gaming Cross-promotions are killing gaming.

[Ron Jeremy 2,032]

I can’t think of a pretty way to put it so I’ll be blunt: Item cross-promotions for games such as Team Fortress 2 are a cancer spreading throughout the video game industry, and the “Poker Night at the Inventory” games are perfect examples of it.

I’ll start with Team Fortress 2. It used to be an excellent team-based FPS. However, in recent years, it has become a terrifying homunculus of dated game design and new updates. Most of it is a different topic for another time, but for now, I’m going to discuss what is relevant to this topic. It has devolved into a hub for advertisement and cross-promotions. With the Wiki showing (at the time of typing this) that Team Fortress 2 has had cross-promotions for over 60 games alone, (and that’s not including things like the Adult Swim promotion) this cannot be denied.

I strongly believe that this business practice is slowly killing what makes games... games. More and more games are being made that cannot stand well on their own two legs, and need the ol’ crutch that is Team Fortress 2 to prop them up. Again and again mediocre games are being released, and their sales are being artificially being boosted because of their involvement in cross-promotions with popular online games such as Team Fortress 2. This is where the Poker Night games come in.

The Poker Night games are a series of games, currently two, that feature characters from various properties playing a game of poker. A main selling point for the games is cross-promotions along with the characters. I’ll admit that part of the reason I wanted the first one was for its promotional items. The first game features Team Fortress 2 promotional items, where the second one features both Team Fortress 2 and Borderlands 2 promotional items. Poker. Characters. Cross-promotions. These are the meat of the games. And they fail at two of them.

First up is poker. Hard to go wrong with poker, right? Not really. When it comes to poker, the series has several crippling, major flaws. The first one is a lack of variety. There isn’t much to offer here in the means of variety. For starter, despite the fact there are a great many varieties of poker, the developers choose to limit themselves to one (Texas Hold’ Em) for the first entry, and two (Texas Hold ‘Em and Omaha Hold ‘Em) in the second entry. What is possibly the greatest flaw, however, is the lack of multiplayer. You can literally play only with computer players. If you have ever played poker, you know this is a problem. Much of the fun of the game of poker lies in playing it with other humans, be they friends or otherwise. I can quite literally think of bargain-bin poker games for technically-inferior platforms that are better poker games. Heck, World Championship Poker on the DS gave me more hours of enjoyment than Poker Night at the Inventory did, because while being a bargain bin title by a company I can’t even remember, it actually had effort beyond being a simple advergame, such as tournaments, multiplayer with humans a level of variety to keep the player interested.

Second is characters. While I could question the rosters of characters, I won’t because that’s too subjective a topic. However, I will talk about the dialogue. For being a character-driven game, the characters get annoying far too quickly. My experience with the first game had me getting certain lines of dialogue burned in my head for eternity (You know, these cards actually smell like detritus!) due to their excessive repeating, to the point where after a while I scrambled to disable dialogue. In a character-driven game, this is a disaster. I also find it a problem that, in a game largely driven by its roster of characters, they didn’t get Bruce Campbell to play his role as Ash. Isn’t Bruce Campbell notably without work these days? This might seem like a nitpick, but it really isn’t. The game can’t even get one of its major selling points right. I must quote a Star Wars character for once. “Do or to not. There is no try.” When it comes to the very features you advertise as major selling points, cutting corners isn’t an option. Would Tetris have sold as well if you had to simply imagine the lines being cleared? Would Kirby Super Star have sold well if they were too lazy to put copy abilities in?

How does this relate to the topic of item promotions? It’s obvious. Item promotions are promoting laziness in game development, and the Poker Night games, essentially being little more than vessels for cross-promotions, failing at poker and characterization, are, as previously mentioned, perfect examples of it.

While this trend has been going on for some time now, the Poker Night games are what really show how ugly it can become. Sure, they can be entertaining for a couple hours, but beyond that, they have little substance of their own. The games are examples of item promotions becoming the main dish instead of the cherry on top. This is a bad thing. A very bad thing indeed.

The core of a game should be the game itself. It should be the fun factor that keeps the player playing the game. Keeps you wanting to play that next round, fight that next boss, gain that level, get that new sword. The video game industry becoming dependant on cross-promotions is a major problem because it lets companies get away with poor game design. If a mediocre game can sell as well as one with more effort put in it with the simple addition of cross-promotions, why put the effort in? Why put that extra level in the game when you can slap a gun for another game in it? Why add other game types? Weapons? Characters? When you can throw together a clown wig for Team Fortress 2, why do any of those things?

When the bare minimum gets accepted by consumers as the norm, it kills the quality of the products overall. It tells video game companies “Yes, it’s okay to put lipstick on a pig!” “Yes, it’s okay to put the satisfaction of the consumer low on your list of priorities!” “Yes, your game will succeed if it’s little more than a slice of toast for the processed animal fat that is excessive cross-promotions!”.

 

We gamers need to wise up. We need to take a stand. We need to say say "No!" with our dollars. We need to stop being suckered into buying mediocre games with items in other games. We need to stop purchasing the games that overly rely on this practice. Consumers have the largest say in the fate of the industry. By refusing to purchase games that prioritize the bonus over the core, we can tell the companies this questionable practice isn't appreciated. Will people ever wise up as a whole and stop supporting it? Sadly, no. People keep buying games with day 1 DLC, don't they?

[Scootalove 10,684]

I find it more of a supply & demand for more money that the gaming companies want. Like if your a huge gaming company and have a lot of gamers that buy the video games that you release, the company will supply the downloadable content and milk it until the customers buy more content. Meaning, the companies don't care about us but they just want to advertise & promote their game in anyway possible. But when the game comes out and the customers are disappointed, the company won't fix anything about the game.

Too much promoting in my opinion.

[Jozzeh 125]

Oh roop...not this kind of thread again.

All I need to say is that the Poker Night at the Inventory games is a series of crosspromotional games whose target audience is enthusiasts of Team Fortress 2 and Borderlands 2, both who recieve rewards for completing rounds of Poker within. 

 

"I’ll start with Team Fortress 2. It used to be an excellent team-based FPS. However, in recent years, it has become a terrifying homunculus of dated game design and new updates. Most of it is a different topic for another time, but for now, I’m going to discuss what is relevant to this topic. It has devolved into a hub for advertisement and cross-promotions. With the Wiki showing (at the time of typing this) that Team Fortress 2 has had cross-promotions for over 60 games alone, (and that’s not including things like the Adult Swim promotion) this cannot be denied."

 

And it is still the fantastic popular FPS that we love for its humor and hats and the fun overall game it is. The majority of people prefer the updates it has received because I think most of us agrees that if it wasn't, it'd become rather dull. We can slightly alter how we play our classes and make them stand out from the rest with customization and weapons. It's been growing ever since, and even more since it turned Free to Play. I'm not so sure if all of its players would agree with you calling it a "terrifying homunculus of dated game design and new updates".

 

"First up is poker. Hard to go wrong with poker, right? Not really. When it comes to poker, the series has several crippling, major flaws. The first one is a lack of variety. There isn’t much to offer here in the means of variety. For starter, despite the fact there are a great many varieties of poker, the developers choose to limit themselves to one (Texas Hold’ Em) for the first entry, and two (Texas Hold ‘Em and Omaha Hold ‘Em) in the second entry. What is possibly the greatest flaw, however, is the lack of multiplayer. You can literally play only with computer players. If you have ever played poker, you know this is a problem. Much of the fun of the game of poker lies in playing it with other humans, be they friends or otherwise. I can quite literally think of bargain-bin poker games for technically-inferior platforms that are better poker games. Heck, World Championship Poker on the DS gave me more hours of enjoyment than Poker Night at the Inventory did, because while being a bargain bin title by a company I can’t even remember, it actually had effort beyond being a simple advergame, such as tournaments, multiplayer with humans a level of variety to keep the player interested."

 

That's different game companies to you, they make poker games differently. Just like different bakeries have different tasty treats. Speaking of variety, some people might like it that there's only Omaha and Texas Hold'em which makes it simple. For such simplicity, it's not expensive for a game.

 

"How does this relate to the topic of item promotions? It’s obvious. Item promotions are promoting laziness in game development, and the Poker Night games, essentially being little more than vessels for cross-promotions, failing at poker and characterization, are, as previously mentioned, perfect examples of it."

No, item promotions like this helps advertise titles and the Poker Night games is just doing that; promoting several titles. Failing at poker? It works. Failing at characterization? That's trickier since some people doesn't recognize some of the characters, but this is the entire point: someone new to any of these characters will get to hear and learn a little about them. That's advertisement to you.

 

 

"While this trend has been going on for some time now, the Poker Night games are what really show how ugly it can become. Sure, they can be entertaining for a couple hours, but beyond that, they have little substance of their own. The games are examples of item promotions becoming the main dish instead of the cherry on top. This is a bad thing. A very bad thing indeed."

 

But you forget that these games were not designed to be played "forvever" . The main goal is to beat the opponents and claim the rewards in the Poker Night games. That's their point. Like football is about scoring goals.

Besides, people buying the games to unlock the items is basically explaining Telltale Game's market strategy is working out for them.

 

"When the bare minimum gets accepted by consumers as the norm, it kills the quality of the products overall. It tells video game companies “Yes, it’s okay to put lipstick on a pig!” “Yes, it’s okay to put the satisfaction of the consumer low on your list of priorities!” “Yes, your game will succeed if it’s little more than a slice of toast for the processed animal fat that is excessive cross-promotions!”.

 

For what they are, they "work". As I stated above, they probably were not seeking out to make it as top notch as poker can be, that'd rather be the emphasis they put on the characters (Which still falls a little short since the inevitable point where they have nothing new to say comes). You can play poker, but if you want something more refined, then look for another poker game! And honestly, it's their game, they can do whatever they want to it (As long as no rules are broken, and promotional stuff like this aren't).

 

 

We gamers need to wise up. We need to take a stand. We need to say say "No!" with our dollars. We need to stop being suckered into buying mediocre games with items in other games. We need to stop purchasing the games that overly rely on this practice. Consumers have the largest say in the fate of the industry. By refusing to purchase games that prioritize the bonus over the core, we can tell the companies this questionable practice isn't appreciated. Will people ever wise up as a whole and stop supporting it? Sadly, no. People keep buying games with day 1 DLC, don't they?

Now that's just wrong to tell people what they shouldn't buy. As long as you're happy with your purchase, it's a fine purchase. If a product doesn't make profit, the company will know it was a bad move and usually won't keep doing it. But considering Poker Night gained a sequel, I'd say that's the result of Poker Night 1 being a success. Why? Because people enjoyed it. No matter the cause if it's for the gameplay or the items, it made money for them and that's what matters. You got happy people everywhere.

 

 

 

The very title of this thread is just wrong..killing gaming? You're basically telling us that playing cross-promotional game..is killing gaming?
But the real weird part, is that you hardly even play team fortress 2, and you don't have Borderlands 2. Is this something that really bothers you that much?

I'd honestly be using your time to write to not complain about crosspromotions...if you want something real to complain about, I'd complain about EA. Ain't kiddin'.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Jozzeh

[Thrashy 2,799]

I don't disagree with your main points, I too find cross-promotions to be little more than ways for game companies to make a quick buck when they don't have the time or resources to put any real effort into making a truly engaging game. But I don't think it's necessarily sealing the coffin in which the video game industry currently lies.

 

In that regard, MY main hatred is directed at DLC and how it's basically got gamers everywhere by the balls. Don't get me wrong, the idea that you can get new content even after the game has given you everything that it intrinsically has to offer seems like pure genius. But you know what the real kicker is? The true, honest-to-God horror of it all that makes me never want to even pick up a game where it is announced that DLC will be available?

 

It's the fact that many an amateur programmer has tapped into the coding of games with this so-called "DLC" and have discovered that a lot of the "new items" or "new characters" or "new maps" that you "download" aren't even new at all. They already exist within the data of the game disc.

 

Think about that. You dish out a good $60 to play this new game, and you figure "Wow, these DLC items seem like they'd be awesome, I guess I don't mind dishing out another $10+ to have 'em all." Aaaaand you've been duped into paying for not new content, but merely a patch that allows you to access what is already in the game. So this game with a shelf price of $60 becomes a $70+ game, and you honestly didn't get anything truly new out of it.

 

Mind you, I'm not claiming that all games with DLC are guilty of this gargantuan middle finger towards gamers who work hard for their money, but the fact that such games exist at all necessarily puts any developers touting their DLC in a pot of suspicion. This is not "downloadable content", it's "unlockable content" at best, and that is what you call false advertising. Which I'm pretty sure is illegal, but then again, I'm also pretty sure big-name game producers could get away with murder if they had to.

 

I will always hold that game companies should dedicate their resources towards making games that are good enough to stand on their own legs, rather than relying on DLC, tie-ins or crossovers to push sales...marketing and promotion be damned. Better that tens of great games become obscure gems that initially fail to sell well than hundreds of mediocre games selling millions of copies due to raw hype alone.

[Zygen 6,065]

I don't think really it's killing gaming altogether, I actually like it in a lot of cases, however I can agree some games use this as basically their main and only real incentive to buy their game.

[Ron Jeremy 2,032]

@@Jozzeh....

 

And it is still the fantastic popular FPS that we love for its humor and hats and the fun overall game it is. The majority of people prefer the updates it has received because I think most of us agrees that if it wasn't, it'd become rather dull. We can slightly alter how we play our classes and make them stand out from the rest with customization and weapons. It's been growing ever since, and even more since it turned Free to Play. I'm not so sure if all of its players would agree with you calling it a "terrifying homunculus of dated game design and new updates".

 

Team Fortress 2 itself really doesn't have much to do with the subject at hand. The problem isn't so much the gameplay of the game as much as what it represents the video game industry is becoming. Team Fortress 2's gameplay is largely being cast aside in the priority of the developers of the game, while the game gets more and more promotional items poured into it. It's why we have game-breaking bugs from years ago still floating around while they dump in new hats to this day. While many people might not agree with me calling it a "terrifying homunculus of dated game design and new updates", that doesn't change the fact it's the truth. The game feels old at its core, which clashes horrendously with the promotional items for new games. It would be like if you fired up Super Mario Bros. and Justin Bieber popped up on the screen.

 

That's different game companies to you, they make poker games differently. Just like different bakeries have different tasty treats. Speaking of variety, some people might like it that there's only Omaha and Texas Hold'em which makes it simple. For such simplicity, it's not expensive for a game.

 

Yeah. Some bakeries give you a bagel with onion and poppyseeds. The others give you a breadstick and tell you to bend it into a bagel shape.

 

Price isn't really a good way to justify a game being lackluster. There are many excellent games in existence that are in the same price range as the Poker Night games, many that are cheaper, and many that are free. Take for example Cave Story, which you can get free (or choose to buy Cave Story+), is noted for its level of depth, and was developed by a single guy. The Poker Night games have no excuse.

 

No, item promotions like this helps advertise titles and the Poker Night games is just doing that; promoting several titles. Failing at poker? It works. Failing at characterization? That's trickier since some people doesn't recognize some of the characters, but this is the entire point: someone new to any of these characters will get to hear and learn a little about them. That's advertisement to you.

 

Item promotions done properly help advertise titles. Trine 2 has cross-promotion TF2 items. Are they bad? No, because they don't interfere with the quality of the game itself. While item promotions done properly are like salt on fries with a burger, item promotions done poorly are like slathering mayonnaise on the burger and fries to mask their rancid flavor.

 

Good advertisement games can hold their own weight. Taker for example McKids on the NES. While an advertisement fast food, its entire existence isn't just an advertisement. If you strip the branding away, you've still got a surprisingly decent innovative platformer. If you stripped the characters from the Poker Night games, you'd be left with a entirely bland experience. A game should be fun, not just full of pretty faces. Substance.

 

But you forget that these games were not designed to be played "forvever" . The main goal is to beat the opponents and claim the rewards in the Poker Night games. That's their point. Like football is about scoring goals.

Besides, people buying the games to unlock the items is basically explaining Telltale Game's market strategy is working out for them.

 

A poker game should be designed to be played "forever". And so should a football game. Poker and football both should be timeless.

 

When item promotions are done properly, the game shouldn't be bought solely to unlock the items. They should be the cherry on top, not the meat of the experience. The fact that the business strategy working is saddening because it's setting the industry up for a dark age of little effort from developers and decreased expectations from consumers.

 

The very title of this thread is just wrong..killing gaming? You're basically telling us that playing cross-promotional game..is killing gaming?
But the real weird part, is that you hardly even play team fortress 2, and you don't have Borderlands 2. Is this something that really bothers you that much?

 

Yes, playing games that poorly execute cross-promotions is killing gaming. It's telling the companies that putting a lackluster product on the shelves so people will buy it to make a fat Russian maniac wear a wig in another game instead of putting effort into adding substance to the game itself is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.

 

And yes, I don't play Team Fortress 2 anymore, and don't have Borderlands 2. But the problem still bothers me. Because it's already affecting the games I enjoy.  Whenever I'm curious about a game that happens to have promotional items in another game, I have to do a bit more research into it so I can be informed as a consumer and make a wise purchase, and know I'm not buying a game that's simply a husk with guns and hats jammed haphazardly into it.

[Jozzeh 125]

"Team Fortress 2 itself really doesn't have much to do with the subject at hand. The problem isn't so much the gameplay of the game as much as what it represents the video game industry is becoming. Team Fortress 2's gameplay is largely being cast aside in the priority of the developers of the game, while the game gets more and more promotional items poured into it. It's why we have game-breaking bugs from years ago still floating around while they dump in new hats to this day. While many people might not agree with me calling it a "terrifying homunculus of dated game design and new updates", that doesn't change the fact it's the truth. The game feels old at its core, which clashes horrendously with the promotional items for new games. It would be like if you fired up Super Mario Bros. and Justin Bieber popped up on the screen."

Underlined: That's being ignorant, that is only your opinion and not a fact.

And bugs happens to any game...no argument needed here.

Yeah. Some bakeries give you a bagel with onion and poppyseeds. The others give you a breadstick and tell you to bend it into a bagel shape.

 

"Price isn't really a good way to justify a game being lackluster. There are many excellent games in existence that are in the same price range as the Poker Night games, many that are cheaper, and many that are free. Take for example Cave Story, which you can get free (or choose to buy Cave Story+), is noted for its level of depth, and was developed by a single guy. The Poker Night games have no excuse."

You're now comparing apple and pears...

 

 

Item promotions done properly help advertise titles. Trine 2 has cross-promotion TF2 items. Are they bad? No, because they don't interfere with the quality of the game itself. While item promotions done properly are like salt on fries with a burger, item promotions done poorly are like slathering mayonnaise on the burger and fries to mask their rancid flavor.

 

"Good advertisement games can hold their own weight. Taker for example McKids on the NES. While an advertisement fast food, its entire existence isn't just an advertisement. If you strip the branding away, you've still got a surprisingly decent innovative platformer. If you stripped the characters from the Poker Night games, you'd be left with a entirely bland experience. A game should be fun, not just full of pretty faces. Substance"

Sorry to break that bubble, but as fun as that game might be - its entire existence IS just advertisement and is mostly a mario 3 ripoff with a few added elements. You can't strip the branding away either, then that game has lost its meaning.

 

"A poker game should be designed to be played "forever". And so should a football game. Poker and football both should be timeless.

 

When item promotions are done properly, the game shouldn't be bought solely to unlock the items. They should be the cherry on top, not the meat of the experience. The fact that the business strategy working is saddening because it's setting the industry up for a dark age of little effort from developers and decreased expectations from consumers."

You CAN play poker forever on it, nothing stopping you from to. If you get bored, you can try to alter the themes.

 

 

"Yes, playing games that poorly execute cross-promotions is killing gaming. It's telling the companies that putting a lackluster product on the shelves so people will buy it to make a fat Russian maniac wear a wig in another game instead of putting effort into adding substance to the game itself is a perfectly acceptable thing to do."

 

But these aren't executing poor cross-promotions? They've probably made a good paycheck on making those games. That does not spell poorly executed cross-promotion just because you say it.
And if people know what to expect, they will easily decide if they want it or not.

 

"And yes, I don't play Team Fortress 2 anymore, and don't have Borderlands 2. But the problem still bothers me. Because it's already affecting the games I enjoy.  Whenever I'm curious about a game that happens to have promotional items in another game, I have to do a bit more research into it so I can be informed as a consumer and make a wise purchase, and know I'm not buying a game that's simply a husk with guns and hats jammed haphazardly into it."

I'm pretty sure that the games lets you see what you can expect already..if you're disappointed, don't buy the game. Simple as that!

[Killian Jones 2,653]

These games can only work if you are willing to suspend your disbelief. Honestly, I wouldn't touch these games with a ten foot long pole. They are unnecessary, and I highly doubt there is much intrinsic demand for a Poker game with video game characters. The big question remains as "Why?". While we can clearly see who these games are targeted at. It doesn't explain why an unnecessary amount of development and time has to go into producing these games. Especially if the entire sales pitch has to be "Get stuff to use in other games."

 

I don't care about getting new items in TF2 or Borderlands 2. I think I will just play them as I have them.