S07:E14 - Fame and Misfortune

[DayDream1223 0]

I honestly Believe this is one of the most best episodes they could give us. Truly does show the Fandom from the eyes of the creators and their hard work. It's not only gives us a shout out, but also teaches a good lesson of privacy and realizing that there will always be haters and people with different types of feelings and opinions. Overall 8 out of 10 I would give

[Dowlphin 459]

27 minutes ago, Justin_Case001 said:

Holy crap.  I didn't even notice that.  That's pretty cool.

Also, I was definitely right about one thing: DWK's recap was definitely pretty spectacular.  Kinda made it all worth it for me.  I've also definitely concluded that the show now takes place in two different universes--the real FIM universe, and the Donnie Darko tangent universe that has collided with ours.  Each episode can be thought of as simultaneously existing in the real universe and the tangent universe, and only by watching the episode will we know which it is.  I'm characterizing this phenomenon as Schdrodinger's Pony.

What's even more amazing is that among all the things fans do with their OCs, different mane and tail colors is something I have never seen. (Also haven't seen styling mix yet, AFAIR, neither in show or fandom.)

What does universe/dimension/reality entanglement have to do with Schrödinger's Cat?

Edited August 22, 2017 by Dowlphin

[Justin_Case001 4,857]

25 minutes ago, Dowlphin said:

What does universe/dimension/reality entanglement have to do with Schrödinger's Cat?

Oh....uh....uhhh....nothing, really, I guess.  I just thought it was funny.  Forget it.  I just meant that for me, each episode is going to have this uncertainty thing going on, where I wonder which universe it will take place in.  And of course, this whole "tangent universe" thing is just a bit, just my silly way of grumbling about what I don't like.  Pay it no mind.

[Dowlphin 459]

1 hour ago, Justin_Case001 said:

Oh....uh....uhhh....nothing, really, I guess.  I just thought it was funny.  Forget it.  I just meant that for me, each episode is going to have this uncertainty thing going on, where I wonder which universe it will take place in.  And of course, this whole "tangent universe" thing is just a bit, just my silly way of grumbling about what I don't like.  Pay it no mind.

To make things even more cryptic but with puns, you could express dislike by using the term "Dannie Dorko episode".

[cmarston1 5,952]

I felt like the episode actually did a pretty decent job at criticizing the toxic behavior of fandom culture and showed why it was wrong.

And I do feel that it actually had a conclusion, even if it wasn't the one people were asking for.

With the nature of how fandoms treat the show staff there is always going to be obnoxious jerks who are going to harass them and sadly that isn't going to stop anytime soon.

So there isn't really much they can do about it, even after calling said behavior out (such as what happened during the horrible reactions to the first EQG movie before it was even released), so they kinda don't have much choice but to just wait for them to shut up, and just focus on the people who actually appreciate their work instead.

[Thrond 3,257]

On 8/18/2017 at 11:29 AM, Dowlphin said:

BTW among all this drama it is peculiar how little people seem to be talking about Toola Roola, first pony in the show with different mane and tail colors. (Unless it's just dyed, but still.) I found that to be metaphorically nice considering such typical fandom OC playfulness is found on the ponies who heed the lesson of the episode.)

I'm just distracted by the asymmetry of that colour scheme. 

[JonasDarkmane 19,777]

Loved it. I loved the episode. 

I do like it when content creators take a jab at their own fans. Always fun poking the hornets nest (don't do it in real life kids). 

 

The music was catchy, I liked how everybody were not totally buying into the song. 

 

Some say it was cruel of the show to do it towards their fans, stereotyping like that. I don't think so. I don't think they are really saying the entire fandom acts like that. Highlighting negative sides does not automatically mean they are denying the good sides of it. 

 

But eh. The episode was great. 

[Violet Bookish 349]

10 hours ago, cmarston1 said:

19 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

"Wouldn't posts like this post and @Ranky64's from earlier be best suited to the episode discussion thread itself? I'm not sure additional threads are necessary."

Oh well, I'm new here and I had no idea that existed. Also, I feel it's a lot easier to have it as my own post so people responding to it are solely responding to my response to the episode like I intended. It'd just be super messy and too hard for me to manage if tons of people were debating different opinions all at once, so it's better to have the post be in it's own little area. I'm sure Ranky64 probably had the same kind of thought process, but you'd have to ask him. Also, since they do let you create post discussing the episodes I really don't think it's an issue and I prefer this method. With other sites whenever I write about my opinion I usually don't go looking for a big group or post it on someone else's post about it, instead, I make my own post. Sure I will comment on other peoples post if I have something I'd like to say but my own post on the matter have always been separate, so, to me, It'd just seem weird to do that and it would be way too messy for my taste. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say and why I prefer making my own post.

"As for your opinion: If the writers meant the episode to be a metaphor for their own experiences, I really don't think this was the best way to go about it, as I don't think the public harassment by everyone the mane six meets is a good metaphor for online harassment and the occasional (though clearly very harmful) group of jerks at a con, or that the journal is a good metaphor for a fictional television program."

That's basically what I said so I agree with that part.

"So I agree that this episode feels too extreme for what it's seemingly trying to say, but I don't really think having the mane six bite back further would have made me enjoy the episode much more, because I generally think it's kinda murky and simplistic in its representation of fandom, and that'd make its mocking repetition of common criticisms of the show feel even more mean-spirited to me."

I don't feel like Twilight simply saying they needed to do something about the constant public harassment would be biting back. In fact, I feel like it would have better helped develop the message and clear up any false impressions. I feel like, while it wouldn't be my favorite episode, I would have at least enjoyed the message if those false impressions were cleared up. To me, it was harsher because they didn't address how the main six would stop the public harassment they need to deal with and it made me concerned and uncomfortable that they basically shrugged it off and said, "this is just our lives now." It would have made me more comfortable if I knew the main six were taking steps to stop the public harassment and gets some privacy, that way I know they're going to be okay after all they've been through and they won't have to deal with those terrible things again. But how they ended off the episode makes it seem like their just excepting being constantly being publicly harassed which really doesn't bode well.

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10 hours ago, cmarston1 said:

"I felt like the episode actually did a pretty decent job at criticizing the toxic behavior of fandom culture and showed why it was wrong."

I do too but my issue was that some of the acts in nature were clearly public harassment and in the end, the main six basically shrugged it off and just accepted it as their life now without showing any signs they were going to do anything about the constant public harassment. This made me uncomfortable and very concerned for the main six as they can't live nor do they deserve to live like that and something needs to be done.

"And I do feel that it actually had a conclusion, even if it wasn't the one people were asking for."

Yes there is a conclusion but it was rushed and it definitely could have been improved on.

"With the nature of how fandoms treat the show staff there is always going to be obnoxious jerks who are going to harass them and sadly that isn't going to stop anytime soon."

I understand this, but in the show, it's a bit different. A lot of the acts were just straight up public harassment. Like I said in my original post, there's a difference between idiots screaming on the internet and someone going to your home to harras you. The main six have a similar situation as Hasbro of course, but regardless there are differences and I wish in the end we got at least a tiny clue they would do something about the public harassment so we knew they weren't going to let these people make their lives miserable and constantly publicly harras them. 

"So there isn't really much they can do about it, even after calling said behavior out (such as what happened during the horrible reactions to the first EQG movie before it was even released), so they kinda don't have much choice but to just wait for them to shut up, and just focus on the people who actually appreciate their work instead."

I stayed in my first post a simple change they could have added to the end and Twilight's dialogue to fix it. This would only make the ending a tad bit longer and it would clear up any false impressions. I get the message but as I've said before, the main six's situation is different. I understand the metaphor but regardless, again, the main six just isn't getting hate mail, they're being publicly harassed. All we needed was a tiny hint they were going to do something about it and I would have liked this episode as I'd be more comfortable knowing they were going to stop the constant public harassment rather than letting that happen to them.

They did great with the part with Rarity and the fact she needed to get a tougher skin, but when it came to Apple Jack and Twilight's section... it got a lot more serious and was definitely something that needed to be dealt with. Heck, if they had done more like Rarity's and say maybe Pinkie Pie's this wouldn't be an issue. I'd even be okay with the big riot at Twilight's castle because I understand the point it was trying to make if it wasn't for Apple Jack's segment and even Fluttershy's to an extent. I understand the message but it would have been nice to have a little hint something was going to be done about the ones that went way overboard. But I will admit, if we do see in the next episode there are taking precautions to stop the public harassment (please not I keep saying public as that's the only one that can have something done about it) then I feel like my thoughts on this episode will change, but we'll have to see.

Again, I understand the message, it's just I had issues being happy about the message when I was so concerned that the characters I know and love would let this kind of public harassment happen to them again. It made it very hard for me to enjoy the episode because of this fact, so, please understand while I like and appreciate the message, I couldn't enjoy the episode because this big issue was left unaddressed. So yes the episode had some redeeming qualities though my post only focused on the bad, please realize I see theses and I don't think it's all bad, I just felt like this was an issue the episode really needed to addressed and without it being adressed the happy ended seemed forced and not really happy because I was still worrying about the fact the main six might now have to constantly deal with those terrible things we saw them go through again and again and again from now on. It left me really unsure, so I found and still find it really hard to enjoy it. 

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19 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Found out how to edit the other post but sadly can not delete post. Still getting a hang of it so just ignore this one, I made it to clarify on something before I realize when you hit edit it includes all the post, so just excuse my newbishness.

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Edited August 23, 2017 by ButterQuilt

[Thrond 3,257]

3 hours ago, ButterQuilt said:

I don't feel like Twilight simply saying they needed to do something about the constant public harassment would be biting back. In fact, I feel like it would have better helped develop the message and clear up any false impressions. I feel like, while it wouldn't be my favorite episode, I would have at least enjoyed the message if those false impressions were cleared up. To me, it was harsher because they didn't address how the main six would stop the public harassment they need to deal with and it made me concerned and uncomfortable that they basically shrugged it off and said, "this is just our lives now." It would have made me more comfortable if I knew the main six were taking steps to stop the public harassment and gets some privacy, that way I know they're going to be okay after all they've been through and they won't have to deal with those terrible things again. But how they ended off the episode makes it seem like their just excepting being constantly being publicly harassed which really doesn't bode well.

Come to think of it, the mane six addressing that the public harassment rather than defending themselves from criticism then giving up probably would have made me a little less displeased with the episode as well. 

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

@ButterQuilt, @Ginger Ale

Just letting you know that I merged your thread with the main episode thread of Fame and Misfortune as  the discussion fit better here.

Thanks.

Also; this is a notice to PLEASE keep discussions calm. There was a few instances in this thread of emotions spilling over a tad too much so I ask that everyone keep a calm head in regards to this episode.

Thanks.

[StoryTail 103]

I liked the episode!

 

But I couldn't help feeling sorry for Rarity with all the ponies hating on her.   Poor Rarity!  It's okay, you're my favorite pony!  And I'd definitely have my pony persona fangirling over her, if I could.

Edited August 23, 2017 by StoryTail

[Singe 2,109]

The entire episode laid down story materials and lines that could have been used for other episodes. Though it feels like it's been thrown away to make a point.

Mane 6 really aren't the kind of characters to take a jab at each other like other fictional characters.

For example: Instead of a crowd complaining about Fluttershy relearning the same lesson, it could have casually been mentioned by any of the other Mane 6 or Starlight Glimmer.

[Violet Bookish 349]

21 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Come to think of it, the mane six addressing that the public harassment rather than defending themselves from criticism then giving up probably would have made me a little less displeased with the episode as well. 

Yep. Those were my thoughts exactly. That one little change would have really made me appreciate the episode a lot more.

8 hours ago, Singe said:

The entire episode laid down story materials and lines that could have been used for other episodes. Though it feels like it's been thrown away to make a point.

Mane 6 really aren't the kind of characters to take a jab at each other like other fictional characters.

For example: Instead of a crowd complaining about Fluttershy relearning the same lesson, it could have casually been mentioned by any of the other Mane 6 or Starlight Glimmer.

I agree. I feel like it had a lot of other story materials and lines because the idea and episode just seemed unpolished. Because of this, the episode ended up being a mix of a bunch of messages thrown together, ones that should have been widdled down so the episode wasn't so messy and so the main focus and message were a bit more clear. I understand what they were aiming at but there are still so many things that could have been discussed in the episode and the whole public harassment issue I stated in my other post that should have been answered but were left up in the air. 

I feel like some of the characters take jabs at each other every once and a while. For example, we saw Apple Jack and Rarity poke fun at each other in the episode Look Before You Sleep and a to some extent in Simple Ways. We've also seen Apple Jack and Rainbowdash jab each other as well.So, while it may not happen frequently I still think it happens and they are the kind of characters that can and will do this if put in the right situations.

See, I personally don't think this word work. Why? Will it's quite simple, Fluttershy is not the kind of character you can really make jabs at. She's sensitive and shy and, in my opinion, any of the characters trying to say it casually or gently jabbing her would just seem insensitive and she probably wouldn't take it well. I can see maybe Rainbow Dash doing this as she can be brutally honest at times and Starlight might be able to get away with this considering her character, but I'm still not sure it would have really worked out that way. If it was an episode about learning to take constructive criticism and using it to improve yourself, then that would definitely work. However, that wasn't the goal of the episode as the episode wanted to point out toxic behaviors in the community hints why the crowd was the one to say it rather than the main six.

However, while I don't think it would work out in this particular episode I would love to see them use this in a future episode as a lesson about taking constructive criticism. Because Fluttershy is upset so easily, I feel like it would be a very valuable lesson for her to learn.

[Dowlphin 459]

22 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Come to think of it, the mane six addressing that the public harassment rather than defending themselves from criticism then giving up probably would have made me a little less displeased with the episode as well. 

Wouldn't that have been too formulaic? ;-) I think it was a bit of a surprise twist and an important message. You cannot always expect to change the whole world and your influence can be very relative. There are influences that are overwhelming for anyone and then it might be wise to just take a step back and focus on the positive energy instead. It's an episode conclusion one can meditate on and I find it beautiful. - Also, they hinted that of course they will deal with the situation - just later, after taking a breather. And we can all imagine how that might go from earlier episodes, so we don't need to see it.

[Thrond 3,257]

5 minutes ago, Dowlphin said:

Wouldn't that have been too formulaic? ;-) I think it was a bit of a surprise twist and an important message. You cannot always expect to change the whole world and your influence can be very relative. There are influences that are overwhelming for anyone and then it might be wise to just take a step back and focus on the positive energy instead. It's an episode conclusion one can meditate on and I find it beautiful. - Also, they hinted that of course they will deal with the situation - just later, after taking a breather. And we can all imagine how that might go from earlier episodes, so we don't need to see it.

These are ponies who are bothering the mane six in person, so I really don't think it's equivalent to people complaining about a show/book/whatever online or whatever; in a vacuum, the moral is fine, but as is I feel like the episode makes much more of a point about the fact that the mane six are being criticized at all than about the fact that ponies are basically harassing them with those criticisms. 

[Violet Bookish 349]

17 hours ago, Dowlphin said:

Wouldn't that have been too formulaic? ;-) I think it was a bit of a surprise twist and an important message. You cannot always expect to change the whole world and your influence can be very relative. There are influences that are overwhelming for anyone and then it might be wise to just take a step back and focus on the positive energy instead. It's an episode conclusion one can meditate on and I find it beautiful. - Also, they hinted that of course they will deal with the situation - just later, after taking a breather. And we can all imagine how that might go from earlier episodes, so we don't need to see it.

I understand what you're saying and I get the message but the fact that we had to watch them go through such awful things just to see them say "this is basically our life now" for me, made the ending a lot more bittersweet than beautiful and it concerned me. I couldn't help but be worried they'd let this harassment continue since, again, they basically said that was their life now and I feel like they tried to sugar coat all the things that had happened in a way. Not hinting at it just made me feel terribly uneasy and made the ending unenjoyable for me, but that's just me.

17 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

These are ponies who are bothering the mane six in person, so I really don't think it's equivalent to people complaining about a show/book/whatever online or whatever; in a vacuum, the moral is fine, but as is I feel like the episode makes much more of a point about the fact that the mane six are being criticized at all than about the fact that ponies are basically harassing them with those criticisms. 

Basically, sums up how I feel. The main issue I had with the show was ponies literally going up and publicly harassing the the main six was a lot more different than people complaining about a work and a lot more of an issue, as you explained. I also liked the moral but also felt like it focused way too much on the fact they were being criticized rather than *how* they were being criticized. The episode seemed to put way more emphasis on the criticisms rather than the fact, as you said, they were harassing them with these criticisms. It really bothered me because it felt like it shrugged off the fact the main six were being terribly publicly harassed and seemed to focus more on the fact the ponies were saying hurtful things to them. Sure that can be hurtful and the main six needed to learn to ignore this criticism, but on the other end of the spectrum, they shouldn't ignore the fact that ponies literally harassed them on the streets and went onto their private property to do it. The other thing should be shrugged off while the second really needs to be addressed and dealt with before one of them gets hurt because of it.

So, basically, my big issue with this episode was the fact it was a double edged sword. On one side it gives a great message about needing to ignore the hate their work may get and focusing more on the people it inspired, and on the other side it ignores the huge issue with the fact these ponies weren't just sending them hate mail, they were harassing them on the streets and on their private property. To me I felt like, in that situation, that was the bigger issue than the criticisms themselves. Criticisms will hurt your feelings but being publicly harassed all the time can cause issues and when people are literally coming to your home to harras you and have some sort of protest against your book just because they didn't like it... well, that's definitely a big problem that needs to be dealt with. No reasonable reader/viewer would go to your home to complain to you and harras you about your book. If they do, well, chances are they could be a dangerous person and the maker of the work could get hurt in result of these kinds of people coming to their home. This is why this episode had me so concerned, because if that kind of behavior is not stopped someone is bound to get hurt.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Butterquilt
Just edits to clarify because I like clarifying things.

[Singe 2,109]

13 hours ago, Butterquilt said:

Yep. Those were my thoughts exactly. That one little change would have really made me appreciate the episode a lot more.

I agree. I feel like it had a lot of other story materials and lines because the idea and episode just seemed unpolished. Because of this, the episode ended up being a mix of a bunch of messages thrown together, ones that should have been widdled down so the episode wasn't so messy and so the main focus and message were a bit more clear. I understand what they were aiming at but there are still so many things that could have been discussed in the episode and the whole public harassment issue I stated in my other post that should have been answered but were left up in the air. 

I feel like some of the characters take jabs at each other every once and a while. For example, we saw Apple Jack and Rarity poke fun at each other in the episode Look Before You Sleep and a to some extent in Simple Ways. We've also seen Apple Jack and Rainbowdash jab each other as well.So, while it may not happen frequently I still think it happens and they are the kind of characters that can and will do this if put in the right situations.

See, I personally don't think this word work. Why? Will it's quite simple, Fluttershy is not the kind of character you can really make jabs at. She's sensitive and shy and, in my opinion, any of the characters trying to say it casually or gently jabbing her would just seem insensitive and she probably wouldn't take it well. I can see maybe Rainbow Dash doing this as she can be brutally honest at times and Starlight might be able to get away with this considering her character, but I'm still not sure it would have really worked out that way. If it was an episode about learning to take constructive criticism and using it to improve yourself, then that would definitely work. However, that wasn't the goal of the episode as the episode wanted to point out toxic behaviors in the community hints why the crowd was the one to say it rather than the main six.

However, while I don't think it would work out in this particular episode I would love to see them use this in a future episode as a lesson about taking constructive criticism. Because Fluttershy is upset so easily, I feel like it would be a very valuable lesson for her to learn.

This episode shows where the show hasn't worked on the ones that mattered to fans and probably there might never be episodes dealing with those flaws of the characters. The comics could do it.

Writers can setup any kind of delivery method for criticism when dealing with Fluttershy. It could range from being strong mean to light comedic remark.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Singe

[cmarston1 5,952]

11 hours ago, Dowlphin said:

Wouldn't that have been too formulaic? ;-) I think it was a bit of a surprise twist and an important message. You cannot always expect to change the whole world and your influence can be very relative. There are influences that are overwhelming for anyone and then it might be wise to just take a step back and focus on the positive energy instead. It's an episode conclusion one can meditate on and I find it beautiful. - Also, they hinted that of course they will deal with the situation - just later, after taking a breather. And we can all imagine how that might go from earlier episodes, so we don't need to see it.

I actually really liked that twist for going against what the show usual does.

Instead of pulling a The Times They Are a Changeling and having a single song being all it needed to take to resolve a plot dealing with a heavy subject matter such as prejudice, the episode ending up going for a different and more interesting direction.

 

[Violet Bookish 349]

6 hours ago, Singe said:

This episode shows where the show hasn't worked on the ones that mattered to fans and probably there might never be episodes dealing with those flaws of the characters. The comics could do it.

Writers can setup any kind of delivery method for criticism when dealing with Fluttershy. It could range from being strong mean to light comedic remark.

 

That's true and I agree and also doubt they will make an episode on it considering some of the issues fans have pointed out that they haven't been addressed.

I get your point, though, again, when it comes to Fluttershy if it's not done right it will ruin the whole operation. Fluttershy is sensitive and if just one thing is not worded or presented well it could come off as insensitive. Basically, the writer has to make sure it truly comes off as constructive criticism, Fluttershy might seem justified in being upset and make the other characters just seem insensitive. An example of this would be Pinkie Pie going overboard describing Fluttershy's stage fright in Filly Vanilli. What one would usually find funny seemed incredibly insensitive because of Fluttershy, the very sensitive one, was the one being hurt for the sake of the joke. We saw this done before in Sonic Rainboom. However, Rainbow Dash, the over confident one, was the one being hurt for the sake of the joke. Personally, I found the one in Sonic Rainboom funny and the one in Filly Vanilli as Pinkie pie just being insensitive. This was mostly because Rainbow Dash is usually very confident about these things while for Fluttershy it's a big issue. Rainbow Dash has funny and somewhat over the top reactions to it were as Fluttershy will burst out crying because of it.

I mostly say what I did about constructive criticism is because of this episode in question. In this episode, one of the examples of toxic fans were ones that complained about Fluttershy's development. I hated the ponies doing this in the episode but in the fandom, some fans actually have some constructive things to say about Fluttershy's development issue and it annoyed me that was put in the episode as an example of "toxic fans" when some have genuine points to make about it. It just seemed a lot more like constructive criticism than hate and it makes me worry about the writers and Hasbro's perception on constructive criticism vs hate.

6 hours ago, cmarston1 said:

I actually really liked that twist for going against what the show usual does.

Instead of pulling a The Times They Are a Changeling and having a single song being all it needed to take to resolve a plot dealing with a heavy subject matter such as prejudice, the episode ending up going for a different and more interesting direction.

 

Actually, I personally disagree. I feel like the message was similar to Times They are a Changeling. It wasn't given enough time to air out and a lot of things were left unaddressed and or under developed. In short, both this and that episode felt rather rushed to me. In Times They are a Changeling the problem was fixed by one song while in this episode the lesson was to basically shrug it off. Sure they sang a song and that didn't fix the problem like it did in They Are a Changeling, but the resolution was literally about 5 minutes after that and, in my opinion, was just as hasty as it was in Times They are A Changeling. Coming back to my issue with Fame and Misfortune's lesson, as I've said before, it's good to just ignore it when you get hate, not public harassment. In both episodes, they didn't really take the time to develop the message and went for a rushed ending instead of giving the subject matter more development. Along with that, both episodes felt rather unpolished. Fame and Misfortune seemingly has several messages it's trying to portray all in one episode, making the episode seem rather messy to me. Instead, they should have polished more and choose to focus on one thing. Personally, I would have liked it if they either focused on ignoring criticisms or when criticisms go too far. They tried to focus on both making the ending seem rushed and concerning. Yes, you should shrug off situations like Rarity's where she just overheard someone saying a not too nice thing about her. However, for situations like Apple Jack's, Fluttershy's, and even Rainbow Dash's, shrugging it off and just letting people constantly harras them isn't going to help anything and could end up getting one of them hurt. It would have been nice if it would have been addressed that Rarity was being over dramatic and that those cases need to be shrugged but also explained that Apple Jack, Fluttershy, and Rainbow Dash's situations were examples of criticism going too far and needed to be put to a stop. Instead, the episode seemed to portray these situations like they were all under the same roof. They're not. One is simple hate they need to learn to ignore, the others I listed, however, were public harassment. At least Times They are a Changeling was way more clear about its message and stuck with it.

Yes, I realize in Fame and Misfortune they were not trying to say to do nothing about the harassment but it came off like that and it was concerning to see the main six go through so many terrible things and then just shrug it all off in the end. Basically, I would have liked to see a bit more complexity with a lesson like this one, especially considering how the hate presented to us was mostly shown in the form of public harassment. If they're not even going to address this fact it shouldn't have been presented that way. I feel like the saying "show don't tell" fits this situation. They both showed and told us the lesson, but what they told us was different than what they showed us. They told the audience to ignore hate, they presented it as public harassment. Because of this, it seemed as if they were saying to shrug off public harassment rather than shrugging off hate because the hate was not presented as fans simply having issues with the book (Rarity's however presented this perfectly) and rather, was presented as the main six being publicly harassed. Again, two different situations that need to be reacted to in two different ways. I think the best way to help make this episode better was described in what @AlexanderThrond said.

17 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

These are ponies who are bothering the mane six in person, so I really don't think it's equivalent to people complaining about a show/book/whatever online or whatever; in a vacuum, the moral is fine, but as is I feel like the episode makes much more of a point about the fact that the mane six are being criticized at all than about the fact that ponies are basically harassing them with those criticisms. 

And my post in reply I feel also helps further explain how I feel the episode could have been fixed and why I had a big issue with it.

 

17 hours ago, Butterquilt said:

Basically, sums up how I feel. The main issue I had with the show was ponies literally going up and publicly harassing the the main six was a lot more different than people complaining about a work and a lot more of an issue, as you explained. I also liked the moral but also felt like it focused way too much on the fact they were being criticized rather than *how* they were being criticized. The episode seemed to put way more emphasis on the criticisms rather than the fact, as you said, they were harassing them with these criticisms. It really bothered me because it felt like it shrugged off the fact the main six were being terribly publicly harassed and seemed to focus more on the fact the ponies were saying hurtful things to them. Sure that can be hurtful and the main six needed to learn to ignore this criticism, but on the other end of the spectrum, they shouldn't ignore the fact that ponies literally harassed them on the streets and went onto their private property to do it. The other thing should be shrugged off while the second really needs to be addressed and dealt with before one of them gets hurt because of it.

So, basically, my big issue with this episode was the fact it was a double edged sword. On one side it gives a great message about needing to ignore the hate their work may get and focusing more on the people it inspired, and on the other side it ignores the huge issue with the fact these ponies weren't just sending them hate mail, they were harassing them on the streets and on their private property. To me I felt like, in that situation, that was the bigger issue than the criticisms themselves. Criticisms will hurt your feelings but being publicly harassed all the time can cause issues and when people are literally coming to your home to harras you and have some sort of protest against your book just because they didn't it... well, that's definitely a big problem that needs to be dealt with. No reasonable reader/viewer would go to your home to complain to you and harras you about your book. If they do, well, chances are they could be a dangerous person and the maker of the work could get hurt in result of these kinds of people coming to their home. This is why this episode had me so concerned, because if that kind of behavior is not stopped someone is bound to get hurt.

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Edited August 24, 2017 by Butterquilt
Again going into more detail to better explain myself.

[Jon the VGNerd 842]

My reaction when Rarity's insanity face shows up when she says "Why I'm creating a gown, darling!":

 

[Dowlphin 459]

I wrote a blog entry about something that just happened in another fan community that reminded me so much of this recent episode:

 

[heavens-champion 1,893]

On 8/22/2017 at 5:18 PM, JonasDarkmane said:

Loved it. I loved the episode. 

I do like it when content creators take a jab at their own fans. Always fun poking the hornets nest (don't do it in real life kids). 

 

The music was catchy, I liked how everybody were not totally buying into the song. 

 

Some say it was cruel of the show to do it towards their fans, stereotyping like that. I don't think so. I don't think they are really saying the entire fandom acts like that. Highlighting negative sides does not automatically mean they are denying the good sides of it. 

 

But eh. The episode was great. 

It seems fitting they'd poke fun at the more toxic parts of the fandom. You see a lot of those kinds of MLP fans on Equestria Daily.

[Dowlphin 459]

9 minutes ago, heavens-champion said:

It seems fitting they'd poke fun at the more toxic parts of the fandom. You see a lot of those kinds of MLP fans on Equestria Daily.

That's what one can expect from the manestream media. ;-)

[Brightbart 268]

Nice to get a song, a good one too; I feel like there haven't been that many this season. Someone can probably remind me otherwise but this seems like the first episode where the conflict wasn't resolved. The mane 6 sort of just resigned to deal with it later so definitely a break from how the episodes usually go. I wonder if we'll a quick little cameo of this in the future, maybe a comment made in the background etc. I think that'd be good attention to detail on the part of the writers. 

One thing this episode made me think of is how much older the mane 6 are now compared to the seasons 1/2. That book looked quite old and the mane 6 are more mature/act older than they used to which is some nice character development. Overall I'm really enjoying this season, definitely an improvement from season 6 and this episode continued this trend . 

[Jeric 46,835]

Silver Quill actually had a curious take on the episode, actually turning the moral on its head and saying that the fans aren't flawless. I also found it amusing that he uses Trek to highlight one of his points as this fandom (especially at cons) reminds me of an adolescent Trek fandom (or what it would have looked like if the internet was as ubiquitous back then as it is today) . 

 

 

 

Completely unrelated to the episode, I did not know Silver covered the famous Barthes essay. Have to check out that video to make sure he actually did it justice since most that invoke it have no fucking idea what the hell else it said. I saw someone mention that it's a trope, ignoring the fact that it's actually an entire philosophy of literary critique that surfaced decades ago based around the same concept. If that is a trope, talk about a meta paradox.