Daring Don't. My accidental analysis.

[Duskrunner 22]

This ever happen to you? You're watching an analysis video and you comment to the creater and find out, "wow, I just wrote a counter-analysis of my own." Yup, just did that.
So, rather than just leave it on Youtube where it'll suffer from 'Too long didn't read" I thought I'd post it here to suffer from "Too long didn't read"

 

So I'm watching Tommy Oliver's newest video and I'm yelling at my screen (not really).

Here's what came out.

0- Tenochtitlan Basin, Amulet of Atonement, Quetzalcoatl Empress, Radiant Shield of Razdon, Rings of Scorchero. Talk about dense storytelling.
Apparently ancient Mexico exists in Equestria, analogous to places like Trottingham and Saddle Arabia, and if we follow Pinkie's red stripe which started in Ponyville (little treehouse and the town hall doodles are obvious) they followed the train north, then pretty far west before crossing some mountain range and ending up in another plains / forest environment.
According to this map
http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/File:Map_of_Equestria_online_version_2012-08.jpg
which matches the episode map perfectly, the gang went up to Canterlot, followed the trail between Cloudsdale and the Unicorn Range, and stopped after taking the fork that led to The Frozen North and the Crystal Empire where they crossed the mountains. Baring map alterations Daring's home and the Tenochtitlan Basin lie somewhere between Vanhoover and Galloping Gorge.

 

moving on to my reactions more or less as Tommy wrote about them:

1- "Daring Do writes self-insertion fiction."
If the stories are true, even with embellishment greater than Shining Armor in comic 11-12, then it's not self-insertion fiction it's an autobiography. Answering 'Why?' probably has the most obvious answer: Daring Do isn't an archaeologist as much as she is a professional heroine and she writes the books because she's gotta have a job that pays in bits too.

2- Daring gave the widdle kitty a black eye rofl.

3- Henchponies are now cannon. For money and as native cults. This will either change perception of Equestria as a whole, ponies beyond Equestria's borders (it's debatable because we have no idea how far they had to travel from Daring Do's house), or possibly just stallions in general. This is potentially a major world-building change because it speaks to the nature of ponies. in the past we could excuse the idea of a few bad ponies (Nightmare Moon, King Sombra) a few jerks (Flim & Flam, Blueblood, Trixie, Diamond Tiara and the pony who sold Trixie the Alicorn Amulet) and a few dumb ponies too (Snips and Snails) but our impression of Equestria remained intact because they were individual exceptions.
I'm echoing an old idea of one of my favorite Deviant artists, Nimaru.
http://nimaru.deviantart.com/art/Don-t-Be-Cruel-294574479
Normally I wouldn't make too much out of this but when the only examples of Stallions en masse were Royal Guards a change like this does push FiM closer to the real world instead of the idealized world we had.
(Credit to http://mlpforums.com/user/19674-fngrpony/ His henchmen thread touched base on all of this before I did)

4- "We could have used a real character to have this lesson with Dash, like Spitfire."
Spitfire wouldn't work. The Wonderbolts have already been lowered from their original pedestal in 'Wonderbolt Academy'. That's now the example of maturing past your obsession with role-models in an adult manner. "Daring Don't" is the example of having the ground taken out from under you.

I can't help but feel Tommy's frutration comes from the fact that this nerfs Celestia more than it affects Dash, but that's #6.

5- The henchponies were spotted by Pinkie as they entered so who smashed the cottage? Daring's reaction to the mane6 is so mild home invasion must be pretty common for her. Because she's an author or because she's an adventurer? That answer is probably on a case by case basis.

6- The limits of Celestia's power are being expanded on. The rings of Scorchero make the sun hotter and it fits because Celestia didn't create the sun, she just moves it.
Further, If all of Daring Do's book are based on real adventures it also means that Celestia doesn't or can't know about and respond to every threat to Equestria directly, not even the huge ones. Because the series has begun the trend disproving the idea that Celestia and Luna are gods this is fitting.

7- Twilight's quote after Daring Do gives chase annoyed me. "We're out of our league"??
Ahuizotl's an ordinary non-pony monster/villain with a small army of thugs and felines and a fondness for death traps and magical artifacts. Twilight's comment would feel appropriate if it were Season 1 Twilight but this is Season 4 and she's an Alicorn princess now with Nightmare Moon, Discord, changelings etc under her belt. And if that weren't enough she HAS the research on the bad guy ala Nightmare Moon (heck, even more than Nightmare Moon- 1 pony tale vs the entire Daring Do series).
This should've been an ordinary adventure for them. The team was nerfed for this episode, in abilities and personality.

My conclusion- I didn't hate the episode but its consequences for the world-building are larger than anything else that's come before, including Equestria Girls.
Some of those decisions might put off the fandom (not too bad a thing usually) but others have the potential to contradict what's been built before.
The episode is consistent with the micro-rebooting of S4 and the general shift away from absolute good/evil stories in the adventure arcs to grayer areas with shadier, baser villains.

Thanks for reading everypony, super big thanks to the content-creaters who really moved me to get off my rump and write and please, if you don't already follow Tommy oliver aka Bronycurious, Nimaru and everyone else cited I hope you'll give them a chance.

 

-Duskrunner

Edited December 8, 2013 by Duskrunner

[Declen 118]

I must say, I completely agree with Tommy Oliver on this one.

This episode seems to be bad written and unnecessery, and ruins much more of general concepts of MLP:FiM than brings to it.

 

When I watched this episode, I waited for another plot twist: the whole thing would be a live-RPG in wich A.K. Yearling, "henchponies" and Ahuizotl participate altogether. And A.K. Yearling would novelize afterwards it to get money for further games.

That would be funny.

 

Also:

 

As it turned out, to let Rainbow Dash help Daring Do and proof to herself that she no less awesome than her idol. Well, I guess, it is a good lesson... wait a minute!!! Since when did Dashie even had that issue?!! IDK, maybe I was more stupid today, than usual, but I didn't see it was established. All I noticed, Dashie started to talk to herself and punch her face for some reason. Last time somepony behaved that way it ment a serious mental disorder. So, it just left me confused: did Rainbow Dash get crazy?

 

 

1- "Daring Do writes self-insertion fiction."

Technically, you're right, but it doesn't really change anything.

 

3- Henchponies are now cannon.

Paparazzi became cannon long ago. And they aren't really better than henchmen.

 

4- "We could have used a real character to have this lesson with Dash, like Spitfire." Spitfire wouldn't work.

I fail to see why it was needed in the first place. And your mention of "Wonderbolt Academy" reminded me that we've already been there.

 

6- The limits of Celestia's power are being expanded on.

That's my biggest problem with the whole thing. It contradicts the cannon. Although it can be explained like that ritual wouldnt make the sun hotter but instead create some sort of lens to focus the light of sun at sertain area and overhit it.

 

7- Twilight's quote after Daring Do gives chase annoyed me. "We're out of our league"??

Another example that Dave Polsky just doesn't give a flying frak about continuity Edited December 8, 2013 by Declen

[Nature's Spell 526]

Polsky is the issue I think although he told Digi that some of the issues with his episodes came from above his level. It's possible but I don't buy it. I think he just doesn't get the show or characters. We need Larson back.

 

I've just decided to put this episode on my "ignore list" and move on. Hopefully future episodes will be better in my estimation.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Nature's Spell

[Noodles 109]

 

 

That's my biggest problem with the whole thing. It contradicts the cannon. Although it can be explained like that ritual wouldnt make the sun hotter but instead create some sort of lens to focus the light of sun at sertain area and overhit it.

ok how dose this contradict cannon?

[Declen 118]

 

 

ok how dose this contradict cannon?

How it doesn't contradict the cannon?

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,695]

How dose ppl not be abel 2 spell canon? 

 

 

Anyway. Nature's Spell is correct. Mr. Polsky either doesn't get it, or doesn't care about continuity within his own episodes, much less with the series at large. He seems like more or less a typical cartoon writer, in a series that needs better than typical. It was a fun episode and all, but MLP is a smart cartoon where certain things have to make sense. And too many things in his episodes don't.

[Scootalove 10,689]

It was a fun episode but, writers need to learn when continuity is needed and when it's not needed. Continuity and making sense helps people understand that it exists for a reason.

[Winona the Dog 1,984]

I feel that most people (including myself) may be a tad bit hard on the new season, but that's only natural as the season goes on; our expectation get high. That and the fact things this time are going to be a bit different and therefore the formula of the show as changed and we haven't really adjusted to it.

 

This episode just didn't feel natural and that's why Tommy Oliver kind of bashed on it.

[Noodles 109]

 

 

Noodles, on 08 Dec 2013 - 11:20 AM, said: ok how dose this contradict cannon? How it doesn't contradict the cannon?

 

again with your non answer answers.

[IlikeBoris 13]

I don't get how 8 centuries of unrelenting heat could be equal to affecting the sun.  It could be the temple generating heat, affecting the weather patterns so that they never get a cold front or rain...  (Golden Coins had unbearable heat because of the lack of rain, and I'm convinced that all cold weather in the United States comes from Canada.)

[Noodles 109]

 

 

I don't get how 8 centuries of unrelenting heat could be equal to affecting the sun. It could be the temple generating heat, affecting the weather patterns so that they never get a cold front or rain... (Golden Coins had unbearable heat because of the lack of rain, and I'm convinced that all cold weather in the United States comes from Canada.)

 

Kind of implied as the showed the sun in the climax of the fight. but you do have a good point

[FNGRpony 658]

Well,

I'm gonna shoot straight with this one.  I love tommy oliver up and down, and he's entitled to his views.

 

but this is the same guy who defended a canterlot wedding.

I'll say that again, he thought a canterlot wedding was to hot to trot.

 

and some how this isn't up to par.  Mr Oliver, perhaps your over worked ^^.

 

But i liked this episode.

Is it oringal?  Course not.

 

it's a rip on indian jones.

and keep in mind

that's a movie that nuked a fridge.

see this unlike castlemania went for the magical amount of dumb, in my view.  it was enjoyable.

 

was there stupid crap in the fact the bad guy wanted the son to be hotter...

because......

because....

 

because?

 

yeah.  I liked we got henchmen.  i liked we got action.  I got we had villians trying to stab and in effect kill the main cast.

we got new ground rules on what's getting into mlp.

 

The villain in this episode is fun.

the sub boss in this episode is fun.

 

i could go on about how they didn't need all of the main six and

AJ, twilight and dash would have been fine for the adventure back of the episode,

 

as rarity, flutter shy, and pinkie pie were kinda just there at that point,

and they were shoe horned into that part of the episode.

 

we got action and no songs ^^.  lifes good.

 

 

and don't say bad rip on fanficton.

 

please stop insulting fanfic writers by comparing them to the SPeild berg.

Edited December 9, 2013 by FNGRpony

[SasQ 1,376]

Hmm... Although I cannot agree with Tommy Oliver and when I watched his review I raged with fire, I cannot agree with the OP's and others' critique either, because I didn't see this episode as unnecessary nor badly written nor even that Dave Polsky doesn't get the MLP canon or has some problems with continuity. For me it's the very opposite.

First, the continuity: Don't you remember that Mane Six relinquished the Elements of Harmony in Season 4's opener? Now they don't have their "superpowers" at hand, so Twilight's concerns about Ahuizotl being way over their heads was pretty well justified. Now they have to deal without the Elements, so they need to find some other ways to perform their heroic tasks. And they do, nevertheless, which I very enjoyed.

Also the episode is not unnecessary at all. I'd even say it's very necessary: I noticed some pattern about Season 4's first few episodes, a common theme behind them, and recently I started a whole new thread about this particular issue. These episodes seem to me to be very well-planned, all in the same goal: to convince us that Mane Six could be no less powerful without the Elements of Harmony, because their power lays not in the Elements, but in their team work and friendship and other virtues they have. The true Elements in them.

I also very enjoyed the idea for the storyline of this episode, especially that I once had a very similar idea. And it was very exciting for me to be able to see it on screen, in the actual show. This episode is actually on my list of favorite episodes from the entire series, from the world-building perspective, character's arc perspective, adventure & action perspective, moral / philosophical perspective and much more.

I think that Dave Polsky may have a bad fame in the fandom not because he writes bad episodes (which isn't true at all), but because they are often misunderstood. Such was the case with "Feeling Pinkie Keen", which has been highly criticized by the fans for putting faith (and even religion -- I don't know where did they get this idea from) over science and reason and punishing Twilight for her trials to understand, which, again, wasn't true at all. I described my views on that matter here. Same was with the episode about reforming Discord. Dave Polsky seems to have a tendency to touch more deeper philosophical questions in his episodes, which sometimes are too deep to some fans to spot, but believe me, "there's more going on than meets the eye", quoting directly from his last episode 

Edited December 10, 2013 by SasQ

[Duskrunner 22]

I don't get how 8 centuries of unrelenting heat could be equal to affecting the sun.  It could be the temple generating heat, affecting the weather patterns so that they never get a cold front or rain...  (Golden Coins had unbearable heat because of the lack of rain, and I'm convinced that all cold weather in the United States comes from Canada.)

 

 

Kind of implied as the showed the sun in the climax of the fight. but you do have a good point

 

You know what, you guys are totally right and at this point I don't know if it's debate, speculation or just plain inference.

 

The Rings are magical and have a great power and their removal creates the typical Dark Tower within the Temple of Talicon self-destruct.  What they do is hard to guess:

Using common sense based on the episode comments we assume that the rings will either affect the sun directly - an Equestria-wide event; or the rings will create something like a magical barrier -presumably similar to the Radiant Shield of Razdon - that will make the sun's heat worse within the Tenochtitlan Basin.

 

Both are plausable and the debate will probably end there until we get another author tweet (and by the way, it's awesome how many we get of those as a fandom).

Personally, I was originally of a mind that the rings would affect the sun itself buuuuuut it would take a terrible amount of magic to do something that is guaranteed to last 800 years according to prophecy. And prophecy has a good record in-show so far.

The rings themselves are pretty impressive: only the last and heaviest ring is seen to crumble after Dash and Do remove it, presumably because the enchantment magic was consumed during the ritual and that made both the rings and the fortress / temple crumble.

800 years is pretty similar to 1000 years, and it took the Elements of Harmony to alter (seal) an immense power (Nightmare Moon) for that long a time. Pre-Season 4 I would have doubted a bunch of rings had the power to affect something to the same degree as the Elements. Some people still will. With the revelation of the Tree of Harmony however I'm inclined to think that maybe other similar incredible sources of magic exist in-world and will be encountered. I haven't head-canoned this idea though so I'm happy to discard the assumption as the season progresses.

 

What do you guys think?

 

[FNGRpony 658]

 

I'm bucking done!  i'm finally bucking done.  *Cries*

 

oh yeah i did a review for daring do.

Edited December 10, 2013 by FNGRpony

[nathanthemoldy 16]

Old thread is old, but in those real life Daring Do books, it's explained that Ahuizotl was trying to use the rings to get rid of that shield because the Amulet is dispelled by it. Ahuizotl apparently didn't sought control first, the Empress did. And that "Quetzalcoatl" Empress, is not Queztalcoatl at all. It's spelled Ketzkewtl Empress.