gaming How many games do you feel actually challenge gamers in this day and age?

[Ventfy 19]

Pertaining to games of this generation I have a love-hate relationship. To me an ideal game would be a mental challenge. One where you have to devise a strategy quickly, and execute it before it is to late.

There are some games like it, for example Halo, or Bioshock from what I am reading. But not quite, and I don't mean a game like LoL, WoW, or kotor. I hate those types of games in my opinion. Shooters are being churned out like it's a fad or something and they don't leave me with a good experience.

Games with difficulty are meaningless to me, because all it does is alter damage, enemy placement, amount, and health. It doesn't change the game much at all except put you at a disadvantage to make the game "harder"

By know people would think of "Dark Souls" or "Dragon Age: Origins" but not those games either. There has never been a game to challenging for me but I remember a long time ago, I played my first Final Fantasy game (don't remember anything else). I was breezing through it easily and I got stuck at a part where I was in a 1v3 and couldn't beat the guy. I remember his name which is ironically funny seeing as how I don't remember anything else. It was Anima and that guy was a real struggle to beat. I ended up not playing the game for a month and when I got back on it I annihilated the guy.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Ventfy

[Chacobos 160]

As a pure game without having to ramp up the difficulty? Maybe a handful at most. Super Meat Boy, Fire Emblem(yes you ramp the difficulty but it is a strategy game so that doesn't factor in too bad, just makes you think more about what you do), Dark Souls, Demon's Souls, Monster Hunter games, a number of other strategy games, and so on and so forth.

 

Basically what these games have in common is that they require you to not just rush and be reckless, they require you to pay attention and think about what your approach will be. In reality, there are two kinds of difficulty, bullshit difficulty and strategy difficulty. Kind of why my list is like above. 

[SoundRaptured 139]

Hah wow I was about to say the same thing: Bioshock 1 and 2, but mostly 1 was harder. I haven't done infinite yet.

other than that I'd say the hardest game I played was when I was a kid I played Lost Levels and almost literally went insane. hah, those were the good days.

Morrowind was pretty dang hard. especially when you're a mage. day 266, spending months on end casting the same spell to get better at it. no joke. waste all your magic, cast 10 spells, and then go back to sleeping till fully rest. even then it's still.. ahh great game though.

Kid Icarus Uprising was pretty difficult on 10.

the FIRST kid Icarus was freaking hell to go through though. me and my bro couldn't even get past the first level.

[~Silver Essence~ 2,625]

  On 2013-05-30 at 10:03 AM, Creeping Dusk said:

So, in todays age of games that seem to tender more towards squeezing money from the consumer rather than providing them with a quality experience, what games have you played that still provide you with a challenge when you play? 

 

You may guess what inspired me to create this, I recently purchased Bioshock Infinite, and before I play that I figured I would celebrate by going through the first 2 on Hard difficulty. It wasn't until I had to fight my first Big Daddy that I realised exactly how hard it was, and it's safe to say it's enough of a game to give me a challenge.

 

Another would be the original Halo trilogy, Halo CE on Legendary was incredibly challenging, but doable with some perseverance, but that's an old game, much like Halo 2 - back when games at least had an illusion of wanting to be a great experience. 

 

So, any similar experiences with challenging games that break the monotony of today's 5 year old fan base? 

You sir are correct in every way!

I agree with you, most games today don't seem to have that difficulty games had back then.

Take for me for example, the hardest games I've accomplished was the god of war series, beating all the brutal difficulties!

But as of now, sadly there's almost no games that challenge gamers hardcore.

The only game as of now that challenges me pretty well is the monster hunter series.

Very good and challenging game that I recommend to everyone for the hardcore gamers!

[Nobody Special 210]

Going back along ways... Axis and Allies for computer with all your enemies set at 5 star generals. that was insane considering I have trouble beating 4 stars and then 5 stars I have lost everying one the first 5 turns.

[Betez 1,734]

I feel like there are some games that are challenging and fun, but I feel like indie games are the games that have the most challenge nowadays.

[Mutemutt 773]

I'd also like to say that fighting games in general are challenging because of their competitive nature. You'll always find someone out there that is just as good as you are, if not better. And then there is the fact that you actually have to put some time into learning how to play the game (more time than your average game) and it's a skill based genre; you can't overlevel your in-game stats or get ridiculous equipment to overcome your opponent. 

 

If you're looking for a challenge, you can't go wrong with a human opponent.

[Raritas 6,820]

I feel games aren't challenging enough sometimes. I'll give the Elder Scrolls as an example. Skyrim was amazing, but it held your hand throughout it. I went back to play Morrowind for the first time after I had played Skyrim and man was I lost. Morrowind just chucks you in, say's 'here's Morrowind, now off you go'. I got so confused when I first played it as you have to work stuff out which isn't perhaps clear. That's just a small example of some games going backwards. I still personally enjoy Skyrim more though. 

 

Challenging games now though? Dark Souls. Fifa if you have it on hardest difficulty with no assists. I'll add more when I think of them.

[Inactive01 5,299]

Most strategy games are very challenging. The Civilization Series, the Football Manager series, and any associated games require a lot of thinking ahead and predicting what you should do to reap the best results. Then there's the RTS games like Starcraft and Age of Empires. Those games can be very challenging if you face other people.

[Renon Strike 67]

Yeah i remember how difficult the Witcher 2 is when you first start i had difficulty even at normal especially fighting one of the main main bad guy it took me an hour to get used to.

 

I guess it really is up to the types of games, i think strategy games are tough some of the  heroes of might and magic 4 campaigns was more difficult, i could not take a town early on one of the hardest campaign then i lurked into a forum and found out that, it is actually easier to do most campaign at the highest difficulty level, which is very ironic.

 

I remember when i was playing the arkham city before asylum and i got to a predator section that was not a tutorial it too me a while to get the stealth and take downs right, and i like the difficulty of the predator sections as the story progresses it felt fair and challenging, and it does help you as you progress through the game.

 

some rpgs can be difficult such as baldur's gate.. they let you explore areas at your own peril and there are enemy npcs that are difficult to take on at lower levels. I liked icewind dale which i played recently, great challenge where tactics is important.

[Lunatic Cake 1,618]

Speedrunning RPG games is actually quite challenging, you have to know much about the enemies, your own characters and need great strategies. As for games nowadays, it's like every single one of them gives stupid tutorials like "Press X to jump" although you already did it, I mean seriously Captain Obvious?!

 

Main problem in games is all those tutorials, just write them in the damn game manual and let players read them instead of spamming the screen with stupid commands everyone should be able to find out themselves... Shows how challenging games are when they are supposed to be made for anyone, no matter how stupid. */rant*

[Mutemutt 773]

  On 2013-11-05 at 4:55 PM, Lunatic Cake said:

Main problem in games is all those tutorials, just write them in the damn game manual and let players read them instead of spamming the screen with stupid commands everyone should be able to find out themselves... Shows how challenging games are when they are supposed to be made for anyone, no matter how stupid. */rant*

 

Game manuals? What game manuals? Those are being phased out. What's the point of making users read a manual when you can just explain all the controls and mechanics in game? As long as they are skippable or can be turned off or just optional in general, I don't really see a problem with them. Plus, I don't think not telling someone how to play the game adds any real challenge to a game.

[Lunatic Cake 1,618]

  On 2013-11-05 at 5:24 PM, Mutemutt said:

Game manuals? What game manuals? Those are being phased out. What's the point of making users read a manual when you can just explain all the controls and mechanics in game? As long as they are skippable or can be turned off or just optional in general, I don't really see a problem with them. Plus, I don't think not telling someone how to play the game adds any real challenge to a game.

It's just an example of how game developers think of people. They display those tutorials so the player doesn't have to figure out by himself. Just compare with earlier games that are quite difficult actually, most of them had no tutorials (for every minor detail you could figure out by pressing a certain button) whatsoever ingame and were in fact challenging.

[Jokuc 8,174]

Well I haven't played that many games lately and not many of them has been that challenging. However, as mentioned before in here I must say that Super Meat Boy was pretty hard to beat. Took me ridiculous amounts of tries to beat some of the levels in dark worlds. But I love the game!

[Mutemutt 773]

  On 2013-11-05 at 5:27 PM, Lunatic Cake said:

It's just an example of how game developers think of people. They display those tutorials so the player doesn't have to figure out by himself. Just compare with earlier games that are quite difficult actually, most of them had no tutorials (for every minor detail you could figure out by pressing a certain button) whatsoever ingame and were in fact challenging.

You make it sound as if in-game tutorials are out there solving puzzles and playing through stages for you while you sit back and watch; they don't. Tutorials are merely there to show you what tools you have and the basic idea of the game; you then take those tools and work your way through the game yourself.

 

I find it silly to think that not telling someone how the game works counts as real difficulty. Whether the game told the player what button is jump has no effect on the game itself's difficulty, the player is just less competent than normal. It's like if player A challenged someone (player B to a game of basketball and decides to play with one hand tied behind their back. Player B hasn't gotten any better at the game, his difficulty level has not changed, player A has just become less competent. A game's difficulty depends on how much it challenges the player's mastery over the tools that the game provides.

 

So, while not having a tutorial may make the experience more challenging for the player, the game's own difficulty is unaffected, it just has a handicap in its favor. If that's your idea of difficulty in games then you shouldn't have much to complain about since that difficulty is easily created by the player: skip tutorials, avoid health packs, use only one party member, etc. In that sense, a game is as difficult as the player's self-imposed challenges can make it, and that's a lot of room to work with.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Mutemutt

[Lunatic Cake 1,618]

  On 2013-11-06 at 12:59 AM, Mutemutt said:

You make it sound as if in-game tutorials are out there solving puzzles and playing through stages for you while you sit back and watch; they don't. Tutorials are merely there to show you what tools you have and the basic idea of the game; you then take those tools and work your way through the game yourself.

 

I find it silly to think that not telling someone how the game works counts as real difficulty. Whether the game told the player what button is jump has no effect on the game itself's difficulty, the player is just less competent than normal. It's like if player A challenged someone (player B to a game of basketball and decides to play with one hand tied behind their back. Player B hasn't gotten any better at the game, his difficulty level has not changed, player A has just become less competent. A game's difficulty depends on how much it challenges the player's mastery over the tools that the game provides.

 

So, while not having a tutorial may make the experience more challenging for the player, the game's own difficulty is unaffected, it just has a handicap in its favor. If that's your idea of difficulty in games then you shouldn't have much to complain about since that difficulty is easily created by the player: skip tutorials, avoid health packs, use only one party member, etc. In that sense, a game is as difficult as the player's self-imposed challenges can make it, and that's a lot of room to work with.

You seem to misunderstand me. My problem is not the tutorial itself but how the developers think of the players. Games are set for casual gamers to get a better profit, therefore games are a lot easier than they are supposed to many times. I always do things that make the game a lot harder for me since I am always looking into challenges in games. Just look at Fatal Frame 2 Survival Mode. That game is extremely challenging, even the story playthrough can get really messy on higher difficulties, just look at the final boss that regenerates, beating that guy with the lowest film is almost impossible lol

 

Just compare games that give you an ingame tutorial and games that mention them once and never again but there are games out there where you are reminded like 30 times how to push one button. Games nowadays are not supposed to be difficult, they are supposed to be played by a large variety of people, therefore they purposely decrease the difficulty so everyone will play through it and not only those looking for a challenge.

[Mutemutt 773]

  On 2013-11-06 at 9:34 AM, Lunatic Cake said:

You seem to misunderstand me. My problem is not the tutorial itself but how the developers think of the players. Games are set for casual gamers to get a better profit, therefore games are a lot easier than they are supposed to many times. I always do things that make the game a lot harder for me since I am always looking into challenges in games. Just look at Fatal Frame 2 Survival Mode. That game is extremely challenging, even the story playthrough can get really messy on higher difficulties, just look at the final boss that regenerates, beating that guy with the lowest film is almost impossible lol

 

Just compare games that give you an ingame tutorial and games that mention them once and never again but there are games out there where you are reminded like 30 times how to push one button. Games nowadays are not supposed to be difficult, they are supposed to be played by a large variety of people, therefore they purposely decrease the difficulty so everyone will play through it and not only those looking for a challenge.

 

Can't say I remember playing any game that gave a tutorial more than once unless I asked for it, but I guess I'll take your word for it. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that that is a pretty rare occurrence. 

 

Let's be honest here, not everyone is super amazing at every game. Games are supposed to be enjoyed, so if a game is so utterly frustrating that you can't enjoy it, then there is not much reason to play it. Developers try to appeal to a wide audience and that's also why they have adjustable difficulties. To me, that says "Hey, I know there are a lot people out there that want to play this game, some better than others, but we're going to try and have a range of difficulties to good enough to accommodate everyone. We've got mania mode for those masochistic, over-achieving completionists and picture-book mode for all the babies that need much more than a generous helping of hand holding. Oh and other difficulties for those other guys that no one really talks about..." Having a game that's just brutally difficult is exclusionary by comparison (kind of the same deal for games that are really easy in a way), nothing wrong with that, but not every game should be that. I just don't like the idea that only the best of the best should be able to get through and enjoy games in general.

 

In truth, I think most games these days hit that "just right" difficulty for me: I'm not running into so much trouble that I give up on the game and they're not so easy that I become bored. But is there enough extremely challenging games out there for the hardest of the hardcore to really sink their teeth into (and then brag about it later. Don't deny it; You know you want to )? I don't know; I don't really look for that in the games I want to play. But is the average game challenging enough for me? Yes, very much so.

 

So, I guess I typed all this to say that I value the inclusiveness of games above the challenge they deliver.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Mutemutt