S07:E14 - Fame and Misfortune

[Spivey 0]

19 minutes ago, Celli said:

O.o Since when has the show taken itself seriously?

How about anytime there's a major villain like Queen Chrysalis or Lord Tirek? The show writers expect us to take this crap seriously! Even in episodes like "Feeling Pinkie Keen", the writers expect us to take it seriously!

[Jeric 46,851]

6 minutes ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

I'm 50/50 on "Fame & Misfortune", atm.  I loved the episode but, it has quite a few flaws that are difficult to look past, IMO.

 

The consistency and technical flaws bug me. If they fixed that, I would rate this a higher rating than a 4/5 ... I honestly liked this episode's chutzpah

[Celli 4,338]

Just now, Spivey said:

How about anytime there's a major villain like Queen Chrysalis or Lord Tirek? The show writers expect us to take this crap seriously! Even in episodes like "Feeling Pinkie Keen", the writers expect us to take it seriously!

Yeah, in the two parters they're a bit more serious, but even then it isn't Citizen Kane serious, it's a kid's show, it's supposed to be lighthearted, it's not fucking poetry or whatever.

[Dowlphin 463]

21 minutes ago, Jeric said:

Thanks MA Larson.

It also can start up a great conversation on whether fans are entitled to be a part of the creative process, and even who owns the art. This is an argument that has been present in the Harry Potter and Star Wars fandoms as their respective creators can let a finished work be finished.

That notorious statement, finally made unironically. ^^

Here's a deep thought: Maybe not even the writers should be too involved in the creative process. What I mean by that is that when you write with love, you become a character's historian. I think it was Larson who even said this in a panel. A good writer ideally doesn't decide on an outcome and then forces the story along, but puts a character into a situation and then explores how things develop. I found it great that he mentioned that because I had come to the same conclusion. And this is also how someone just 'gets' a character and can write for them. All through love. And you know it's real when it's humbling and not owned by the mind. I myself had some of my creative works be given that little but crucial touch by some random mishap that very much carried Pinkie's hoofprints. ^^ She's just that awesome and this kind of bridging of worlds is her forté. ;-)

 

17 minutes ago, Celli said:

Yeah, in the two parters they're a bit more serious, but even then it isn't Citizen Kane serious, it's a kid's show, it's supposed to be lighthearted, it's not fucking poetry or whatever.

Oh, it totally is fucking poetry to me! And I fucking love it! 8)

Edited August 15, 2017 by Dowlphin

[Sonic5421 423]

This was a pretty interesting episode that brought up the common idea that fandoms in the real world deal with. That common idea being everyone's varying opinions and questions that have yet to be answered in the show lately. Also, it was nice to see the return of the Friendship Journal since the events of Season 4, and how time has really done a number on it since then with the disuse and age on it before Starlight thought to create new ones for each of the Mane Six. However, once Twilight got the idea that she should publicize it for all of Equestria to learn from, she didn't expect things to spiral out of control like they did, and the song the Mane Six performed did nothing to convince the crowd to reconsider their opinions.

However, thanks to those two fillies that Twilight helped previously, who actually got the message that the Friendship Journal was putting across, it gave the Mane Six hope that friendship will always prevail, even through fads and trends that ponies deal with every day.

Pretty good episode, so I'll give it a 9/10.

[Dowlphin 463]

Just now, Sonic5421 said:

This was a pretty interesting episode that brought up the common idea that fandoms in the real world deal with. That common idea being everyone's varying opinions and questions that have yet to be answered in the show lately. Also, it was nice to see the return of the Friendship Journal since the events of Season 4, and how time has really done a number on it since then with the disuse and age on it before Starlight thought to create new ones for each of the Mane Six. However, once Twilight got the idea that she should publicize it for all of Equestria to learn from, she didn't expect things to spiral out of control like they did, and the song the Mane Six performed did nothing to convince the crowd to reconsider their opinions.

However, thanks to those two fillies that Twilight helped previously, who actually got the message that the Friendship Journal was putting across, it gave the Mane Six hope that friendship will always prevail, even through fads and trends that ponies deal with every day.

Pretty good episode, so I'll give it a 9/10.

I totally agree.

Just now, Sonic5421 said:

This was a pretty interesting episode that brought up the common idea that fandoms in the real world deal with. That common idea being everyone's varying opinions and questions that have yet to be answered in the show lately. Also, it was nice to see the return of the Friendship Journal since the events of Season 4, and how time has really done a number on it since then with the disuse and age on it before Starlight thought to create new ones for each of the Mane Six. However, once Twilight got the idea that she should publicize it for all of Equestria to learn from, she didn't expect things to spiral out of control like they did, and the song the Mane Six performed did nothing to convince the crowd to reconsider their opinions.

However, thanks to those two fillies that Twilight helped previously, who actually got the message that the Friendship Journal was putting across, it gave the Mane Six hope that friendship will always prevail, even through fads and trends that ponies deal with every day.

Pretty good episode, so I'll give it a 9/10.

Couldn't disagree more.

[CT-1138 3,182]

Liked the episode, the song I embrace with warm enthusiasm, and the lesson was solid. The fact that the episode took a deserved hit at the fandom's nitpickings was icing on the cake. 

[Sonic5421 423]

Just now, Dowlphin said:

I totally agree.

Couldn't disagree more.

You seem to have quoted me twice in your reply.

[Sparklefan1234 170,429]

20 minutes ago, Jeric said:

The consistency and technical flaws bug me. If they fixed that, I would rate this a higher rating than a 4/5 ... I honestly liked this episode's chutzpah

 

Before @King Clark & @Dark Qiviut explained the episode to me it was a 100 now, it's split in half because, I've had time to think it over for myself.

[Babyyoshi309 1,829]

I like meta jokes.

I also like Meta Knight.

[Ganondox 899]

On 8/12/2017 at 8:22 PM, Tilgoreth said:

Not sure why they chagned it. Larson obviously didn't include Glimmer because this was way back before she was even reformed. And the scene were Glimmer stays to comfort Rarity makes more sense if you put Spike in there instead. It's also not like they can say "oh he was somewhere else when this happend". I mean there is a upcoming Spike episode, which takes place in Ponyville. So unless he just happend to ignore all the drama surronding the mane six that wouldn't make any sense.

I don't think they changed anything, I don't think the episode was fleshed out enough when Larson originally wrote it to assign Spike or Starlight to a role. And the reason Starlight worked was because unlike Spike she wasn't tied up in the journal. Doesn't mean they shouldn't have had Spike at all, but he's not interchangeable with Starlight. 

[Dowlphin 463]

12 minutes ago, Sonic5421 said:

You seem to have quoted me twice in your reply.

I saw two postings from you and couldn't resist.

Strange that one seems gone now. I wonder which one. (Just pick one.)

7 minutes ago, Babyyoshi309 said:

I like meta jokes.

Heavy meta is music to my ears.

@Tilgoreth

I see from the quote in the previous post that you posted a bit of a spoiler. Please more care in the future. No talk about contents of upcoming episodes.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Dowlphin

[Sonic5421 423]

1 minute ago, Dowlphin said:

I saw two postings from you and couldn't resist.

Strange that one seems gone now. I wonder which one. (Just pick one.)

I only posted one post in this topic regarding my thoughts on the episode, I don't know how you thought I posted two of them when I only post one and wait to see if anyone likes it or quotes me on it.

Could have been a glitch when I posted due to other people posting around when I put mine up at the same time though.

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

14 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

I don't think they changed anything, I don't think the episode was fleshed out enough when Larson originally wrote it to assign Spike or Starlight to a role. And the reason Starlight worked was because unlike Spike she wasn't tied up in the journal. Doesn't mean they shouldn't have had Spike at all, but he's not interchangeable with Starlight. 

Except he is. Obviously certain details were changed. Spike, Fluttershy, and Starlight being the big ones. This feels like a season five episode. Because it probaly was, it either got scrapped or Larson liked his other ideas better. And Starlight serves the same role that Spike probaly originally served. I don't think Larson has said anything about the original script for this episode, and I'm sure there had to be some legal reason why he couldn't talk about the episode prior to it airing. 

16 minutes ago, Dowlphin said:

I saw two postings from you and couldn't resist.

Strange that one seems gone now. I wonder which one. (Just pick one.)

Heavy meta is music to my ears.

@Tilgoreth

I see from the quote in the previous post that you posted a bit of a spoiler. Please more care in the future. No talk about contents of upcoming episodes.

lol okay.

[Dowlphin 463]

I just checked out the song lyrics and realized there's a bit that is acoustically ambiguous, and that's totally my wavelength, heh. An audio pun that makes sense both ways.

"Ponies think I'm all bubbles and laughter - That I don't seem sincere - I might joke around a little too much . But I'm just so happy you're here"

In the third segment it's hard to tell whether she really said "joke" or "jump". I assumed "jump" because recently I realized there are actually some grumps who complain about Pinkie 'jumping too much'.

[Ganondox 899]

7 minutes ago, Tilgoreth said:

Except he is. Obviously certain details were changed. Spike, Fluttershy, and Starlight being the big ones. This feels like a season five episode. Because it probaly was, it either got scrapped or Larson liked his other ideas better. And Starlight serves the same role that Spike probaly originally served. I don't think Larson has said anything about the original script for this episode, and I'm sure there had to be some legal reason why he couldn't talk about the episode prior to it airing. 

You're working with the assumption the script originally contained Spike and then he was replaced with Starlight Glimmer later, but there is no proof of such. Larson said the end result was very different from what he wrote and thus he didn't really like his name being put on it, so if that's true, there probably wouldn't have been set roles.

And the point still stands that Spike is NOT interchangeable with Starlight because he was in the journal, he would have had his own fans to deal with. I think he should have been in the episode, but he couldn't just take Starlight's role without making significant changes. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Ganondox

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

Just now, Ganondox said:

You're working with the assumption the script originally contained Spike and then he was replaced with Starlight Glimmer later, but there is no proof of such. Larson said the end result was very different from what he wrote and thus he didn't really like his name being put on it, so if that's true.

And the point still stands that Spike is NOT interchangeable with Starlight because he was in the journal, he would have had his own fans to deal with. I think he should have been in the episode, but he couldn't just take Starlight's role without making significant changes. 

Unless Larson says what was changed will never know. I'm speculating though because of that one scene where Glimmer stays to comfort Rarity. It makes more sense with Spike.

[Ganondox 899]

Just now, Tilgoreth said:

Unless Larson says what was changed will never know. I'm speculating though because of that one scene where Glimmer stays to comfort Rarity. It makes more sense with Spike.

Maybe, need to watch the scene again, but one scene does not make the role. Either way it still works with Starlight, I found the scene kinda odd just because she hasn't done much with Rarity in the past, but Spike didn't even cross my mind for that particular scene, I just noticed his general absence. 

[Dowlphin 463]

18 minutes ago, Tilgoreth said:

Unless Larson says what was changed will never know. I'm speculating though because of that one scene where Glimmer stays to comfort Rarity. It makes more sense with Spike.

Apart from the fact the scene in question seems to simply be one where Starlight stayed behind with Rarity and then scene change: That statement carries the troubling implication that there's no reason to comfort someone in grief with your presence unless you got a crush on them. There is no 'more sense' in who is comforting her. They're all friends there and have empathy.

Seriously, sometimes the fandom seems to be clumsily exploring the basics of how to be human. Which, again, is very meta in the context of this very episode. (I can have some leniency though since according to statistics an unusually high percentage of the fandom is autistic, and that can lead to calculator-like rigid ideas of how things should follow orderly patterns and ensuing intolerance towards deviations. It's always helpful to be aware of such difficulties to understand the origins and not interpret it as malice. - I do have an interesting theory about the phenomenon though, based on a possible wide scale on whose low end people might just call it 'learned character traits'. Nothing is just yes/no there. Asperger is also categorized as a form of autism, yet it has been reported that people overcame it by mere experience, e.g. going to a brony convention and getting used to a more open socializing. Reconditioning the brain, basically. Ergo, various afflictions of the psyche that are seen like carved in stone might just need powerful impulses for change that are rarely given.)

Edited August 15, 2017 by Dowlphin

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

Just now, Ganondox said:

Maybe, need to watch the scene again, but one scene does not make the role. Either way it still works with Starlight, I found the scene kinda odd just because she hasn't done much with Rarity in the past, but Spike didn't even cross my mind for that particular scene, I just noticed his general absence. 

Because Spike still has a crush on Rarity, and he's comforted her before. Inspiration Manefestation only happend because Spike felt bad for Rarity.

Just now, Dowlphin said:

Apart from the fact the scene in question seems to simply be one where Starlight stayed behind with Rarity and then scene change: That statement carries the troubling implication that there's no reason to comfort someone in grief with your presence unless you got a crush on them. There is no 'more sense' in who is comforting her. They're all friends there and have empathy.

There is no reason if you don't know them personally. And it's not always easy to provide emotional support. Especially if you think their problem is trivial. You'll think I'm being a dick, but I do beilive that at a certain point everyone has to buck up.

[SaburoDaimando 1,196]

I've had a bit of a thought since the airing of the episode.  I wonder, "How would My Little Pony poke fun at the haters of the series?"

The only thing I could think of was to create an in-show type of property.  

Let's say there's a new comic book series that Spike likes to read lately.  Twilight notices this, and for some reason also takes an interest.  Suddenly, friends and family are starting to take the same interest in this comic book series as Spike does.  Everything goes well.

Until a group of anti-fans start ridiculing fans for liking the comic book by stating that it's for little kids.  The hypocrisy is that said Anti-fans also ridicule Spike, the Cutie Mark Crusaders and even Diamond Tiara for liking the comic book as well, even telling them to grow up.  Soon, ponies are afraid of even liking the comic book series, out of fear that they may be given a negative label.  Even Twilight Sparkle, the Princess of Friendship, becomes nervous over these haters.

And in a twist that causes the haters to rage even further, it is revealed that Princess Celestia is the biggest fan of the Comic Book series.

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

1 hour ago, Spivey said:

How about anytime there's a major villain like Queen Chrysalis or Lord Tirek? The show writers expect us to take this crap seriously! Even in episodes like "Feeling Pinkie Keen", the writers expect us to take it seriously!

Naw, that's all you. The writers just write the damn thing, they don't control how people react to it. The fandom is the group who are taking and treating a kids cartoon show like it is some version of Game of Thrones or something and then writing nonsensical reviews or long winded meandering posts about how it wasn't up to their overly serious or sensitive expectations. 

Some of the reviews I see sounds like they were expecting Macbeth instead of talking Easter egg colored horses and are honestly astonished that indeed, that is what they show is about. Chrissy and Tirek are just normal villains, they don't actually kill anyone or do anything super horrific and only come off as threatening due to the overall theme of the show, so I don't get where you see the super serious stuff at. More serious than the run of the mill episode, sure... overly serious.. not a chance... unless you are choosing to see it that way.

This fandom is full of some great people and very supportive fans, but it is also full of some fans that literally forget that this show is aimed at a completely different audience and they are just along for the ride... it is exactly the same as that relative in the back seat that complains the entire road trip and keeps telling everyone else how to drive or how to find their way when everyone else just wants to enjoy themselves and enjoy the ride.

[Ganondox 899]

1 hour ago, Dowlphin said:

Apart from the fact the scene in question seems to simply be one where Starlight stayed behind with Rarity and then scene change: That statement carries the troubling implication that there's no reason to comfort someone in grief with your presence unless you got a crush on them. There is no 'more sense' in who is comforting her. They're all friends there and have empathy.

Seriously, sometimes the fandom seems to be clumsily exploring the basics of how to be human. Which, again, is very meta in the context of this very episode. (I can have some leniency though since according to statistics an unusually high percentage of the fandom is autistic, and that can lead to calculator-like rigid ideas of how things should follow orderly patterns and ensuing intolerance towards deviations. It's always helpful to be aware of such difficulties to understand the origins and not interpret it as malice. - I do have an interesting theory about the phenomenon though, based on a possible wide scale on whose low end people might just call it 'learned character traits'. Nothing is just yes/no there. Asperger is also categorized as a form of autism, yet it has been reported that people overcame it by mere experience, e.g. going to a brony convention and getting used to a more open socializing. Reconditioning the brain, basically. Ergo, various afflictions of the psyche that are seen like carved in stone might just need powerful impulses for change that are rarely given.)

People don't overcome autism, they just get better social skills. Has nothing to do with reconditioning the brain, there is far more to autism than just social stuff, and there is far more things than just autism which impair social skills. That being said, people's brains change throughout a life time in response to experience, it's called neuroplasticity, and it can be used autism treatment, but it must start from a *much* younger age in order to be effective, is actually focused on sensory integration rather than social skills, and even then it doesn't quite turn the person neurotypical, it just fixes the sensory problems enough to prevent early social delays which lead to further problems later one. 

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

1 hour ago, Dowlphin said:

Apart from the fact the scene in question seems to simply be one where Starlight stayed behind with Rarity and then scene change: That statement carries the troubling implication that there's no reason to comfort someone in grief with your presence unless you got a crush on them. There is no 'more sense' in who is comforting her. They're all friends there and have empathy.

Seriously, sometimes the fandom seems to be clumsily exploring the basics of how to be human. Which, again, is very meta in the context of this very episode. (I can have some leniency though since according to statistics an unusually high percentage of the fandom is autistic, and that can lead to calculator-like rigid ideas of how things should follow orderly patterns and ensuing intolerance towards deviations. It's always helpful to be aware of such difficulties to understand the origins and not interpret it as malice. - I do have an interesting theory about the phenomenon though, based on a possible wide scale on whose low end people might just call it 'learned character traits'. Nothing is just yes/no there. Asperger is also categorized as a form of autism, yet it has been reported that people overcame it by mere experience, e.g. going to a brony convention and getting used to a more open socializing. Reconditioning the brain, basically. Ergo, various afflictions of the psyche that are seen like carved in stone might just need powerful impulses for change that are rarely given.)

As if empathy is always the answer. Sometimes you just have to stop being a bitch about it.

[Ganondox 899]

11 minutes ago, Tilgoreth said:

As if empathy is always the answer. Sometimes you just have to stop being a bitch about it.

That's just moving the responsibility from the bystander to the victim, it's not an alternative solution, much less the correct one.