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Why does everyone think it's "cool" to hate Skrillex?


Justin ZW

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I sincerely hope I'm not translating this incorrectly, but it seems to me that what you're saying is that I need to state, in plain text, that every opinion I state is...well, an opinion? Because if everyone who ever expressed an opinion on these forums needed to put a disclaimer in their posts, e.g. "The following statements are the poster's own opinion and are not to be taken as a presentment of fact," then I know a LOT of posts that need to be edited...and that's not just counting this thread.

No, I'm saying that you shouldn't be calling matters of fact "opinions". "The sky is pink" is not an opinion; it's a statement that flies in the face of what can objectively be observed and known.

 

When you say "live instruments take more talent than electronica music", that too is a statement that flies in the face of what can objectively be observed and known and therefore is also not an opinion.

 

An opinion is defined as a viewpoint pertaining to subjective matters and is based on a subject where certainty is lacking. In the subject we're discussing, at least to those educated in it, certainty is by no means lacking; it's in abundance.

 

And as for subjectivity vs. objectivity, I do not think these words mean what you think they mean, sir. In fact - not opinion - you seem to have the definitions totally reversed, if I am correctly interpreting your posts:

 

Subjectivity dictates a biased, necessarily opinionated look at something based on personal suppositions and anecdotal evidence, thus making my thoughts on the matter purely subjective. And although you are free to argue against my claims (I don't necessarily disagree with your arguments, by the way), I'll not necessarily heed them as fact either, unless you can present valid evidence to debunk them.

Incorrect. The statement that live instrumentation takes more talent than electronic music composition can be objectively proven. Therefore, your thoughts on the matter are not purely subjective. I understand that maybe you're not aware that you're incorrect, but ad ignorantiam isn't a free pass to call a viewpoint on an objective matter an "opinion".

 

Nothing's stopping you from looking this stuff up.

 

Objectivity, on the other hand, calls for a purely logical, scientific approach to a topic based on empirical observation.

Yep, those definitions are spot-on, and every single one of my posts falls in line with them.

 

Although you are free to take a calculated, scientific approach as to why you think people do/should/shouldn't hate Skrillex (or, in my case, electronica in general),

I'm not saying you shouldn't dislike electronica. I'm just saying you shouldn't misrepresent the talent that goes into it as you did as a basis for that distaste, because that ends up being an opinion formed out of ignorance.

 

If you don't like it, it's because it doesn't adhere to whatever aesthetics you prefer. That's fine. We're all like that. Just don't make up stuff like "it takes no talent" to justify that distaste, though.

 

that's not what exactly what I was going for, in case I may have said something in my post to make you think otherwise. Was it the conviction in my tone? I may have conviction in my belief that electronica takes less time and effort to produce than traditional music - a view that I freely admit is unfounded - but that does not necessarily mean that I hold it as completely infallible. Post a video detailing the process of producing an electronica song, and you might just sway me.

There is no one way to produce an electronica song, just as there's no one way to produce a song of any genre, but any good electronica song will take several hours, even days to bring to a level where it's ready to be mastered and released, just as any piece utilizing live instruments. There's a lot to consider when you're making an electronica track, much of it involving development of sound from a producer's standpoint as well as a musicians (i.e., wheras making a guitar riff or bassline might simply be a matter of how well the notation and textures mesh with other elements in the music in a purely aesthetic way, an electronica artist has to apply that method of thought on a scientific level to ensure that waveforms don't conflict, that the primary frequencies of particular synths don't clash, etc. etc.). The knowledge requisite to effectively work with synthesizers goes so far beyond your typical plug-n-play session for a guitar during the writing process, whereas stuff like that is only applied during production for live instrument tracks.

 

Seriously, bring this argument to the OC ReMix forums if you're really looiking to get schooled on this subject. A lot of electronica artists reside there, many more talented than both of us combined, and they'd be able to enlighten you better than I. I only retain a basic knowledge of electronic music production, but its certainly enough to know it takes just as much talent as live instrumentation, abeit more so in some areas (like composition) and less so in others (like performance).

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Or maybe the people who dislike him, just don't have a taste for his music. Skrillex's style is a preferred taste that many people don't have.

And I'm saying that the people who hate skrillex don't have to go around and compare it to everything dubstep.  I like his old stuff and I don't rlly keep up with his new music (the newest being bangarang), but all the kids these days compare every dubstep song to skrillex, it's getting to be a little much... It was just my explanation for why though. 


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(edited)

I don't like Skrillex, either. Not because I'm jumping on a mindless hate bandwagon, but because dubstep (or whatever subgenre of electronica he's actually a part of, according to some o' you purists) is nothing more than a musical joke to me.

 

Let me explain. Make no mistake that I DO understand why people like it, and this is not to be taken as a criticism of the musical tastes of those who do enjoy it.

 

But the elitist in me cannot respect electronica artists as actual "musicians" since almost nothing they make contains actual recordings, only prerendered samples and beat loops that are arranged and manipulated with the click of a mouse. I'm sorry, but any way you look at it, even the most trite of poppy soft rock bands have more talent in them than most electronica composers, if for no other reason than the fact that they actually record live acoustics (let alone have the skill to learn how to play an instrument or sing in the first place).

 

Not all electronic musicians use software, as some people (such as I) prefer to use some pure analog hardware with real knobs, and sliders to tweak. Software synths is what the majority of people use because it's more convenient, not everyone has 3000$ to spend on one piece of equipment, and the best price that you can get out of cheap analog hardware is 500$, anything lower than that price is pretty much useless, or just meant for you to just screw around and have fun with.

 

 

 

I'm not saying they don't have to go through a grueling mixing and mastering process of their own; that does take some skill, at least...assuming they don't just have a producer do all that for them. But the fact that every beat, every pitch, everything is so perfect and devoid of any human error...well, it removes the distinctly human aspect of the music almost entirely.

 

Ever heard of the term "work with what you have", many producers and bands out there start out with little to nothing, yeah there's some software out there that let's you create a track in 5 minutes and you end up getting the most generic top chart ready song (fucking ROMplers I wanna burn them all in a fire). Basically some choose to take the shortcuts and get a fancily produced song, while others prefer to go the long way and use the "work with what you have" motto without any shortcuts.

 

 

Want a musician who can prove you wrong? Well I think that the best suited example would be Squarepusher. He uses a real bass guitar in both his productions as well as during live performances, heck he even did one full album that was just all live improvisations.

 

Here's an actual electronic band named Mouse On Mars performing, you see that? Real synths, real drum sets etc.

 

 

Now as for performances people listen to electronic music for different reasons than people listen to Thrash or Death Metal. The kind of stuff that I prefer is Ambient, IDM, and Trip-Hop which are all meant to listen to in a different way, people enjoy those guys because of how complex they are, so during concerts they prefer to get into the music which is why they don't get stuff thrown at them, as for concerts like Skrillex, that's a whole different scenario.

Edited by gooM
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(edited)

And I'm saying that the people who hate skrillex don't have to go around and compare it to everything dubstep.  I like his old stuff and I don't rlly keep up with his new music (the newest being bangarang), but all the kids these days compare every dubstep song to skrillex, it's getting to be a little much... It was just my explanation for why though. 

 

If people call Skrillex's music Dubstep, then of course people are going to compare it with songs of the same genre, I don't see the problem in that.

 

Maybe I misunderstood your post and if so, sorry

Edited by Soundgarden
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I would not say it is 'cool' to hate him, just that he is incredibly overrated. He isn't bad, I will admit that, but he is far from the god that many make him out to be.

 

It is kinda like Call of Duty. The series itself is not bad, but it is by far one of the most overrated 'things' that currently exists on this planet and it does not deserve it's godlike popularity. Luckily, Skrillex is not to that level of market exploitation, yet.

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There was nothing incorrect about my statement. Picking up a guitar, learning a powerchord, and stringing a few together takes less than a day, and literally anyone with functional arms can do it (I should know, I'm not all that great at guitar but I had that much down in less than an hour on my first day at 15 years old). Learning everything required to make a good electronica track usually takes years, and sometimes ends up beyond the capabilities of some who just lack the natural aptitude for music composition.

 

Right but putting a few chords together is the eqivalent of putting a few melodies with different synths together in a DAW and in a day. Doesn't mean that it's anything more then a dinking around on an instrument. Music of any genre takes some form of technique, skill, practice, and knowledge, and often a fair amount of talent in being able to do it quickly and well. To be a polished song or track. Anyone could get on a drum set and hit a few toms and hats and say that they play drums or play a few basic melodies on piano but its practice and putting it into a well made song or track that takes months and years to master. Even soft rock artists do what they do WELL, otherwise EVERYONE would be able to do it. I don't have a lot of respect for Chicago or Kenny G because it's cheese and it's common denominator music but they still do THAT type of music well and there's an audience for it. I don't blame people for not liking music that isn't appealing to me or them but saying that there's no skill or work involved is ignorant and as musicians and music lovers we should KNOW that.


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Right but putting a few chords together is the eqivalent of putting a few melodies with different synths together in a DAW and in a day. Doesn't mean that it's anything more then a dinking around on an instrument. Music of any genre takes some form of technique, skill, practice, and knowledge, and often a fair amount of talent in being able to do it quickly and well. To be a polished song or track. Anyone could get on a drum set and hit a few toms and hats and say that they play drums or play a few basic melodies on piano but its practice and putting it into a well made song or track that takes months and years to master. Even soft rock artists do what they do WELL, otherwise EVERYONE would be able to do it. I don't have a lot of respect for Chicago or Kenny G because it's cheese and it's common denominator music but they still do THAT type of music well and there's an audience for it. I don't blame people for not liking music that isn't appealing to me or them but saying that there's no skill or work involved is ignorant and as musicians and music lovers we should KNOW that.

 

The point I was trying to make is that Lowline is incorrect in his insinuation that some of the worst in one particular genre, simply because they play live instruments, are more talented than some of the best in another genre. That's seriously the entire brunt of my argument with that paragraph.

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(edited)

I do understand your frustration with my statement, but realize that it's based off the supposition of...well, exactly what you said - anyone can create a beat/melody etc. You see, while it's generally true that it takes real talent to make a good beat/melody, that doesn't account for all the talentless hacks in the world who basically "get lucky" by haphazardly plopping down notes that just happen to sound good. Also, as I addressed to someone else, I realize that many artists may in fact use actual keyboards to record their stuff. But again, this is not always the case, as anyone can synthesize something in a midi sequencer, import it into FL Studio, assign the appropriate soundfonts to it and then simply claim to have recorded it. It's just a hard thing to tell when you're dealing with synth, and those who do actually record, I actually have respect for.

 

 

Anyone can also create a riff on a guitar or a beat on a drum kit. And there are countless of "talentless hacks" in non-electronic music as well.

 

As for whether or not the artist creates his or her music with a keyboard via a midi cable, or directly intotheir DAW doesn't matter much. When working on electronic music, I personally like to compose the melodies on my keyboard or guitar, and then program it. Some artists use midi cables, others work purely with the software. (A lot of) electronic music is about a somewhat different set of skills to playing "real" instruments. Whether or not the listener is able to appreciate and enjoy that kind of skill is a another matter. (As the video I linked in previous post talks about.)

 

I think it was you who mentioned something about finding it amusing that Skrillex tours when he doesn't actually do much. I don't know much about Skrillex's performances, but performing electronic music live

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I don't particularly like any type of completely electronically made music (though yes, I admit, I do like J and K-pop :P), and as a result I never liked him. I don't think he's as good as everyone makes him out to be; he's like some deity or something to people. He's not bad, but he's not a genius either...a lot of his stuff (or at least what I've heard) is just absolute repetition, which is which I dislike the most of the electronic and pop genres. I'm okay with some trance, but nothing "heavy". :P (Yes, trance is respective...but it's pretty. XD)

 

I don't "hate" him because he's popular (then again, I don't hate him). I just dislike his incredibly overzealous following and his style of making music. He seems like an okay guy.


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The point I was trying to make is that Lowline is incorrect in his insinuation that some of the worst in one particular genre, simply because they play live instruments, are more talented than some of the best in another genre. That's seriously the entire brunt of my argument with that paragraph.

 

Well that sounds perfectly reasonable. I agree.

 

There's advantages to playing live instruments just as there are advantages with being able to use electronics but i agree that the whole instruments are better then electronics is played out and silly. They are just different and each require different skills.

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There is so much butthurt over other peoples' taste in music in here. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. wink.png

 

Personally, I do not give a rat's ass about the "science" of music. That notion is just plain silly to me. The only thing that I care about is whether or not the music sounds good, plain and simple. Skrillex has produced some music that I like, and some that I do not. The same goes for pretty much every artist or band out there. My opinions concerning musicians are not derived from the music that they produce, but rather their overall character.


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Skrillex is more like techno than dubstep imo-I don't have a problem with him or his music. Anyone who's creating something is cool in my book. I can't listen to too much of it-it seems more repetitive than regular Dubstep to me.

 

As a lot of other folks have said, his music made me look at the genre more closely, and was a gateway into the heavier stuff I like.

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Skrillex is more like techno than dubstep imo-I don't have a problem with him or his music. Anyone who's creating something is cool in my book. I can't listen to too much of it-it seems more repetitive than regular Dubstep to me.

 

As a lot of other folks have said, his music made me look at the genre more closely, and was a gateway into the heavier stuff I like.

 

Skrillex being Techno could not be any further from the truth. Techno and Dubstep (Even though Skrillex actually is Brostep) are 2 COMPLETELY different things. Here is a typical Techno song:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaThtqe1YI0

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Skrillex being Techno could not be any further from the truth. Techno and Dubstep (Even though Skrillex actually is Brostep) are 2 COMPLETELY different things. Here is a typical Techno song:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaThtqe1YI0

O.k.

 

I'm probably not too up to date with my definitions-what I meant was that it sounded more like techno to me. Not that it is classified in that way.

 

I came up with the whole Electro thing in the early '80s, through the rave and acid house scene in the '90s-so I've listened to a lot of different versions of the theme. Techno is another word for a style of music which, in my opinion, is very closely related to house, Dubstep, Acid and any other label you want to pick.

 

Not really interested in a debate-just my opinion is all.


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O.k.

 

I'm probably not too up to date with my definitions-what I meant was that it sounded more like techno to me. Not that it is classified in that way.

 

I came up with the whole Electro thing in the early '80s, through the rave and acid house scene in the '90s-so I've listened to a lot of different versions of the theme. Techno is another word for a style of music which, in my opinion, is very closely related to house, Dubstep, Acid and any other label you want to pick.

 

Not really interested in a debate-just my opinion is all.

 

I never wanted to cause a debate, I just wanted to inform you of what Techno actually is

 

And btw, Dubstep have no relations what so ever with techno or House, it's related to Dub, DnB, UK Garage and Grime. Just letting you know ^^

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And btw, Dubstep have no relations what so ever with techno or House, it's related to Dub, DnB, UK Garage and Grime. Just letting you know ^^

 

Yeah I know-it was created in South London, which is where I was born.

 

Thanks for the definitions update-however I don't think I'm going to be able to keep it all straight.


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We could drop an Ishkur link in here to make it all a little easier to understand although they didn't keep that site up to date WITH Dubstep at all. http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide Anyway it points a simpler picture then any other electronic genre although this could help just as much too, especially for rockists.

 

Best to know at least a better idea of what the words mean if you're going to use them ;) Certainly we've had 2 decades to see techno improperly used time and time again so you are not the first and won't be the last. happy.png


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So I'm seriously tired of people always comparing everything to Skrillex and generally shitting on him.

 

1. Sonny Moore is a talented individual. It's quite possible that his previous fame of From First to Last helped him break through into mainstream with his Skrillex act, but I still believe in giving credit where it is due.

 

2. You can't compare every damn dubstep track ever to Skrillex. This really annoys the hell out of me. I feel like every time I find a good dubstep song on YouTube, the top comment involves someone hating on Skrillex. Seriously? Judge the music by its own right, not by "how it compares to Skrillex."

 

3. If you don't like Skrillex, that's okay, but is it really necessary to start this massive anti-Skrillex campaign? I honestly feel like that's what's happening right now.

 

Now, I like Skrillex, but his music was what introduced me to dubstep, and I have ever since explored further into the different styles. While I still enjoy his music, I have other preferences as well.

 

I just wanted to vent a little about this. I'm not saying he's the greatest musician ever, just saying that the hating is getting old, and it's becoming the "cool" thing to do nowadays.

 

How about y'all? Do you actually listen to Skrillex?

Skrillex is hated because he's the new thing. I used to hate him, but then I found out there was an extensive remix/cover scene that was brought on by him. 

This cover really changed my opinion of him.

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(edited)

Anyone can also create a riff on a guitar or a beat on a drum kit. And there are countless of "talentless hacks" in non-electronic music as well.

I'll heartily agree with there being plenty of talentless hacks in traditional music. The drumming remark, on the other hand, I'm not sold on, and perhaps it'd have helped if I'd been more specific about exactly what I was comparing electronica production to, which is to say, what I (and way more talented musicians than myself) produce: intricate and fairly technically demanding heavy metal, often very progressive in nature.

 

I will concede that melody and harmony writing is a chore no matter what you're using to do it. But as far as beat is concerned, there is simply no way I'm willing to believe that producing a pre-EQed electronic dance beat in 4/4 (which pretty much all mainstream music, as well as most electronica, is metered to) in any way compares to having to live-record an actual prog metal drummer, who is forced to esentially micro-manage every hit he makes, in time signatures as tame as 5/4 to ones as nuts as 9/8 (all of this at tempos upwards of 170 bpm, mind you). And then having to level and EQ every single track once he's finally got a take he's satisfied with...the mere thought makes me cringe; I've done it. That said, I would never in a million years agree that an electronic beatmaker can compare to a drummer such as what I've described here.

 

Now, is it necessarily fair that I would compare the work processes that go into two wildly different genres? Probably not, and I do realize now that I probably should have kept that in mind the moment I started writing my first post in this thread, would've saved everyone a whole lotta butthurt if I'd just said "You know what? Apples and oranges" and split. And for stirring that shit-pot, I apologize.

 

I think it was you who mentioned something about finding it amusing that Skrillex tours when he doesn't actually do much. I don't know much about Skrillex's performances, but performing electronic music live

.

 

Here's an actual electronic band named Mouse On Mars performing, you see that? Real synths, real drum sets etc.

This kind of stuff is actually exactly what I wanted to see, and I'm genuinely glad I've been proven wrong on this point. If most electronic performances are like what you've shown me here, then my respect for the supergenre as a whole has just shot up quite a bit. Sure, it's not as grandiose as metal performances, but again, given that these are two wildly different genres, it doesn't need to be. As long as they're doing something more than hitting the Play button on a Macbook (as per the general perception of electronica artists, that they're essentially nothing more than glorified DJs at live venues), then it's something I can definitely tip my hat to.

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This kind of stuff is actually exactly what I wanted to see, and I'm genuinely glad I've been proven wrong on this point. If most electronic performances are like what you've shown me here, then my respect for the supergenre as a whole has just shot up quite a bit. Sure, it's not as grandiose as metal performances, but again, given that these are two wildly different genres, it doesn't need to be. As long as they're doing something more than hitting the Play button on a Macbook (as per the general perception of electronica artists, that they're essentially nothing more than glorified DJs at live venues), then it's something I can definitely tip my hat to.

 

Some choose to take the DJing route, some choose to go the traditional way and still bring their equipment on a live stage. It usually depends on what subgenre it is. Most of the time with live synths being brought up it's usually from the guys who have been around in the electronic music scene for a longer time than guys like Skrillex have been, basically those who have been around before DJing culture took over live performances, I'm not saying that some did choose to go down the DJing route, but really it depends on the person/band and what they prefer to do. Though it's mostly either the old school guys (as I mentioned before),lesser known bands or the bands/artists who take influence from other genres. Since you're such a Metalhead I think you'll be happy to see Infected Mushroom use real electric guitars live.

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I know that people may chose to dislike something because everyone else likes it. Skrillex is more of a subcategory of dubstep producer. But he still makes good music. I've seen tons of people hate on many types of dubstep. No one seems to have the exact qualities of the dubstep they like down. That is because it is so easy to make dubstep. It is easy to combine certain types of dubstep and electronic music to create new music. Nobody thinks its cool to hate on skrillex because they don't. Every body just can't pick what kind of music created to like. Skrillex has a rougher more slicey kind of technique. But smooth in between. Plus saying that you hate skrillexes music but like dubstep is like saying that you hate bread but love pancakes. It doesn't work.

 

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Probably the same reason why many people hate on Justin Bieber (Seriously, his music does suck and all, but calling him gay because of My World? Grow up... he's no longer on that album anymore)

Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites is actually one of my favorite songs (YES! OH MY GOD!)


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My initial reaction was a snicker at the beginning vox, but the moment he started scat singing...that's what totally won me over.

 

So yeah, I guess it really was just run-of-the-mill ignorance that caused me to make the unfounded assumption that everyone takes the DJ route live. But seeing that the "human element" is alive and well has really rejuvenated my outlook on heavily-synthed music...totally not what I used to picture whenever I would hear such music.

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(edited)

I'll heartily agree with there being plenty of talentless hacks in traditional music. The drumming remark, on the other hand, I'm not sold on, and perhaps it'd have helped if I'd been more specific about exactly what I was comparing electronica production to, which is to say, what I (and way more talented musicians than myself) produce: intricate and fairly technically demanding heavy metal, often very progressive in nature.

 

 

I will concede that melody and harmony writing is a chore no matter what you're using to do it. But as far as beat is concerned, there is simply no way I'm willing to believe that producing a pre-EQed electronic dance beat in 4/4 (which pretty much all mainstream music, as well as most electronica, is metered to) in any way compares to having to live-record an actual prog metal drummer, who is forced to esentially micro-manage every hit he makes, in time signatures as tame as 5/4 to ones as nuts as 9/8 (all of this at tempos upwards of 170 bpm, mind you). And then having to level and EQ every single track once he's finally got a take he's satisfied with...the mere thought makes me cringe; I've done it. That said, I would never in a million years agree that an electronic beatmaker can compare to a drummer such as what I've described here.

 

Now, is it necessarily fair that I would compare the work processes that go into two wildly different genres? Probably not, and I do realize now that I probably should have kept that in mind the moment I started writing my first post in this thread, would've saved everyone a whole lotta butthurt if I'd just said "You know what? Apples and oranges" and split. And for stirring that shit-pot, I apologize.

 

 

What I was trying to say was, hitting your tom-tom drum repeatedly, for example, creates a beat. Does it require great talent or skill? No.  img-1453712-1-wink.png Neither does doing the same in a DAW.

Now, I do understand where you're coming from, and I do agree. However, you're comparing the composition of a beat to the performance of a beat, which isn't quite the same thing. But again, some electronic artists perform their beat live, others don't. Some even create the beat live and put it on a loop. This usually depends on how many members there are, as well as the social faux pas related to the genre. There's a million ways of performing electronic music,

 

As far as Prog Metal goes; being a fan of the genre myself, I highly appreciate it and the skill required to perform it. But comparing that genre to, say, Futurpop, is, as you put it yourself, apples and oranges.  I enjoy both genres, but I appreciate them for entirely different reasons.

As a huge Metal fan, I also really enjoy bands who blend Metal genres with Electronic music. (

 link because I don't want to spam you with videos).

 

 

 

Some choose to take the DJing route, some choose to go the traditional way and still bring their equipment on a live stage. It usually depends on what subgenre it is. Most of the time with live synths being brought up it's usually from the guys who have been around in the electronic music scene for a longer time than guys like Skrillex have been, basically those who have been around before DJing culture took over live performances, I'm not saying that some did choose to go down the DJing route, but really it depends on the person/band and what they prefer to do. Though it's mostly either the old school guys (as I mentioned before),lesser known bands or the bands/artists who take influence from other genres. Since you're such a Metalhead I think you'll be happy to see Infected Mushroom use real electric guitars live.

 

Yay, Infected Mushroom.

I'm going to post some live mind.in.a.box because I freaking love mind.in.a.box. He also has a good natural voice, particularly in the second video.

Did I ever tell you that I like mind.in.a.box?

 

 

 

Edited by Hansel
  • Brohoof 1

Pancakes taste like well seasoned DVD cases.

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