Pinkie Pie in Filly Vanilli

[GreyScholar 1,584]

My problem with Filli Vanilli was how unbelievably extreme Fluttershy stage fright was and fear of singing in front of others, completely unjustified I feel based on past episodes such as Green Isn't Your Color, May the Best Pet Win, and Hearth's Warming Eve to name a few. Fluttershy has song many times in front of others, she has been on stage to perform in front of others and while she was nervous it was not cripplingly so. More she was a model who walked down the stage without freaking out though she did hate being famous and having ponies chase her around Ponyville. Most importantly, her friends have hear her sing and never did she show a fear of singing!

 

Compared to that mountain, Pinkie Pie's behavior was a mere mole hill.

Edited June 30, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[OptimisticNeighsayer 478]

 

 

she has been on stage to perform in front of others and while she was nervous it was not cripplingly so.

The fact that Fluttershy had to be forced on stage in "Hearth's Warming Eve" indicates to me that she was more than just nervous.

 

 

 

More she was a model who walked down the stage without freaking out though she did hate being famous and having ponies chase her around Ponyville.

Maybe that contributed to her more extreme fear later on?

 

 

 

Most importantly, her friends have hear her sing and never did she show a fear of singing!

For "May the Best Pet Win", it's not clear that the "Find a Pet" song is actually supposed to be interpreted as the characters actually singing.  For "Hearth's Warming Eve" it's a bit of a different story and you may have a case for that.

 

 

 

Compared to that mountain, Pinkie Pie's behavior was a mere mole hill.

No.  Ethically questionable behavior, for a show like this, is more of a problem than continuity errors. 

[DND 2,355]

For the same reason everyone hates Gilda.

She made Fluttershy cry.

 

This is why I don't really prefer the Fluttershy fandom too much. I've met some pretty hostile fans TBH.

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,839]

This is much more than just "making Fluttershy cry". She was acting as if she had absolutely no social skills, and the way she played directly to Fluttershy's known character flaw casts her in an extremely negative light that is just beyond her character. That's not even the worst part.

 

She is repeatedly shut up by her friends throughout the episode, and this has no effect on her behavior for the duration. We would expect these characters to learn from these kinds of situations and change their behavior accordingly, not needing to have the lesson beaten into them.

 

What I can't wrap my head around is the fact that this came right after "Pinkie Pride", and from the same writer, too. It has been a constant flaw in Season 4's weaker outings to treat characters as plot devices and to play certain situations up for comedy when they should have been taken seriously. Just before this, we saw a Pinkie that knew to restrain herself when she knew she was hurting rather than helping a friend.

 

This should've been dampened by having Pinkie Pie learn her lesson after maybe one minor out of character moment. But for it to be a constant running gag where a fully-realized character is treated as a comic device at another's misfortune is wrong, and the writing staff should really take a look at this one next time.

 

 

 

Character flaws are one thing, and being out of character is another thing entirely. Pinkie Pie being stubborn and inflexible when she forgets one lesson she learned was Season 1 stuff that she's over by now, as demonstrated in "Pinkie Pride".

 

Don't compare an episode from a TV show to an event in real life. This episode is one event, edited together to have a beginning, middle, and end. Real life is a much longer and less-clear process. Of course you'll get 22 minutes of out-of-character stuff if you did do that.

 

This was not a few seconds. This is an entire episode.

 

For one character to act insufferably condescending in a show for kids and to get stuck in that cycle without due reparation, especially when this character is supposed to be a protagonist, is concerning considering the normal style of the show.

 

Sure, it's over, and the episode is out. There's nothing that can be done except to bring it to attention so that this doesn't happen again.

Oh-no-no-no-no. My post was not for you to debate,but to dwell on. 

 

I do not care about your overly analytical look at the situation. My point was to stop making post like the one you just made,because Pinkie Pie is ultimately allowed to not be perfect every sec of her onscreen existance,and not to mention your over reaction and those of many others to the scene and beyond is just as overly dramatic and ridiculous as Fluttershy's. 

 

Also characters are allowed to forget their 'lessons' from previous episodes as the plot(as in this scene) demands it,they only have 22min so owell if someone needs to forget a previous lesson to advance the plot,thats just how the cookie crumbles.

 

im not going to touch on this stupid 'she was OOC' because apparently we are the writers,and we are being payed by DHX to write the character to our liking and have them never 'OOC',not even for a few secs or a 'episode' in a consistent manner..oh wait.

 

Fluttershy's reaction to Pinkie is just as dramatic as everyone who wants to write a long essay about how 'OOC' Pinkie Pie was in one fucking episode.

 

Again,get over it lol.

 

(im not going to go back in forth in a discussion that i feel is stupid and blown out of proportion to begin with,respond if you want,but know i don't give a damn)

[GreyScholar 1,584]

The fact that Fluttershy had to be forced on stage in "Hearth's Warming Eve" indicates to me that she was more than just nervous.

 

 

Maybe that contributed to her more extreme fear later on?

 

 

For "May the Best Pet Win", it's not clear that the "Find a Pet" song is actually supposed to be interpreted as the characters actually singing.  For "Hearth's Warming Eve" it's a bit of a different story and you may have a case for that.

 

 

No.  Ethically questionable behavior, for a show like this, is more of a problem than continuity errors.

 

Fluttershy did need to be forced on stage, and that wouldn't change the fact she played her part with a hitch.

 

That would contribute more to the fear of being a celebrity or famous not being on stage. Also, has nothing to do with singing.

 

The way I look at it if other charaters react to the singing and join it, the singing is actually happening. I actually find it strange how resist some fans are to the idea of the characters actually singing and not being merely for the benefit to the veiwers.

 

Of note though is that Pinkie's 'misbehavior' would have likely not happened if Fluttershy's fear was of a more realistic degree.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

Oh-no-no-no-no. My post was not for you to debate,but to dwell on. 

 

I do not care about your overly analytical look at the situation. My point was to stop making post like the one you just made,because Pinkie Pie is ultimately allowed to not be perfect every sec of her onscreen existance,and not to mention your over reaction and those of many others to the scene and beyond is just as overly dramatic and ridiculous as Fluttershy's. 

 

Also characters are allowed to forget their 'lessons' from previous episodes as the plot(as in this scene) demands it,they only have 22min so owell if someone needs to forget a previous lesson to advance the plot,thats just how the cookie crumbles.

 

im not going to touch on this stupid 'she was OOC' because apparently we are the writers,and we are being payed by DHX to write the character to our liking and have them never 'OOC',not even for a few secs or a 'episode' in a consistent manner..oh wait.

 

Fluttershy's reaction to Pinkie is just as dramatic as everyone who wants to write a long essay about how 'OOC' Pinkie Pie was in one fucking episode.

 

Again,get over it lol.

 

(im not going to go back in forth in a discussion that i feel is stupid and blown out of proportion to begin with,respond if you want,but know i don't give a damn)

You're in a public forum. You put posts out. People will do what they want with them. You cannot stop it unless you are a mod or on a private forum. Telling us to stop has no effect.

 

Analysts exist and there's a damn good reason for it. Normally, this is where I'd tell you to read something like this: http://mlpforums.com/blog/91/entry-10193-its-for-kidslittle-girls-is-a-stupid-excuse/ , but since you're so willing to shut yourself off from certain realities and play them all off as "overreacting"...

 

Edited June 30, 2014 by Wind Chaser

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,839]

You're in a public forum. You put posts out. People will do what they want with them. You cannot stop it unless you are a mod or on a private forum. Analysts exist and there's a damn good reason for it. Normally, this is where I'd tell you to read something like this: http://mlpforums.com/blog/91/entry-10193-its-for-kidslittle-girls-is-a-stupid-excuse/ , but since you're so willing to shut yourself off from certain realities and play them all off as "overreacting"...

 

Guess who din't read. I din't. 

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

Guess who din't read. I din't. 

You apparently cared enough to quote my post. How nice of you.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Wind Chaser

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,839]

You apparently cared enough to quote my post. How nice of you.

Im very nice huh,in fact im going to brohoof all the post you make cuz im so nice!

 

I don't want to be a total jackass!

 

[OptimisticNeighsayer 478]

Fluttershy did need to be forced on stage, and that wouldn't change the fact she played her part with a hitch.

So you admit there were some problems? (I assume you meant "without a hitch".)

 

That still doesn't change the fact that had the others not forced her on, she would still be cowering in that box.  Fluttershy, besides having the stage fright, is still very deferential when it comes to other ponies.  In "Filli Vanilli" everything was entirely voluntary.

 

 

 

That would contribute more to the fear of being a celebrity or famous not being on stage. Also, has nothing to do with singing.

Her condition of being famous was dependent on her being on stage modelling.  Also, her stage fright is not just related to her singing.  She just didn't like eyes being on her.

 

Further, fears can have irrational non sequitor triggers like that, hey, they often do.  I'm afraid of any sort of dog, although the only thing I really am afraid of is that of being jumped on without my consent as that triggered my fear.  Likewise, Fluttershy's stage fright in her situation can be considered an consequence of her anxiety of having fans fawning all over her, and that was clearly demonstrated in the episode.

 

 

 

The way I look at it if other charaters react to the singing and join it, the singing is actually happening. I actually find it strange how resist some fans are to the idea of the characters actually singing and not being merely for the benefit to the veiwers.

There are many counterexamples to this claim.  Opera is a great one-- you wouldn't actually believe that Gilda from Rigoletto, for instance, would actually be able to sing extremely high notes after being fatally stabbed and shoved into a sack?

 

Even if we grant that opera is, well, opera, would you say that if there was a scene where Rainbow Dash was singing in the shower and nopony heard her or commented on it, it really didn't happen?  That seems absurd considering how often that happens in real life.

 

This idea just seems to defy common sense.  Do you claim that this is special to the pony's culture, and if so, how?

Edited June 30, 2014 by OptimisticNeighsayer

[Snow Frostflame 3,568]

I don't I love Pinkies humor in all episodes including that one

[SweetJeans88 408]

i dont believe Pinkie was being intentionally mean.  She was however, very negligent and inconsiderate.  i dont think it makes her a bad friend, but i do think they missed an opportunity for a secondary lesson there.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@OptimisticNeighsayer,

No, dang it. Stupid phone!

----------

I meant to post that she did not need to be forced on stage and while she was nervous when she got onto the stage she played her part without a hitch.

 

Yet the problem was with ponies not leaving her alone, while she did not enjoy being a model she showed no greatly noticable stage fright when actually on the walk way. Sure she may have been shy and nervious but it was nowhere near crippling like in Filli Vanilli.

 

I believe Giggle at the Ghostie happened, it was commented on by Twilight. I believe Winter Wrap Up and Raise that Barn happened, as per the idea that ponies may like singing as they work. I believe even May the Best Pet Win and So Many Wonders happened. I definitely feel that a True True Friend was actually sang. I see no reason why pony culture could not allow for ponies liking to sing.

 

But to go along with Fires of Friendship/Circle of Friends song, Fluttershy was willing and perfectly fine with singing the CMC a lullaby. My point is even if you can deny many song two where Fluttershy sings in front of others without issue is more then enough to call out the episode for completely exaggerating a character trait for humor or drama when there is not enough justification for it. This is actually why I dislike Lesson Zero...

Edited June 30, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Frosty Nerd 833]

She was insensitive to Fluttershy's feelings. Pinkie is good at being a random extroverted party animal who uses her actions to make ponies smile, but she has difficulty using words to comfort somepony else. She has a hard time showing intimacy with feelings. I'm not hating on Pinkie Pie. I like her. She's just not perfect.

[Ianpiersonjdavis 512]

 

 

For the same reason everyone hates Gilda. She made Fluttershy cry.

 

 

It's interesting that Discord seems to be immune to this, though...

[GrauWitz 1,010]

I blame poor writing for Pinkie Pie being utterly stupid in Filli Vanilli. It's scenes like this that make me hate Pinkie. She made Fluttershy cry! That makes me angry! And when I get angry, Mr. Tibblesworth gets upset! And when Mr. Tibblesworth gets upset, people DIE!

[Pinklady 346]

I was surprised to see all those negative reactions towards Pinkie.
That Fluttershy cried because of some well meant remarks of Pinkie Pie says more about Fluttershy than Pinkie Pie.

If Pinkie Pie really is her best friend, she should know her better than that and knowing Pinkie Pie was just trying to help her (in her own Pinkie way).

[Abia 258]

Pinkie Pie was not being malicious in “Filli Vanilli”. This is a common misconception I see almost everywhere. I’ve also heard a lot of complaints about Pinkie Pie being a jerk in season four, something I have not noticed— but besides that, the only complaint I have heard to support Pinkie being worst pony in season four is her behavior in “Filli Vanilli”. Even if her behavior here was inexcusable— which I don’t think it was— does it really warrant such a fall to her reputation for an entire season? Or are there other complaints I’m just not seeing?
But more on to the topic I’d like to discuss: her behavior, specifically in “Filli Vanilli”, and my defense of it.
Pinkie Pie has poor control over her impulses. Most of what she does is on a whim, and not much prevents her from doing anything. She doesn’t think things through, and her dialogue often spirals, as it did in this episode.
Think of the Mirror Pinkies in “Too Many Pinkie Pies”. These ponies were still Pinkie Pie at her core: fun-loving, party-seeking, and wanting to make others smile. However, they have not learned the lessons that our Pinkie has: they don’t know the names of their friends, they don’t know they’re being insensitive. They’re simply oblivious.
And this is, I think, what Pinkie Pie essentially is. She cares so much about others that she does anything she can to make them smile, even if it’s something they don’t want. Compare it to Spike in “Spike At Your Service”— Spike places his value upon how well he obeys his personal code, and so he does all he can to repay a pony who saved his life. Pinkie places her value upon how happy she makes others, so she does all she can to make them smile. Neither of their attempts are entirely appreciated.
Spike is young and has few experiences, which is why he did not understand that AJ did not want his help. Pinkie Pie— the real Pinkie Pie— recognized that AJ’s barn raising needed focus and that Rainbow Dash didn’t want to splash around and go crazy. Her past experiences let her control her original desire to party and have fun so that she could spend time with her friends, even if they didn’t want exactly what she did. The mirror Pinkies did not have these experiences and so did what they originally wanted to— their idea of fun, which they assumed everyone would enjoy.
In “Filli Vanilli”, Pinkie Pie does not display the same knowledge that prevented her from splashing around while Rainbow Dash tried to sleep. She lacks tact, but that does not mean her actions are full of malic.
When Pinkie Pie tries to encourage Fluttershy in “Filli Vanilli”, she is going entirely on an impulse; she starts out with a good point— you were great, Fluttershy— and just goes off with it. She doesn’t realize what she’s doing. Pinkie doesn’t realize that she’s upsetting Fluttershy at all. In fact, she thinks she’s paying Fluttershy a compliment, and doing nothing other that.
This is likely what a Mirror Pinkie would do: as they do not know Fluttershy well, they don’t know how shy she is, nor that a compliment like that would upset her rather than encourage her. Pinkie is normally pretty sensitive to Fluttershy: in “Griffon the Brush Off”, she was the one to stop Rainbow Dash from pranking Fluttershy, as she knew it would scare and upset her.
So why doesn’t Pinkie Pie show this same sensitivity in “Filli Vanilli”? I… honestly don’t know. I attribute it to a lapse in judgement. She isn’t being malicious, she isn’t being mean, she’s just being Pinkie. And Pinkie Pie tends to get carried away when it comes to talking. She just doesn’t know when to stop. In “The Last Roundup”, Pinkie Pie isn’t actually trying to annoy Applejack. She’s just being herself, and she happens to be a very chatty self! She gets carried away talking about cherries, and also gets carried away talking about performance. Did she notice that Applejack was getting annoyed? No. She didn’t know that she was being used as a weapon. The mane six likely just told her to go talk to Applejack. And… that’s what she did. This time, she was trying to just talk to Fluttershy. She tried to support her, and didn’t realize she was getting out of handhoof. If the case should be made that “Pinkie Pie should’ve realized that Fluttershy was crying”, AJ also makes it pretty damn clear that she’s annoyed. She sets down her basket of cherries and yells loudly to make it stop.
If Pinkie Pie didn’t notice that, there’s no way she would notice Fluttershy quietly crying. Pinkie is surprised at Fluttershy’s running away. She doesn’t really know she’s done anything to provoke it. Pinkie Pie believes that all she said was “you were great”.

In conclusion, while I agree that Pinkie Pie was being insenitive in “Filli Vanilli”, I don’t think she was being at all malicious, nor was she being out of character.

[Thrashy 2,800]

Pretty much in line with the defense I've made of her behavior back when the episode first aired.

 

Honestly, Pinkie's more than just a smiling doofus who wants to party all the time; she's actually quite the enigma, as evidenced numerous times throughout the series. It's pretty clear that her friends don't entirely understand her, and it's not unreasonable to suggest that this misunderstanding goes in the other direction as well. She displays something of a difficulty in understanding others' intentions and emotional states, even to the point of misinterpreting them outright. And if moments like this aren't the ultimate proof that she's more than just a bit shaky on what is socially acceptable, then I don't know what is.

 

Whatever the reasons behind her behavior, it's a certainty that her mind works a bit differently than her friends', and I don't see why she should be labeled a "bitch" just because she made an overly sensitive and notoriously skittish pegasus cry. I know, I know, making Fluttershy cry is a CAPITAL SIN, but come on. Flutters obviously forgave her, so I see no reason for everyone else to keep harping on her for this.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

^This

 

In all seriousness though, well this might not be Pinkie's best portrayal, I still think people overracted to this scene. Because as you know, if you make Fluttershy cry, the character apparently must die (hey look a rhyme).

 

Seriously, people even went as far as sending death threats to Amy Keating Rogers for this scene. It's one thing to criticize, but it's another thing to go wanting to kill the writers for one not so good scene. 

 

Also, everyone acted like Pinkie's character was ruined because one of her flaws was shown, ignoring episodes like Maud Pie and Testing Testing 123 which came after it and the fact that Pinkie Pride happened 2 episodes before it.

[ShadowPirateX 600]

Why can I only Brohoof your post once? This is what I've been saying too! It's not that Pinkie was being a jerk, she didn't know she was hurting Fluttershy's feelings.

And in all honesty, Filli Vanilli made me like Pinkie more.

[mars 4,862]

^This

 

In all seriousness though, well this might not be Pinkie's best portrayal, I still think people overracted to this scene. Because as you know, if you make Fluttershy cry, the character apparently must die (hey look a rhyme).

No. I didn't hate this episode because Fwuttershy is soo pwecious. I hated this episode because Pinkie was out of character. I can understand her being a bit insensitive, but they literally antagonized Pinks in this episode. They made her a rude jerk who couldn't see that they were hurting their friend. It's one thing to annoy someone, or to say something a bit harsh to a friend, but she literally drove her friend to tears and continued to do so even after her other friends told her to stop.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

Really, I'd be irritated with this behavior regardless of whether she made Fluttershy cry or not. Hell, I don't even like it when people get all angry because something made Fluttershy cry because she's uber sensitive She's not immune to crying and it probably isn't a difficult thing to do, but regardless, that doesn't really excuse the characterization here, in my opinion.

 

I think Pinkie is different than her friends. I also think she may not have initially realized the harm she was doing, but she's not an idiot and would've been able to realize that she was taking it a bit too far - especially because her friends told her to stop that nonsense and she didn't. Even if she didn't realize it, she's not deaf and was told multiple times to quit.

 

If it were just for a little bit, it would've been excusable. But it wasn't - she kept pressing and pressing and pressing after making her friend cry and being asked to stop *multiple* times, I was honestly confused at it That wasn't anything like her, at least, from what I've seen.

 

Hell, just two episodes back in "Pinkie Pride" she felt really guilty and stopped the Goof-Off because it was making Rainbow Dash, her friend, a bit upset and she wasn't having a good time. RD wasn't even that hurt in Pinkie Pride, it was just stressing her out. Fluttershy was running away and breaking into tears and Pinkie kept going after she had made Fluttershy cry and after she had been told to stop by other ponies numerous times. It has nothing to do with the fact she made Fluttershy cry in of itself - it had to do with the fact she's been displayed to know when to stop these things and she kept on doing it anyway, and it's even worse because others *told* her to quit and she didn't, which made it seem delibarate to me - that's what bothered me about this. 

[WindShear 543]

I don't believe Pinkie was being out of character in Filli Vanilli, as she had shown to be oblivious to how other ponies are feeling in the past. That and I simply don't like the term "out of character"  

 

I also realize that Pinkie wasn't trying to be mean or hurt Fluttershy's feelings.

 

Regardless, she was still being downright unlikable in those scenes.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Not to mention, this isn't the first time Pinkie Pie acted like a jerk if what I found in my review for 'Griffon the Brush Off' can be used. Also, I was more upset at how she caused Big Mac to lose his voice then her behavior towards Fluttershy anyway.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Nuke87654