S09:E17 - The Summer Sun Setback

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

47 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

That's a tad inaccurate. In The Beginning of the End, Twilight is faced with:

- Being chosen to take over Equestria after the royal sisters.

- Her family being attacked by Sombra

- The Tree of Harmony being destroyed 

- Her neighbors and  loved ones being brainwashed.

In Between Dark and Dawn, she's essentially doing a test drive and naturally is nervous and makes rookie mistakes because it's basically her first time.

Come The Summer Sun Setback, where she's now had practice and past experience to prepare her and now she's found her footing.

Moreover, most of the story arcs in the show are fairly loose and mixed here and there with the SoL stories.

Well, she also freaks out over a town's quiz event. (which makes those more urgent freakouts feel less important, which is another problem) Those events you mentioned could traumatize any person, any character I know of course. But sometimes Twilight just freaks out about little things. Even the show knows that we expect her to obviously freak out in this episode.

(She contained herself pretty well when Celestia was kidnapped when she was the sole ruler of Equestria, The Elements of Harmony seemed completely shattered, when they didn't work, when all her friends turned their back on her, when Celestia was defeated by Chrysalis, when her brother was brainwashed, lost powers etc,..... there are plenty of examples that she did well under pressure. Twilight freaking out was pretty unnecessary in lots of occasions.)

And also, I thought she could handle princess duties pretty well by then in Between the Dark and Dawn. That's not that super crazy stuff like defeating Tirek, it was a ceremony, and she did it many times. She already was practicing for a long time. If Twilight was ever going to replace Celestia, it should have been told earlier.

If she was even able to fix herself, she would have done it way earlier. At least she would have become slowly better and better. (and just a small thing, why does she keep forgetting how to properly blow inside the paper bag?)

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

Okay, now you're just being a contrarian.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Amazing episode, vogel is a god.

Anyone else think this episode hinted that discord knows about Grogar and the villains at the end there?

Edited August 24, 2019 by Drunkfrank

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

1 hour ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Why is it a problem that they didn't want her to stress about the event? This sounds more like a case of you complaining because it wasn't the way you wanted it to be.

It would have been better if I could see their side of the story in a more sympathetic way and it was dealt with some more weight to it. There were many times that they were hiding the problem and made it bigger. You know they made a wrong decision and why it is wrong. At least this is on of the better episodes.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

Just now, Sepul-Coloratura said:

It would have been better if I could see their side of the story in a more sympathetic way and it was dealt with some more weight to it. There were many times that they were hiding the problem and made it bigger. You know they made a wrong decision and why it is wrong. At least this is on of the better episodes.

They didn't. That's just your opinion (of which you're in the minority).

[JH24 385]

9 minutes ago, Drunkfrank said:

Amazing episode, vogel is a god.

Anyone else think this episodev hinted that discord knows about Grogar abs the villains at the end there?

I got the same feeling. In his own way, Discord has been coaching Twilight since the start of season 4. I found it funny how he played along with the Mane 6 in trying to hide the chaos outside. One part of him enjoys seeing Twilight stressing out, but the other half seems to be sincerely proud when she succeeds in overcoming her flaws.

Edited August 24, 2019 by JH24

[YoshiAngemon 223]

I missed the episode due to a trip to Castle Island I ended up taking.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

1 hour ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

@Sepul-Coloratura She DIDN'T suddenly overcome her  her flaws. We've seen her struggle to get the hang of things initially and now she's found her footing. 

She's been doing that for a long time without a progress between episodes, the only exception is Cadence teaching her how to breathe and calm down. (and that's been rolled back.) This is the first time in several seasons that she actually shown progress of this matter, and it's a huge step up.

[Rushing cash 836]

16 minutes ago, Drunkfrank said:

Amazing episode, vogel is a god.

Anyone else think this episodev hinted that discord knows about Grogar abs the villains at the end there?

He probably does. And shouldn't he feel it when tirek consumes magic or something? Or is it only when he is aware of it in the first place? 

 

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

2 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

She's been doing that for a long time without a progress between episodes, the only exception is Cadence teaching her how to breathe and calm down. (and that's been rolled back.) This is the first time in several seasons that she actually shown progress of this matter, and it's a huge step up.

That's when she became a Princess, not when she became next in line to rule. Quite a step up in responsibilities and things to stress over.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

14 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

They didn't. That's just your opinion (of which you're in the minority).

You mean the Mane Six didn't have incidents of making things worse by hiding the problem, or do you mean that they didn't make a wrong decision? I'm not clear about what you mean.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

Just now, Sepul-Coloratura said:

You mean the Mane Six didn't have incidents of making things worse by hiding the problem, or do you mean that they didn't make a wrong decision? I'm not clear about what you mean.

Your opinion that it was a mistake on the part of the episode. Also, given Twilight's tendency to stress easily, it's not hard to see why they tried to hid it from her since she already has enough on her plate.

[Lord Valtasar 12,690]

oh yes, all the yes, a great episode, i loved Twilight in this one and discord was flawless as always, and i'm very excited by the mischievous triad and their build up aswel, they turned from evil characters to grumpy-but-goodish and all their interactions are priceless now. i have to admit i wasn't a big fan of Cozy last season because they never gave her a backstory, but she was the catalyst for something great and she has won me over, i'd still like a backstory but not to the point that it's a dealbreaker

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

2 minutes ago, Lord Valtasar said:

oh yes, all the yes, a great episode, i loved Twilight in this one and discord was flawless as always, and i'm very excited by the mischievous triad and their build up aswel, they turned from evil characters to grumpy-but-goodish and all their interactions are priceless now. i have to admit i wasn't a big fan of Cozy last season because they never gave her a backstory, but she was the catalyst for something great and she has won me over, i'd still like a backstory but not to the point that it's a dealbreaker

Does she need one at this point beyond "she's crazy"?

[Lord Valtasar 12,690]

3 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Does she need one at this point beyond "she's crazy"?

she really does, no one is "just crazy" without a reason, not to this level, she's not crazy exactly, she's very smart, and knows her way around some pretty tought teritory, and her being just a filly doesn't leave much room for it to have been slowly built

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

10 minutes ago, Lord Valtasar said:

she really does, no one is "just crazy" without a reason, not to this level, she's not crazy exactly, she's very smart, and knows her way around some pretty tough territory, and her being just a filly doesn't leave much room for it to have been slowly built

Okay, how about she's crazy and she's smart? Sometimes less is more.

[Lord Valtasar 12,690]

1 minute ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Okay, how about she's crazy and she's smart? Sometimes less is more.

she is what she is, and i have no complains, i'd just like to know the why

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

39 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

That's when she became a Princess, not when she became next in line to rule. Quite a step up in responsibilities and things to stress over.

She was Twilighting roughly since season 4 or even earlier. She was told to rule Equestria in season 9. So she's been stressing out when she was just a princess and and she didn't show progress then (season 4-8) and she showed progress at this episode since she was told to be the next ruler of Equestria even when it is a bigger stress than before. I get that she had bigger reasons to freak out this time, but doesn't that make it even harder to overcome than before? I'm just asking since we are digging into more specific things. It doesn't make sense if compared to past episodes.

36 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Your opinion that it was a mistake on the part of the episode. Also, given Twilight's tendency to stress easily, it's not hard to see why they tried to hid it from her since she already has enough on her plate.

If Twilight was in charge of everything, they should have reported to her. If she can't handle it, she isn't worthy of being in charge. She has to learn how to deal with it, at least she has been in a position for a long time that she has to do it. And both practically and morally, lying isn't any good. They could have fixed the problem faster if they told her. And them trying not to tell because of Twilight's past tendency makes sense, but it makes sense for wrong reasons That's why I think this episode by itself isn't a problem, but when it's with other episodes it is.There is a reason for them doing it, but it is still a wrong decision.

More importantly, in the end of the episode, it clearly shows that they didn't need to lie to Twilight.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Sepul-Coloratura

[Ganondorf8 11,288]

And here I thought the villains had been completely forgotten about in favour of slice of life. When you think about it, working together has allowed Chrysalis, Lord Tirek, and Cozy Glow the opportunity to progress their own agenda without any part of it failing which had been the case when they all worked solo. Granted, villain alliances almost always fail due to them being unable to maintain said alliance. I expect these three will turn on each other soon enough or end up being punished by Grogar assuming he already knows what they are doing behind his back.

Frenemies did a much better job with the villains seeing as the episode was dedicated entirely to them, but this episode gave them more development along with the notion of them working together. I was actually expecting them to take advantage of Discord but that didn't even become an issue. On the subject of Twilight having improved from her freak out moments, I'll admit it comes across as having happened a bit too quickly, but then we don't have many episodes left so it's passable at best. I'm still surprised that no one has suspected the villains are even doing anything. You'd think someone would've checked up on Tartarus at least.

Aside from that, this was a solid episode that was much better than the previous two we've had. Lastly, do I detect a hint of foreshadowing with what was said about having the tribes turn on one another? If so, this could prove most interesting if done correctly.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

1 minute ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

at the end of the episode, it clearly shows that they didn't need to lie to Twilight.

They didn't know that at the time. 

Just now, Ganondorf8 said:

And here I thought the villains had been completely forgotten about in favour of slice of life. When you think about it, working together has allowed Chrysalis, Lord Tirek, and Cozy Glow the opportunity to progress their own agenda without any part of it failing which had been the case when they all worked solo. Granted, villain alliances almost always fail due to them being unable to maintain said alliance. I expect these three will turn on each other soon enough or end up being punished by Grogar assuming he already knows what they are doing behind his back.

Frenemies did a much better job with the villains seeing as the episode was dedicated entirely to them, but this episode gave them more development along with the notion of them working together. I was actually expecting them to take advantage of Discord but that didn't even become an issue. On the subject of Twilight having improved from her freak out moments, I'll admit it comes across as having happened a bit too quickly, but then we don't have many episodes left so it's passable at best. I'm still surprised that no one has suspected the villains are even doing anything. You'd think someone would've checked up on Tartarus at least.

Aside from that, this was a solid episode that was much better than the previous two we've had. Lastly, do I detect a hint of foreshadowing with what was said about having the tribes turn on one another? If so, this could prove most interesting if done correctly.

I think it works considering we've seen her struggle to find her footing as a ruler.

[JH24 385]

8 minutes ago, Ganondorf8 said:

I'm still surprised that no one has suspected the villains are even doing anything. You'd think someone would've checked up on Tartarus at least.

That's something I'm wondering too. Would no one have to bring food or water? Or are those things already present inside Tartarus? 

Edited August 24, 2019 by JH24

[Will Guide 21,360]

1 hour ago, JH24 said:

I got the same feeling. In his own way, Discord has been coaching Twilight since the start of season 4. I found it funny how he played along with the Mane 6 in trying to hide the chaos outside. One part of him enjoys seeing Twilight stressing out, but the other half seems to be sincerely proud when she succeeds in overcoming her flaws.

I agree. Some fans didn't like the idea of Discord being reformed in S3 because he would stop doing such chaotic stuff. But no, as the Spirit of Chaos, he still remains a chaotic character. He simply went from Chaotic Evil to either Chaotic Nuetral or Chaotic Good depending on your POV. 

And remember that it was Discord who bookmarked the pages of the Friendship Journal which tied to the keys to the Chest. And that was BEFORE Tirek tricked him into betraying the ponies in exchange for a friend who would allow him to be as chaotic as he pleased. Whether he knew it or not Discord really was helping out the gang. 

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

25 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

They didn't know that at the time. 

Well, duh, no they didn't know. But the ending proved it that they were wrong. And like I said, even when Twilight couldn't handle it, they should have told her nonetheless. What about Where the Apple Lies, Top Bolt, Leap of Faith, Sleepless in Ponyville, Green Isn't Your Color, A Bird in the Hoof, Horse Play, Secrets and Pies? All of these episodes' (and I can name more) characters didn't know how it would end up and tried to do something they thought it would be a better choice at the moment. They thought they could make it without telling the truth.

What kind of TV show tells kids to lie? This episode, The Summer Sun Setback tells the lesson is not to lie, even if it's a relatively smaller part of the episode.

There was a reason for them lying, but it was wrong.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Sepul-Coloratura

[Will Guide 21,360]

23 minutes ago, JH24 said:

That's something I'm wondering too. Would no one have to bring food or water? Or are those things already present inside Tartarus? 

If Grogar was powerful enough to zap Tirek and Cozy out of Tartarus without anyone noticing a thing, then there's a possibility that Grogar managed to make it "look" like nothing's amiss in Tartarus. For all we know Grogar could easily leave illusion version of tarek and cozy glow, and no pony would be the wiser.

Sometimes the best explanation are the ones we come up for ourselves rather than being fed to us. It's no fun to have every single answer given to us on a silver platter. It's fun and healthy to speculate

Edited August 24, 2019 by Will Guide

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

42 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Does she need one at this point beyond "she's crazy"?

There are some very perplexing questions about Cozy, such as there not being a single family member present when she was sent to Tartarus. Generally if a kid gets unruly, the first thing a school does is talk to the parents about it. If she got to that school without her parents, where are they? Did they care? Is she a runaway? Did she kill them?! Then the next question is if she has no family, then who admitted her to the school? Did she fake it?

For a lot of Season 8 I really kept wondering if she was actually Chrysalis in disguise. It's... weird.

48 minutes ago, Lord Valtasar said:

. i have to admit i wasn't a big fan of Cozy last season because they never gave her a backstory, but she was the catalyst for something great and she has won me over, i'd still like a backstory but not to the point that it's a dealbreaker

Looking back on what she was doing, re really almost comes off feeling like benevolent dictator rather than tyrant, despite the power-mongering she was after from the whole "friendship is power" perversion of the original message. Her attempt to steal magic as a stepping stone to her goals was pretty nearsighted, but then a lot of that was probably Tirek whispering nasty things into her head; we really don't know how much of what she is now is a result of Tirek brainwashing her. But regardless, it seems like she really believed that the world would be happy under her reign. She didn't seem to want to hurt anyone, and merely didn't seem to grasp that what she was doing was actually harmful in the end. So it's really not too surprising that she was able to get the villains to work as a team. She's still doing her Empress of Friendship thing, but to a smaller audience.

28 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

She was Twilighting roughly since season 4 or even earlier. She was told to rule Equestria in season 9. So she's been stressing out when she was just a princess and and she didn't show progress then (season 4-8) and she showed progress at this episode since she was told to be the next ruler of Equestria even when it is a bigger stress than before. I get that she had bigger reasons to freak out this time, but doesn't that make it even harder to overcome than before? I'm just asking since we are digging into more specific things. It doesn't make sense if compared to past episodes.

Unfortunately, nobody knows what their breaking point is until they hit it. And nobody else can predict it. It's seldom talked about, but it's a very scary reality. People can literally succumb to anxiety and depression after decades of self-confidence and chasing along a bright and glorious future. No sudden trigger yanking the rug out from under them. Just... boom. Some also just get hit with it gradually, which is what I feel like was happening to Twilight. The stress was slowly piling up faster than it could be released, and it was reaching the breaking point in "Trivial Pursuit," and she realized she needed to do something. How Twilight figured out how to deal with that, unfortunately is something we'll never know now.