news ToonKriticY2K and accusations of sexual misconduct

[ZethaPonderer 2,200]

6 minutes ago, Feather Scribbles said:

I am saying that instead of defending the fandom outright (ex. saying that ToonKritic does not define us), we should be ensuring that other people know that what he did is not acceptable within the fandom. We have to take this extremely seriously. Sometimes you have to face the darkness in order to emerge back into the light. (If the fandom ever recovers. But it isn't just about the fandom anymore.)

But then again, we are all entitled to our own opinion.

Ok then fair point, but either way you look at it on the Anti-Brony’s perspective (which I was originally) I would consider what you’re recommending the latter option as defending the fandom either way.

 

Both sides are being legit serious about the situation either way.

 

But I understand what your saying. The former way “Defending The Fandom Outright” is not good enough and is off-putting so the latter must be adopted as the safest alternative to the solution.

 

Ok then. Thanks man. Now I get it.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,162]

I think one perspective that is confusing me is why does "defending the fandom" and "being tough on the problem that does plague the fandom" have to be mutually exclusive? If anything I've seen both happen concurrently with rapid condemnations towards TK with reminders on being vigilante towards this behavior in the future, while at the same time trying to show a positive and hopeful light for the future.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that the brony community is better than other fandoms, but at the same time the community can learn from this. Those who TK counted as friends were hard on him; even as he tried to weasel out of it. That shows we can react when warranted. Honestly, no one here is saying that attention shouldn't be primarily on the victim. That's common sense and I would agree that we need to be mindful of the reality of predators being among us.

However that doesn't mean we need exclude a positive and hopeful message. Of course people will react differently according to their own notions and that's fine, but this "defending the fandom" and "being tough on the problem that does plague the fandom" really needs to be simmered.

[maverickBNA 42]

Why can't we both protect our friends and guests while still doing the right thing?

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

18 hours ago, Feather Scribbles said:

After hearing this, I am probably going to leave the fandom. I know that people like ToonKritic do not represent the MLP fandom, but his actions nonetheless absolutely sicken me.

No offense, but that's rather silly. There's always going to be horrible people who does this kind of shit, but you shouldn't stop liking things you like because of them. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, PathfinderCS said:

I think one perspective that is confusing me is why does "defending the fandom" and "being tough on the problem that does plague the fandom" have to be mutually exclusive? If anything I've seen both happen concurrently with rapid condemnations towards TK with reminders on being vigilante towards this behavior in the future, while at the same time trying to show a positive and hopeful light for the future.

Because the problem is the comments I've seen specifically DQs mention that this is a "rare" situation and the way he is going about it is more or less  shaming people for being afraid. He specifically says if you leave the fandom or think about leaving the fandom over this that you're uneducated, etc. That's simply not true. I'm sorry but if someone is afraid of sexual predators in this fandom they have the right to not only be afraid but have their fears not minimized as he was doing. Yes they might need to learn and understand that its not the most common thing in the world, but they do need to have their fears acknowledged especially in these times and the focus should be on easing their fears by taking swift action and promising to not allow this, not telling them they are wrong to be afraid or uneducated to be afraid or even suggest how rare or not rare this is.

The reality is this happens more than it should, period.

Sadly I have NOT seen what you are seeing which is that the two are not mutually exclusive, sadly we are seeing they ARE mutually exclusive to some people and they are treating them as mutually exclusive. There is harshness on the perp, but there is a serious lack of compassion for the victims if we are telling people they are uneducated, silly, stupid, etc. for being afraid.

Talk of protecting the fandom's image shouldn't even be HAPPENING right now. It should not even be a discussion that is going on so close to the actual incident before we have even caught the guy yet!

 

1 hour ago, Yamet said:

No offense, but that's rather silly. There's always going to be horrible people who does this kind of shit, but you shouldn't stop liking things you like because of them. 

Leaving the fandom is not the same as stopping the enjoyment of the show. You don't need to be in the fandom to enjoy the show.

 

This is what I'm talking about though, people more or less shaming people over this.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Guest
Fixed

[Dark Qiviut 22,464]

4 hours ago, Feather Scribbles said:

To respond to the last part of your sentence, you are being incredibly selfish. Do NOT go up and start defending the fandom. That should be the least of our concerns right now. I, for one, will most likely be leaving the fandom relatively soon due to people like ToonKriticY2K.

Actually, what you wrote here is much more selfish than Zetha's "One Bad Apple" motto. To repeat what I wrote from earlier:

19 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Doing this only lets people like Toon win, whether he goes to jail or not. Anyone who decides to use TK as the epitome of what a brony is needs to be educated of both the show and its fanbase. Don't let that fear of shame and embarrassment influence what you enjoy both in and out of the fandom.

"Defending/protecting the fandom" and "aggressively condemning terrible people within a fandom" aren't mutually exclusive, and way too many people — myself included — apply or have applied a false equivalency for them. It's possible to do both. Taking your ball and going home doesn't make people within the brony community safer. In fact, when good people leave because of what people like TK did, the brony fandom becomes less safe.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Defending/protecting the fandom" and "aggressively condemning terrible people within a fandom" aren't mutually exclusive, and way too many people — myself included — apply or have applied a false equivalency for them. It's possible to do both. Taking your ball and going home doesn't make people within the brony community safer. In fact, when good people leave because of what people like TK did, the brony fandom becomes less safe for the vulnerable.

 

Except you are downplaying it.

You are SHAMING people for being legitimately afraid!

You are doing it again right now even!

First you tried to downplay how common it was:

Quote

The trauma these girls experienced over the years at his hands and manipulation is beyond most of our imagination, and this scandal is very foreign territory in the brony fandom. 

Then you shame people for being afraid, calling them uneducated and more or less shaming them:

Quote

Doing this only lets people like Toon win, whether he goes to jail or not. Anyone who decides to use TK as the epitome of what a brony is needs to be educated of both the show and its fanbase. Don't let that fear of shame and embarrassment influence what you enjoy both in and out of the fandom.

 

And now you're reinforcing that shame:

Quote

Taking your ball and going home doesn't make people within the brony community safer. In fact, when good people leave because of what people like TK did, the brony fandom becomes less safe for the vulnerable.

 

You're basically telling them "shame on you for leaving! You are making the fandom less safe now!" you're acting like it's their responsibility to take action and make the fandom safer. You're blaming future incidents on them if they run out of fear. Did it ever occur to you that the people wanting to flee from the fandom have first-hand experience with sexual molestation or assault and that sticking around after this gets exposed is traumatizing to them? And here you are basically blaming them for the reduction of safety in the future if they run away to get away from that.

Have you stopped and thought that maybe what you're doing is counter-productive?

Has it occurred to you that shaming people for leaving the fandom is NOT productive?

You may not be doing it intentionally, but that is what you are saying translates to some. Stop and think about what you're saying for a minute. We are dealing with sexual assault here, that means that you need to be far more tactful in how you handle these things. You are so worried about the image of the fandom that you are being horribly insensitive about this. THAT is what I was getting at before.

We shouldn't even be talking about the image of the fandom at all, period. We should be talking EXCLUSIVELY about catching this guy, and helping the victims and what we will do to prevent it from happening, not trying to convince people how rare this is or tell people shame on you for leaving the fandom over this. That shouldn't even be a topic we're scratching. People will come to the fandom if they see how we take care of the victims and go after the predators, you don't need to tell them to stay. Do the right thing and they will do so when they see the compassion first hand.

Show the compassion that people keep claiming the fandom has and stop focusing any amount of attention on the image of the fandom.

Our top priority should be helping the victims and encouraging them to seek help if they want it and letting them know we are not going to let this happen on our watch.

Our second priority should be catching this guy.

Talk about the fandom's image or reputation shouldn't even be happening until we've accomplished those two things, PERIOD.

 

I now bring the discussion here:

If anyone on this site has been a victim of sexual assault and you need someone to talk to, I am here. I will listen. I can't promise I can make it better, but I will listen. There are people out there who want to help, and I give my word that I will NOT allow what someone like Toon has done to go unchecked. I will report it anytime I see it and pressure for action to be taken and justice to be served. You are not wrong to be afraid, you are not wrong to feel scared. You have every right to be angry, scared or upset. Please though give us the opportunity to help you. Don't hold your pain in, we want to help.

[Feather Scribbles 194]

24 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

Except you are downplaying it.

You are SHAMING people for being legitimately afraid!

You are doing it again right now even!

First you tried to downplay how common it was:

Then you shame people for being afraid, calling them uneducated and more or less shaming them:

And now you're reinforcing that shame:

You're basically telling them "shame on you for leaving! You are making the fandom less safe now!" you're acting like it's their responsibility to take action and make the fandom safer. You're blaming future incidents on them if they run out of fear. Did it ever occur to you that the people wanting to flee from the fandom have first-hand experience with sexual molestation or assault and that sticking around after this gets exposed is traumatizing to them? And here you are basically blaming them for the reduction of safety in the future if they run away to get away from that.

Have you stopped and thought that maybe what you're doing is counter-productive?

Has it occurred to you that shaming people for leaving the fandom is NOT productive?

You may not be doing it intentionally, but that is what you are saying translates to some. Stop and think about what you're saying for a minute. We are dealing with sexual assault here, that means that you need to be far more tactful in how you handle these things. You are so worried about the image of the fandom that you are being horribly insensitive about this. THAT is what I was getting at before.

We shouldn't even be talking about the image of the fandom at all, period. We should be talking EXCLUSIVELY about catching this guy, and helping the victims and what we will do to prevent it from happening, not trying to convince people how rare this is or tell people shame on you for leaving the fandom over this. That shouldn't even be a topic we're scratching. People will come to the fandom if they see how we take care of the victims and go after the predators, you don't need to tell them to stay. Do the right thing and they will do so when they see the compassion first hand.

Show the compassion that people keep claiming the fandom has and stop focusing any amount of attention on the image of the fandom.

Our top priority should be helping the victims and encouraging them to seek help if they want it and letting them know we are not going to let this happen on our watch.

Our second priority should be catching this guy.

Talk about the fandom's image or reputation shouldn't even be happening until we've accomplished those two things, PERIOD.

 

I now bring the discussion here:

If anyone on this site has been a victim of sexual assault and you need someone to talk to, I am here. I will listen. I can't promise I can make it better, but I will listen. There are people out there who want to help, and I give my word that I will NOT allow what someone like Toon has done to go unchecked. I will report it anytime I see it and pressure for action to be taken and justice to be served. You are not wrong to be afraid, you are not wrong to feel scared. You have every right to be angry, scared or upset. Please though give us the opportunity to help you. Don't hold your pain in, we want to help.

I was once a victim of sexual assault, but said person was banished relatively recently. I won't mention their name in order to prevent confrontation. That situation was already dealt with.

More will be added later, after I get back from work.

[Guest]

Just now, Feather Scribbles said:

I was once a victim of sexual assault, but said person was banished relatively recently. I won't mention their name in order to prevent confrontation. That situation was already dealt with.

More will be added later, after I get back from work.

I'm glad you found some sense of justice. I hope you're doing okay, and I hope the bravery you had in coming forward helps others to do the same so that they may find peace and justice. However if they do not wish to, that is okay because I recognize it's not always easy. I encourage people to do so as soon as possible, but you won't be shamed for not coming forward, but sadly it reduces the chances of justice being administered, however, I won't fault you for fear or embarrassment.

[Feather Scribbles 194]

17 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

I'm glad you found some sense of justice. I hope you're doing okay, and I hope the bravery you had in coming forward helps others to do the same so that they may find peace and justice. However if they do not wish to, that is okay because I recognize it's not always easy. I encourage people to do so as soon as possible, but you won't be shamed for not coming forward, but sadly it reduces the chances of justice being administered, however, I won't fault you for fear or embarrassment.

The person was banished. Their name was Scion. Apparently, I wasn't the only victim. I do not know the names of the (possibly dozens of) others.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Feather Scribbles

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

So for the past couple of pages all I've been seeing are about the Fandom. I have to be blunt, right now, who the fuck cares about the fandom? The Fandom or the reputation of the fandom should be far from everyone's mind. I don't know why people have to announce their "departure from the fandom" or have to "defend the fandom", this isn't about you, it's not about Dr Wolf's thoughts on the situation and it's not about the fandom. All this fandom really is, is a bunch of people who happen to like MLP, sometimes a bit too much. There's nothing special about it. Why are you guys even focusing on it? It doesn't matter, especially not at this moment. This is about an individual preying on a bunch of people and his victims. The questions you should all be asking right now is "Will he face justice?", "What can be done to help the victims of this guy?" and "What can be done to stop more people like him?". The fandom's reputation is irrelevant.

[Feather Scribbles 194]

I have been doing some thinking, and I immediately agree with The Coffee Pony.

What some people have to realize (I'm not pointing hooves at anyone here) is that just because you are part of this "fandom, does not mean that you enter a magical realm like the ponies exist in. We are all human. We are not a fandom, per say. (Even though that is the technical term.) Behind each screen of every person on this site and within the fandom as whole is a living, breathing human being. Thus, while this incident is truly disgusting, you shouldn't be too surprised. No fandom, no group, no site is safe from these kinds of people. Does that mean their behavior is acceptable? Absolutely not.

It is our duty to help comfort TK's victims, to let them know that any crimes (such as pedophilia) are will NOT be tolerated [anywhere], and to ensure that whenever a threat is detected or brought to light, to make sure that they face justice.

Asking crimes such as pedophilia to cease is like attempting to eradicate bullying: no, it will never stop, but we CAN and we WILL do everything within our power to keep this world safe.

If anyone is concerned about the reputation of this fandom, then I suggest you take a moment and think. If this "fandom" goes down in flames, then so be it. Our duty is not to preserve this "fandom" - but to ensure that every person here and everywhere is as happy and as safe as they can be. (Excluding criminals, such as TK.)

[ChB 18,562]

Why hasn't this guy been arrested, yet? He got reported about a week ago, and there's still no sign of arrest. Are the police even doing their jobs? I fear the safety of those who do not know him yet and could possibly become another victim. 

[Shrug 9,955]

52 minutes ago, ChB said:

Why hasn't this guy been arrested, yet? He got reported about a week ago, and there's still no sign of arrest. Are the police even doing their jobs? I fear the safety of those who do not know him yet and could possibly become another victim. 

My fears exactly. But to ease your mind a little, just remember that he has absolutely no chance of getting away with all the shit he has done. In terms of evidence, there are all the screenshots of the chats he had with that 14 year old girl as well as an entire call (posted on YouTube) where he admits several times that he is a pedophile. He will most certainly rot in jail like he deserves soon enough. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Captain Clark

[Feather Scribbles 194]

5 minutes ago, Captain Clark said:

My fears exactly. But to ease your mind a little, just remember that he has absolutely no chance of getting away with all the shit he has done. There are all the screenshots of his chats he had with that 14 year old girl as well as an entire call (posted on YouTube) where he admits several times that he is a pedophile. He will most certainly rot in jail like he deserves soon enough. 

For his sake (and I don't give a damn about him), he had better hope he doesn't get any roommates. Do you know what usually happens to pedophiles or people who have murdered children, and goes to prison? Well, many of the inmates have families, too... including children. He won't be very popular over there, that's for sure.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Feather Scribbles

[Lucid_Nightlight 928]

18 minutes ago, Feather Scribbles said:

For his sake (and I don't give a damn about him), he had better hope he doesn't get any roommates. Do you know what usually happens to pedophiles or people who have murdered children, and goes to prison? Well, many of the inmates have families, too... including children. He won't be very popular over there, that's for sure.

He will have to check into protective custody if he wants to walk out unscathed. Even then, protective custody is basically like solitary confinement and it's not exactly fun in there, but at least he won't be beaten or killed in prison.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Lucid_Nightlight

[Feather Scribbles 194]

Just now, Lucid_Nightlight said:

He will have to check into protective custody if he wants to walk out unscathed. Even then, protective custody is basically like solitary confinement and it's not exactly fun in there, but at least he won't be beaten or killed in prison.

Does he deserve to be beaten, however? Maybe, maybe not.

[Lucid_Nightlight 928]

9 minutes ago, Feather Scribbles said:

Does he deserve to be beaten, however? Maybe, maybe not.

I personally don't think about what he does or doesn't deserve, I simply acknowledge that it happened and that he was wrong and leave it at that.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Lucid_Nightlight

[Feather Scribbles 194]

But we have to do more than just acknowledge that it happened. Justice must be served, and we - you, me, and everyone else - must ensure that anything like this never happens again.

[Lucid_Nightlight 928]

1 minute ago, Feather Scribbles said:

But we have to do more than just acknowledge that it happened. Justice must be served, and we - you, me, and everyone else - must ensure that anything like this never happens again.

Justice is being served. He is already in the hands of the judicial system.

[Feather Scribbles 194]

Just now, Lucid_Nightlight said:

Justice is being served. He is already in the hands of the judicial system.

Justice will not be served until his fate has been put upon him, and his victims recover. (If they ever will.) As for TK, he is out of our hands, but not out of our minds.

[Lucid_Nightlight 928]

Just now, Feather Scribbles said:

Justice will not be served until his fate has been put upon him, and his victims recover. (If they ever will.) As for TK, he is out of our hands, but not out of our minds.

You're right about that, but we shouldn't let TK's actions consume us. Believe me, I hate what he did just as much as everyone else. The dude let down thousands of good people.

He had the ability to manipulate people and he abused that ability for his sick twisted desires. Manipulating people for bad reasons such as his is like survival mode. You may hold out for a while, but the horde will overwhelm you eventually.

The guy has messed up bad, but we must not let anger from this consume our every waking moment, it just isn't healthy for the mind.

[Feather Scribbles 194]

Nevertheless, we can learn from this. We have been directly exposed to what degradations can and do exist within this, and any, fandom. (And across the world as a whole.) We all now know that no matter how popular one person is, no matter how kind they are, that they are not the ultimate good. We are all human, and many kinds of people make up this Earth. This does not mean we now all turn on each other, oh no. We all must keep an open ear out, and all of us must do our part.

[Jonny Music 3,455]

I saw this coming from a mile away (meaning that this was no surprise to me) when I first encountered his content. I was not much of a fan of him anyway, as his content was not of my taste.

The red flag for me (and what caused me to stop wasting my time with him) was when he decided to use two separate personalities to give a clue as to say if he was trying to hide something (which made me suspicious about him from that point and made me stop caring about what he does). And what do you know, later on, he's committed crimes of pedophilia.

Not all fandoms are immune from sexual predators, unfortunately, hence why we need to be vigilant about our actions. Words (and ideas) are completely meaningless unless you actually do what you said you would. And Toon has shown that he has committed these crimes. He tries to say that he's for the fandom, yet his actions speak otherwise.

Lesson to learn from this, practice what you preach. If you don't, you'll be considered a fraud who has meaningless objectives (or none at all) in life and will never look forward positively to the future to make the world a better place.

[Elena 2]

God... they're everywhere. We should not however give one person so much power, that I agree with everyone. This is our Fandom. I'll be damned if a few disgusting creeps such as this manage to disperse one of the coolest fanbases that I've personally seen in a while. I refuse.