S08:E03 - The Maud Couple

[Sonic5421 423]

I have to admit, it was nice to see all four of the Pie sisters again in yesterday's new episode involving Maud having a boyfriend now. First time watching it though, I thought Pinkie may have been taking things a little too far with her worry about Maud and her boyfriend, to the point she nearly lost her sanity and went back to stay on the family rock farm.

However, thanks to a pep talk regarding geodes from Marble and Limestone, Pinkie is able to make amends with Maud and her boyfriend, we get a cameo from the Mane Six with the party at the end, and Pinkie is still best sisters forever with Maud, and is getting used to her boyfriend's outside appearance and manners.

I'll give this episode a 9/10 for my rating.

[FirePuppy 733]

I so cannot believe this. I was really hoping that Pinkie Pie was going to be the only member of the Mane Six to make any kind of appearance, but unfortunately, the brief cameos from the rest of the Mane Six ruined her chance of that.

Now it seems like she won't ever get such an episode like this, unlike how it was done last season with Once Upon a Zeppelin, Parental Glideance, Forever Filly, Where the Apple Lies, and yadda, yadda, yadda.

[gingerninja666 487]

Random moment I liked. Pinkie getting rid of the piniata both times without a fuss as soon as Mud made it clear he didn't like it.

[Dark Qiviut 22,379]

Just now, FirePuppy said:

I so cannot believe this. I was really hoping that Pinkie Pie was going to be the only member of the Mane Six to make any kind of appearance, but unfortunately, the brief cameos from the rest of the Mane Six ruined her chance of that.

…Uh, the ReMane Five never appeared other than the tail end of the episode. A five-second cameo isn't a big deal.

[FirePuppy 733]

Just now, Dark Qiviut said:

…Uh, the ReMane Five never appeared other than the tail end of the episode. A five-second cameo isn't a big deal.

But their visions did each have one speaking line in an earlier scene.

[Ganondox 899]

2 hours ago, Scootaloved said:

But see, it's that feeling of doing her a favor by correcting her that makes it condescending in the first place.

It's a very common tactic in arguments and explanations otherwise to pick on a specific piece of wording and not focusing on the gist of what the person is trying to convey - Mud did this throughout the entire episode, until the last act wherein he outright acknowledged her effort after correcting her on the fact it was not an olive branch (and this was the one time I was okay with him doing it). I have had countless a conversation in which a person picked out one word in what I was saying and didn't address anything else, and that was the feeling that Pinkie was having. It wasn't the fact he was correcting her, it was the fact he was correcting her and conveniently glossing over literally every-fucking-thing else she was trying to say. It dilutes the point of the conversation.

It's hard not to think of it as intentional, and in fact him acknowledging the rest of what she said later in that very same episode makes it even more likely there was intent there as he full well knew what she was trying to say. That's what I'm getting at here. It's not the correcting itself that bothers me, it's the way he goes about correcting. It's the context of the correcting.

If you want an apt comparison to this, think of YouTube arguments in which someone presents a thoughtful argument but happens to spell one word wrong in it, and the next person comments only correcting the spelling of the word and not responding at all to the actual rest of the comment.

That's not what is going on here though. It might come across as condescending to you, but that's because you're approaching it from a particular mindset that doesn't match Mud's. Thinking Maud doesn't know something doesn't mean he thinks he's smarter than her, just more knowledgeable in a particular area. I think what it really comes down to is you read into things, while Mud just takes things at face value, and as such your attempts at reading into Mud's behavior completely fail as he's not playing the same metagame that you are.

I know that tactic you are referring to, but Mud isn't doing that. The difference between being pedantic as a way to manipulate arguments and because the person is genuinely disturbed by the inaccuracies subtle, but important. The clearest way to tell the difference is the context, and by that I mean the broader context, not the immediate context which you focused on. First, Mud had no motive for trying to manipulate the argument and his attempts actually just hurt him, so construing it as a deliberate manipulation attempt doesn't make sense. On the other side, the episode clearly established how much he cares about precisions in language that most people don't care about before he actually engaged in any of that behavior. I think the reason you're getting the impression he was dismissing the other things Pinkie said was because for most the exchanges, Mud felt he didn't NEED to address them, as they were correct and he understood what she meant, so he could let them by without comment. You need to understand that Mud is approaching social interaction with fundamentally different beliefs than you do.  

Just because you come up with something that fits your model doesn't mean this fits your model. Just because someone is doing something similar on youtube to be a jerk doesn't mean that IRL someone might be doing something else for a very different reason. A thing isn't something else just because there is a superficial resemblance, you need to address all possible explanations and take the most likely one. It appears the abusive side is the only explanation you are familiar with as the more likely explanation is so alien to you, but it's not alien to me. I used to do the same crap as Mud back when I was around 12, before I realized how obnoxious other people found it for one, but more importantly how wrongly you interpret said behavior. I'm not just saying though because I sympathize with Mud as I used to empathize with him, but because in the context of the episode the more sympathetic interpretation is the only one that makes sense for the writers to employ. 

One last thing to add, Mud is supposed to come across as prick at first, as the audience is supposed to empathize with Pinkie Pie. At the same time, the episode tries to retroactively justify his behavior, so you can see where Pinkie Pie was in the wrong. Over time, the episode subtly but deliberately builds up details that show that Mud is more caring than he initially appears. It a way of illustrating the whole theme of the episode, that the superficial impressions of someone doesn't reflect who they really are. You're still approaching him as a rock rather than a geode, but that's understandable as it takes a lot of time and effort to understand people as they really are, especially someone much different from you, even if they are only fictional. 

31 minutes ago, FirePuppy said:

I so cannot believe this. I was really hoping that Pinkie Pie was going to be the only member of the Mane Six to make any kind of appearance, but unfortunately, the brief cameos from the rest of the Mane Six ruined her chance of that.

Now it seems like she won't ever get such an episode like this, unlike how it was done last season with Once Upon a Zeppelin, Parental Glideance, Forever Filly, Where the Apple Lies, and yadda, yadda, yadda.

Oh come on, are you really going to let brief cameos ruin your enjoyment of the episode? Do you actually take any pleasure in watching the show, or just in analyzing tables based on arbitrary criteria after the fact? It's not like a cameo is even a real appearance anyway. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Ganondox

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

While I wouldn't call this a favorite, I did enjoy it quite a bit. Mudbriar...sort of reminds me of myself at times...oh boy...XD

[Dark Qiviut 22,379]

1 hour ago, FirePuppy said:

But their visions did each have one speaking line in an earlier scene.

Those are still visions from Pinkie's own mind. They weren't actually there, so that doesn't count.

[FizzyGreen 909]

"Put your hooves together"

Hm... i remember the last time somebody said that... 

didn't work out so well

It's weird that they call it boyfriend. Okay, Coltfriend... ehhh i dunno.

 

Ok, interesting episode but pinkie was acting kinda... uh... unreasonable. Like i get the message but that was kinda... uhm... stop. The episode was aware of that by our smart Starlight Glimmer pointing it out! In that case it's all a "that's just pinkie".

Yeah, was pretty fun, i liked it! 5/5 because i can't really say that they messed up with the time OR that something was missing.

Edited April 2, 2018 by FizzyGreen

[Music Chart Fan 819]

On 3/31/2018 at 5:55 PM, ShootingStar159 said:

In the scene where Pinkie runs off crying, Mud Briar says “See you later,” which is interesting given his earlier conversation with Pinkie in the baking supply store. It means he wants to see her again later, which is pretty sweet.

As Mud himself would probably point out, he said earlier in the episode that "'See you later' implies an event in the near future wherein we see each other", whereas "'Goodbye' expresses good wishes where parting or at the end of a conversation". So, by Mud's own description, his saying "See you later" to Pinkie wouldn't necessarily mean that he wanted to see her again, but rather, that he expected to see her again in the near future. In fact, by his own description, his saying "Goodbye" would contain more positive sentiment than his saying "See you later". Given that, as well as his earlier refusal to "apologize for speaking with precision", I could see a reading of that scene with the opposite meaning - that Mud deliberately chose to use the phrase "See you later" with a neutral sentiment, rather than using the phrase "Goodbye" with a positive sentiment.

[Flightless-1 15]

Is it just me or does Pinkie pie come across as a bit arrogant and stupid? What I'm referring to is when she was acting like she knew everything about Maud. Most people could gather that she only agrees to go to parties is to make Pinkie happy. 

The way Pinkie was talking about and to Mud Brier was down right insensitive and rude. How could she not see how much Maud and Mud Brier had in common! Just arrogance on her part. 

As seasons go on I liked Pinkie then disliked her, then she shows more of her positives which makes me like her again then in one episode I go back to disliking her 

[gingerninja666 487]

1 hour ago, Music Chart Fan said:

As Mud himself would probably point out, he said earlier in the episode that "'See you later' implies an event in the near future wherein we see each other", whereas "'Goodbye' expresses good wishes where parting or at the end of a conversation". So, by Mud's own description, his saying "See you later" to Pinkie wouldn't necessarily mean that he wanted to see her again, but rather, that he expected to see her again in the near future. In fact, by his own description, his saying "Goodbye" would contain more positive sentiment than his saying "See you later". Given that, as well as his earlier refusal to "apologize for speaking with precision", I could see a reading of that scene with the opposite meaning - that Mud deliberately chose to use the phrase "See you later" with a neutral sentiment, rather than using the phrase "Goodbye" with a positive sentiment.

But see you later means he expected to see her again while goodbye wouldn't imply that. It felt more important to him to imply that he would be seeing Pinkie again despite what she's feeling right now (she ran off while expressing that maybe Maud doesn't need her anymore). Meaning he expected her to come back for her sister's party regardless. Presumably because he knows how much she does care about her.

 

edit: One of my friends just made me realize something.

Some people don't like how it's been "retconned" that Pinkie doesn't really understand Maud while she did in her first episode.

Actually, in a certain way I'm not sure she ever did.

 

Pinkie Pie: Try not to eat all the candy before you leave!

Twilight Sparkle: Are those all the necklaces Pinkie Pie sent you?

Maud Pie: Mm-hm.

Twilight Sparkle: You haven't eaten any of them?

Maud Pie: I don't really like candy. But I do love Pinkie Pie.

Edited April 2, 2018 by gingerninja666

[Xe__or 4,377]

God Pinkie made me cringe this whole episode

 

best episode review ever I know

[YoshiAngemon 223]

It makes me wonder, is Pinkie Pie even adopted, let alone related to the Pie family, or even the Apples?

[ggg-2 3,552]

*watches the beginning where Pinkie complains about how little time she's been getting to spend with Maud* And people wonder why I think SugarMac is a bad idea.

[gingerninja666 487]

1 hour ago, Gachin said:

God Pinkie made me cringe this whole episode

 

best episode review ever I know

I always find it interesting the range of reactions people have to episodes.

Some people think Pinkie is the only worthwhile thing in the episode. XD

[Jeric 46,850]

6 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

But see you later means he expected to see her again while goodbye wouldn't imply that. It felt more important to him to imply that he would be seeing Pinkie again despite what she's feeling right now (she ran off while expressing that maybe Maud doesn't need her anymore). Meaning he expected her to come back for her sister's party regardless. Presumably because he knows how much she does care about her.

 

edit: One of my friends just made me realize something.

Some people don't like how it's been "retconned" that Pinkie doesn't really understand Maud while she did in her first episode.

Actually, in a certain way I'm not sure she ever did.

 

Pinkie Pie: Try not to eat all the candy before you leave!

Twilight Sparkle: Are those all the necklaces Pinkie Pie sent you?

Maud Pie: Mm-hm.

Twilight Sparkle: You haven't eaten any of them?

Maud Pie: I don't really like candy. But I do love Pinkie Pie.

And Bingo was his name-o. Every Pinkie and Maud episode has one recurring major theme, and you nailed it. It's even more interesting when you realize that Pinkie professes to know Maud so well (yet always gets her wrong), and Maud quietly knows Pinkie far better than Pinkie knows Maud. 

[gingerninja666 487]

24 minutes ago, Jeric said:

And Bingo was his name-o. Every Pinkie and Maud episode has one recurring major theme, and you nailed it. It's even more interesting when you realize that Pinkie professes to know Maud so well (yet always gets her wrong), and Maud quietly knows Pinkie far better than Pinkie knows Maud. 

It honestly just feeds into my belief that at this point viewers don't REALLY want the cast to be in the wrong in episodes anymore. It's why I'm ok with more focus on side characters. One of the best recieved episodes of season 7 was the Zepplin one. The episode where Twilight's 'problem' was that she was too nice and selfless.

After so many years of needing to learn morals, there's an expectation that the cast should be "Better than that". This happened for AJ as early as season 3.

Edited April 2, 2018 by gingerninja666

[Jeric 46,850]

30 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

It honestly just feeds into my belief that at this point viewers don't REALLY want the cast to be in the wrong in episodes anymore. It's why I'm ok with more focus on side characters. One of the best recieved episodes of season 7 was the Zepplin one. The episode where Twilight's 'problem' was that she was too nice and selfless.

After so many years of needing to learn morals, there's an expectation that the cast should be "Better than that". This happened for AJ as early as season 3.

I agree. It is the inherent opposition of storytelling. Relatability vs. Inspirational. Some prefer relatable characters, while others want characters that they can aspire to grow into. That last one feels  like relatability, but it isn't. It also is as fantastical as talking purple magical ponies. In the real world, decent people consistently make poor judgement calls and mistakes, especially ones where we repeat. In the real world we won't see that we are making said mistake, but curiously we would be able to identify the mistake in a friend or family member and easily intervene. 

Pinkie was too close to the situation emotionally to see some of her errors here. But in a situation where the investment was less personal, she would have likely reacted differently. 

For me it's one of the better elements of this show, for others it is a flaw of the show. I'll selfishly say this ... as long as I get what I want from this show, I couldn't care less that people complain about what I like ... because I'm getting what I want. 

[Prometheus 3,038]

I can't be the only one who saw this, right? I know it's definitely a coincidence, but the mere thought of them designing a character based off this guy is both messed up and yet absolutely hilarious for all the wrong reasons. 

[Thrond 3,263]

9 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

Some people don't like how it's been "retconned" that Pinkie doesn't really understand Maud while she did in her first episode.

Actually, in a certain way I'm not sure she ever did.

 

Pinkie Pie: Try not to eat all the candy before you leave!

Twilight Sparkle: Are those all the necklaces Pinkie Pie sent you?

Maud Pie: Mm-hm.

Twilight Sparkle: You haven't eaten any of them?

Maud Pie: I don't really like candy. But I do love Pinkie Pie.

And, y'know, both of them seem fine with it, so maybe I'm reading way too much into this. Still, I wonder if Pinkie should behave differently so Maud feels more comfortable expressing her own preferences. Perhaps that's not entirely separate from this episode's moral, though... hmm. 

17 minutes ago, SnakeEater said:

I can't be the only one who saw this, right? I know it's definitely a coincidence, but the mere thought of them designing a character based off this guy is both messed up and yet absolutely hilarious for all the wrong reasons. 

Ehh, not an uncommon hair style, so this probably isn't the case. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,379]

1 hour ago, gingerninja666 said:

It honestly just feeds into my belief that at this point viewers don't REALLY want the cast to be in the wrong in episodes anymore. It's why I'm ok with more focus on side characters. One of the best recieved episodes of season 7 was the Zepplin one. The episode where Twilight's 'problem' was that she was too nice and selfless.

After so many years of needing to learn morals, there's an expectation that the cast should be "Better than that". This happened for AJ as early as season 3.

A few things to point out:

1. It's not about viewers seeing the RM7 in the wrong anymore. It's about being in the wrong and have it make sense. Zeppelin was a multi-layered conflict that didn't paint either side entirely in the right or in the wrong. Until after Twilight missed the Northern Stars, she wasn't written in the wrong, and the script empathized with her. Only when she yelled at her family and feigned her apology for stepping on Star Tracker's hoof was she written in the wrong.
   
   Other episodes write the characters in the wrong more entirely, but also understand where they're coming from. Fluttershy's aggressive, nonstop action to finding the cure for Zecora's swamp fever was written in the wrong, because she sacrificed her health to save Zecora, thus putting both of their lives in danger. But her behavior was understandable, and the episode makes sure we don't forget that.
   
   To go back to Maud Couple, Pinkie was written in the wrong throughout, when the episode gives the audience two reasons to justify her behavior. Firstly, she justifiably panicked and nearly melted down after Maud stood her up the following morning and left her no trace of her whereabouts. Secondly, Pinkie had a really terrible first impression of Mudbriar at the bakery; when Mudbriar took a lot of time determining whether to say "goodbye" or "see you later," and it only escalated when he kept repeating the same lines (because he has that tick of being accurate) after Pinkie continued to reintroduce herself.
   
   When you have Maud go missing and then Mudbriar confirmed to be her coltfriend (when she grew to dislike him) minutes later, she gets a negative impression that Mudbriar is trying to manipulate her, leading her to become very protective of Maud. Mudbriar being very flat in his debut (when Maud accomplished a hundred times more in "Maud Pie") doesn't help, either.
    
2. Your earlier comparison with What About Discord? has problems. The episode paints Twilight as very jealous of Discord and continues to accuse her of such. Unfortunately, Twilight is absolutely justified to feel left out and not trust Discord. While Discord's relations improved with the Mane Six over time, he still uses his chaos to play jokes and games, and his emotions are still very fragile. Also, Twilight still doesn't truly like and trust him, because he manipulated her to her breaking point in Return of Harmony, and that distrust never disappeared. She reacted the way she did, because she was believably worried that Discord was using them to keep her out of the loop. Discord admitting at the end to intentionally leaving her out to toy with her completely destroyed the phony "jealousy" angle the episode worked so hard to build on and put Twilight completely in the right.
   
   What TMC did that WAD? failed is show Pinkie to be in the wrong better by having both Maud and Mud flirt with each other in front of her. Their communication was relaxed, not taken too seriously, and created chemistry between them to us. It confirms they like each other without being forced and tells us that Pinkie's poor first impression of him's clouding her judgment.

[Thrond 3,263]

1 minute ago, Dark Qiviut said:

It's not about viewers seeing the RM7 in the wrong anymore. It's about being in the wrong and have it make sense. Zeppelin was a multi-layered conflict that didn't paint either side entirely in the right or in the wrong. Until after Twilight missed the Northern Stars, she wasn't written in the wrong, and the script empathized with her. Only when she yelled at her family and feigned her apology for stepping on Star Tracker's hoof was she written in the wrong.

Perhaps this was me projecting, but I felt she was pretty clearly in the wrong for reasons other than snapping at her family; clearly she was making herself unhappy for something which she never signed up for, and which her family surely wouldn't want to come at her expense. It was indeed very nuanced, however, and relatively ambiguous until near the climax, but you could see her displeasure building. 

3 hours ago, Jeric said:

I agree. It is the inherent opposition of storytelling. Relatability vs. Inspirational. Some prefer relatable characters, while others want characters that they can aspire to grow into. That last one feels  like relatability, but it isn't. It also is as fantastical as talking purple magical ponies. In the real world, decent people consistently make poor judgement calls and mistakes, especially ones where we repeat. In the real world we won't see that we are making said mistake, but curiously we would be able to identify the mistake in a friend or family member and easily intervene. 

Pinkie was too close to the situation emotionally to see some of her errors here. But in a situation where the investment was less personal, she would have likely reacted differently. 

For me it's one of the better elements of this show, for others it is a flaw of the show. I'll selfishly say this ... as long as I get what I want from this show, I couldn't care less that people complain about what I like ... because I'm getting what I want. 

I can't really pin down anything which separates Pinkie's extreme reaction here to that in, say, "Party of One," which I adore. I would say there's a little more evidence for her to misinterpret in the earlier episode, but it probably has a lot to do with me simply relating more to the subject matter, which is entirely on me. 

[Sparklefan1234 169,731]

On 4/1/2018 at 4:45 AM, Totally Lyra said:

Not gonna lie, this is the most I've cringed at an episode since I started the series. I'd give it a solid 1/10, only above 0 because it had a good Lyra scene in the first minute.

That was my favorite part of Maud Couple, too. 

Also, I don't think this is the most I've cringed at an episode but I did feel like this "" while watching the episode. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Sparklefan1234

[NathanW200 306]

Hopefully Maud getting a boyfriend will encourage Pinkie Pie to get a boyfriend too Cheese Sandwich would be a good match for Pinkie Pie If Hasbro ever takes that into effect

I Hope Pinkie Pie doesn't get jealous of Maud getting a boyfriend knowing Pinkie Pie is still single

Edited April 3, 2018 by NathanW200