Is the animation really that good?

[ErBoi 501]

Squash and stretch, overlapping action, secondary action, smears, slow-ins/slow-outs; these are all principles/techniques of animation that are not only followed in the show but usually done so with clear expertise.  And yes, there are tons of errors, (most often with certain body parts disappearing which Flash is extremely prone to) but that fact doesn't change how skillfully done the actual movement is.  That also doesn't change the fact that those same principles are rarely (or in many modern shows' cases, never) followed by a lot of of current TV animation.

Your own opinion of the show's aesthetic is just that, an opinion; you can love it, be lukewarm to it or hate it, and you wouldn't be wrong.  But saying the show's animation is very well done, well thought out, and among the best animation currently on TV is a statement of fact.

 

Far as I know, the show is still done with Flash which, as said, is prone to creating errors through no fault of the animator.  If it was possible for them to switch over to Harmony with no hiccups (which it almost certainly is not for various reasons), the amount of those kinds errors would probably dwindle considerably.

 

All that having been said, there are several moments in the show which I've looked at and immediately had thoughts of how they could have been animated better.

 

EDIT:  And I did notice they were really trying to step their game up with the composition in the season 4 premier, which is cool.  They're getting a lot of use out of rim lighting and rack focuses for sure.

Edited November 25, 2013 by ErBoi

[Grumpy Enchantress 587]

Far as I know, the show is still done with Flash which, as said, is prone to creating errors through no fault of the animator.

Um, no. It is the fault of the animator. It's a mistake that really only can be done on Flash (and possibly Toonboom or something) but, it is completely the animators fault if they put something on the wrong layer or put keyframes in the wrong spot or something like that. I'm not saying it's a huge deal, everyone makes mistakes but, don't act like it's somehow not the animator's fault. Flash isn't some super buggy program that will fuck shit up for you often or anything.

[Renon Strike 67]

I don't think it's the animation quality overall that attracts people to the art of the show, it's amount of storytelling in the animation that gets fans watching, and people drawn in from why am i watching this to this is pretty cool.

[Jokuc 8,174]

Of course it is.  You saw the latest episode, did you not?  The animation speaks for itself.  If you can't see that obvious fact, trying to explain it to you would be a waste of time.

Yes I did, but if it is so obvious, how come I don't see it? I know there's a lot of things done such as responding background characters and smooth movements, but what bugs me is how the body parts are moving with the whole body, it's kind of hard to explain how I mean exactly but I can see pretty easy after just one time of watching an episode that the body parts are copy-pasted. Maybe it's just that I don't like the animation style, I don't know. Maybe I am just comparing to good old classic animation style since I don't even watch cartoons except FiM anymore..

Edited November 25, 2013 by Jokuc

[Zygen 6,066]

Well, like everything there is people who blow it out of proportions, as there are those on the other end of the spectrum, and people everywhere in between.

 

So yes some blow it out of proportions.

 

However i do believe it is quite good, and has got better over time.

 

It just looks as though it has time and effort put into it. This is especially present in the many many facial expressions and such that characters have, it just feels so varied and natural, where as in some cartoons it feels like they're running a simple set of facial expressions, and sometimes characters look just so boring if you focus on them while talking or doing some actions.

 

MLP charactors just feel very lifelike to me, sure there are other cartoons who animate well, but alot don't seem to, MLP just feels like most of the time it has alot of effort into it and the animation and everything else.

 

So the facial expressions among many other stuff in the animation is awesome. Its just pleasing to look at, and feels very natural. 

 

Is MLP a revolutionary innovation in animation? Not necessarily, but it is still well animated very much so, and has alot of care it feels put into it, compared to alot of other shows. And that along with many other things, some i can explain, and some i can't, are what make MLP something i still find magical to this day.

[ErBoi 501]

it is completely the animators fault if they put something on the wrong layer or put keyframes in the wrong spot or something like that

This is (obviously) true.

 

Flash isn't some super buggy program that will fuck shit up for you often or anything.

This, in my experience, is not true.  I haven't used Flash since college (and I dread the likely inevitable day when I do have to use it again) so maybe recent iterations haven't been as blatantly flawed, but when I go to rotate a joint, and suddenly a completely unrelated element gets flood-filled a different colour which can't be Undo'd away...that's pretty buggy.  And that wasn't an isolated incident, and I wasn't alone in encountering similar completely nonsensical errors (class and teacher included).

 

What I'm getting at is when Flash does stuff like that, that's not the animator's fault.  That's a glitch in the program and one that's very possible to go unnoticed when working with hundreds of elements.

 

EDIT: Maybe I wasn't totally clear initially; I was never trying to say that all of the animation errors in the show were Flash's fault (that'd be absurd), but certain things (like say 3-legged Cheerilee or blue-single-feather-wing Fluttershy) would not surprise me if they were.

Edited November 25, 2013 by ErBoi

[Grumpy Enchantress 587]

This is (obviously) true.

 

This, in my experience, is not true.  I haven't used Flash since college (and I dread the likely inevitable day when I do have to use it again) so maybe recent iterations haven't been as blatantly flawed, but when I go to rotate a joint, and suddenly a completely unrelated element gets flood-filled a different colour which can't be Undo'd away...that's pretty buggy.  And that wasn't an isolated incident, and I wasn't alone in encountering similar completely nonsensical errors (class and teacher included).

 

What I'm getting at is when Flash does stuff like that, that's not the animator's fault.  That's a glitch in the program and one that's very possible to go unnoticed when working with hundreds of elements.

I've been using Flash a lot lately and it works pretty good for me. The only glitch I've ever run into is that sometimes when I want to put a small line on something it will make the whole thing the color of the line but, I can always undo it and I'm not even sure if it's Flash's fault or somehow my tablet's freaking out with the color because, I never even had the problem when I was crazy enough to try and draw exclusively with a mouse. Also, sometimes I make the mistake of leaving it clicked on something when I switch colors and it turns the keyframe into just a silhouette of the drawing with the color you chose but, that's part of the design and something I'm just not personally used to and I usually notice it. Flash really doesn't have huge bugs like you're making out at all and you might have been just using a really old version or something but, I've been working with Flash for about a year now and in my experience it has almost always been my fault when something got messed up.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Grumpy Enchantress

[Anadu Kune 668]

Ok as an animator I feel can make a case or at least elaborate on why I would say the quality of the show is great. Ok so first off we need to make distinctions. You seem to use animation as a blanket term, this is not how I will use it. Animation will refer specifically to the way characters move(the timing and spacing, weight, squash and stretch ect)

Animation

An example of something that caught my attention when watching the show was the expressions and accented motions during scenes of dialog. Many cartoons during scenes of heavy talking have the character/s doing just that, talking and nothing else. When you start to look for it you will notice many cartoon characters move very little while talking. Its funny you mention anime as many are very guilty of this. MLP does a great job of keeping the character moving and feeling natural even during a lot of the dialog scenes. Even just a little accent here and there goes a huge way. In general MLP seems to have more motion than the average cartoon. Due to they way the characters are built they can afford to animated them more even in simple scenes that normally don't need any motion. 

Another thing that caught me was the use of secondary action, which is just that, an action that is secondary to the main action. The best and most common example I can give would be the movement of hair. This is frequent in the show even for very small head bobs or tilts. Secondary action is something I do see lacking in a lot of mainstream show. 

Exaggeration especially in the facial expressions is great. There are so many times in the show where just on the facial expression alone I have squeed at the cuteness, or felt the pang of sorrow, or the tingling of excitement. This is the sign of great character expression. All the character have some moment of excellent exaggerated facial and body expressions. Pinkie is the obvious example, but even a subdued character like Fluttershy has an exaggerated subdued posture and expression.  

Style and Design

With flash you work with certain restrictions and I have been very impressed with how the production team have gotten past these restrictions or even used them to their advantage. The characters designs are a great example. Due to the nature of flash and their production the best thing to do was to use the exact same body type, however they managed to keep the designs distinct and appealing. Using color and distinctive silhouette to their advantage they managed to cut production time without sacrificing quality. The show is also very good at using color, the prime example being the mane six themselves. One thing in particular I like is the line color being a darker tone of the primary body/mane color, it makes them feel more natural. 

Comparison

Comparing the overall quality of two cartoons is often difficult and in some cases perhaps even foolish. Though one can do so on the basic principals of animation. Just briefly here are a few mainstream popular cartoons Ive compared. 

Fairly Odd Parents/Butch Hartman cartoons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq2HHJv-EEA

Watching this clip one will see that this show's animation seems to have much on snappy or quick motions with a lot of holding postions. On the whole I would say there is less motion and less expression in this show as compared to MLP. 

Hey Arnold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rzTjjTzLcY

In this case the motions of the characters are pretty smooth, there some use of secondary actions as well. Im noticing however that in many places the motions lack weight or punch, in other words they are too smooth which shows a lack of proper timing or spacing. 

In general MLP due to the way its production is structured has the characters moving more which allows for more expressive performances. However when we get to shows like Adventure Time or Regular Show it becomes much harder to compare. There very well may be more scenes with stillness in those shows, but those are traded for the scenes where the animation is needed(action scenes ect). Due to differences in production MLP doesn't need to keep the characters as still, they can move the head hair and body at any time with little extra production cost. On shows like Adventure Time and Regular show there is a trade off of using that production time when need to focus on scenes where more movement and expression is present. Who is to say one is absolutely better than the other. The quality of all the shows mentioned is great but each has strengths and weaknesses.  As a flash show MLP is defiantly one of the best, the only other shows I can think of that compete are Fosters Home and El Tigre. 

As for the errors it is true that if you watch you will find them. However that is true of most shows. My favorite cartoon of all time Batman The Animated Series has a good amount of animation errors. Does that the negate the overall quality? I don't think so. 

In the end yes I think MLP deserves praise for it's quality as due the other shows mentioned. The claim of excellence in animation and production quality is not one of absolute superiority to all other shows. Just because there may be other shows with equal and greater quality doesn't mean that we shouldn't praise MLP for its great execution. 

 

Edited November 25, 2013 by Anadu Kune

[Dythe 5]

I believe its because of the smoothness of the animation, and how much motion and flow is in each action. Other shows usually use static rigs where only a few relevant parts move, but in this show, everything constantly has motion and life.

[CT-1138 3,184]

I thought the animation was decent before, but holy crap! The animation for S4 is the best I've seen yet!

[Satsuki Kiryuin 1,155]

No way.

You see, the stile of character's portrayal is the part of animation (and its quality), too.

So, forgive me, but characters in "Adventure Time" look just sloppy. Like their creators didn't even try to draw something decent. And what Lauren Faust did looks like she new exactly what she wanted and how to get it.

Style*

Also, the design of the characters has nothing to do with the animation. That's just character design. I don't really see any facts that support your point, either. I'll just guess you're angry because I made points about your pone show. (I never stated I watched Adventure Time or Gravity Falls, but I have seen some examples of the animation, and it looks just as smooth and fluent as MLP FiM's animation quality.).

[Hansel 1,512]

My two pennies:

 

Before I get into my own opinion, I have a bit of a pet peeve when it comes to discussing the quality of animation, and it doesn't just apply to when people talk about MLP. This is what I mean:

 

"I love the animation for MLP, the characters look so awesome, and the colours are amazing."

 

Guys, please, stop. Animation and character designs/art work is NOT the same thing. AT ALL. I can't stress this enough. You can't talk about how good or how bad the animation quality is by simply mentioning the design work. The designs can of course influence the animation, but they're not the same thing. People use this argument all the time to suggest that on-going animes have better animation then on-going cartoons, and it simply isn't true. In fact, the animation quality in anime is often worse then the animation in Western cartoons.

 

And now to answer the OP. The animation quality for MLP is far from the best, I completely agree, however, for an on-going television cartoon, where animators often cut corners to meet deadlines and budgets, the animation in MLP has some of the best I've seen in a VERY long time.

Most cartoons often have to cut corners by animating on 2's instead of 1's, resulting in less fluid animation. MLP gets around this by taking advantage of the symbol feature in Flash. More and more cartoons are starting to do this, but MLP uses this feature beautifully, and really pushes the technique to create some fantastic TV animation. We've seen other cartoons like Wakfu use this technique very well before, but MLP is more consistent at keeping the animation at a high quality.

 

There have been some technical glitches and such, but that's bound to happen when you're using a more technical-based method of animating as opposed to traditional cell animation, and because it's a TV production, they're bound to let a few things slip.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Hansel

[Fluttershyfan94 5,744]

I world say that they are very good, I have watched a lot of cartoons and my little pony definitely has very good animation.

 

You can not forget that first, it's a kids show for girls. Considering that the animation are very good, of course you can find better animations but my little pony definitely has very good animation. They're very smooth and life like, so compared to many kids shows it's very good and to other animated material it's a high quality show. The animations have only improved, so even though some might be exaggerating I would still say, yes the animation is really that good in my opinion.

[Satsuki Kiryuin 1,155]

Guys, please, stop. Animation and character designs/art work is NOT the same thing. AT ALL. I can't stress this enough. You can't talk about how good or how bad the animation quality is by simply mentioning the design work. The designs can of course influence the animation, but they're not the same thing. People use this argument all the time to suggest that on-going animes have better animation then on-going cartoons, and it simply isn't true. In fact, the animation quality in anime is often worse then the animation in Western cartoons.

My hero. <3 

I don't really understand why people take design as quality of animation. Animation is made for making things seem alive, after all. I guess it's just that people really miss the point of what animation quality is when there are so many aspects to an Animated TV Show.

[Seaweed-Headed Dragon 359]

I feel that the animation hasn't really improved but just stayed the same. Maybe there's a little bit of a difference in the quality but overall, I think it's the same. However, maybe now the animators are paying more attention to detail so that there are less animation errors. I'm not sure but i think that the animations have not really changed

[ErBoi 501]

My hero. <3 

I don't really understand why people take design as quality of animation. Animation is made for making things seem alive, after all. I guess it's just that people really miss the point of what animation quality is when there are so many aspects to an Animated TV Show.

I have a friend who misuses 'animation' just to get on my nerves.  Most recently when looking at comics at Chapters, he said something to the effect of, "I like the animation in this one."

[Hansel 1,512]

My hero. <3 

I don't really understand why people take design as quality of animation. Animation is made for making things seem alive, after all. I guess it's just that people really miss the point of what animation quality is when there are so many aspects to an Animated TV Show.

 

 

It happens a lot when people compare an anime to a cartoon because the designs might be more complex or have more detail. But the anime show in question is animated on like, 3's, character's in the background don't even move, and half the time the main characters hardly move either. Also, I think the only anime I've seen so far that even attempts lip syncing is Akria. (I think this is because Japanese productions record the dialogue after they've animated it, unlike in the West where it's done the other way around.)

That's not to say that there isn't anime with great animation, (like the aforementioned Akira or Ghibli films), but people compare them to on-going Western cartoons to support their arguments, which doesn't even make sense because you're taking a stand-alone film and comparing to an on-going television production. Take any Ghibli film and compare it to, say, a Disney or a Dreamworks film, and more often then not, the animation quality the Ghibli film won't even be half as good. 

 

It's even more frustrating when people look at character designs of an up-coming show that has't even aired, and say that they don't like the animation.

You haven't even seen it yet... 

 

 

/rant of doom

 

 

 

I have a friend who misuses 'animation' just to get on my nerves.   Most recently when looking at comics at Chapters, he said something to the effect of, "I like the animation in this one."

 

Ewwwww... 

Edited November 27, 2013 by Hansel

[John 793]

Technically, what the animators use to create the animation isn't the most "top notch" program.  The reason why the animation is so good, however, is because the animators are REALLY good at.. well.. animating!  Just look at facial expressions throughout the show, as well as the way in which the characters interact with the environment.  What makes an animator good is being able to make something "come to life" regardless of the program they use.  A truly skilled animator can take flash and create masterpieces.

[epzik8 92]

I think the animation is excellent, and it goes very well with the personalities of the characters. The animation style is what really got me into the show.

[FNGRpony 658]

to me animation quality is like a good ref,

 

if everyone is doing their job you don't notice it.  Or rather your not suppose to.  Kinda like buying a game for graphics,

if you have time to notice how awesome the animation is,

there's a chance (a chance)

there's not anything really engaging going on in the episode.

 

like castlemania.

[Static Electricity 729]

The animation is considered good, mostly because of all the shit Flash has given us in the past. That's not to say the animation isn't good, but it's not the best animation EVAR!

So, forgive me, but characters in "Adventure Time" look just sloppy. Like their creators didn't even try to draw something decent.

That is the style of the series, all noodly and jointless. It might not be aesthetically pleasing for all but that is the style.

[MMFAN 198]

It could be case that Jan Animations brought up a while back. where it takes literally days just to do backgrounds. It's because Flash is so tedious to work in and to make something that's amazing is a feat by itself.

[MLP Moth 224]

Its good but not great. Its good to the point where i could watch the show and enjoy it

[Scootalove 10,689]

The animation has improved from the past seasons to now, where it just looks really spectacular. Sure, it has some animation errors but it is still very impressive animation. At least it has animation that will improve as time goes on, unlike the horrendous Johnny Test animation.

[Dsanders 5,748]

I don't know too much about how animation, its techniques and effects, and how the programs used(in this case Flash) work. But judging by seeing how all the episodes, all the characters, scenes, actions, expressions, and certain effects have played over the course of the series, I'd say it is of pretty good quality.

 

Sure it may not seem anything like some of the other good shows out there that have the animators use more advanced programs and complex and rather expensive techniques. But nonetheless, you can still see the quality amount of time and effort put into making the characters and the entire continuity of the show; especially if you take some of the more recent s4 episodes into account.

 

Plus, it is easy to see how greatly the animators have improved since the very first pilot episode.

 

Regardless of the countless errors, the shitty Flash, and simplistic characteristics that the show encompasses in its design and animation, the animators make it work! Regardless of its seemingly child's play-esque appearance, the effort and immense work put into all the animation, especially as of recently(in regards to season 4's episode thus far), can clearly be seen.

 

I am in no way saying that it is the best animation ever, but what I am saying is that the animators are quite talented and are able to utilize their limited paraphernalia with exceptional expertise.