Tulpa Discussion Thread V1.2

[Mindrop 412]

Okay, thanks. I have 22, and I feel their enough.

[Guest]

Slightly worried I am not forcing long enough, finished my second session last night at 3 in the morning. Two sessions so far, both 50 minutes, covering three traits each with about 15 minutes a trait.

[Captain Nemo 164]

Sounds good to me. That's pretty much what I do for each session. I review the traits we've already gone over, talk to her a bit, and then get usually three traits done (sometimes 2 or 4, depending on the complexity). Takes a full hour. We do two forcing sessions a day.

[Fede 10]

Jesus, you yogurt cannons. Just passive force. No need for all this reviewing of traits and counting hours.

 

Proceed to get thrown in the Clink and politely ask for long-term solitary confinement, in which you may force your tupper into existence. You'll acquire experience of how wonderfully splendid this practice can be.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Fede-lasse
We can do without the insults.

[Mindrop 412]

Okay, well, I got my sylibi's for my classes. I won't be starting my Tulpa until after august 9th. WAY to much reading. That's what I get for 3 classes over a 4 week term.

[Nordica 180]

Just reached 100 hours of tulpaforcing now. A couple of more and I've forced more than I've played Skyrim

[Senor Citizen 516]

But... but... but...

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEMEicS3MfY

 

I weathered the hit to my sanity like a boss. Slept fine last night. Listened to the whole thing.

[Espeon 338]

Holla holla be 413th reply

 

Tulpae seem like some freaky stuff. Harmless enough, even beneficial as a being that literally is your subconscious. There are some weird implications, though, even some that haven't been explored in all 21 previous pages of this thread.

 

First: Tulpae know everything you know, both consciously and subconsciously. This means that a tulpa would be capable of telling you the correct answer to every question on, for example, a math test (should you have previously been taught the general process). This wouldn't be logically considered cheating, given that a tulpa is basically you, but imagine you are an average student because you are lazy. Suddenly, you effortlessly answer every question correctly. I don't know about any of you, but if I were to observe that, I'd be pretty dang suspicious. Would the aforementioned scenario ever happen, and if so, what could possibly become of that?

 

Second: (this has been brought up, but I don't think it was acknowledged) Tulpae are "advertised," you might say, as being fully autonomous, sentient beings that only you can perceive. They are also a metaphysical embodiment of your subconscious. How autonomous can it be if it is a product of your own mind? It only exists there, so how can it possibly be totally independent and free of your control?

 

I'm just curious about those. As for myself, I'm gonna experiment with lucid dreaming before (if) I ever make a tulpa. It sounds cool and all, but it gets weird if you think about it for a while. It's also a ton of time to commit to something that I'm not even sure I'll want in the first place, let alone years down the road. This thread and tulpa.info were interesting reads, to say the least. I wouldn't quite say I'm a skeptic, since the human brain is pretty awesome, but I'm not too willing to believe that there aren't any strings attached. Also, it sounds like some people in this thread got aneurysms or something, but maybe that's just me imagining it?

 

EDIT: Another thing I was wondering about: if tulpae can't interact with the physical world, then how can they stand on ground as if it is solid?

Edited July 13, 2012 by BowlArt64

[Captain Nemo 164]

1. That would be pretty suspicious. If one were to do that (and you shouldn't make a tulpa solely for the purpose of helping you with stuff - they wouldn't be happy with their existence), they would have to gradually "become better" at math to avoid rousing suspicion. Don't start getting everything right all of a sudden; do it slowly.

 

2. The reason their actions are alien to us is because they are basically an embodiment of our subconsciousness. Our conscious mind does not know what our subconscious is doing, so anything that originates from it will seem to be a separate thing. So while a tulpa is part of you and runs on your brain, it seems independent because your subconscious is independent from your conscious.

 

3. They can stand on things because your brain knows there is an object there, and puts your tulpa on top of it. It's like anything else - if you look at a parking lot, you don't expect the cars to fall through it. So why would your tulpa?

 

Any more questions? I love answering them. :3

[Smokin'HotRarity 182]

Nemo: One sees the cards for a second or two. That's enough for one's subconscious mind construct to utilize the short-term memory to recall all the cards. Theoretically. Take not my words for how well Celestia handles this task.

 

Raspberry: What you need to "work" on first is the personality. This is an important step. Just define about ten traits or so and describe how they affect the tupper. Don't be too over-detailed. Just make a simple list. When that's down, you can try going about the passive forcing + parroting way that I described in an earlier post on this page. Or, you can go to tulpa.info, read a ton of guides, get confused because their methods are old and outdated, craft your own method, go through many hours of experimentation, and so forth.

 

lol i mean cover them with your hands and walk to the other room without looking at them xD

[Twiliscael 3,960]

1. That would be pretty suspicious. If one were to do that (and you shouldn't make a tulpa solely for the purpose of helping you with stuff - they wouldn't be happy with their existence), they would have to gradually "become better" at math to avoid rousing suspicion. Don't start getting everything right all of a sudden; do it slowly.

 

2. The reason their actions are alien to us is because they are basically an embodiment of our subconsciousness. Our conscious mind does not know what our subconscious is doing, so anything that originates from it will seem to be a separate thing. So while a tulpa is part of you and runs on your brain, it seems independent because your subconscious is independent from your conscious.

 

3. They can stand on things because your brain knows there is an object there, and puts your tulpa on top of it. It's like anything else - if you look at a parking lot, you don't expect the cars to fall through it. So why would your tulpa?

 

Any more questions? I love answering them. :3

 

Right on the money, there. Helps me not have to type so much and for that I thank you.

[Espeon 338]

1. That would be pretty suspicious. If one were to do that (and you shouldn't make a tulpa solely for the purpose of helping you with stuff - they wouldn't be happy with their existence), they would have to gradually "become better" at math to avoid rousing suspicion. Don't start getting everything right all of a sudden; do it slowly.

 

2. The reason their actions are alien to us is because they are basically an embodiment of our subconsciousness. Our conscious mind does not know what our subconscious is doing, so anything that originates from it will seem to be a separate thing. So while a tulpa is part of you and runs on your brain, it seems independent because your subconscious is independent from your conscious.

 

3. They can stand on things because your brain knows there is an object there, and puts your tulpa on top of it. It's like anything else - if you look at a parking lot, you don't expect the cars to fall through it. So why would your tulpa?

 

Any more questions? I love answering them. :3

 

1. That makes sense, I suppose, not that that was an intention I had. It's more an ethical scenario vs. possible consequences, as well as validating that it's possible.

 

2. A'ight

 

3. Your brain also knows there are people there when a tulpa phases through them, as well as walls etc. I don't see how the ground is any different. Your brain should be logically opposed to seeing one thing noclip through another, and I've heard that tulpae are capable of doing that sometimes. Why not all the time? Regarding the cars situation, the cars are actually there. The electrons on the outside of the cars are actually exerting an electromagnetic force against those of the ground, preventing them from passing through the parking lot into the ground. Tulpae are only in your mind, and as such exert no such force. The brain is also accustomed to gravity, so it makes sense that the projected tulpa would be affected by it and therefore pulled towards the earth. I know it just makes sense that they don't fall through the ground and that they do noclip through people, but I like questioning things and why they work the way they do. My logic is probably either faulty or http://tvtropes.org/...nsaneTrollLogic at this point because I've overthunk it too much.

Edited July 14, 2012 by BowlArt64

[Mindrop 412]

Yeah, from what I understand, they help if they want to. I will admit, I want mine to be as interested in learning as me. Then possible we could get some good Anthropological debates going.

 

Hehehe, that sounds funny debating myself that I created.

[Captain Nemo 164]

Bowl - The car analogy was used to bring up the idea of expectations. You don't expect cars to fall through the ground. Your brain knows it's solid, so it'll keep your tulpa from going through it.

 

Also, almost every tulpa I know doesn't like phasing through people or walls. If a tulpa is sitting in a chair and somebody goes to sit in it, they'll usually move. They use doors, too, from what I hear. While it is, of course, possible for them to phase through stuff, most don't.

 

And besides, who says it has to be all or nothing? Your tulpa could phase through walls but not the ground if they wanted. They can be selective if they like.

[Smokin'HotRarity 182]

Bowl - The car analogy was used to bring up the idea of expectations. You don't expect cars to fall through the ground. Your brain knows it's solid, so it'll keep your tulpa from going through it.

 

Also, almost every tulpa I know doesn't like phasing through people or walls. If a tulpa is sitting in a chair and somebody goes to sit in it, they'll usually move. They use doors, too, from what I hear. While it is, of course, possible for them to phase through stuff, most don't.

 

And besides, who says it has to be all or nothing? Your tulpa could phase through walls but not the ground if they wanted. They can be selective if they like.

 

lol what if they are really fast xD and dont have time to be move do they sink through the couch xD

[Captain Nemo 164]

Then the person will just go through them. It's not that big a deal, but it's generally uncomfortable for the tulpa.

[Fede 10]

Don't generalize, Nemo; some tuppers don't give a shit, and some do. Mine teleport and walk through stuff without being bothered at all by it, though I prefer that they traverse the world like other physical beings.

[Shaster 7]

This is quite a strange concept. Hypothetically speaking, would it be easier to achieve this effect while using psychotomimetics?

[Smokin'HotRarity 182]

This is quite a strange concept. Hypothetically speaking, would it be easier to achieve this effect while using psychotomimetics?

 

meh, mariujana never caused me to hallucinate or create skitzophrenia, although the withdrawals gave me worry attacks. Edited July 15, 2012 by glitterlicious

[I used to be a stranger 7,993]

My concern of my (vague) understanding of the concept of Tulpas is thus:

 

Tulpas may wish to exact a better behavior from an individual but to this end they will not argue or altercate the motivations of it's host. This makes them entirely dependent on the morality and ethics of the host and therefore not equatable to an independent personality; only a reflection applied to essentially the equivalent of an imaginary pet. That may be all well and good, but I'm one of those unfortunate sods who applies metaphysics to everything and therefore rejects a lot of things that people consider "fun", so feel free to shrug off my objection.

 

Case of example:

You are a person who 'clops' to ponies (bear with me) and the tulpa you've created, by a remarkable feat of the imagination is so developed that it's willing to take a contrary opinion to something you do, such as not only being against 'clopping', but asks you to stop as well.

Because the tulpa requires conscious and cogniscent effort to exist, this means it is unlikely to be a strong enough rational or emotional motivator to actually prevent you from 'clopping'. This means that you extremely likely won't actually stop 'clopping', despite the wishes of your Tulpa. This causes a recursive subconscious feedback loop of guilt and failure, which would be very unhealthy.

 

A Tulpa that was characterized enough to actually be equivalent to a real-world relationship would be extremely hard to accomplish and would require more than mental effort to take into account it's ramifications.

 

Correct me if that's not a point that should be made considering Tulpas; because I don't really see the point behind why one would want one.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Blue

[Mindrop 412]

My concern of my (vague) understanding of the concept of Tulpas is thus:

 

Tulpas may wish to exact a better behavior from an individual but to this end they will not argue or altercate the motivations of it's host. This makes them entirely dependent on the morality and ethics of the host and therefore not equatable to an independent personality; only a reflection applied to essentially the equivalent of an imaginary pet. That may be all well and good, but I'm one of those unfortunate sods who applies metaphysics to everything and therefore rejects a lot of things that people consider "fun", so feel free to shrug off my objection.

 

Case of example:

You are a person who 'clops' to ponies (bear with me) and the tulpa you've created, by a remarkable feat of the imagination is so developed that it's willing to take a contrary opinion to something you do, such as not only being against 'clopping', but asks you to stop as well.

Because the tulpa requires conscious and cogniscent effort to exist, this means it is unlikely to be a strong enough rational or emotional motivator to actually prevent you from 'clopping'. This means that you extremely likely won't actually stop 'clopping', despite the wishes of your Tulpa. This causes a recursive subconscious feedback loop of guilt and failure, which would be very unhealthy.

 

A Tulpa that was characterized enough to actually be equivalent to a real-world relationship would be extremely hard to accomplish and would require more than mental effort to take into account it's ramifications.

 

Correct me if that's not a point that should be made considering Tulpas; because I don't really see the point behind why one would want one.

 

Your right. Basically, a Tulpa projects your subconscious in a way you can interact with you. So if you "clop" and your Tulpa is against "Clopping" yes, guilt and failure will build up. But remember, its your subconscious, so its already telling you "clopping" is bad, you can just ignore it because you have not directed it enough to begin to open up your subconscious. So, not really a problem because you already being told clopping is bad by your subconscious.

 

The point of having one for me (alright, I have not started, no time right now to put the effort in. Even an hour a day) is 1: the discipline it takes to create. 2: To tap into my subconscious to better understand myself. 3: This will help my writing since character creation and development are not my strong suit. 4:Tapping into your subconscious can help you be better aware of things and recall memories.

[Captain Nemo 164]

In contrast to your first point, Blue, most tulpa do have different moralities than their creator. I've seen some that are Christian, even, though their creator is atheist. While many will probably draw inspiration from their creator's beliefs and moralities, many also deviate and choose their own way of thinking about things.

 

Regarding clopping/fapping - from what I hear, most tulpa hardly care what their creator faps to. There may be some that disagree, and I would imagine that might create some unpleasantness between the creator and the tulpa, but I think it can be worked through.

 

"A Tulpa that was characterized enough to actually be equivalent to a real-world relationship would be extremely hard to accomplish and would require more than mental effort to take into account it's ramifications."

I've seen this point brought up before. And yes, like you said, it is impossible to, on your own, create a full personality that takes into account all different kinds of situations. However, there is a point in tulpa creation when the tulpa becomes out of your range of control, and will start to develop its personality on its own.

Also, every person I know of that has a fully finished tulpa says that it does seem like a completely independent person with a mind of its own. Might I direct you to tulpa.info's FAQ page? Perhaps that can answer some questions as well.

[PonyEcho 1,610]

honestly iv never seen the point in Tulpas, because i had a friend who forced a hallucination for a Tulpa and he had a compleate mental breakdown.

the only thing i can see that good about tulpas is that it is a rely good insite on the persons personality and desires

[Guest]

Well, I would post my story so far here in text form, but it would be quite large for one post. With that said, I give you the link to my journal: http://tulpa.info/forums/Thread-The-Chronicles-of-Nevermore

 

This process is still ongoing, and it has had hard times, but through it all I have truly come to appreciate her. She is so full of life and laughter.

 

Arya started really speaking today, with special help from Chigens and his tulpa, and honestly I couldn't be happier!

So a big thank you to them!

[Chigens and Kay 3,832]

Arya started really speaking today, with special help from Chigens and his tulpa, and honestly I couldn't be happier!

So a big thank you to them!

 

I do take brohooves.

 

Mayhap I should update my our progress then.

 

My Tulpa started speaking a few days ago, which is awesome. We are still working on visualization because I suck at it, but it don't matter so much now. She is changing and developing at a very nice pace. Progress is good and shows no signs of slowing down. We're gonna' use this momentum to try and impose her as soon as possible since she doesn't like not having a body.