S03:E13 - Magical Mystery Cure

[Tom Snyder 4,112]

I just hope they don't botch it, that bit with the fight between tirek and twilight seemed pointless.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

After thinking back on it for a while, I reeeeally don't buy the idea that it was the spell, not Celestia herself, that made Twilight an alicorn.

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

After thinking back on it for a while, I reeeeally don't buy the idea that it was the spell, not Celestia herself, that made Twilight an alicorn.

The magic clearly comes from inside Twilight herself, and Celestia's horn isn't glowing before or after it happens. 

There's no evidence Celestia is doing anything magical to make it happen.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

The magic clearly comes from inside Twilight herself, and Celestia's horn isn't glowing before or after it happens.

There's no evidence Celestia is doing anything magical to make it happen.

 

How about the fact that she's there in the first place?

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

How about the fact that she's there in the first place?

She came to support Twilight and reassure her through her transformation. That doesn't itself constitute evidence that she MADE it happen.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

She came to support Twilight and reassure her through her transformation. That doesn't itself constitute evidence that she MADE it happen.

Well hold on. The spell was something Twilight wrote in a book, which activated the elements of harmony. Are you suggesting that the "magic" coming from inside Twilight supports the idea that that spell caused her transformation? Because that seems as completely disconnected logically as Celestia does.

 

I haven't mentioned why I don't buy it yet, but first I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say.

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

I'm saying however the transformation was triggered, it wasn't Celestia's doing, but came from inside Twilight herself. The stated reason for it happening at all is that she created new magic, something Starswirl couldn't do. The only link to Starswirl is the spell she finished. Clearly Celestia guided her to it, but the completed spell itself is the cause of the transformation.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

the completed spell itself is the cause of the transformation.

How do you figure?

It sounds obvious but I'm asking for the most comprehensive logical connection between completing the spell and the transformation you can offer.

 

 

 

she created new magic, something Starswirl couldn't do

But Starswirl is the father of the amniomorphic spell.

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

How do you figure?

It sounds obvious but I'm asking for the most comprehensive logical connection between completing the spell and the transformation you can offer.

 

 

 

But Starswirl is the father of the amniomorphic spell

I'll try my best. 

 

In Twilight's Flashback

Twilight Sparkle: Dear Twilight Sparkle,

The spell contained on the last page of this book is Star Swirl the Bearded's secret unfinished masterpiece. He was never able to get it right, and thus abandoned it. I believe you are the only pony who can understand and rewrite it. Princess Celestia

 

In the Phantom Zone or Whatever It Was

Princess Celestia: You did something today that's never been done before. Something even a great unicorn like Star Swirl the Bearded was not able to do, because he did not understand friendship like you do. The lessons you've learned here in Ponyville have taught you well. You have proven that you're ready, Twilight.

 

Celestia states that Twilight did something Starswirl couldn't do, and that's why she became an alicorn. The thing Starswirl couldn't do was finish that spell. If you believe that Celestia was lying the entire time, you'll need to have good reasons for thinking that.

 

As to why completing this spell is somehow different to completing the amniomorphic spell (which despite the statement on TV Tropes, has nothing to do with pottery but with embryology), that isn't explained, which it definitely should have been. It's one of the negatives of the episode.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Ok, that's a really important line you brought up.

You have proven that you're ready, Twilight.

Does that sound like Twilight has just cast a spell that turns her into an alicorn? Or does it sound like completing the spell has convinced Celestia to allow her to become an alicorn? Who has Twilight "proven herself"to if not Celestia?

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

Ok, that's a really important line you brought up.

Does that sound like Twilight has just cast a spell that turns her into an alicorn? Or does it sound like completing the spell has convinced Celestia to allow her to become an alicorn? Who has Twilight "proven herself"to if not Celestia?

I interpret it as being "ready to accept her destiny", or "ready to be presented to Equestria as its newest Princess". She's proven herself to destiny and the world at large. I don't believe Celestia is allowing her to become an alicorn, it's a natural consequence of what she's accomplished. If Celestia had said "You have proven to me that you're ready", that would be much more easy to interpret as a choice Celestia is making to award her alicorn status. The fact that the writers didn't have her say exactly that makes me think my interpretation is correct, as it would be so easy to emphasize if it were the other way.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

The magic clearly comes from inside Twilight herself, and Celestia's horn isn't glowing before or after it happens. 

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There's no evidence Celestia is doing anything magical to make it happen.

The people who animated the scene probably just forgot to make Celestias horn glow. So this doesn't prove anything. 

[GreyScholar 1,584]

The people who animated the scene probably just forgot to make Celestia's horn glow. So this doesn't prove anything. 

Unless you can prove the animators forgot to animate Celestia horn glowing, such a reply as that has no merit. Since there is no animation of Celestia using magic or casting a spell during Twilight's transformation one must state that Celestia did not. The magic came from Twilight herself, not from Celestia, and unless you can offer evidence of this otherwise being the case I am calling BS.

 

Also, again, I must point out the fact that Cadance transformed into an alicorn with Celestia not even in the picture until after this change had taken place and young filly/former pegaus found herself in that astral plane Twilight had gone to and met Celestia (As per Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell). As such, unlike your idea that the animated 'forgot' to animate Celestia using magic on Twilight, there is evidence that one can became an alicorn without help from or even guidance of another alicorn. No matter how much you try dismissing this book because it wasn't used on the show, it has better canonicity then you statement that the animators 'forgot' to animatr Celestia using magic.

 

Please stop this, it is getting annoying since I receive email everytime I get a reply. And given I open all such emails from MLP Forums it means I away see you trying desperately to make Celestia in the wrong. Sighs

 

((I apologize if this comes off a bit ranty, I am getting a bit annoyed))

Edited January 31, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Dulset Tarn,

Sighs, Twilight is the Princess of Friendship what do you think Sherlock? 

 

... putting aside the smartass answer the way I personally see it is that for those ponies that 'awaken' as an alicorn once an inner discovery takes place inside. Sometimes it happens unexpectedly, like Cadance after defeating the witch that attacked her village, or perhaps expectantly such as at the guidance of another such as Celestia with Twilight... but both required a realization of one's destiny or purpose and unlocking of magic within. Though with Twilight the catalyst for this was completing an unfinished spell.

 

What were the echoed words of the spell that led to Twilight figuring out how to finish it? "A mark of one's destiny, singled out alone, fulfilled." And what was the words Twilight wrote? "From all of us together, together we're friends. With the marks of our destinies made one, there is magic without end!"

 

At least, this is what I have come up with when it comes to what I have been given and consideration what what as not shown. For example the fact that no where does it show Celestia using magic on Twilight before or during her transformation. One would have better argument that Starswirl's spell brought the change, though in actual fact indirectly since the spell only transported Twilight somewhere else, then the princess herself.

Edited January 31, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Dulset Tarn 441]

@@Dulset Tarn,

Sighs, Twilight is the Princess of Friendship what do you think Sherlock? 

 

... putting aside the smartass answer the way I personally see it is that for those ponies that 'awaken' as an alicorn once an inner discovery takes place inside. Sometimes it happens unexpectedly, like Cadance after defeating the witch that attacked her village, or perhaps expectantly such as at the guidance of another such as Celestia with Twilight... but both required a realization of one's destiny or purpose and unlocking of magic within. Though with Twilight the catalyst for this was completing an unfinished spell.

 

What were the echoed words of the spell that led to Twilight figuring out how to finish it? "A mark of one's destiny, singled out alone, fulfilled." And what was the words Twilight wrote? "From all of us together, together we're friends. With the marks of our destinies made one, there is magic without end!"

 

At least, this is what I have come up with when it comes to what I have been given and consideration what what as not shown. For example the fact that no where does it show Celestia using magic on Twilight before or during her transformation. One would have better argument that Starswirl's spell brought the change, though in actual fact indirectly since the spell only transported Twilight somewhere else, then the princess herself.

Just to be clear, do you believe that the spell itself had anything to do with the transformation? Or was it just the feat of completing the spell that somehow triggered a transformation?

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

Guys, let's keep things civil. A debate is good to have, but let's keep the insults out of this. I had to hide a few posts in regards to this.

 

Thanks.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Dulset Tarn,

The feat of completing the spell I would say, though more for the realization Twilight had that came from her experience that day and figuring out how to finish the spell.

 

@@PathfinderCS,

Though I realize I was probably hoofing the line, I am guessing I am not one of the insulters since my post wasn't hidden?

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

There's also the fact that when Twilight put the final full stop on her spell, there's this magical lightning effect.

It's probably meant to indicate to us that finishing the spell did indeed trigger something magical.

There's also Twilight's cutie mark burned into the floor:

So the destiny angle is strengthened too, I would say.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

@@Dulset Tarn,

The feat of completing the spell I would say, though more for the realization Twilight had that came from her experience that day and figuring out how to finish the spell.

Ok but not the actual spell itself.

 

 

There's also the fact that when Twilight put the final full stop on her spell, there's this magical lightning effect.

It's probably meant to indicate to us that finishing the spell did indeed trigger something magical.

There's also Twilight's cutie mark burned into the floor:

So the destiny angle is strengthened too, I would say.

Obviously the new spell did something, but I think claiming it was the direct cause of Twilight's transformation is even more ridiculous than the idea that Celestia did it herself.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Ok but not the actual spell itself.

Yes, not the actual spell itself

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Yes, not the actual spell itself

Eh, alright. I just don't see how your theory makes any sense without just invoking showwriter magic. I mean, Twilight certainly didn't feel ready or worthy or have any idea what was going on. Just like everything else, the only thing we have to go by is Celestia's word on it, which I don't buy in the slightest.

[Pinkie-Guy 563]

Twilight's promotion just doesn't make sense.  It feels contrived.  Maybe if Magical Mystery Cure had been a two parter, we would see something that would make sense of it.  I think it's something the show really dropped the ball on.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

You know, everyone says that if it were a two parter it would have been okay, but I honestly think that's just undue idealism.

What you mean to say is that if it actually made sense and were filled with events that lead up to the ascension, then it would be okay. But there are two problems with that. One, they could have done that with one episode, they just chose to fill it with nonsense and songs because they weren't willing to try and make it reasonable. Which goes into the second problem, everyone assumes that if it were a two parter, the extra time would be filled with exactly what the episode needed to work. That's a very big assumption people don't realize they're making, and if the writers couldn't be bothered to make sense out of one episode, why would anyone expect them to suddenly pick up their game in two episodes?

[Pinkie-Guy 563]

You know, everyone says that if it were a two parter it would have been okay, but I honestly think that's just undue idealism.

What you mean to say is that if it actually made sense and were filled with events that lead up to the ascension, then it would be okay. But there are two problems with that. One, they could have done that with one episode, they just chose to fill it with nonsense and songs because they weren't willing to try and make it reasonable. Which goes into the second problem, everyone assumes that if it were a two parter, the extra time would be filled with exactly what the episode needed to work. That's a very big assumption people don't realize they're making, and if the writers couldn't be bothered to make sense out of one episode, why would anyone expect them to suddenly pick up their game in two episodes?

 

I'll give you that being a 2 parter wouldn't necessarily make everything work out better, but I just don't think 22 minutes is enough time to cover everything properly.  It's more than just plot and exposition; it needs to be given weight.

 

I don't know how a 2 parter would work, but I know that the writers are good enough to do it well if they wanted to.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

I'll give you that being a 2 parter wouldn't necessarily make everything work out better, but I just don't think 22 minutes is enough time to cover everything properly.  It's more than just plot and exposition; it needs to be given weight.

 

I don't know how a 2 parter would work, but I know that the writers are good enough to do it well if they wanted to.

I think a much better idea would just be to make it happen later. Give it even more episodes of weight, like a whole season, rather than trying to cram it in where it doesn't belong. How's that?