falls. So were shows like Courage the Cowardly Dog, The Powerpuff Girls, Ed, Edd, N' Eddy, and the first 4 seasons of Samurai Jack. All of these shows are loved by teenagers to adults despite being "Kids" shows, and for a lot of different reasons too.

 

 Kids deserve quality entertainment, kids shows can be just "Average" but they shouldn't be, giving kids the bare minimum works, but why would you do that when you can give them something better? Good kids shows are often fun for adults too, and do often incorporate elements just for them.

 

 Though, almost all of those kids shows I just mentioned are still aimed at a slightly older demographic than MLP is, most of them are rated PG, while MLP is Y-7, there's more restrictions on MLP because of that. MLP has already gotten some very mature things in it, dealing with things like the Process of Grief in Tanks for the Memories, Self-Guilt in Do Princesses dream of Magic Sheep, etc. It's entirely possible to get more mature topics in MLP as it is, if they're careful with it of course.

 

 Even then though, MLP probably isn't ever going to be something like Steven Universe, because while they have a lot of similarities, their minimum age demographics are different, and they're also aiming for different things. MLP is a slice of life show about Twilight Sparkle and her friends learning lessons about good friendship's and sometimes other elements of life, it dips into more action/adventure territory especially for the two-parters, but it's ultimately a light-hearted show about friendship.

 

 Meanwhile, Steven Universe is a sort of "Coming of age" show about Steven, it's at times a Slice of life as well but includes larger story arcs and some more action, rather than just being about Friendship it's more about just relationships in general, and learning to love yourself and others.

 

 I don't really feel like MLP needs to be more like Steven Universe, or to be more "Thought Provoking" than it already is, it's doing just fine. Perhaps a little bit of experimenting in the next season would do it some good, but I don't want the show trying to be something it's not.

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

 

 

Actually bronies make up most of the viewers of the show, from what I have read, not a minor demographic. According to this study http://www.herdcensu...HERDREPORT.pdf

 

I would question the graph you are presumably citing here.  The poll that resulted in this graph doesn't take into account young casual viewers that may have had no contact with the fandom itself.  Most people I know who fit into the original target demographic do not have unrestricted access to the internet, and are highly unlikely to have ever come across, or participated in, the poll that produced this statistic.

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

Maybe not, but it does show quite a bit of skew. And really theres no way of knowing those viewers so this is all we have to go on

 

It shows quite a bit of skew because it is a flawed poll representing only a self-selecting sample.  If we take the target audience as being between 4 and 12, this gives you potentially a huge base of viewers who are not necessarily bronies (or pegasisters).  I do not know anyone that would permit a 4 year old to surf the internet unsupervised, or allow them to fill in a survey such as the one that produced the Herd Report.

 

Citing a lack of alternative figures does not increase the accuracy of the figures that you may have, especially when those figures come from a dubious collection method.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Concerned Bystander