Nightmare Moon and Season 4 [Spoilers]

[Scootadress 361]

And so we have a motive. Luna intends to, firstly, shove Twilight out of the picture, before taking over Equestria, and ruling it with an iron hoof, punishing those who did not appreciate her night like they appreciated Celestia's day. And therefore, to keep the balance between day and night, Twilight must once again become the Destroyer of Nightmares in order to save Equestria, and take her rightful place as the new ruler. Once again, it all, makes, sense.

Of course, but she can't do that alone. See where I'm going? Luna might lead Twilight in a different direction and make her do something she regrets later from force or Twilight must do this alone. That's something she never did before.Ever. She had everyone by herside. Luna knows this. Get rid of the allies and get to the head!

[Wardaddy 470]

Of course, but she can't do that alone. See where I'm going? Luna might lead Twilight in a different direction and make her do something she regrets later from force or Twilight must do this alone. That's something she never did before.Ever. She had everyone by herside. Luna knows this. Get rid of the allies and get to the head!

I can see where you're going alright. Isolate Twilight from her friends, and then start sneaking hints of doubt into her mind. What I can't see is the end result, unless you're saying Twilight will turn heel and join Luna, becoming her Enforcer of Darkness. Other than that, I'm kind of in the dark here.

[Scootadress 361]

I can see where you're going alright. Isolate Twilight from her friends, and then start sneaking hints of doubt into her mind. What I can't see is the end result, unless you're saying Twilight will turn heel and join Luna, becoming her Enforcer of Darkness. Other than that, I'm kind of in the dark here.

See, its not hard to manipulate Twilight to do what you wish. With a few strings, she can easily make Twilight the Enforcer of Darkness. Discord easily did this. He just said simple little nothings in their ear and watches as they destroy eachother. She can do this by trickery, tricking her into thinking her friends despise her or something similar suit while, in actuality, they are somewhere else.

[Wardaddy 470]

See, its not hard to manipulate Twilight to do what you wish. With a few strings, she can easily make Twilight the Enforcer of Darkness. Discord easily did this. He just said simple little nothings in their ear and watches as they destroy eachother. She can do this by trickery, tricking her into thinking her friends despise her or something similar suit while, in actuality, they are somewhere else.

Holy crap. Luna may just become what Sunset Shimmer failed. And that, my friend, is the BEST MLP villain in existence! Better than NMM, better than Discord, (sorry Discord fanboys, had to be said!) better than Chrysalis, (when we all thought she was a separate pony) and waaay better than Sunset Shimmer! Now that we have a conclusion, it's time to resume tracking for fresh updates from Hasbro, see if they have anything related to Luna and her allegiance to the dark side.......

[Dark Horn 430]

Random question: Have you guys read the Nightmarity comics? If you haven't, you might want to right about now. They're up on YouTube, and I think they might change this theory considerably.

[Scootadress 361]

Random question: Have you guys read the Nightmarity comics? If you haven't, you might want to right about now. They're up on YouTube, and I think they might change this theory considerably.

Well, they were fanmade themselves, I can't use that as evidence ^^",

 

Holy crap. Luna may just become what Sunset Shimmer failed. And that, my friend, is the BEST MLP villain in existence! Better than NMM, better than Discord, (sorry Discord fanboys, had to be said!) better than Chrysalis, (when we all thought she was a separate pony) and waaay better than Sunset Shimmer! Now that we have a conclusion, it's time to resume tracking for fresh updates from Hasbro, see if they have anything related to Luna and her allegiance to the dark side.......

Well, to give credit, Discord's still the only one with enough strength to turn it around. Luna's a planner, which gives her the upper hoof. However, Discord's very powerful as well, he just doesn't use it like Luna wants too. He's discord, he's neutral. He has vast power, but he doesn't need it. He likes to mind fuck people and play games. Because of the utopia these ponies built, he can't stay there. Its not like he harmed any pony in reality. He didn't enslave them, didn't shroud the world in darkness, or take it over. He could have done all of that. He just chose not to. He thinks that was a huge game. He didn't want to, however, 'cheat' by touching Fluttershy, he was rather unhappy about it.

[Dark Horn 430]

 

 

Well, they were fanmade themselves, I can't use that as evidence ^^",

 

Er, actually, maybe I'm very, very mistaken, as I generally am, but I thought they were legitimate comics written and created by Hasbro.

[Scootadress 361]

Er, actually, maybe I'm very, very mistaken, as I generally am, but I thought they were legitimate comics written and created by Hasbro.

 The comics are made by various people. Sometimes you might even see sections on DeviantART for that reason. They hold no true merit towards the show. If they had, then everything we past saw in the show would have been spoiled.

 

(The moment when Scootaloo in the comics with Chrysalis always correcting the other two would not have probably happened in the show, seeing that she constantly had. The characters sort of took a darker turn or reverted. In those particular comics, its been labeled as not from Hasboro. I wish it was.)

[Dark Horn 430]

 The comics are made by various people. Sometimes you might even see sections on DeviantART for that reason. They hold no true merit towards the show. If they had, then everything we past saw in the show would have been spoiled.

 

(The moment when Scootaloo in the comics with Chrysalis always correcting the other two would not have probably happened in the show, seeing that she constantly had. The characters sort of took a darker turn or reverted. In those particular comics, its been labeled as not from Hasboro. I wish it was.)

Ah, my bad. I didn't see a "Not From Hasbro" label stamped on them, in fact I was pretty sure I saw that they were legitimate, which would explain the Crystal Heart Spell chapter in the back of the comic. Then again, I don't have the comics in the paper form, so you're probably correct.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Dark Horn

[Scootadress 361]

Ah, my bad. I didn't see a "Not From Hasbro" label stamped on them, in fact I was pretty sure I saw that they were legitimate, which would explain the Crystal Heart Spell chapter in the back of the comic. Then again, I don't have the comics in the paper form, so you're probably correct.

Nightmarity wasn't made by Hasboro, however, the other comics are from some place LICENSED by Hasboro. They have no cannon purposes though.

 

 Inore the fact it wasn't made by hasboro. It was licensed, but still not directly made from them. They still aren't canon. I wish they were, they make Scoots seem much smarter then the show...

Edited September 21, 2013 by Scootadress

[Wardaddy 470]

Well, they were fanmade themselves, I can't use that as evidence ^^",

 

Well, to give credit, Discord's still the only one with enough strength to turn it around. Luna's a planner, which gives her the upper hoof. However, Discord's very powerful as well, he just doesn't use it like Luna wants too. He's discord, he's neutral. He has vast power, but he doesn't need it. He likes to mind fuck people and play games. Because of the utopia these ponies built, he can't stay there. Its not like he harmed any pony in reality. He didn't enslave them, didn't shroud the world in darkness, or take it over. He could have done all of that. He just chose not to. He thinks that was a huge game. He didn't want to, however, 'cheat' by touching Fluttershy, he was rather unhappy about it.

Oh yes, I forgot that Discord was reformed, but the question here still remains. Will he fight against Luna, or will he do what he always does best, and that is to fuck things up for both parties? Thinking about it, I don't think Discord will take too kindly to the idea of being forced to appreciate Luna's night. But then again, who is he to decide which side he'll fight for? Goddamn, even in writing, Discord can give you a serious mindfuck, concerning his motives and allegiances anyway.

[Scootadress 361]

Oh yes, I forgot that Discord was reformed, but the question here still remains. Will he fight against Luna, or will he do what he always does best, and that is to fuck things up for both parties? Thinking about it, I don't think Discord will take too kindly to the idea of being forced to appreciate Luna's night. But then again, who is he to decide which side he'll fight for? Goddamn, even in writing, Discord can give you a serious mindfuck, concerning his motives and allegiances anyway.

That's just it:Discord (the term) is neutral. He can't be reformed, its an oxymoron. However, he's not necessarily evil. That's the problem.

[FNGRpony 658]

I think this is a fantastic theory,

and they could even tack on a lesson that some times the people you trust most will sometimes disappoint and hurt you,

 

I'm not sure I can give the writing staff that much credit. 
And don't hand me "it's a girl show nonsense.."

 

I think theirs' room to have complex schemes, difficult struggles that extend beyond half hour to an hour, and henchman that aren't as dopey as snips an snails LOL.  (Why can't we have a bad guy using trixie and sunset as flunkies?)

 

their expendable, annoying, everything you'd want in henchmen.

[Wardaddy 470]

See, its not hard to manipulate Twilight to do what you wish. With a few strings, she can easily make Twilight the Enforcer of Darkness. Discord easily did this. He just said simple little nothings in their ear and watches as they destroy eachother. She can do this by trickery, tricking her into thinking her friends despise her or something similar suit while, in actuality, they are somewhere else.

And also, something else came to mind. With Twilight turned heel, then who will save Equestria?! Well, obviously it'll be the Mane 5, but facing Twilight, their friend and group leader, will be an extremely tough task, considering her power. In fact, it would also make room for the introduction of Starswirl the Bearded, pending confirmation he is not dead, to assist the Mane 5 by breaking Twilight free of Luna's deception. Obviously, he'd be proud that Twilight succeeded where he failed, and rather than trying to fight it, it would be in his best interests to cultivate the first unicorn to achieve his spell. And how would he start? Simple: free Twilight from Luna, and guide her to the victory over the alicorn of the night. Simple as that, says I

Edited September 21, 2013 by Firebolt Blitz

[Dark Horn 430]

And also, something else came to mind. With Twilight turned heel, then who will save Equestria?! Well, obviously it'll be the Mane 5, but facing Twilight, their friend and group leader, will be an extremely tough task, considering her power. In fact, it would also make room for the introduction of Starswirl the Bearded, pending confirmation he is not dead, to assist the Mane 5 by breaking Twilight free of Luna's deception. Obviously, he'd be proud that Twilight succeeded where he failed, and rather than trying to fight it, it would be in his best interests to cultivate the first unicorn to achieve his spell. And how would he start? Simple: free Twilight from Luna, and guide her to the victory over the alicorn of the night. Simple as that, says I

At this point, we have devolved from interesting theories based on logic and on-screen things to random headcanons and writing our own episodes.

[Scootadress 361]

And also, something else came to mind. With Twilight turned heel, then who will save Equestria?! Well, obviously it'll be the Mane 5, but facing Twilight, their friend and group leader, will be an extremely tough task, considering her power. In fact, it would also make room for the introduction of Starswirl the Bearded, pending confirmation he is not dead, to assist the Mane 5 by breaking Twilight free of Luna's deception. Obviously, he'd be proud that Twilight succeeded where he failed, and rather than trying to fight it, it would be in his best interests to cultivate the first unicorn to achieve his spell. And how would he start? Simple: free Twilight from Luna, and guide her to the victory over the alicorn of the night. Simple as that, says I

I'm not sure if the rest of the mane 5 would do much. I was curious about the idea of having something that was stronger then the elements come to play. I taggled with the idea myself using 3 ponies of the three races. Maybe it would look a little better if it wasn't always the mane 6 doing all the work? I'm not sure. ^^"

 

 

I think this is a fantastic theory,

and they could even tack on a lesson that some times the people you trust most will sometimes disappoint and hurt you,

 

I'm not sure I can give the writing staff that much credit. 

And don't hand me "it's a girl show nonsense.."

 

I think theirs' room to have complex schemes, difficult struggles that extend beyond half hour to an hour, and henchman that aren't as dopey as snips an snails LOL.  (Why can't we have a bad guy using trixie and sunset as flunkies?)

 

their expendable, annoying, everything you'd want in henchmen.

HA! I like the way this dude thinks. One episode is all it takes for this. 

[Wardaddy 470]

At this point, we have devolved from interesting theories based on logic and on-screen things to random headcanons and writing our own episodes.

Just goes to show you the true power and creative genius of the young human brain

 

Seriously though, can't blame a guy for trying to find an alternate for a situation that seems to be a foregone conclusion. In this case, I looked and thought desperately for a reason for Nightmare Moon to return in Season 4, not in a flashback either, and just when all hope seemed lost, I was given a guiding light, and Celestia thank the user named Ray who provided me that eye-opening Youtube link.

[Dark Horn 430]

Just goes to show you the true power and creative genius of the young human brain

 

Seriously though, can't blame a guy for trying to find an alternate for a situation that seems to be a foregone conclusion. In this case, I looked and thought desperately for a reason for Nightmare Moon to return in Season 4, not in a flashback either, and just when all hope seemed lost, I was given a guiding light, and Celestia thank the user named Ray who provided me that eye-opening Youtube link.

Yes. I will be very, very happy if Luna = Chrysalis. Of course, then, what would we call her? Is Luna the original and Chrysalis just another alter ego, or is Chrysalis the real one?

[hawkflame 3,310]

The problem with the return of Nightmare moon is that it flies in the face of the very core message that the show is trying to project, which is that through the power of love and friendship, anyone could be redeemed. If Nightmare Moon returns, then that means all of the development and growth Luna has experienced since the end of the two part premiere will have been for nothing. That's for a world much more cynical than the one in MLP:FIM.

 

I want Nightmare moon to return too, but not at the price of the show's core values.

[Castle Bleck 19,400]

 

The comics:

 

NMM = separate being.

 

Nightmare Rarity = NMM revived via Rarity's insecurities.

 

Climax = NMM/NMR nearly breaking Luna again, but not THIS time, as Luna realizes Equestria now backs her 100% (she, Spike, and everypony else then give Rarity similar encouragement, finally weakening NMM/NMR and letting the Mane 6 **** HER @$$ UP!!!).

 

So, I say S4!NMM's a flashback/test/etc., because too much wasted character development if present/genuine/etc.

 

Edited September 22, 2013 by Anti-Villain

[ItsRay24 4]

I honestly think with all the seasons I've been watching over and over the very core message of this show there trying to project is slowly changing or straying from that message. With all these theories and information we are finding they all seem to add up to Luna/NMM plotting to take the crown by defeating her sister, and then there's twilight who is I believe the biggest threat to Luna/NMM. Like come on how lucky can a pony be. If Luna/NMM is in recon mode planning to strike, then she is doing a great job she now knows that the elements of harmony dont work, she challenged her sister celestia and defeated her, can break that shining armor barrier, and those guards can't stop Luna/NMM lol remember the season 1 episode when the mayor of ponyville told them to seize NMM???.

@Firebolt blitz your welcome man i was in the same situation as you searching and hoping NMM would return and came across an amazing video and ha to show you all.

[hawkflame 3,310]

I honestly think with all the seasons I've been watching over and over the very core message of this show there trying to project is slowly changing or straying from that message. With all these theories and information we are finding they all seem to add up to Luna/NMM plotting to take the crown by defeating her sister, and then there's twilight who is I believe the biggest threat to Luna/NMM. Like come on how lucky can a pony be. If Luna/NMM is in recon mode planning to strike, then she is doing a great job she now knows that the elements of harmony dont work, she challenged her sister celestia and defeated her, can break that shining armor barrier, and those guards can't stop Luna/NMM lol remember the season 1 episode when the mayor of ponyville told them to seize NMM.

@Firebolt blitz your welcome man i was in the same situation as you searching and hoping NMM would return and came across an amazing video and ha to show you all.

 

Sorry, but where is any of the actual, in-show evidence, not speculation, but *evidence* pointing to any of this? 

 

Really, the idea that Luna's redemption was a LIE is such a betrayal to what the show has been about to this point that if it actually comes to pass, I will seriously consider dropping it completely. 

[Dark Horn 430]

The problem with the return of Nightmare moon is that it flies in the face of the very core message that the show is trying to project, which is that through the power of love and friendship, anyone could be redeemed. If Nightmare Moon returns, then that means all of the development and growth Luna has experienced since the end of the two part premiere will have been for nothing. That's for a world much more cynical than the one in MLP:FIM.

 

I want Nightmare moon to return too, but not at the price of the show's core values.

Actually, the moral of Griffon the Brush-Off was kind of to give up on friends who don't like you for who you are. I mean, seriously, not EVERYONE is redeemable. Well, technically, everyone IS, but not plausibly in the time of the human lifespan. I mean, 200 years isn't really long enough to make Hitler become a world peace advocate, much less 20, or even 2.

 

Discord was kind of an exception, as he wasn't really evil, merely chaotic, and chaos is always neutral. Plus, it was more of a seduction than a redemption.

 

Not to go TOO far off topic, just stating my opinion that it would certainly not ruin the show's excellent morals to unredeem Luna. And even if they showed that Luna was evil to begin with, and still is, she's immortal, and has plenty of time to go good and become the fun-loving, Blame-My-Sister-T-Shirt-Wearing Luna we all know and love.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Dark Horn

[hawkflame 3,310]

Actually, the moral of Griffon the Brush-Off was kind of to give up on friends who don't like you for who you are. I mean, seriously, not EVERYONE is redeemable. Well, technically, everyone IS, but not plausibly in the time of the human lifespan. I mean, 200 years isn't really long enough to make Hitler become a world peace advocate, much less 20, or even 2.

 

Discord was kind of an exception, as he wasn't really evil, merely chaotic, and chaos is always neutral. Plus, it was more of a seduction than a redemption.

 

Not to go TOO far off topic, just stating my opinion that it would certainly not ruin the show's excellent morals to unredeem Luna. And even if they showed that Luna was evil to begin with, and still is, she's immortal, and has plenty of time to go good and become the fun-loving, Blame-My-Sister-T-Shirt-Wearing Luna we all know and love.

 

Gilda was a one-off character and that was it.  Plus it was not like they established her as being redeemed and then went back on it, she was just a bad seed to begin with. 

 

With Luna, it would make the ending of the series premiere, and all of Luna Eclipsed, into a giant lie.  All of the growth that she experienced there will have been for nothing.  And if she goes evil and then becomes re-redeemed, how would anyone even trust her again?  They would just look like idiots.

[Dark Horn 430]

Gilda was a one-off character and that was it.  Plus it was not like they established her as being redeemed and then went back on it, she was just a bad seed to begin with. 

 

With Luna, it would make the ending of the series premiere, and all of Luna Eclipsed, into a giant lie.  All of the growth that she experienced there will have been for nothing.  And if she goes evil and then becomes re-redeemed, how would anyone even trust her again?  They would just look like idiots.

Well, Celestia, being a manipulator, still hasn't expressed why she let Luna come back after NMM. It's possible that there's a really good reason she let Luna back in and didn't tell anyone.

 

On a completely different note, Luna = Chrysalis is awesome. If Luna = Chrysalis, then everyone, even Celestia, was being played the whole time, there really WAS an overarcing villain, and... I mean, come on, we've seen Luna shapeshift and NMM and Chrysalis are the only two who stomp on things, plus do weird, scary things with their eyes.